.357 or .44?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Crazysanman, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I'm looking to buy one handgun for defense both in the woods and in my home. 90% of my woods trips are in black bear country. There are coyotes and feral dogs, but no grizzly or brown bear, no mountain lions (though a few are rumored in some of the areas I hike), no hogs.

    I want the gun to be a double action revolver, and I'm biased toward Ruger.

    Since it's going to be used in the woods, I naturally want it to be smaller and lighter, but for black bear it needs to develop a good velocity to penetrate deeply, so I'm looking at a 4" barrel (4 3/4" is a GO!). I'm in Maryland, so there is little to no chance of me getting a concealed carry permit. I'm not looking for EDC.

    Now, while I need that big, heavy, penetrating bullet for bear, I will be using the gun for home defense as well. The difficulty here is that my house is a single story, and bedrooms are dispersed all over the house, so almost any shot I take indoors will have a bedroom behind it.

    I can't decide between .357 and .44. The .357 is better for stopping humans and the .44 is better for black bear. I can't say which shooting situation I'm more likely to be in. I'm in Baltimore and my neigborhood seems to be going downhill fast. We now see the police helicopter over our neighborhood almost nightly, certainly several times a week. When I am outdoors I'm usually in VA and WV. I try to get into the woods every weekend, and probably make it two times (one overnight and one dayhike) a month. I would estimate I have a bear encounter 50% of the time, so I see a black bear once a month. I haven't really been threatened by any bears yet, but I've had a few that acted aggressively for a bit before I or they left.

    If I chose a .44 magnum and loaded .44 Special +P for home, would that round over-penetrate a human and put my family at risk?

    If I chose a .357 would 180gr FMJ or JSP ammo from a 4" barrel be enough penetration against a charging black bear?

    I know what most will say - get both! But I really only have room in my budget and in my wife's tolerance for one.
     
  2. Panzer

    Panzer Prepared Wanderer Supporter Bushclass I

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    I like 357 because you can shoot 38 through it as well. Makes for a cheaper training aid.
     
  3. red elm

    red elm Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I prefer the 357 but that is just me. If you load your own rounds you have a huge variety of bullets to choose from 110g-220g. The 180WFN are my favorite and there is no way I'd feel under guned with one. YMMV
     
  4. stalbot

    stalbot Tracker

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    I like both cartridges. The .357 will likely be your best all around choice. There are so many loads available in both .38 spec and .357. Buffalo Bore has a .357 load that would likely be good black bear medicine. As far as home defense, choose a frangible load and you'll really reduce the risk of over penetration.
     
  5. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I'd be shooting Mag Safes or Glasers from the .357 at home.
     
  6. Irishgrouch

    Irishgrouch Old School Eagle Scout Supporter

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    After having carried one professionally for many years, I say 357 all the way. +1 on what Panzer said, 38 or 357, two guns in one, GP 100 is nice.
     
  7. Makarov

    Makarov Scout

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    its six of one half a dozen of the other. in a small handgun a 44 magnum is not fun to shoot, but then again a 357 in a small gun isn't much fun to shoot either. I personally would buy the 44. load it with hard cast keith bullets at about 1000 fps for woods and buy a good 44 special frangible defense load for home.
     
  8. cobra

    cobra Scout

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    I would agree with most about the .357 being the choice. I'm a big fan of .44 but the danger of the bullet going straight through a person, and whatever is behind it, and hitting an innocent person would prevent me from using it as home defense.

    .357 can be equally dangerous in that respect, but you can shoot .38 out of them and they're more likely to not cause an exit wound. JMO, I'm not an expert.
     
  9. Rinaldo

    Rinaldo Tracker

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    They will both be plenty for a human. So long as it's a lead based round you will not pass through multiple walls if you hit the center of mass, or rather, the liklihood is diminished. The 44 has a huge amount of energy and the larger round will also create a larger impact point and mushroom so it should theoretically stop a bear better than a small bullet. However, there are thousands of studies that show that this isn't important or that it is not scientifically accurate. Regardless, you should go with what ammunition you regularly find around you. They both can stop a bear, and they'll both take a dear.
     
  10. XMP

    XMP Mountain Man

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    If you were ever going to venture west into grizzly country I'd recommend the .44, but if you are sure you'll stay in black bear territory the .357 is the way to go. You can shoot Buffalo Bore lead flat nose for bear, .357 hollow points or frangibles for personal and home defense, and still have the option of cheaper .38 special ammo for practice. In your particular situation that seems the sensible choice.
     
  11. Slips73

    Slips73 Guide

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    I'd take the 357, easier follow up shots if need be and easier to be accurate on that second shot. No need for a .44 unless your going into grizzly country.
     
  12. Niflreika

    Niflreika Guide

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    I prefer the .44.

    One of my favorite all time guns was a S&W M29 4".

    270-gr Gol Dot soft points would be what I load for big game.

    Personally, I carried 240-gr Hydra-Shoks for people defense. They are only 10 grains heavier and 200 fps faster (out of the 4" barrel) than a 230-gr .45ACP. These also work great on deer.

    The .44 also carries a better load in the CCI shotshell rounds, and put more than a few squirrel and snake over the fire.

    You can get .44 Spl load for defense.


    BUT, keep in mind, that ANY .357/.38 .44/.44Spl will penetrate walls on a miss, and that is by far your most likely scenario in defense, is a complete miss of the target. Any handgun round worth using to defend yourtself will penetrate interior walls of a typical home.

    If you are that worried, then I'd use a 20 gauge with Federal's PD256 4Buck load for a shell capable of getting the job done with the least chance of overpenetration. Then use the handgun you want for outdoors.
     
  13. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    It looks like the consensus is for the 357. That's where I was leaning but I didn't know how effective it would be against a black bear. I can get the shot placement as long as the round will penetrate deep enough. Now I'm off to look for a 4" GP-100 or SP-101 in my area.
     
  14. borego

    borego Scout

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    38 +P is perfect for home or CCW or EDC
     
  15. XMP

    XMP Mountain Man

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    Buffalo Bore makes a 180gr. lead flat nose that should take care of any black bear.
     
  16. gloomhound

    gloomhound Guide

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  17. WesternAngler

    WesternAngler Scout

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    Just get both :p that's what I did. I do live in grizzly country so I got the .44 first. I have a 4.2" Redhawk that I load with specials for home defense and Buffalo Bore 305 grainers for bear defense. I just got a 4.2" SP101 in .357 for the winter time when the bears are hopefully all asleep or for when I'm in areas that aren't grizzly country. I've got some 180 grain hardcast for that. Now I just need to decide if I want six rounds of .44 special or five of .357 mag for my home defense set up.
     
  18. PaulTX

    PaulTX Tracker

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    A few years ago I considered the same situation between the .357 and .44. I needed to trim my collection down some and had a 6.5" Blackhawk .357 and a 4-5/8" Ruger Bisley .44 mag. I decided to keep the .44 because it could do everything the .357 could do and more. I reload and use hard cast lead and JHP bullets (240-310 gr.) and can load these to a very wide range. Also, to me, the .44 was just more "interesting" with the heavy bullet range. I do miss the .357 but it is hard to have it all!

    I've thought about playing with .44 Russian loads but never have due to the need for another die set.
     
  19. Rider

    Rider Guide

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    If you want it in a small gun, 357 for all the reasons previously stated...even though all my favorite calibers begin with a, "point-four"....

    sent from my dumb phone.
     
  20. Grizzly

    Grizzly Scout

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    Lived for years in South Baltimore over off Charles Street, know exactly what you speak of with the Ghetto Bird. It is a shame, lots of neat parts to that old city.

    As far as the gun I would also go with the .357.
     
  21. kubota tim

    kubota tim Scout

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    Well here's my .02 cents, buy one. Whatever you find that fits your budget and local availability now. stay away from airweights if your gonna fire full-tilt rounds often. ( I had a airweight .44 mag and it was tough on the hands with heavy loads.) With the wide variety of ammo choices either would fit what you would be doing with it. I've owned many handguns of multiple varieties of calibers, either one of these will serve you well. If your not gonna handload the .38-.357 should be cheaper to shoot but in this day and age of the panic fueled market place all bets of that are off.

    It all boils down to this, the best gun is the one that you own. If you don't have one you can't use it.

    Bro Tim
     
  22. Sides

    Sides Guide

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    If the .44 is better for bear, how can it be inferior for a smaller human? I have shot deer with a .357, and had them run off and die. I have a .357, I had and sold a .44. If I was facing a charging bear, I wouldn't trust either to drop a bear, I would want a shotgun with slugs. Dropping an animal depends on shot placement. That is a low percentage shot on a charging animal, with a handgun. Black Bear will not be a big problem unless you get in between a sow and her cubs. Most black bears will run from the sound of the gunshot. You list nothing else to worry about.

    Go with the .357. With that your wife can shoot it. The .44 she won't want to shoot it, mine didn't. Both the .357 and .44 will pass through a person, so what is behind will always be an issue. With your preference for Ruger, go with the GP100.
     
  23. Meathunter

    Meathunter Scout

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    I personally like the 44 mag the best, and open carry my Ruger Super Blackhawk loaded up with 300 grain Hornady JHP. The Super Blackhawk gives me the ability to fire ANY handload I want and can theoretically obtain 30/30 ballistics out to 100 yards with the right combination of propellant and lead, or they can be pretty dumbed down should I so choose. I went with the 4 5/8" barrel and haven't had any recoil issues to speak of, with the weight being 2 lbs and 8 oz unloaded the recoil just tips up the front end a little and rolls real comfortablty in the hand. The same can not be said for a double action as they tend to kick straight back and in my expierence are much more jarring to the hand and body during recoil.

    My thoughts are if you want a single action then go with 44 mag, a double action then I strongly suggest the 357 mag.

    Whichever you decide Enjoy! Magnum loads are very satisfing to shoot.
     
  24. uutuku

    uutuku Tracker

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    Bear guns

    I have lived and hunted deer in both brown and black bear country since 1969. I have been involved in the killing of a number of bears over the years, both brown and black. Here are a few observations to consider.

    1. Bears. both kinds can take a hell of a lot of killing.

    2. when being charged you want an instant kill, the only way for that to happen is to pass the bullet through the brain, or sever the spinal cord between the front shoulders and the brain. Any other bullet placement will produce un-predictable results. Every bear I have shot, or seen shot through any other part of the body either ran off into the woods wounded, or had to be shot again, through the head.

    So it's not so much what caliber you use. it is two things, the power to penetrate deeply in a straight line, and precise bullet placement. A friend of mine shot a mature male black bear a few years ago with a .44 mag. He was shooting 300 gr hard cast bullets at top velosity. He shot the bear four times at about 20 yards. All four bullets passed clear through the bear, One broke a front leg, one passed lengthwise through the chest and out through the hind leg. At each shot the bear went down, but got right up and kept moving towards Fred. I finally killed it with a 45/70 350 gr round nose through the neck bone just behind the head. Both of the through the body shots would have eventually been fatal, but eventually don't cut it when someones life is at stake.

    Another friend was with two other people and were charged by a Brown bear. Two of the men were armed with .338 Magnums shooting 250gr Nosler partition bullets. They had to shoot the bear 8 times at about ten yards. Both guns were empty after the eighth shot,. Luckly both men had one in the chamber and the magizines fully loaded.

    My advice is to start with light loads and practice practice, practice, till you can hit a two inch circle every time at about ten feet. Practice on uneven footing in various postures and holds, one handed and two handed. Study bear anatomy until you can visulize the kill zones. The brain and the spinal cord are about the size of a large orange on a 8 inch broom stick. The skull is wedge shaped from front to back, and can deflect soft nosed bullets. A keith style hard cast bullet is best, It doesn't make a very large wound chanel, but penetrates deeply in a fairly straight line.

    In my humble opinon the best bear protection is a 12 gau pump shooting Federal Preimum slugs. Absolutly no buck shot, and no folding stock, pistol grip movie guns! Might work sometimes at really close range, but sometimes isn't good enough. I will probably catch some flack for that. but it's my opinion based on penetration tests and experience. A shot gun also works for home defense with bird shot.

    If you want to see what a large predator charge looks like go on you-tube and do a search for "lion charge"
     
  25. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I have a 12 gauge shotgun but I'm not going to carry that with me on 10 mile hikes in Virginia. My main concern with black bears is not realizing I spilled some of dinner on the top of my sock or forgot about that candy bar in my pants pocket and having a bear come into the tent at night. I always carry bear spray, but I'm not about to spray in the tent and a shotgun wouldn't be good in a collapsing tent either.

    As far as the .44 on people - stopping a charging bear and stopping a person require completely different ballistics. When you are stopping a bear you want a heavy, non-expanding fast moving round that will penetrate deeply to strike the central nervous system or to break structurally important bones so the bear cannot support itself. When you shoot a person you want maximum shock and trauma, you want to open up a big wound channel with expanding or fragmenting bullets that will stop inside the body. A .44 will mostly over-penetrate and exit the body. Not only does that reduce the energy the body absorbed (and therefore the damage done) but it then has the chance of striking one of my kids or my wife or someone else in the house. Tests like the Strasbourg test have shown that a .357 has more stopping power than any other tested caliber because the round delivers it's full energy load into the human body.
     
  26. pap11y

    pap11y Guide

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    I found the .44 a bit unwieldy and don't think I couldn't put rounds in the same place in quick succession. My group was much larger.

    The .357 would be my choice because you would be more likely to put the 6 rounds in the same place (assuming its a revolver)..
     
  27. Sides

    Sides Guide

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    That is not true. Stopping or killing is about shot placement. The last thing you want to do, is injure a bear. An injured bear is way more dangerous. I have taken deer with both .357 and .44. They both pass through the animal, leaving two holes to bleed from. The only real difference is the size of the hole left behind. I hunt with Hornady XTP bullets. XTP bullets stay together on impact, even on most bone strikes. They typically double in size on impacting flesh. The deer shot did not get knocked down, they ran off. The farthest a deer ran was about 75 yards, with either caliber. My .357 travels at 1265 fps the .44 was 1088 fps. The .357 is more likely to pass through. Do not believe Dirty Harry when he said the .44 will take your head clean off. That is hollywood B.S.. It doesn't matter which caliber you shoot, the physics are the same. The bullets act the same, one is just bigger than the other. The main thing is you want a bullet that retains it's weight on impact. The report you list doesn't even list the .44.

    A black bear will rarely charge you. They will most likely run away from you, or climb a tree. When you talk about a charging bear, you need to think about that. A bear charging, you would most likely be shooting at it's head. The thickest bone on a bear is it's skull. The bigger the bear, the thicker the skull. The top of the skull is slanted. The bullet could glance off. Your non expanding bullets leave a smaller hole, and do not transfer energy like a bullet that expands. If you read hunting regs. non expanding bullets are illegal for hunting in most states, because they are less lethal. They are required for military use, by the Geneva Convention.

    I have woken up with a bear's nose pressed against my tent, in the Boundary Waters at 4a.m.. It is scary to say the least. The best thing you can do is make a lot of noise. My wife and I started yelling, and the bear backed off. We got into our canoe, and watched the bear. He left when the sun came up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  28. bharner

    bharner Guide

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    Have you looked into a 10mm? Personally, I'm a sucker for .357 and .41 magnums but using them for home defense scares me. I do have JHPs for both but they're some darn powerful rounds.
    10mm gives close to the same performance as .357 but has a better selection of defensive ammo for home use.
    And the recoil out of the 10mm isn't bad at all. On par with a .357, possibly a little less. A buddy of mine has a glock in 10mm and inside of 50 yards it's every bit as accurate as my .357.

    Tapatalk ate my spelling and grammar.
     
  29. Bedford Ranger

    Bedford Ranger Tinder Gatherer

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    I know ammo availability is an issue across the board right now, but ive seen 38's at my local walmart just today, and in a worst case scenario, one would be more likely to find 38's or 357's on the shelves of the small hardware stores and mom and pop type places. cause theres tons of 38 revolvers out there and it was once very popular and very common not that long ago. food for thought for ya bud.
     
  30. Lucky44

    Lucky44 Tracker

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    I would vote .44 simply for the variety of uses. With a Ruger in .44 you could hunt larger game if need be, and knock down most things on 2 or 4 legs. Elmer Keith proved how versatile it really was. You have the advantage of shot shells with more BB's in them with a .44 and a gigantic range of bullet weights and styles. Also if you reload there are a lot of powders that make shooting very economical. I am biased as I love the 44 special. Ruger makes a very nice Redhawk if you like a lower weight revolver and a short barrel Super Redhawk also as well as some very strong single actions. They also pair nicely with their bolt action rifle or one of many lever actions and in that respect will make a better hunting rifle. Just my opinion, but that's the rout I went and I haven't regretted it.
     
  31. PeterCartwright

    PeterCartwright Guide

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    Given the parameters of your concern, I like the .357 as well. Black bears are usually pretty shy. Habituated bears (like the bears that have learned to free-load at camp grounds) are a whole other matter. I have a 4" stainless GP100. You probably know the GP stands for "general purpose". The name fits. Load it with stout heavy weights for deep penetration. Use the same gun with .38 Spl. wadcutters for plinking or small game. And there are some great .38 Spl. +P loads that work well for protection in the home. The only downside of the GP may be weight. I think my gun weighs 40 ozs. empty. With the right belt and holster, it's not so bad.

    PC
     
  32. briarbrow

    briarbrow Banned Member Banned

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    The Ruger GP that has been suggested a few times sure look and hold.nice(I've never owned or shot one)

    Considering all your criteria it doesn't sound like the 44 should be on your list

    If you hand load it still seems 357/38special combo would give you more needs specific grats than 44 mag/special combo

    Ultimately I hope and pray- the main things you will do is pack and play practice. Somewhat less than max is most often better for woods bums / best being smooth and effortless and unencumbered = not a big old fat super redhawk

    i say look at your shotgun you don't want to carry it 10 miles hiking but what about HD mods?

    Id rather shoot rubber buckshot at a chicken thief than 38 special at my babies bunk beds
     
  33. go2ndamend

    go2ndamend Scout

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    I own both calibers in several different configuations (SA, DA, Rifle). For what you have described, I would choose the .357 caliber. You won't regret a nice double action Ruger revolver. If you ever need to use it for personal defense, I believe you will much more likely to need it in your home than you are out in the woods. Your concerns about over penetration through interior walls are well founded. There are rounds designed for the specific purpose of self-defense when over penetration is a problem. The Glaser Safety Slug is made for home defense and is a possible option for you. You can also carry heavy hard cast bullets when in the woods for protection from bears etc. Neither the .44 or the .357 is a very good defensive round against bears, but either is certainly better than nothing at all. As others have mentioned, one benefit of the .357 is the ability to practice with .38 special rounds which are cheaper to shoot, have less recoil and are generally (at least they used to be) more readily availiable. Both calibers would work, but if I had to chose one, it would be the .357.
     
  34. pure_mahem

    pure_mahem Guide

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    I'm not saying you don't have a problem. But in my experience I've never needed a gun for a black bear. A good loud "Hey Bear!" is usually pretty efective even if they are hitting up the garbage can. But hey any bear can learn that your only going to make some noise and not do nothing. My suggestion is to make sure you practice safe food procedures. Use a Bear Bag away from camp and if you do have an encounter just back away slowly. I have to say the bears in my area apear to be privy to the knowledge that we hunt them every year and run like a bat out of hell if they see you. Not saying you couldn't startle a black bear or piss of a sow with cubs. But I haven't really seen to shoot a black bear on the east coast unless it was hunting season. I'm in no way discouraging you from buying a gun, just kind of saying. A gun is nice to have but if your new to them it shouldn't be your first choice. I worry more about the 2 legged camp intruders than I do the wildlife. And a coyote will usually just sneak up on you and scare you they will not usually go anywhere near a person. I know this sounds like two different thoughts but when they sneak up on you it's usually because your all camoed up sitting in a bush and they didn't see you or smell you. Wild dogs Now that's a good reason for a gun. but your natural wildlife I wouldn't worry. You have a better chance of winning the lotto or getting struck by lightning. JMO and experience of course. YMMV! Good luck with your gun purchase, and get some training if you've never owned one it will keep you and everyone safer and if anything else I guarantee you will learn something you didn't know before.
     
  35. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Well, after a LOT of thinking and pricing and fondling at the local gun shops I made a purchase. I bought a Springfield Armory XDs .45ACP. It's a tiny subcompact .45 that holds 5+1 rounds single-stacked.

    I know, I know, it's not a double action revolver. It's not bushcrafty. It's tacticool. But I think I made the right choice.

    Like I said, I'm most worried about a bear coming into the tent at night or some not-so-nice people at a shelter or campsite near a road.

    For a charging bear I always have bear spray with me and now I can back it up with 6 rounds of 230 grain .45.

    If a bear comes in a tent at night, in most of the scenarios I've read, the bear is looking for food and gets surprised when it finds humans and attacks out of that fear reflex. I'm banking on the muzzle flash and report of the .45 to scare it away. If not the bear will take six rounds of .45 in rapid succession.

    This gun is tiny, it's easy to pack, and with 5 rounds loaded weighs 21 ounces, about half of an empty 4" barrel GP100. It's easily carried in a pocket and could even be worn around the neck without discomfort. Like was said before, a .25 in your pocket is better than a .44 back in the truck.

    Some other features I like about it are stock fiber optic night sights that are very bright, and a picatinny rail under the barrel so I can mount a 500 lumen light to blind and startle anything approaching at night. The gun comes with two 5 round mags, a Kydex holster, and a Kydex magazine holster, all in a very nice case.

    With Magsafe Defender ammunition it has nearly identical stopping power to a .357 so it's a GO! for use defending the home from bad guys.

    Now I just have to wait for Maryland's stupid seven day waiting period law... However, I bought the piece at an indoor range and during those seven days I can shoot it at that range, I just have to leave it there when I'm done until its officially released to me.
     
  36. Jean

    Jean Guide

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    Make sure you shoot that thing at night a few times, the muzzle flash takes some getting used to.
     
  37. Shamgar

    Shamgar Tracker

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    Love me a .44. You can load it up or down. But in my opinion a very versatile round that can't be beat.
     
  38. VinWild

    VinWild Scout

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    I'm with the .44 mag fans on this one.
    The .357 was never intended as a wilderness cartridge and is best suited for personal and home defense IMHO. While I wouldn't feel exceptionally under-gunned carrying a .357; the .44 Mag is just that much more comforting - especially in AK.
    The .44 is a great round in the bush; and in the right firearm, can be used for hunting at distances out to about 125 yards.
    I have owned and carried both; each a Ruger offering; and now favor my Redhawk with a 4.2" barrel carried in a Diamond D Leather Guide Chest Holster - a superb package.
     
  39. Code Red

    Code Red Supporter Supporter

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    I am going to keep most of my opinions to myself here, because I've never shot at a bear, and don't spend a lot of time where they are considered a threat.

    I would say that shot placement is more important than caliber, so get whatever you think you will practice the most with so that you can hit when you need to.

    In either caliber, you are asking a pistol to do a job for which a 12 gauge is a marginal solution (charging bear).

    All that being said, I love shooting 44 spl.
     
  40. huntinguy

    huntinguy Scout

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    I have both.

    357 is snappy and not that unpleasant to shoot. Stopping power?

    44 is no more difficult to handle if you understand how to shoot it I can put more rounds through my 44 than my 357 in a session

    For home defense .. 44 special.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  41. Tripper Harrison

    Tripper Harrison Supporter Supporter

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    [video=youtube;uMbnmLLnsfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw[/video]
     
  42. huntinguy

    huntinguy Scout

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    Nice gun, a friend has one in .40. You will find it has quite a muzzle flip. Also, a dirty little secret about the XD, dry firing will break the firing pin retaining pin and take the gun out of action. My friend had to replace his and that is what Springfield told him.
     
  43. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I just ordered a box of Buffalo Bore 255 grain flat nose hard cast .45acp +P ammo. That will be my carry round when in bear country, loaded in the "extended" seven round magazine. I'll carry something like hydrashocks in the other mags for everything else. I also bout a package of six Glaser safety slugs for the magazine on the nightstand.

    I understand it may take 3-5 weeks to wait out Maryland's seven day waiting period because of the spike in gun sales recently. But I bought the .45 at an indoor range and I can go there and shoot it, I just have to leave it there when I'm done. I put 50 rounds of hardball ammo through it last night. It's a nice gun to shoot, with not nearly as much recoil as I anticipated from a tiny polymer frame .45.

    When you combine the size and weight of this gun, matched with the Buffalo Bore and Glaser ammo, I think I found the perfect compromise between firepower and portability. I'm more than satisfied with my purchase.
     
  44. XMP

    XMP Mountain Man

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    My Dad has an XDS, so I have shot it with regular 230gr. hardball. I'll bet that Buffalo Bore stuff will pack a wallop to both the shooter and the target!
     
  45. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I've read some blogs where people have used hot +P rounds. Springfield says the XDs will handle it just fine and people who shoot it haven't had any problems but they say its no fun to shoot and you don't want to shoot it except for the times when you really need it. The seven round mag adds an extra inch to the handle length so that should help tame it.
     
  46. XMP

    XMP Mountain Man

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    I have no doubt it will shoot it. I was thinking more along the lines of it not being much fun. Still the extra inch of grip should make a huge difference in leverage to handle the recoil:dblthumb:
     
  47. J

    J Bushwhacker Bushclass I

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    Hey, question... If ccw wasnt a concern to ya, why didnt ya get a bigger Springer? I think ya gave up alot goin that small for a field gun. I wouldve stuck with a .357 or .44.... Its a nice gun though, glad ya got what u were after.

    Here wouldve been my reccomendation for ya.

    [​IMG]

    S&W 686+ Talo. 3in bbl .357. Love this revolver. It shoots like a dream. Actually made me sell my SP101. I looked at the GP100 in 3in, but was really impressed with the trigger and fit/finish on this.
    Smith has left alot to be desired for me in the past decade, but they got this one right. Lock has been removed and plugged since this pic.

    Anyways, enjoy your tupperware. Those xds are nice.
     
  48. XMP

    XMP Mountain Man

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    That's a neat looking pistol with that lenght of barrel and the unfluted cylinder. I keep clinging to the hope they'll get rid of the keyhole, but I like the look of that S&W anyway:dblthumb:.
     
  49. J

    J Bushwhacker Bushclass I

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    Yeah, that cylander is what made me ask to see it. Then well, u know how it is.

    The lock was a spur with me, but I loved everything else about it so much that it wasnt a deal breaker. Esp, since it was pretty easy to remove the lock and plug the hole.
     
  50. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Great question. Concealed carry isn't a concern, but carry is. This will accompany me on overnight backpacking trips, where my kit is constantly getting smaller and lighter and I travel light and fast for long distances.

    I have six rounds if .45 with this gun in half the weight and a smaller size than anything in .357 or .44.

    I'm giving up some ballistics going with .45, but I'm banking in the sound and muzzle flash to scare a bear away from the tent at night, and if I do end up in a charge situation, this XDs has surprisingly little recoil and is quick to return to target, so I can get three or four aimed shots off with this in the time I could fire a .357 twice. I've already put 150 rounds through this gun so far and at 10 yards I have put 50 rounds into a grouping the size of my fist, totally removing the center of the target. It's fast and accurate to fire.
     

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