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View Full Version : Don't buy gold or silver!!



bmatt
09-03-2009, 05:04 AM
Please read:

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page33?oid=88452&sn=Detail

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/investment/article6521486.ece

http://www.runtogold.com/2009/04/illusions-evaporate-even-on-tax-day/

bmatt
09-03-2009, 05:07 AM
YouTube - Who Let China's Silver Bulls Out? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxSm4bycPJk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fvideosear ch%3Fhl%3Den%26source%3Dhp%26q%3Dchina%2520silver% 26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF%2D8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwv&feature=player_embedded)

Sgt. Mac
09-03-2009, 06:58 AM
I'd rather buy lead

bmatt
09-03-2009, 07:03 AM
I'd rather buy lead

Yes, of course buy lead first. :)

Keyser Söze
09-03-2009, 08:13 AM
I'd rather buy lead

cooper plated lead in brass :D to keep the options open, these are the most precious metals...

Mountain Ron
09-03-2009, 09:07 AM
I agree with all the above. Buy lead and brass receptacles for same. I haven't needed any silver bullets since Bella Lugosi and Lon Chaney died.

Faol
09-03-2009, 10:06 AM
I haven't needed any silver bullets since Bella Lugosi and Lon Chaney died.

LOL...there's a tell of age.

ArmoredSheepdog
09-03-2009, 11:56 AM
Before long you'll be buying your lead WITH gold.

The philosophers stone is really a cash register.

Sgt. Mac
09-03-2009, 12:03 PM
Before long you'll be buying your lead WITH gold.

The philosophers stone is really a cash register.

If you have enough lead you can get all the gold you want

bmatt
09-03-2009, 12:10 PM
I'd like to respectfully steer this thread back in its intended direction. :) Anyone else here follow the precious metals markets?

Sgt. Mac
09-03-2009, 01:05 PM
Sorry Bmatt, I dont have any experiance in such things, but you see "Buy Gold" tV comercials all the time now. There's alot of preppers and the like who say to hord gold or silver in the event of a SHTF scenrio due to paper money being usless

bmatt
09-03-2009, 01:16 PM
Sorry Bmatt, I dont have any experiance in such things, but you see "Buy Gold" tV comercials all the time now. There's alot of preppers and the like who say to hord gold or silver in the event of a SHTF scenrio due to paper money being usless

Companies and people are "buying your gold" because they know something is going to happen. :D There are even those types of commercials on the radio and TV all the time here in Finland, which is unheard of.

Tacticalgearhead
09-03-2009, 01:49 PM
My only concern is, what are you going to do with the gold once the SHTF? Let's say I have a farm with lots of cows, I've got water, and lots of veggies and you show up with some gold. Gold would be pretty useless to me because what am I going to do with gold? I can't feed it to my cows. It only has value if somebody else covets it. Now I can take my cow and pretty much barter stuff with its milk, meat, leather, etc. I can even use its dung for fire "wood." In fact, I much rather have cows than gold when the SHTF. IMHO.

Now if you have an industrial and economic base, gold might be worth something, but the odds are that will collapse along with the rest of society. That having been said, gold might be useful and worth having. All I know is that I can't afford it, and I'd rather have something I can understand the value of.

Mountain Ron
09-03-2009, 01:57 PM
I bought a few grand worth of gold right before Y2K and about 8 months later the bottom dropped out and I still hung on to the gold even though it was worth 50%less than the price I paid. About 10 months went by and the price dropped even lower. I am not rich enough to set on that kind of money so I had to bail out at a terrific loss. It kind of left a bad taste in my mouth as far as precious metals. I hear all this crap about "buy gold & silver for when the economy collapses!" Ok. Did anyone figure out how long it will be until everyone gets together and sets a value on gold and silver as far as barter? Example: I buy 50 rounds of 22's for 1 silver dollar from seller x and seller y tells me the same damn bullets are $2.50 silver. See what I mean. It will be a major big mess and I have doubts if it will work. I would rather spend my money on things I can cache for tomorrow. Also, I have read and heard "if the bad guys stop you and your family you might be able to buy your freedom with precious metals". What a bag o' shat! If the bad guys find out you have that stuff, they'll take it all and kill you. I still have a nice stash of silver. Just my 2 centavos.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 02:02 PM
My only concern is, what are you going to do with the gold once the SHTF? Let's say I have a farm with lots of cows, I've got water, and lots of veggies and you show up with some gold. Gold would be pretty useless to me because what am I going to do with gold? I can't feed it to my cows. It only has value if somebody else covets it. Now I can take my cow and pretty much barter stuff with its milk, meat, leather, etc. I can even use its dung for fire "wood." In fact, I much rather have cows than gold when the SHTF. IMHO.

Now if you have an industrial and economic base, gold might be worth something, but the odds are that will collapse along with the rest of society. That having been said, gold might be useful and worth having. All I know is that I can't afford it, and I'd rather have something I can understand the value of.

I have mostly silver, and I'm going to sell before SHTF and buy more things to prepare, though I am pretty well prepared already. If for some reason I can't sell beforehand, I'll keep it and either trade with it (gold and silver have been regarded as money for 5,000 years. Someone will ALWAYS want it) or pass it on to my children.

I agree with you with regard to bartering, farming etc., which is why my prep philosophy includes food, weapons, supplies, multiple rural BO locations, local farmer contacts etc. etc. etc. AND precious metals. Can't hurt, right?

With regard to bartering specifically: It's a good idea in theory, but the reason money was invented was because maybe your neighbor doesn't necessarily want your apples in exchange for his blacksmithing services today. If you have gold or silver, you and your neighbor and your entire community can use it to trade with each other right away. The metals represent a store of wealth.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 02:08 PM
I bought a few grand worth of gold right before Y2K and about 8 months later the bottom dropped out and I still hung on to the gold even though it was worth 50%less than the price I paid. About 10 months went by and the price dropped even lower..

How much did you pay for your gold? It almost hit $1,000 an ounce again today. Maybe you should have held on to it.

The difference this time is that the whole phony financial system is collapsing, which will make people move to what's real. In other words, there is a financial reason to have the gold, not necessarily a "computers are going to go crazy" doomsday scenario.

Message to everybody: Watch for another major downturn in the stock market from mid September to late October of this year. Get out while you can.

Tacticalgearhead
09-03-2009, 02:11 PM
You are absolutely correct bmatt, and I'm familiar how and why currency was invented. Most likely people would band together again and come up with their own system, until something more official could be established. You know somebody will always become the banker hahahaha

bmatt
09-03-2009, 02:23 PM
You are absolutely correct bmatt, and I'm familiar how and why currency was invented. Most likely people would band together again and come up with their own system, until something more official could be established. You know somebody will always become the banker hahahaha

Fook the banks. No need for them. People can and should hold their own money/metals and protect them themselves. If they are unable/unwilling to do so, they can hire a company to do it in a storage facility, but NOT a bank. It would be a guarded storage facility only.

Faol
09-03-2009, 02:36 PM
In a post apocolyptic world, barter is the key. No one can make sure of the quality of gold they will get (or silver), and how do you make change for a 1 oz gold coin/round/bar, if you can prove its value.

There is a bank president a couple of counties away, that I have hauled cows for. He has said for years that "those cows in the pasture are worth more than your money in any bank." I agree with him. Need cash quick and don't want the gov't to know...there are 5 sale barns within an hour's ride from here, that all have different sale days during the week. You need to cover another day, head another hour further and you can hit 10 more.

You can also go to the sale barn, make contacts and buy calves straight off the farm for a lower price, raise them and sell them.

I do keep up with prices by the way. There is a guy called the Money Changer, out of Tennessee, that will sell you gold and silver through FedEx. He also has a daily email that outlines what the markets did (stock & commodities), compares it in terms of gold-dollars, ratios, etc. I have been subscribing to him for years. I have never bought from him, but it never hurts to know the deal.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 02:43 PM
In a post apocolyptic world, barter is the key. No one can make sure of the quality of gold they will get (or silver), and how do you make change for a 1 oz gold coin/round/bar, if you can prove its value.

There is a bank president a couple of counties away, that I have hauled cows for. He has said for years that "those cows in the pasture are worth more than your money in any bank." I agree with him. Need cash quick and don't want the gov't to know...there are 5 sale barns within an hour's ride from here, that all have different sale days during the week. You need to cover another day, head another hour further and you can hit 10 more.

You can also go to the sale barn, make contacts and buy calves straight off the farm for a lower price, raise them and sell them.

I do keep up with prices by the way. There is a guy called the Money Changer, out of Tennessee, that will sell you gold and silver through FedEx. He also has a daily email that outlines what the markets did (stock & commodities), compares it in terms of gold-dollars, ratios, etc. I have been subscribing to him for years. I have never bought from him, but it never hurts to know the deal.

As I said, I hope to have gotten rid of my metals by the time anyway. Or most of them at least. So I would be engaged in bartering with what I have acquired, grown etc. and/or using the metals I have left. Basically, I'm trying to cover all the bases, which I think makes the most sense.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Just to clarify: My main focus is not hoarding metals for a Mad Max scenario (which could very well happen). I look at them as an investment to be sold when the mania phase kicks in and everyone and their brother rushes to buy (e.g. the Chinese, as in the article I posted). I'll then turn the cash I get into real things.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 03:02 PM
No one can make sure of the quality of gold they will get (or silver), and how do you make change for a 1 oz gold coin/round/bar, if you can prove its value.

Human beings have been working with gold and silver for a loooong time. There will always be people who know how to determine the authenticity of gold and silver, if necessary by melting it down and testing it. Someone with this knowledge could set up such a business and even mint their own certified coins. If they tried to cheat people and make fake coins, they wouldn't be around long. Just one example.

You make change for gold using silver, copper etc. Like in the old days.

abo4ster
09-03-2009, 07:52 PM
Here are my thoughts...

1. Only buy precious metals after you are stocked with food, ammo, etc.
2. If you are only going to buy a small amount (a couple thousand or less), buy junk silver (pre64 US coins). It is a recognized currency with a known weight and content and MAYBE used after initial barter of true needs subside. Unlike buying gold, silver coins are in smaller values. Good luck getting change for that package of seeds out of an American Eagle.
3. Gold is medium by which you can store money for when the SHTF is over. Only buy gold for the expectation of making it to the other side of an event, not for use during said event.

Also, FWIW, I like this guy as he has been calling it right for a while now on the economy and likes precious metals...

Track Record
YouTube - Peter Schiff was right (new) - 2002 to 2009 with exact dates. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdVP_sgCETo)

Video Blog on Gold/Silver Rally
YouTube - Gold & Silver rally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfaWzJe1j3c)

YouTube Channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/SchiffReport

Trekon86
09-03-2009, 08:03 PM
LOL...I almost started a thread about this.
There's a guy who is broadcasting a message of doom about the economy collapsing in the near future, on a couple of SW bands. I listened to him for about fifteen minutes, and then I realized he was trying to con people into buying precious metals. It was not so much a preparedness public service, he is just trying to get rich quick.

Makes me wonder just how much even a SW radio will be worth until after SHTF and people don't give a gnat's ass about buying *anything* other than food, seed, salt, gas, and ammo.

PMZ

bmatt
09-03-2009, 11:31 PM
3. Gold is medium by which you can store money for when the SHTF is over. Only buy gold for the expectation of making it to the other side of an event, not for use during said event.

Yes, this is one take on the situation. My philosophy is to have it and use it when I need it, whether that may be to sell it when the buying mania occurs sometime over the next few months to years, trade with it while S is HTF or for after SHTF. I will use it as a financial or survival tool as my situation warrants.

bmatt
09-03-2009, 11:37 PM
LOL...I almost started a thread about this.
There's a guy who is broadcasting a message of doom about the economy collapsing in the near future, on a couple of SW bands. I listened to him for about fifteen minutes, and then I realized he was trying to con people into buying precious metals. It was not so much a preparedness public service, he is just trying to get rich quick.

Makes me wonder just how much even a SW radio will be worth until after SHTF and people don't give a gnat's ass about buying *anything* other than food, seed, salt, gas, and ammo.

PMZ

Some folks have been foresighted and independent enough to see what is in front of us (heck, what's happening around us already). Some of them do make money off this information, in addition to disseminating some (the most important stuff) for free. I don't see anything wrong with that. They have worked hard to find out what they know and need to make a living, too. At least their business helps people who are willing to listen. Now, there may be moral/ethical issues regarding the way some of those people go about it (e.g. using fear instead of logic), but that's between them and their God.

Mountain Ron
09-03-2009, 11:41 PM
I like the idea of having about $1,000 face pre 64 dimes and quarters. It will be less hassle than trying to make change with halves and cartwheels. The stash weighs a little over 5 pounds which isn't all that much. As for gold, I learned my lesson thehard way and as others said "how ya gonna make change?"

Earendil82
09-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Interesting articles....I can't decide if gold is undervalued for overvalued at this time. It seems like we are going to have some wild inflation in the near future. I have been thinking that it is still a good time to buy if you want to. What do you think?

bmatt
09-03-2009, 11:44 PM
I like the idea of having about 1,000 face pre 64 dimes and quarters. It will be less hassle than trying to make change with halves and cartwheels. The stash weighs a little over 5 pounds which isn't all that much. As for gold, I learned my lesson thehard way and as others said "how ya gonna make change?"

How much did you pay for that gold per ounce when you bought it Ron?

You don't have to make change with gold. Just buy big items. ;) :D

bmatt
09-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Interesting articles....I can't decide if gold is undervalued for overvalued at this time. It seems like we are going to have some wild inflation in the near future. I have been thinking that it is still a good time to buy if you want to. What do you think?

It is hugely undervalued for many reasons. 1) The governments of the world have been printing money like crazy. 2) Several big banks are supressing the gold prices by short selling gold futures contracts for gold that doesn't/won't exist. Etc. Once the phony "paper gold" goes poof, people will know how much real gold and silver there are in the world, and prices will shoot up. We don't even need hyperinflation for it to happen.

Mountain Ron
09-03-2009, 11:55 PM
If I remember correctly the gold was $375 an ounce and within 8 months it dropped to $250 went up again and then down to $200. I was hurting for money, Y2K was close and I decided to get out with any semblance of saving my ass. When I bought the silver it was $5 an ounce.

Earendil82
09-03-2009, 11:58 PM
Ron, those were the days man! I wish I had stocked on metals then!

I am thinking that pre-1964 coins sounds like a good idea!

bmatt
09-04-2009, 12:06 AM
If I remember correctly the gold was $375 an ounce and within 8 months it dropped to $250 went up again and then down to $200. I was hurting for money, Y2K was close and I decided to get out with any semblance of saving my ass. When I bought the silver it was $5 an ounce.

I'm sorry to hear it Ron (absolutely no sarcasm intended). Gold and silver have been moving up since the early 2000's and are part way into their bull market phase. The last commodities bull market ended around 1980 (when gold and silver spiked last time). We are headed for this once again.

Many people will note that gold went down in price dramatically since it's high of over $1,000 last year (though now it is back up). If you look at a gold chart for the past few years, you will see that there is what is called and "inverted head-and-shoulders pattern", which looks like a small hill on either side of a mountain, upside down. This pattern is followed by lower highs being made, as well as higher lows. These two factors mean that it is statistically very likely (but of course not guaranteed) for gold and silver prices to go up dramatically over the next few months/years. Just one reason out of many to buy.

Ultimately, the metals will all move in the same direction, so it's not a life-or-death decision whether you buy gold or silver (or platinum, for that matter), as long as you're looking at it as an investment and not for trading when SHTF. For SHTF-type scenarios I'd have silver, post SHTF gold.

bmatt
09-04-2009, 12:10 AM
YouTube - Silver & Gold SHINE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvr3LUZE098&feature=channel_page)

Mountain Ron
09-04-2009, 12:27 PM
I deal with these folks. I trust them. http://bullion.nwtmint.com/?gclid=CIyf4OC82JwCFRZeagod7VmPmw

Trekon86
09-27-2009, 11:21 AM
BTW do any of you guys know what the silver content is like in old English silver crowns?

Thanks,
PMZ

GreyOne
09-27-2009, 01:39 PM
All this talk about precious metals reminds me of some Kipling:

"Gold is for the Mistress, Silver for the maid.
Copper for the Craftsman, cunning at his trade.
'Good' , said the Baron, setting in his hall,
'But Iron, Cold Iron, is master of them all!"

Trekon86
09-27-2009, 02:32 PM
All this talk about precious metals reminds me of some Kipling:

"Gold is for the Mistress, Silver for the maid.
Copper for the Craftsman, cunning at his trade.
'Good' , said the Baron, setting in his hall,
'But Iron, Cold Iron, is master of them all!"

Yup, I love that quote lol!
PMZ

GreyOne
09-27-2009, 05:08 PM
Strangely, all three of my kids had that one memorized in grade school, along with the one about"The Saxon is not like us Normans my son. His Manners are no so polite. But when he Saxon stands in his furrows, sullen set eyes on your own, and says "This isn't fair dealing"; my son, leave the Saxon alone!"

cochiserattlesnake
09-27-2009, 05:53 PM
I've enjoyed reading these quotes and concerns for the economy! as I left the USA for Asia in 2006, most americans I meet these days are very disgruntled with things back home, from you guys I get the same feeling.

Cochiserattlesnake

Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained

Rubarb
12-18-2009, 06:06 AM
BTW do any of you guys know what the silver content is like in old English silver crowns?

Thanks,
PMZ

Yes thanks:D

bmatt
12-18-2009, 06:50 AM
BTW, by no means am I saying I have tons of money here. Just trying to inform folks of the situation.

Ursinos
12-18-2009, 12:11 PM
My only concern is, what are you going to do with the gold once the SHTF? Let's say I have a farm with lots of cows, I've got water, and lots of veggies and you show up with some gold. Gold would be pretty useless to me because what am I going to do with gold? I can't feed it to my cows. It only has value if somebody else covets it. Now I can take my cow and pretty much barter stuff with its milk, meat, leather, etc. I can even use its dung for fire "wood." In fact, I much rather have cows than gold when the SHTF. IMHO.

Now if you have an industrial and economic base, gold might be worth something, but the odds are that will collapse along with the rest of society. That having been said, gold might be useful and worth having. All I know is that I can't afford it, and I'd rather have something I can understand the value of.

Exactly! Reading this, my first thought was that in a SHTF scenario, it's way more valuable to have a marketable skill, like hunting (so that you can trade the fur and meat if you don't need it yourself), making tools, farming, etc. If the monetary system completely collapses, its far more likely people will start using the barter system again. Gold and Silver will only be good for the initial scramble, where there will be thousands of people too greedy and shortsighted to realize how worthless money is!

Rat Eater
12-18-2009, 12:37 PM
A while back I sold my non working F250. I invested all $1200 of it in in HEIRLOOM SEEDS of the staple food type stuff. At the gun show last year I bought 2 cases of 7.62x39, I don't even own a gun in that caliber. I think gold and silver will only have real value for a very short time while people are still drunk on the the mindset of now. As soon as they sober up they will what something more tangible, precious metals will not be so precious then. 50 corn seeds will be worth more than there weight in gold and what would someone give for 20 rds of 7.62x39 or 100 rds of .22 when it's not on any shelf or out right totaly banned? I would would not even consider gold or silver for payment for anything I got! To do so, says I am expecting things to return to normal and the gold I would have recieved would then put me ahead. I believe if things ever do come apart it will take 50 maybe 100 years to see a STABLE Government! IMHO;)

WindWalker1970
12-18-2009, 01:12 PM
When the SHTF all I need for me and family is food, shelter and ammo. Like Rat above, I'd rather have the basics on hand than dollars, silver or gold. Buy food and gear that can be used daily rather than something that can and will most likely lose value (ie - gold) over time.

Also last time I checked I could not buy milk and eggs at Wal-Mart with an ounce of gold. ;)

bmatt
12-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Exactly! Reading this, my first thought was that in a SHTF scenario, it's way more valuable to have a marketable skill, like hunting (so that you can trade the fur and meat if you don't need it yourself), making tools, farming, etc. If the monetary system completely collapses, its far more likely people will start using the barter system again. Gold and Silver will only be good for the initial scramble, where there will be thousands of people too greedy and shortsighted to realize how worthless money is!

This was my response to TGH:

I have mostly silver, and I'm going to sell before SHTF and buy more things to prepare, though I am pretty well prepared already. If for some reason I can't sell beforehand, I'll keep it and either trade with it (gold and silver have been regarded as money for 5,000 years. Someone will ALWAYS want it) or pass it on to my children.

I agree with you with regard to bartering, farming etc., which is why my prep philosophy includes food, weapons, supplies, multiple rural BO locations, local farmer contacts etc. etc. etc. AND precious metals. Can't hurt, right?

With regard to bartering specifically: It's a good idea in theory, but the reason money was invented was because maybe your neighbor doesn't necessarily want your apples in exchange for his blacksmithing services today. If you have gold or silver, you and your neighbor and your entire community can use it to trade with each other right away. The metals represent a store of wealth.

bmatt
12-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Well, good luck guys. I believe in preparing in all the ways you mentioned, which is what I have done. The main thing I am saying is that gold and silver will increase dramatically in dollar value over the next few years, which will allow those who hold it to be better off in a bad situation than they would otherwise. Does that not make sense? Does it not make sense to cover all your bases?

Rubarb
12-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Interesting thread this, although im going to invest in poop, because an old english saying says

"Where's there's muck, there's brass"


Brass being slang for money

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

moose
12-18-2009, 08:35 PM
Im with you Kep, more shit the better.