**avoid 3riversarchery.com**

Discussion in 'Reviews' started by Jonah L. Archer, Mar 6, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    I got an unfinished stave from them that broke due to a bad piece of wood. Here is the thread about the build...

    http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/85442-Project-Longbow-**FAIL!**

    Numerous respected members of this forum that are known bow makers confirmed this, as did TWO of 3 Rivers Archery's OWN employees. They said that they would send me a new one at no charge to me, and then out of the blue, they say that they won't. They will not stand behind their products even though their catalogs and website say "100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEED". They ADMITTED that the wood failed and still refuse to replace it.

    I urge all of you to seriously consider never buying anything from them... Any company that won't stand behind their products does not deserve your hard earned money! They will never get my business again!

    If any one wants to see them, I'd be more than happy to post the series of emails where they say that they will send me a new stave and then do an about face...
     
  2. Sterling Woodsman

    Sterling Woodsman Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Alpine, Alabama
    That's why I always prefer to talk to people on the phone because you can call them out if they feed you BS. And sometimes they are more willing to help you just because talking is more personal so they feel more guilt because they know what they are doing is wrong.

    I would try calling them. Be nice at first but if they still won't help you then blow up on them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  3. strong tower

    strong tower Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    That is exactly why I like e-mailing, so if they say they will replace it, like they did for you, I have it in writing lol.:21: Sorry about your stave man, hope it works out for you.:51:
     
  4. Mtnfolk Mike

    Mtnfolk Mike Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    7,230
    Likes Received:
    531
    Location:
    Santa Cruz mtns. Ca.
    wow.. that is a bummer.. after all these years, i have never had a problem with 3rivers at all , though i have never ordered any staves from them either.. hopefully something is resolved out of this.. good luck..
     
  5. Itegorm

    Itegorm Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Boyne Falls, MI
    That's not good at all. I have always had really good luck with Three Rivers. Sorry to hear about the poor service from them. When a company goes back on thier word it really hurts them in the long run. Looks like I will be finding other vendors to buy from.
     
  6. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    29,192
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    The outlaw state
    That sucks that they said one thing and now aren't gonna do it. But I have a question.

    How is it the seller's fault if the wood had internal problems? They didn't make it I'm assuming? In other words it's nothing that could be blamed on something they did or didn't do?

    Not trying to be a jerk about it, Jonah. Just trying to understand how they are to blame.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  7. blackhawkhunter

    blackhawkhunter Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    3,231
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    Vermont
    If something is defective its the retailer that should make things good with the customer. They can then either take the loss or go back to the manufacturer.

    Its just part of customer satisfaction and staying in businesses.
     
  8. kbamhi

    kbamhi Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2011
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canton, GA
    I am not sure I understan Iz's logic. Retailers rarely make any of all of the products they sell, but if you buy from them you would expect them to stand behind the product. They may not have caused the failure, but it is in fact them who is selling the inferior product. Often it is then their responsibility to return the defective product back to the manufacturer.
     
  9. xRangerx

    xRangerx Woods wandering bird nerd Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6,027
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Location:
    PNW
    The way I saw it Iz was getting to the point that wood is wood, there will be flaws in it occasionally. The seller didnt know that there was a flaw internally. That being said, was it their responsibility to replace it? If they said they would then my answer would be yes, it is their responsibility.
     
  10. sledjockey

    sledjockey Skookum's Bro Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    1,871
    Likes Received:
    199
    Location:
    Western Washington
    If you are looking for a good trad place with which to do business, you might look at Raptor Archery in Hood River, OR. I have dealt with him numerous times and not only did he do a great job on the bow he restored for me, but I have several dozen of his arrows, seen several bows he has made, and actually followed up with me via email to see if I got my deer this year after only having been to his shop a couple times to get gear. He is a really nice guy and usually has several people just hanging out in his shop just shooting the breeze. Great stories and the shop is like an museum.

    Sorry to hear about the 3Rivers thing and how you are out. I had heard things like this before about them, so this isn't the first bad report that hit my ears.

    Good luck.
     
  11. SnakeRiverJim

    SnakeRiverJim Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southcentral Idaho
    You should definitely file a complaint with the BBB in whatever community they operate in and I would include a copy of the emails where they said they would replace the stave. I would forward a copy of this to the company themselves voicing your dissatisfaction. It is a well known marketing fact that for 1 disgruntled customer a business will normally lose at least 10 other customers that individual influences.
     
  12. Sides

    Sides Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Illinois

    Johan, I have been dealing with 3 rivers for a long time. I'm sorry to see you have had problems. I do not agree with putting a bold statement on the internet, telling others not to use this or any other vendor. Yes that is a $185 stave. But you have never tillered a bow before, have you? It is not all that easy. You also could have caused it. How or why the wood failed doesn't matter at this point. You are right, their website says 100% guarantee, but you need to read the warranty as well. Your beef should be with the manufacturer.

    After you have read all that you need to dig into the product description as well. You will find their out. It is your responsibility to send it back if it is defective, BEFORE you lay the first tool to the wood.

    I'm sorry to say that if you have a beef, it is not with Three Rivers. It would be with the manufacturer. The merchandise was not in "unused condition". You would be much better going into the woods, and cutting your own stave.
     
  13. Woods Walker

    Woods Walker Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    8,434
    Likes Received:
    1,984
    Location:
    Konnecticut
    But the OP said this:

    They said that they would send me a new one at no charge to me, and then out of the blue, they say that they won't.

    If true the OP does have a beef with Three Rivers IMO.
     
  14. Sides

    Sides Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Illinois
    I have been in their store, They do have some kids working there. My guess is a kid said the wrong thing, than the owner stated the policy. I don't think he has a beef. Written policy will always win over spoken word. Some times people hear what they want to hear. I don't know if this is the case or not. I found the written policy with very little effort. The OP pointed out the 100% Guarantee, but neglected to read what is very clear. He saw what he wanted. You can not expect a retailer to take back something that the customer has modified. Would you return a pair of shoes that are well worn?
     
  15. VirginiaBushman

    VirginiaBushman Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is a bummer, I've ordered from them before and I never had a problem with them.
     
  16. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    14,052
    Likes Received:
    2,180
    Location:
    Vatican City
    last Flemish bow string i bought from them 1 year ago, was so poorly finished at the loops that i never used it ...when i wrote a fair product review of the string...and gave it 2 stars out of 5...my review never made it on the review page...what else can i say...I shop 3bay:57:
     
  17. postman

    postman Scout Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Hi Iz, sorry but as a bow maker and small business owner I have to disagree with you. I've made and sold many bows over the years and unfortunately some have broken. Sometimes there is a flaw in the wood that is not aparent when making the bow, and the bow breaks. It is not my fault nor is it the fault of the customer. But in all cases I have replaced the bow with one of equal or better quality. My name and integrity are more important to me than the price of a peice of wood and the labour required to turn it into a bow. Lets be honest, we're taking a peice of wood and forcing it to do something the Good Lord never intended it to do, and if we are going to sell such a product to people then we have to take responsibility for the quality of our product. I'm quite certain that if one of your knives broke due to an unforseen defect in the steel, you would replace it as well. I'm not talking about the abuse of a product, that's a completely different kettle of fish. The fact that they didn't make it and are just the middle man has no bearing on it, they should give Jonah a new bow and then try to recoup their losses from the maker.
     
  18. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    14,052
    Likes Received:
    2,180
    Location:
    Vatican City
    pics of the failed stave? couse i'm curious now ...i work with wood from oaks -brazilian cherry-maples-walnuts-pine etc...not bows but i feel wood
     
  19. SnakeRiverJim

    SnakeRiverJim Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southcentral Idaho
    My expectation is that if you have an employee representing you, then you better make sure they are totally aware of what the policy is. I have owned my own business for many years and stand by what my employees say. Otherwise, it makes me look like a fool in not providing the proper training and instruction to them and to what my policies are. Sorry, but this written guarantee is a scapegoat and in my opinion is no guarantee at all, but a means to make it look as if I will stand by my product, or as a representative of the product I'm selling.
     
  20. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    No, Iz, 3 rivers did not make the bow, but they did put their name on it and sell it. In my opinion, if you are going to sell something, you should stand behind that product when things go bad. YMMV

    If you read the build thread that I posted in the OP, it says that the limb that broke had not been touched yet. I had only been using a cabinet scraper on the lower limb so far, and the upper limb is the one that broke...

    The first employee that I talked to and said that I should get a replacement stave because of material defect worked in the technical questions department, and the second employee that said he would send me a new stave worked in customer service. These were not summer hires working the front counter.

    We are not talking about a well worn pair of shoes. If the sole fell off of a shoe the first time you put it on, that would be a more accurate description, and YES, I would return that...


    The pics are in the link posted in the first post, KS...
     
  21. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    14,052
    Likes Received:
    2,180
    Location:
    Vatican City
    Yep,, bad piece of wood not your fault on that brake ..it probably had-some fine cracks that got missed by the maker...everybody makes mistakes
     
  22. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    Another thing that I didn't mention in the OP, was that the manufacturer of the bow did not think that the stave broke due to tillering. They said that, based on the pictures, that it looked like the stave might have been damaged by something falling on the stave or was stored inappropriately. I stored the stave in the original plastic sleeve that it came in (per instructions), inside my house, hanging on my bow rack on the wall (no extreme temps or heating vents blowing on it.) and nothing ever fell on it while in my possession. The cardboard box it arrived in was not damaged, so that rules out UPS... If I'm doing the math correctly, that leaves the warehouse or the manufacturer. Even the manufacturer does not believe it is something I did during tillering, but neither the retailer or the manufacturer is willing to stand behind their products...
     
  23. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    Yes... everybody makes mistakes. All I'm asking is that they own up to those mistakes and make it right...
     
  24. x39

    x39 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,290
    Likes Received:
    914
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    I own a metal working business. Most of my suppliers stipulate that they will replace any defective materials, but will not be held liable for any costs incurred beyond that. In other words, if you spend three days working on a piece of steel and discover a defect, you're out your labor. Seems like a pretty good CYA policy, maybe 3rivers should put it to use. Were I the owner, I'd honor the promise my employee made, then counsel him rather sternly.
     
  25. Gav

    Gav Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    El Paso, TX.
    I'm very surprised that they didn't take care of you. I have dealt with them for years, even before Dale purchased 3Rivers. Never had a complaint. Send "Dale Karch" an email and explain the situation. It can't hurt.
     
  26. Sides

    Sides Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,565
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Illinois
    I do believe your beef is with the manufacturer. You didn't mention that you spoke to them. If they say it wasn't your tillering, they should replace it.


    To the store it shouldn't matter, which limb broke. You worked on the bow, removing material. That voided the warranty.
     
  27. sherlockian100

    sherlockian100 Scout Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2012
    Messages:
    887
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Southern California
    Sorry to hear that. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  28. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    I haven't spoken to them. I don't even know who "them" is. 3 rivers spoke to the manufacturer, and sent me the excerpt from their emails. If I do find out who the manufacturer is, I will refuse to buy from them as well...
     
  29. Adam B

    Adam B Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,383
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    I'm interested in learning from this.

    I don't know from those pictures how numerous folks can look at those pics and say "yep, bad limb".

    Can you give us detailed pictures of the broken limb end fibers? And can someone explain how it's clearly a bad limb?
     
  30. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    29,192
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    The outlaw state
    I think it does have bearing on it. I'm a small business owner too and like you I've always replaced the product if it fails, one I've worked on.

    But as a customer I think I should be called to the same standards of integrity as I hold the manufacturer/supplier. This is just me personally but if I bought something like that I'd consider it not to be the seller's fault. It's a piece of wood. lol.

    But that's the problem with the "integrity" word, it gets thrown around a lot but there are too many definitions of what it actually is. What I think is a lack of integrity someone else may not and vice versa. Usually what people mean when they say someone or some company showed a lack of integrity is that they weren't given what they thought they deserved. Sometimes that is a true lack of integrity and sometimes it's just us as customers wanting to be pampered or wanting something for less than what we should give. Or even having buyer's remorse. I've been on both sides of the coin as I'm sure many other small business people have.

    Yeah, if I was the archery place I'd personally replace it. But I don't think that they should be avoided because they happened to not replace it in this instance.

    Nothing against Jonah at all. I understand where he's coming from I just happen to disagree.

    If this company had failed to deliver anything at all or had sent the wrong product and refused to make it right then I'd say the "avoid this company thread" might be warranted.

    Again, just my opinion on "integrity".
     
  31. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    29,192
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    The outlaw state
    Here's a good example of what I'm trying to say.

    If a customer wants a maple burl handle on their knife, I order it from my supplier, I cut it in half and there is a huge void inside. It happens sometimes. It's Unusable at that point.
    I don't send it back to my supplier saying I want another block. Why should another small business owner like them have to eat the cost just because I don't want too. It wasn't my fault, it wasn't their fault. So I eat the cost. (Or if the customer bought it and sent it to me they decide what to do. They sure don't hold me responsible because I was the one who found it. Some might though.)

    The supplier would probably refund my money or send me another one but I'd bet it wouldn't be because they felt they should for integrity's sake. I'd bet it would be so they could avoid something like this. The court of an uniformed public opinion. The public doesn't put themselves in the shoes of the supplier, they only see what they feel they were jipped on. It's human nature. I used to do it as a customer sometimes myself, until I got on the other side of the fence.


    Wood is a natural material, it's common sense to know that it may have unseen voids or cracks or internal problems. You should know that before you buy it and if you're willing to take a gamble on it then go for it. If you don't like the idea of possibly loosing your money then don't.

    If you went out in the woods to harvest the wood, spent a bunch on gas money and time away from work and you got it home and it broke...what then? Who owes you a replacement then?

    That's the best example I can think of of where I'm coming from on this particular instance.
    Like I say, nothing personal against Jonah. Not at all, I'm just trying to present a point of view that I don't think a lot of customers think about. In this instance I could be wrong and wrong can be because I don't have all the info.
     
  32. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    39,617
    Likes Received:
    1,494
    Location:
    Texas
    Whether or not they should be avoided for not replacing the stave, I will not argue. However, if they _said_ they would- twice- as represented- and then
    refused to honor what they had said, THAT is enough reason for me to avoid them. It is a question of their "integrity" as a company.

    Yes, those statements may have been made by employees, and they may have been over ruled by the owner. If they were wrong to make the replacement offer, then that is his problem. He still had them representing his company, so it is HIS company that now seems to be untrustworthy.

    I ran small businesses for a number of years, and there were some real customer relation nightmares. I was not the owner, just the "manager" , but I NEVER had a promise I made reversed. Might have gotten my tail singed for it in private, but it was honored. That was just how it was.

    There were some customers demands that were so unreasonable I refused , even knowing they would be angry and bad mouth us- we just took our lumps, and kept on doing what we thought was right. Mostly, it worked out.

    So, if 3Rivers employees statements and or promises are not valid, why would I want to buy from them or believe anything they say ?

    Sorry, the owner dropped the ball on this one, and it hit his foot, hard !

    JMHO/ YMMV
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  33. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    29,192
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    The outlaw state
    I can agree with that G1. If they said they would and then didn't give a reason for not doing it later then that's bad form.
     
  34. Scott357

    Scott357 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have ordered from 3 Rivers several times and was always satisfied, but then again I never had anything defective where I would have to return it either. I would think 3 Rivers would just replace the stave and write it off in order to protect their reputation rather than tell you they will replace and then go back on their word. Keep us posted on what happens. I may think twice about ordering from them again.
     
  35. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    G1... Thank you for putting into words, the frustration that I am not making very clear. I'm not upset that the stave failed. In the original thread that I posted about this, I asked for help from members of this forum to point out to me what I did wrong basically. I thought I had failed. Even when I called 3 rivers the first time, it was to find out where I went wrong. After describing in detail what had been done to the stave, the person (who was a "technical expert", and there to answer these kinds of questions) told me that it was not my fault and that I should get a new stave at their cost. This was later confirmed by a customer service rep that reviewed the story and looked at the pics. Some time after that, the decision was made to not send me a new one based on the fact that the manufacturer would not "cover it".....

    It's the fact that they said one thing, but are now changing their tune that has me upset. I'm sorry if I have not communicated my point. I feel that they should stand behind their products AND their word.....And if they don't, I will recommend that people avoid them...
     
  36. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    And I'm not taking any offense, Iz... I can see your side of it as well...
     
  37. Panzer

    Panzer Prepared Wanderer Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,312
    Likes Received:
    446
    Location:
    Mordor
    If you did nothing wrong and the product failed then of course you deserve you money back. It doesn't matter if it's wood or not. If the new wood chair cracks after one use it's not my fault. I take the chair back and get my money or a new one. The company has to stand behind the products they sell regardless of what it's made from. Period
     
  38. avenger

    avenger Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    1
    So does this apply to all natural material? Should we just apply caveat emptor in these situations?

    Say I contract with a company to provide me with a wool garment (shirt, anorak, beanie or the like) that is pre-packaged and ready to ship in individual boxes. You buy one from me and I ship it out. When you get the item, you open it to find it riddled with holes. Eaten up by moths.

    How happy would you be if I told you that wool is a natural material, subject to naturally occurring pests and that you took a gamble by ordering from me and that there would be no replacement or refund?

    While the employees may have been wrong in the mind of the owner in this instance in that they shouldn't have offered up the replacement, the owner was actually wrong in that he hadn't spent the necessary time or such to train his employees correctly. It's not the employees fault. It is that of the owner for not making sure that they knew the company policy.
     
  39. Trail Dust

    Trail Dust Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Cascade Mountains
    Even without knowing all the specifics; if this is what they said they would do, they should do it! Period!

    I had done business with 3Rivers since their beginning. Later, we would purchase a few bulk items at wholesale pricing from them for my own part-time shop. Never had a problem with them but they have a new crowd running things these days. Unfortunately, business and personal ethics seem to have changed for some folks over the years much to the dismay of many of us who remember better days.

    Over the years (decades now), I have constructed many hundreds of primitive backed, self, fiberglass bows and like to think that I know more than a little about the process and the business. Too, I have cut and sold thousands of staves (and raw arrow shafting woods) to my own students and other bowyers. I would trade most of my premium Oregon yew wood staves for other woods that are not available in my area (e.g. osage, hickory, exotics for risers, etc.). Occasionally, either my staves or theirs would fail while the stave was being tillered and made into a bow for no obvious reasons. Sometimes the reasons were obvious and I would either refund or supply a new stave to the purchaser IF I could inspect the stave in person to ensure that their construction methods were sound. Often a maker "fails the stave" from the get-go by not laying out the bow pattern correctly on the face of the stave. So many variables are possible for either success, or failure.

    Myself, if I was new to the bowyer's craft, I would look to a highly skilled bowyer for a good source of staves. Some bowyer's are not going to sell you their best staves, others will help you find a premium stave fit for a beginner. The new students in my classes are not going to be using osage or yew until they are successful at building a vanilla white wood version with virtually no character to work around. This generally saves them a heap of heartache over the expense of the more costly staves. I haven't done business with 3Rivers in some time, but for me personally, I wouldn't go there for my stave needs unless I had no choice in the matter.

    I think it was John Strunk (one of the authors of The Traditional Bowyer's Bible) that strongly suggested to me about 25 years ago that, I should consider harvesting and working with woods native to my area around my home. Well, the advice made sense and before long I had dozens of *free* vine maple (grows like a weed around here) staves and bows that had shooting characteristics that matched some of my best yew and osage bows (when designed properly). So, rather than making an expensive stave purchase, I highly suggest cutting your own! It doubles the satisfaction and gets the middle guy out of the picture.

    The "practice" (for you lawyers) in the stave business has been to refund the full cost of the defective stave to the purchaser or, replace that stave with one of equal value. Poor or inexperienced construction methods causing a stave failure are another issue.

    Hopefully 3Rivers will make it right with you...

    *Before anyone asks; I no longer sell or trade staves.
     
  40. captainamer

    captainamer Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    KC MO
    Please file a BBB complaint and include the emails.
    If they still do not do what they promised then just advise everyone you ever see or know about them.

    I had a rifle blow up on my and injured me from a very large company. I also was shooting there ammunition through it. All communication was made on the phone. They said once we have the rifle back and new one for free would be sent to the gunshop who sent it back and seen me dripping blood as i wrote statement.
    They got the rifle back admitted manufacturing defect then said free gun ment they wont recharge for the new gun but not refunding for first one. Gun shop was awesome they refunded my money and fought with company when they fixed original gun and sent it back to be sold as new even though was used.

    I raised so much hell online the rifle company sued me in federal court. I contacted NRA their attorneys told me if i had purchased from any other company it would never of came to this... They got lawsuit to be dropped. I do not buy from them anymore. And to keep this from upsetting people i no longer post their name online.

    Be thankful u have emails and pictures!
     
  41. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    29,192
    Likes Received:
    552
    Location:
    The outlaw state
    Call me crazy but I don't think that's a good comparison.
    Yeah, in that case I'd probably say something. Seeing as how they could SEE the damage before the packaged it. If they didn't look at it before they sent it then I'd say that's pretty crappy quality control. Because you can SEE the damage.
    Can you see internal voids in wood? I can't. And I don't know anybody that can. To expect someone to be able to is asking way too much in my opinion.

    As far as Panzer's point about the chair I can see that. But as far as I can tell this was an unfinished wood piece. Almost raw material. A chair is a completed item that should go through some kind of strength test after manufacture. If it breaks on you the first time you use it then yeah, I think you'd have a beef. (I'd still probably just fix it myself)

    But Jonah said he's upset with them going back on their word so I can understand that. I won't say anything more, I was just trying to see the reasoning in being upset about an internal failure. I don't understand it. It looks like everybody else does. lol. And that's ok.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  42. wilderness

    wilderness Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    2
    They've always been good to me.
    That's where I buy all of my TRAD equipment and will continue to do so!
     
  43. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    I have had a new series of emails with the vice president of sales and marketing for 3 Rivers, and now they are saying that upon further review of the pictures (the same pictures that they have already looked at and said that it was material defect), that the failure was due to how I tillered it... Even though the manufacturer doesn't think so... That's convenient!
     
  44. spyder1958

    spyder1958 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    florida/ E. Tenn.
    Well Jonah, i for one have followed your build on this bow and posted in your orig. post and they are wrong in treating you this way.
    I think some post here, are not fully aware of the proovin condition the bow stave should have been tested at, before it was sold. It was pre tillered and needed only minor wood be scraped to get to a lower weight.
    I for one, have call and talked to their personnel on two occasions and both times I was so flurstated and can not for the life of me understand how they are staying biz. For a company that is this well know and suppose to have a large customer base and not honor their product is wrong I don't care how many examples you give to explain another thought process.
    Even before Jonah had his problem with 3 rivers, I'd made up my mind, I would do my purchasing else where. I will also be telling all my contacts to not trust them. The staff I spoke to was the most unprofessonal person i think I have ever delt with, when trying to spend my hard earned money. I will also be sending them my opinon of their biz by email and will speak to them if they wish.
    Folks there lots of small biz oweners out there that will treat you like family, spend the time to find them and P*** on these guys who don't care.
    Now you have my two cents. Over and out.
     
  45. brian

    brian Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    0
    5 pages (43 comments) about this Company and their Customer Service. I wonder how many potential Customers read this thread. Whether they are right or wrong, they made a PR mistake in my opinion.
     
  46. SnakeRiverJim

    SnakeRiverJim Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    728
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southcentral Idaho
    It might not hurt to capsulize all of this and send it off to the owner or vp and see what a foolish mistake they have made by taking this stand. It is going to cost them a whole bunch more than the cost of this item. Not just from one time purchasers, but from those that would probably have become long time customers. I guess they have a large enough business that they can afford to lose thousands over a few dollars of profit.
     
  47. captainamer

    captainamer Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    606
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    KC MO
    Its so simple to me. You contacted company they told you via email which is admissible in court they would replace it.
    I hope you do file a BBB complaint.
    To me its that they lied and thats bad business
     
  48. Bartnmax

    Bartnmax Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Ahh yes, the old golden rule of maketing;
    1 dis-satisfied customer = 100s of lost sales
    BAD move on their part. Especially since the advent of the internet & international forums such as this.
    Bet they wish they'd done things differently now.
     
  49. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    223
    Location:
    PNW
    I will be filing a complaint with the BBB...
     
  50. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    39,617
    Likes Received:
    1,494
    Location:
    Texas
    3 Rivers really blew this one. The actual question of whether the stave was defective is no longer the issue. Their own statements that they would replace the stave were made , and should have been honored, no matter how many second thoughts they had. From my reading, the OP did not initially contact them _asking_ for a refund, but for advice on what went wrong. The company concluded that it was not his fault. Apparently, so did the maker of the stave.

    By reneging on their first offer, and later deciding the damage was done by the customer, they saved a few dollars on replacement cost. In doing so, however, they have created a public image of a company that is cheap, grasping, indecisive, and with NO interest in customer satisfaction or service.

    That image is going to be far more costly than the replacement of the bow stave could have ever been. Penny wise and pound foolish is the old saying.

    Had they followed through on that initial offer, they would have been the subject of a glowing thread here, showing how they had provided customer service above and beyond. That would likely have brought them enough new orders from this crowd to more than compensate for the cost they incurred, as well as giving them a long term online "attaboy" thread that would have brought them long term benefits in PR.

    It is always disconcerting to watch a slow motion train wreck, but that is what we seem to have here. I have to wonder if the owners really wanted this, or if some MBA manager made the decision to save a few dollars.

    The BBB complaint will undoubtedly also be an ongoing PR negative. Really , really a stupid outcome. JMHO.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page