Blade profile/grind style preferences?

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by SwissArmyKnife, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. SwissArmyKnife

    SwissArmyKnife Scout

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    I've got a few knife ideas in my head and am curious about your preferred grind for various activities.
    What grind (flat, convex, micro-bevel...) do you prefer for:
    Every day use
    Batoning
    Field dressing, cleaning game
    Cutting material
    Carving
    Fine carving
    Feather sticks/shavings
    Holding an edge
    Freehand Sharpening
    Other uses not listed.

    *EDIT*
    Also, a brief summary as you why you like each type for a given activity would be appreciated. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  2. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Every day use: convex
    Batoning: convex
    Field dressing, cleaning game: convex
    Cutting material: convex
    Carving: convex
    Fine carving: convex
    Feather sticks/shavings: convex
    Other uses not listed.: convex

    :D:5:
     
  3. SwissArmyKnife

    SwissArmyKnife Scout

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    Lol, I think there's a pattern there. Thank you. I'd also like to know a bit about why you like it better. I'll edit my first post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  4. darkwolf777

    darkwolf777 Tracker

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    LMAO. Iz, do you like a convex grind or would you rather the Convex grind? We could always order you one with the conVex grind so you could have a selection. JK:16:
    Me, I like them all and can use most grinds for most chores: except fine carving and that's because I can't carve fine, but for everything else, whatever I have I make it work. Oh and Iz likes his a little on the anti-hollow ground side:38: (sorry Iz, just had to, I'm still laughing a little).
     
  5. MtnManJoe

    MtnManJoe Guide

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    uh - You are stuck in a rut .. have you ever considered trying a 'convex' grind?
     
  6. shonuffisthemaster

    shonuffisthemaster Scout

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    this is an intresting post, really got me thinking.

    Every day use -
    I carry a Mora craftline robust daily, mostly because its cheep and I don't mind if it gets lost, damaged, etc., its also easy to maintain a good edge on a scandi grind. when I'm out in the woods though, I either carry a convex or FFG, mostly because thats what the slightly larger knives i like come in, i would say my preference is FFG with a single primary bevel and no microbevel, its easier to sharpen in the field without a microbevel.

    Batoning -
    for baton splitting I would go with convex for the slightly more robust edge and better wedging action, after that i would pick a saber grind for the same reasons. for baton cross cutting it would be FFG with a single primary bevel and microbevel, because it will bite in more redily but is still a bit sronger.

    Field dressing, cleaning game -
    I like a Mora because its easy to get a really good edge on it, otherwise i dont see much difference in this task, as long as its sharp

    Cutting material -
    anything will do imo

    Carving -
    FFG with small primary bevel, it makes for the best slicer and imo the best for carving too, second choice would be convex, i don't like scandi's all that much for carving as i feel there is a bit of wedging action that takes over the cut that I don't like, but they certainly will work. a thin ffg with a small bevel wedges into the wood less than either a scandi or convex, thus it makes more accurate cuts imo

    Fine carving -
    same as above

    Feather sticks/shavings -
    everything is about the same imo, except i would say a really thick blade with a scandi grind dosent work verry well because of the angle you have to hold it at to carve, and that angle tends to make it want to bite int. this is why i would say

    Holding an edge -
    really just depends on what your final angle is, not much difference really. this is a misconception i think people have about different grinds, they think this or that grind is "sharper" or "tougher" or cuts better, when in reality it just depends on the angles involved and the geomitry, even with a convex edge there is a final "angle", i think the tendincy is to profile different grinds differently, and that is why they get there different reputations.

    Freehand Sharpening
    definatly a scandi for ease of freehand sharpening, but its also the most labor intensive to sharpen due to the wide bevel / allot of steel to abrade, i would say followed closely by convex, very easy and natural to sharpen by hand, and Flat ground with a wider bevel is my third choice. i have found it pretty difficult to put an accurate "true" microbevel on by hand, especially in the field, and re sharpening a microbevel by hand accuratly is verry difficult
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  7. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Every day use: FFG good all around grind with a good balance of strength and cutting ability.

    Batoning: Scandi or Scandivex, I find that there tends to be less binding as the bevel directs the wood away from the blade.

    Field dressing, cleaning game: FFG a good slicer that won't chip easily.

    Cutting material: FFG again good all around.

    Carving: Scandi because the wide flat bevel gives good control or an FFG if that's what I have.

    Fine carving: I wouldn't call my carving fine but we'll say same as above but smaller blade size.

    Feather sticks/shavings: same as carving.

    Holding an edge: This depends more on the steel/HT IMO but I give a slight edge to the FFG.

    Freehand Sharpening: FFG I'm the odd man out here I only free hand and after years of doing blades with secondary bevels I am used to it where as a Scandi grind is rather new to me and I've only recently learned how to sharpen them. Because there is less material being removed I find the FFG takes less time.

    Other uses not listed: If you had not figured it out I like the FFG it fits my keep it simple ideology and can anything well. I have come to apreciate the scandi grind but it doesn't cut it with some tasks such as slicing.

    As for the blade shape I like I prefer a simple drop point nothing drastic; enough to get the benifits of a natural distal taper a strong tip and still keep a very useful point on the knife think Mora or ESEE.
     
  8. shonuffisthemaster

    shonuffisthemaster Scout

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    Thats pretty similar to my philosophy too, and i love the esee's! I learned how to sharpen on ffg and for a long time thats all i carried. Im a fairly recent (last couple years) mora convert too.
     
  9. SwissArmyKnife

    SwissArmyKnife Scout

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    Forgive me for asking, what does FFG stand for? Also, since I thought a scandi was a flat grind (shows how much I still have to learn), what's the difference between them?
     
  10. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Full Flat Grind; a Swiss Army knife normally comes with a FFG blade. A Mora (scandi) has no grind really just the edge bevel where as if you look at a SAK you will notice that it was first ground to a v shape (thiner near the edge thicker at the spine) then a secondary or edge bevel was put on to make it sharp.
     
  11. DanielKrier

    DanielKrier Scout

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    Scandi grind for fine work, convex for just about everything else.
     
  12. Prairiewolf

    Prairiewolf Guide

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    I saw an ad for a Enzo Trapper D2 with what looks like FFG. Anybody have any experience with this?
     
  13. Bax 40

    Bax 40 Supporter Supporter

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    :


    I think you have a convex fixation!!:cool:
     
  14. chiefs50

    chiefs50 Banned Member Banned

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    A convex for wood carving? You have to be kidding.

    Every day use - Convex
    Batoning - Convex
    Field dressing, cleaning game - Size and shape of blade are more important than type of grind. My Buck 110 has field dressed many Whitetail Bucks. It is hollow ground and works well for this purpose. For small game I use my old Marble's Bird and Trout knife.
    Cutting material - depends on type of material. Light stuff probably a Scandi grind. For heavier stuff, a convex.
    Carving - There is no room for discussion here. All carving knives are Scandi grind. Ask the Swedes, Finns, Norwegians, or just about any wood carver.
    Fine carving - See above.
    Feather sticks/shavings - Scandi Grind
    Holding an edge - Convex
    Freehand Sharpening - Scandi. Simple, just follow the angle. Easy to do in the bush.
    Other uses not listed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
  15. S.Gossman

    S.Gossman Guide

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    I'm with Iz. There's nothing I can't do with a convex grind. It can be adjusted (primary grind and edge) to do all of the listed tasks.
    Scott
     
  16. knifeman85

    knifeman85 Scout

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    Scandi or 1/2 flat,because the thinner blade profile seems to carve wood and process game a littile easier than a thicker blade.I also have exellent results batoning with these edges.For me I can sharpen these profiles easier.
     
  17. RoundBear

    RoundBear Banned Member Banned

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    Every day use: depends on the day, lol. Lately its been a pro ground knife.
    Batoning: convex but prefer to use an AXE for splitting wood.
    Field dressing, cleaning game: hollow
    Cutting material: pro grind
    Carving: pro grind or scandi
    Fine carving: pro grind or scandi
    Feather sticks/shavings: scandi
    Holding an edge: rockwell hardness plays the main role in this.
    Freehand Sharpening: pro grind
     
  18. SwissArmyKnife

    SwissArmyKnife Scout

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    Im learning alot of useful information on this thread, as I'm sure many lurkers are as well.

    So what's "half flat" and "Pro-Grind?"
     
  19. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Every day use: I'd prefer my SAK's natural grind, but i can't sharpen flat, so it's convexed. but most of what i do on a daily basis involving my EDC knife would be better done with a scandi/flat grind.

    Batoning: I don't baton with my knives. That's what a hatchet is for. If I did it, I'd prefer a convex.

    Field dressing, cleaning game: Convex.

    Cutting material: scissors, or doesn't matter.

    Carving: scandi/flat

    Fine carving: scandi/flat

    Feather sticks/shavings: scandi/flat

    Holding an edge: this is largely dependent on the steel, not the grind.

    Freehand Sharpening: convex. i can't sharpen a flat/scandi freehand worth a flip.
     
  20. HoboTree

    HoboTree Guide

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    all around I prefer convex edges but scandi grind is nice too.
     
  21. ED-E

    ED-E Banned Member Banned

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    Every day use:Scandi/Flat
    Batoning:Scandi/Flat
    Field dressing, cleaning game: Scandi/Flat
    Cutting material:Scandi/Flat
    Carving:Scandi
    Fine carving:Scandi
    Feather sticks/shavings:Scandi/Flat
    Freehand Sharpening:Scandi/Flat
    Other uses not listed: Scandi/Flat

    Because I sharpen freehand and strop my knives after, they nearly all have developed a convex micro bevel.
     
  22. Mr.LCV

    Mr.LCV Knife Snob Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Ditto
     
  23. shonuffisthemaster

    shonuffisthemaster Scout

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    Thats just not true, allot of flexcut knives are not scandi, if im not mistaken quite a few wood carvers use those, so if you ask those wood carvers......
     
  24. Foilist

    Foilist Scout

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    I like a flat grind for all around use, due to its slicing ability and ease of sharpening.

    That said, I don't shy away from other grinds if I otherwise like the knife.
     
  25. donal

    donal Banned Member Banned

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    I'm not about to split all the hairs

    and differences in grind bevels, angles, or an 'appleseed' edge; being the lack thereof, or methods, and grits. I sharpen to the typical use... leather, wood, rope, ect. If I have to chop something with a tool, it gets heavier bevels/convexing, and maybe a different degree of polish, at the completion of sharpening. I use India stones, files, diamond sticks, and sometimes stropping using one of two rouges to get the edge I need. I have a Belgian blue stone, needs truing BAD; and a beautiful black Ark. stone, for an absolute polish, before stropping. I test my edges by filleting the paper off of a cigarette, sometimes doubling it back, with thinner knives, at a higher polish. Best field sharpener IMO, is the Eze-Lap Model 'M'..not perfectly coated, evenness-wise, but they work, and will not break, and they're compact.
     
  26. MtnNomad

    MtnNomad Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Convex for me.
     
  27. SwissArmyKnife

    SwissArmyKnife Scout

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    I found a good wiki Page on grinds image using for reference now with this thread.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind#section_2
    [​IMG]
    1. Hollow grind — a knife blade which has been ground to create a characteristic concave, beveled cutting edge along. This is characteristic of straight razors, used for shaving, and yields a very sharp but weak edge which requires stropping for maintenance.

    2. Flat grind — The blade tapers all the way from the spine to the edge from both sides. A lot of metal is removed from the blade and is thus more difficult to grind, one factor that limits its commercial use. It sacrifices edge durability in favor of more sharpness. A true, flat ground knife having only a single bevel is somewhat of a rarity.

    3. Sabre grind — Similar to a flat grind blade except that the bevel starts at about the middle of the blade, not the spine. Also named "Scandinavian Grind", it produces a more lasting edge at the expense of some cutting ability and is typical of kitchen knives. Also sometimes referred to as a "V Grind", made with strength in mind and found on tactical and military knives. The Finnish puukko is an example of a scandinavian ground knife.

    4. Chisel grind — As on a chisel, only one side is ground (often at an edge angle of about 20 – 30°); the other remains flat. As many Japanese culinary knives tend to be chisel ground they are often sharper than a typical double bevelled Western culinary knife. (A chisel grind has only a single edge angle. If a sabre grind blade has the same edge angle as a chisel grind, it still has two edges and thus has twice the included angle.) Knives which are chisel ground come in left and right-handed varieties, depending upon which side is ground. Japanese knives feature subtle variations on the chisel grind: firstly, the back side of the blade is often concave, to reduce drag and adhesion so the food separates more cleanly; this feature is known as urasuki. [2] Secondly, the kanisaki deba, used for cutting crab and other shellfish, has the grind on the opposite side (left side angled for right-handed use), so that the meat is not cut when chopping the shell. [3]

    5. Double bevel or compound bevel — A back bevel, similar to a sabre or flat grind, is put on the blade behind the edge bevel (the bevel which is the foremost cutting surface). This back bevel keeps the section of blade behind the edge thinner which improves cutting ability. Being less acute at the edge than a single bevel, sharpness is sacrificed for resilience: such a grind is much less prone to chipping or rolling than a single bevel blade. In practice, double bevels are common in a variety of edge angles and back bevel angles, and Western kitchen knives generally have a double bevel, with an edge angle of 14-16° (included angle of 28-32°) and a maximum of 40° as specified by International standard ISO 8442.1 (knives for the preparation of food).

    6. Convex grind — Rather than tapering with straight lines to the edge, the taper is curved, though in the opposite manner to a hollow grind. Such a shape keeps a lot of metal behind the edge making for a stronger edge while still allowing a good degree of sharpness. This grind can be used on axes and is sometimes called an axe grind. As the angle of the taper is constantly changing this type of grind requires some degree of skill to reproduce on a flat stone. Convex blades usually need to be made from thicker stock than other blades. [1] This is also known as hamaguriba in Japanese kitchen knives, both single and double beveled. Hamaguriba means "clam-shaped edge". [citation needed]

    It is possible to combine grinds or produce other variations. For example, some blades may be flat ground for much of the blade but be convex ground towards the edge.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
  28. skbenton

    skbenton Tracker

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    Knife grind you prefer

    What is your preferred knife grind? Scandi, convex, hollow, etc...
    And why?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
     
  29. Murphnuge

    Murphnuge Supporter Supporter

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    Flat grind, strength and simplicity.
     
  30. Mr.LCV

    Mr.LCV Knife Snob Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Hasn't this been done? Convex it works and easy to maintain
     
  31. GrandLarsony

    GrandLarsony Guide

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    And slicing ability. FFG totally my fav.
     
  32. Mr. Tettnanger

    Mr. Tettnanger Supporter Supporter

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    A sharp one!
     
  33. Yevoc1

    Yevoc1 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Scandi or Saber!
     
  34. Bax 40

    Bax 40 Supporter Supporter

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    Convex of course!


    Larry
     
  35. Paul Foreman

    Paul Foreman Supporter Supporter

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    the scandi grind on my mora bushcraft black (as opposed to the scandi grind angles on my other moras), and the full flat on my grohman no. 1 stainless ...
     
  36. Thump

    Thump Tracker

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    Scandi grind with a small secondary convex bevel for my home knifes ( kitchen, working in the yard etc)
    Full flat grind with a convex secondary bevel for the woods.
    Hollow when used for leather work, razorblades etc.
     
  37. wingnuts

    wingnuts Guide

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    Full flat! But I have tons of knives with different grinds.
     
  38. JV Rooster

    JV Rooster Guide

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    Full flat grind for me.
     
  39. GreatLakesWoodsman

    GreatLakesWoodsman Scout

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    Full Flat or scandi
     
  40. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Banned Member Banned

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    Full flat primary with a thin convex edge to reduce the shoulder transition.
     
  41. Sanjuro

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    There is no perfect grind IMO. Each one has it's pros/cons, and a time and place.

    Camp and Bushcraft: Scandi or Convex. I slightly prefer convex most the time.

    All-purpose blade and EDCs folders: Full flat grind

    Hunting and Skinning: High hollow grind.
     
  42. outdoorsintx

    outdoorsintx Scout Bushclass I

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    The convex grind I maintain on my Condor Bushlore works for the applications I put it too, like splitting wood for fires and beating it through stuff. However, the scandi grind on my Mora 120 carving knife is great for the applications I put it to. What application are you considering when you ask the question?
     
  43. PaulK

    PaulK Banned Member Banned

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    Flat, convex and scandi. Each has its benefits. Not a big fan of hollow ground but in a pinch I can make any grind work for general cutting duties.
     
  44. skbenton

    skbenton Tracker

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    General bushcraft and camping...still on my eternal search for the"light sabre"

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
     
  45. Nih

    Nih Scout

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    It depends on the knife and what I'm doing with it. However, most of my knives end up with a slight convexity after I've sharpened them a few times due to my method of sharpening.
     
  46. Longbow29

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    I like a rolled point edge, similar to a Japanese sword, or the old Blackjack Anaconda....But for ease of sharpening it is hard to beat a Scandi - edge.
     
  47. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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  48. turtlepwr281

    turtlepwr281 Scout

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    For shaving my face...hollow.
    For everything else...leaning very heavily towards convex with varying degrees of secondary bevel.
     
  49. woodsghost

    woodsghost Guide

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    The answer to what grind YOU prefer is: get out there and play with your knives! :) Try them all, and see what you keep returning to.

    You have a pretty good sample here of what people like.

    I prefer different flavers of convex. Most of my blades are some version of a full flat primary with convex secondary, with different levels of shallow or obtuse curves. I have a few that are basically full convex. I have one hollow ground primary bevel with a convex secondary, that rocks my world (old model Ka-Bar Warthog). Sometimes I have to put a micro bevel on even my convex blades! I think I am hard on knife edges, but there might be other factors at work (steel type, heat treats, way I use my knives, etc).

    On one carving knife, I have a scandi, which I like. I think I will keep that one a scandi and only use on soft woods.

    Have fun with those knives in the woods! :50:

    Iz: thanks man for putting that together!
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  50. TheWanderer

    TheWanderer Banned Member Banned

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    Slightly convexed Scandi (seems easiest to sharpen for me) or convexed

    BTW: Hello all, new to the forum
     

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