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sbkittrell
01-14-2010, 07:27 PM
In my area of the country there is a controversy over deer hunting with dogs. I used to dog hunt back in the eighties, but never owned any. I haven't dog hunted in years and prefer to hunt from a stand or just sit on a bucket in a swamp. Most of the controversy comes from nonhunting and/or antihunting land owners who don't want the dogs running deer through their property, but there is, sadly, also a lot of bickering among hunters on this topic. I don't like the bickering. The only problem I have with dog hunters is with those that abandon dogs who didn't work out at the end of the season. You see it all the time down here, starving dogs, that probably kill a lot of wildlife just trying to stay alive. I found two last year in a nearby gameland that were so emaciated they looked like skeletons. When I found them I was scouting and it was in the spring, when no season for anything was open. In NC you can't even carry a firearm (except a rimfire handgun) during the times when no seasons are open (this applies only to NC gamelands, not private property). So I didn't have a gun to shoot them with. Anyway, it really ticks me off when people abandon dogs like that. If the dog is useless then they should just shoot it and not leave it to starve. I was wondering where you guys stand on this issue. Deer hunting for dogs is mostly a Southern thing, I think, but you can still have an opinion.

evbouret
01-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Chances are, those food deprived dogs you found were most likely lost. I grew up running dogs for pigs in Hawaii and it wasn't uncommon for the dogs to chase a pig too far to backtrack back and get horribly lost. We would usually find them 10 miles away a week later.

snakedoctor
01-14-2010, 07:33 PM
I dont have a problem with dog hunting first off!

Leaving a dog to starve really pisses me off! Shoot the dog or give him away! That is despicable and no excuse can ever justify that kind of crap!

Trekon86
01-14-2010, 07:36 PM
Hunting stags, boar, foxes and wolves with dogs is a time-honored pastime since early history. I have no problem with it.

Much of the "Fair Chase" doctrine so often cited by modern hunters was invented by quasi-hunter environmentalists during the first half of the 20th Century in response to the less noble sort of hunting...that of the trophy hunters.

I would have no qualms about using dogs to hunt deer, provided the meat would be of use to me and mine.
PMZ

Trekon86
01-14-2010, 07:37 PM
But yeah leaving a dog to starve cause you can't bring yourself to shoot him is the mark of a weak-minded tyro.

I don't like that either. You're not alone:)
PMZ

sbkittrell
01-14-2010, 07:47 PM
Chances are, those food deprived dogs you found were most likely lost. I grew up running dogs for pigs in Hawaii and it wasn't uncommon for the dogs to chase a pig too far to backtrack back and get horribly lost. We would usually find them 10 miles away a week later.

Dogs do get lost occasionally, but most dog hunters love a good dog and will look for days to recover a lost dog. A lot of them use tracking collars to prevent loss. No, most of these dogs are abandoned and it's obvious because the collars have been taken off of them. You see them at the end of deer season every year running up and down the highways.

GrouchyBear
01-14-2010, 07:55 PM
ever use a high pitch whistle so dogs can relocate you?

Old Philosopher
01-14-2010, 08:05 PM
Deer hunting for dogs is mostly a Southern thing, I think, but you can still have an opinion.

You're right about that. In Montana, you can't even hunt bear with dogs. The only dog hunting (other than birds) is for cougar.
Maybe it has something to do with Westerners' relationship with wolves, but hunting with dogs is just not "our thing". In fact, if you see someone's pet "running deer", you'd better shoot it on the spot.
As was said, everyone has an opinion. I just don't see the attraction to running a deer like a fox, instead of trying to out smart it, and out sneak it. :confused:

GreyOne
01-14-2010, 08:08 PM
In Texas, there is very little public land, so 98% of hunting is done on private land. That means dog hunters are running their packs across private land, and if they cross it themselves, while armed, that is criminal trespass. The state banned dog hunts some years back, at least for deer. It has far more to do with property rights than it does with being pro or anti hunting.
I have a small area- just about 130 acres- that is family land, and we hunt there. Poachers are not welcome, and I do not think a man running his dogs across our hunting area is anything but a poacher. He may not see it that way, but the law does, and most land owners do.

daveridesbikes
01-14-2010, 08:37 PM
my pap-pap hunts with dogs, hes got curs(bay) and am-stafs(catch) for hoggin', english pointers for quail, and some walkers and blue ticks for deer. i have been hunting with him all my life and i know he would never abandon a dog. when i was a teenager pap-pap shot bow(the alpha pointer) because bow was taking off after something in the palmettos we couldnt see, but from like 100 yds bird shot only immobilized the dog and he was good as new a couple weeks later, it was the first couple hours of a long weekend and we had to stop the hunt, pack up and get the dog to the vet. that is how far a real hunter will go to keep a good dog. what a coward to just abandon a dog.
sorry rant over.

sbkittrell
01-14-2010, 09:49 PM
I haven't dog hunted in years, but it's not as easy as it sounds. Most of the shots you get are snap shots. And it is exciting listening to them baying and getting closer. I agree with G1 it's really more about property rights than anything else, although a lot of antihunters get frothy at the mouth at the mention of dog hunting.

GrouchyBear
01-14-2010, 10:35 PM
They use dogs hunting boar, but for hunting deer never heard of it. If they're trained to hunt deer, will they go after livestock also? I've heard of dogs just nipping at the necks of cattle till they bled to death.

riley
01-14-2010, 10:59 PM
No thats like saying a dog trained to hunt boar will kill livestock. they can run some animals and broken of others.

sbkittrell
01-15-2010, 08:12 AM
I guess that I should have mentioned also that most of the dog hunting around here is done on land leased by hunting clubs. Which brings up another issue which probaby deserves another thread; hunting clubs, but which I'll just add to this one.

We have some public lands in NC, but not much at all and except for state game lands, they are in the form of the National Forests. We only have four National Forests; Pisgah and Nantahala which is in the western part of the state, Uwharrie which is in the western part of Central NC, and the Croatan which is in the East. We do have some state gamelands, and the National Forests are controlled by the same regs as state game lands.

Private hunting lands, at least in Eastern NC are mostly leased and controlled by hunting clubs. The hunting clubs lease farms and other lands from private owners. It's not impossible to join an established hunting club, but it's not easy either. Most of those clubs either hunt with dogs or hunt from stands, rarely both.

I usually hunt a couple of farms up in Bertie Co that a good friend of mine has permission to hunt on, or I hunt NC gamelands (which can get pretty crowded during deer season). I used to hunt our family farm, but even though it's outside the city limits in Greenville, it's right on the edge of town and there are apartment complexes almost all the way around the farm now, so I wouldn't hunt it with a firearm, only a bow. I haven't hunted our farm in years, but there's lots of deer there. Maybe I'll bowhunt it next season.

old man dave
01-15-2010, 08:44 AM
I too hunted with dogs but didnot own any.We would try to catch the strays if we could.

old man dave
01-15-2010, 08:46 AM
people who leave animals out to starve are heartless.

sbkittrell
01-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Dog hunting, whether it's for deer, rabbits, bear, racoons, or whatever is a whole different deal than hunting from a stand or stalking. Actually I've never stalked a deer. The terrain in Eastern NC is mostly thick undergrown, swamps, or fields. Actually I suppose you could stalk deer that were feeding in bean fields, but since mostly they come in the fields to feed just before dark and leave just before dawn it would make it really hard to do. I do have a buddy that has stalked them by moving in ditches bordering fields. Anyhow, dog hunting is as much about the dogs, listening to them baying, and figuring out where the deer is going, as much as anything. I have nothing against dog hunting at all actually, just the so called hunters that abandon their dogs I have a problem with. I can also understand hunters that get pissed when they are hunting from a stand and a pack of dogs ruins their hunt. I have had that happen to me, but it's all part of the game as far as I'm concerned and I did enjoy listening to the dogs running the deer. If I had dogs constantly running through my land and making it almost impossible for me to hunt my own property, that would be a different story though. So I can see both sides of the issue.

swampossum
01-15-2010, 10:49 AM
I also dog hunted for deer when younger, now preferring to hunt from a tree stand or the ground. Dog hunting is a time honored tradition here and I would hate to see it disappear. I do agree that is terribly wrong to abandon the dogs. Every year two or three will show up in our yard, wearing a collar with the owners name and phone number. These guys are always appreciative to get their animals back. The main problem here really is some clubs have small leases, 100 acres or less, and the dogs get of the property and run deer through neighboring lands, or across public roads.

Old Philosopher
01-15-2010, 01:53 PM
There's no room in my book for people actually abandoning animals, let alone shooting them because they "don't behave" according to expectation. :mad:
This is definitely a regional, cultural issue. I have an issue with running deer with dogs, on several levels, but that's because I wasn't raised with that as part of my heritage. If wing-shooting a running deer with 00-buckshot ahead of a pack of dogs is your thing, that's fine...for you.
To me, it's not a matter of "fair chase", it's a matter of respect. When I learned to shoot, my Grandfather taught me with a pump .22. When it was time for my first rabbit hunt, I grabbed the pump out of the gun case.
"What are you doing?", he asked.
"We're going hunting!", I exclaimed, excitedly.
"Gimme that!", he replied, putting it back in the cabinet and pulling out an old single-shot Savage .22
"What's this?", I asked
"You know how to hit a target. But here are the rules: you have one shot. If you miss, the rabbit wins.", was the answer.

I've spent years making sure I could get a standing head, or neck shot to insure a clean kill, and avoid wounding an animal. Not to mention wasting blood-shot meat. My sons do the same, for the same reason. It's just who we are....

sbkittrell
01-15-2010, 02:53 PM
There's no room in my book for people actually abandoning animals, let alone shooting them because they "don't behave" according to expectation. :mad:
This is definitely a regional, cultural issue. I have an issue with running deer with dogs, on several levels, but that's because I wasn't raised with that as part of my heritage. If wing-shooting a running deer with 00-buckshot ahead of a pack of dogs is your thing, that's fine...for you.
To me, it's not a matter of "fair chase", it's a matter of respect. When I learned to shoot, my Grandfather taught me with a pump .22. When it was time for my first rabbit hunt, I grabbed the pump out of the gun case.
"What are you doing?", he asked.
"We're going hunting!", I exclaimed, excitedly.
"Gimme that!", he replied, putting it back in the cabinet and pulling out an old single-shot Savage .22
"What's this?", I asked
"You know how to hit a target. But here are the rules: you have one shot. If you miss, the rabbit wins.", was the answer.

I've spent years making sure I could get a standing head, or neck shot to insure a clean kill, and avoid wounding an animal. Not to mention wasting blood-shot meat. My sons do the same, for the same reason. It's just who we are....

Yes it is a very different way of hunting. Rabbit hunting with beagles is popular here too and there are still a lot of people who hunt racoons with dogs. Like I said, I don't hunt with dogs anymore, but I used too. It's hard to explain really. It's like the dogs are a part of the hunt. Sort of like partners. They really love it too. Most dog hunters regard their animals as "working" animals, not pets. The treat the dogs really well, but there's no petting or playing around with a working dog. When one doesn't work out then they either have to continue to feed it and risk it's bad habits infecting other members of the pack, or they have to get rid of it. Since no other hunter wants a dog that won't work, and it's really hard to give away a deer hound, then the only other option is to destroy it. A quick shot to the head would be preferable to leaving it out to starve and destroy wildlife. I've never owned deer hounds even though I have dog hunted, but I have shot one of my own dogs before that was a pet. He got into something that blinded him and rather than take him to a vet I shot him myself. It wasn't easy, but he died at home and at peace.

Old Philosopher
01-15-2010, 03:01 PM
In Alaska, and obviously in your neck-o-the-woods, culling your own animals, or putting down a suffering one, is part of life. A friend here, a few years ago, had to put down a family pet that had terminal mange. He took me along to the woods to "hold his hand" sorta, because it's never easy. It was a lonely job. He told the kids it ran away. The could never have afforded $200 worth of vet bills, and there was a risk of contagion at home.
Just don't try it in Washington State, or California for that matter....

45jack
01-15-2010, 03:05 PM
The dog I presently own I adopted from the county pound before she was euthanized. She is a German Short-hair pointer who was left out in the boonies. I suspect because she is gun shy.

I have no use for people who abuse children, the elderly, or animals:mad:.
In that order.
Jack

Old Philosopher
01-15-2010, 03:10 PM
I have no use for people who abuse children, the elderly, or animals:mad:.
In that order.
Jack

Does my 17 year old calling me "old man" constitute abuse? :p

45jack
01-15-2010, 03:13 PM
Does my 17 year old calling me "old man" constitute abuse? :p
Only if it's not a term of endearment.;)

Old Philosopher
01-15-2010, 03:15 PM
Only if it's not a term of endearment.;)
It's not "my ol' man", it's "hey, old man!". Not his fault, though...he got it from his mother.. :mad: ;)

45jack
01-15-2010, 03:46 PM
If that's the only name he got from his mother count your blessings! :)

Old Philosopher
01-15-2010, 04:08 PM
If that's the only name he got from his mother count your blessings! :)
Well, I'VE been married for five hundred and ONE years, so you aren't telling me anything new. ;)

(See? I do read your posts. :) )

backwoods
01-20-2010, 01:21 PM
i am against it becase if i have a pck of dog chase all the deer off my property or barkin under my stand im going to flip second if you see a dog in the woods in pa its legal to kill it i wouldent do it personely but ide hate to be the owner and lastley some irisponsable jackas's are in the woods and would mistake the dogs for deer and heres a good example a girl scout leeder to a bullet to the head cause a hunter dident identify his target theirs my case

zorcon
01-20-2010, 02:02 PM
In wisconsin it is a un-writen law that if you see a dog running deer you put it down.

daveridesbikes
01-20-2010, 02:05 PM
In wisconsin it is a un-writen law that if you see a dog running deer you put it down.

wow things are different where i am from, people dont kill other peoples animals. if they did there would be hell to pay.

zorcon
01-20-2010, 02:51 PM
It is against the law up here to hunt with dogs the farmers worry about their dairy cattle if you want to hunt on their land you play their rules I have actualy seen a DNR warden put down a german sheperd for running deer. I don't agree withit but I can understand why, they feel if the dog gets a taste for the meat he will attack the cattle