Fixed Blade Knives....Boy Scouts

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by AlteredMentalStatus, Feb 8, 2011.

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  1. AlteredMentalStatus

    AlteredMentalStatus Bushmaster Bushclass I

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    ok....I know there has been a lot of talk over the last few years about fixed Blade Knives being "outlawed" by BSA, but that it is not true:
    this is taken from the "Safe Guide to Scouting"
    A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.
    Remember—knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.
    References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book...
    Here's what we're starting at our troop and I need some help form you guys...
    "A Fixed Blade Knife Certification Course"
    The boys will be required to be 2nd class or higher, have a complete Tote-n-Chip card,complete a required course that will cover hand grips for the fixed blade,Knife Care(sharpening),only allowed to carry certain types of fixed blade knives (full tang or 3/4), (5" or smaller blades), Demonstrate knife handling proficiency (must make item required by instructor) just to name a few. If you were going to do this what would you require from the boys....looking for suggestions, I'll post up completed course when it's finished
    Let me hear your ideas.....
    Thanks
     
  2. Nerual the Mad

    Nerual the Mad Guide

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    I would only allow them to carry on a camping trip. Not to meetings unless working on the skill. Make sure they have a sheath for the knife. Not just a rolled up tee shirt, box or plastic edge cover. Make sure that they understand that any misuse will be an automatic revoke of the certification and clear rules as to what misuse would cover. And as always written consent from a parent.
     
  3. lukenm

    lukenm Tracker

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    As a Scoutmaster, I'm thrilled to hear someone else besides myself shooting down the "no fixed-blade knives" myth. A Scoutmaster from another troop tried fervently to convince me that it was true, at which point I pointed out that, very technically speaking, axes are fixed-blade knives. Big, heavy fixed-blade knives. And we let Scouts swing those in the axeyard. So why, oh why, would a useful fixed-blade camp knife be outlawed? He had no answer. And if it's a "policy", why is it not written in bold on the Tote-n-Chip card and in every handbook? I secretly cheered for myself. But I digress . . . That being said, fixed-blades are not necessarily for every boy. Just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD.
    In our troop, we are setting about to do something very similar to what you have written.
    HAVE to have the Tote-n-Chip
    HAVE to be 1st class
    HAVE to have proven that they are ready

    I think I'm a little stricter than most others when it comes to the Tote-n-Chip. Normally, there's the whole "four corners" rule, where a corner gets cut off at each misuse. In our troop, the card has one corner. Foul up, and it gets taken away. Yes, I know that strays from BSA policy, but I said I was strict. So far, I have yet to have to take away a card for misuse. They all seem to take it seriously, which was my goal. Anyway, if they've ever lost their Tote-n-Chip, it's harder to get back each time. So proving that they are ready includes being responsible enough to KEEP the Tote-n-Chip.
    I've been toying with the idea of having the prospective young man teach the Tote-n-Chip skills to a younger Scout in order to show that he has "engrained" the principles, so to speak. Maybe do a presentation to the troop, etc.
    Another concept I was thinking of is only allowing those fixed-blade knives that have been specifically given out BY A SCOUTMASTER. So a boy can earn the right to carry one, but it has to be one given to him by me (probably a Mora or something similar). More cost to me, but I'd rather pay that price than the alternative (a boy showing up with a POS knife that breaks on the first use and injures someone, a boy showing up with a 12" Rambo knife to show off, etc.). This concept ensures that the blade will always be a certain size and quality, and that it is earned by individual merit. The Scoutmaster decides which boy is ready in the end. Frankly, there are Scouts I've seen in other troops that have fulfilled the requirements to carry a knife, but who still shouldn't have blades in their possession because they're just too careless or non-chalant about them (or, more likely, their Scoutmasters haven't been serious enough with them on the topic of what a knife is for). Just a couple of thoughts.
    I'm very interested in reading what you come up with, since I haven't gotten any cemented ideas yet.
     
  4. One Legged Josh

    One Legged Josh Dirt Merchant Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    I might consider a "sit down" rule. It would help to insure that the scouts sheath their knives when they should, and are not moving around with an exposed blade.
     
  5. statikpunk

    statikpunk Guide

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    I dont know what the bsa was thinking on "banning" fixed knives, but i imagine what they meant was that a woods knife doesnt "have" to be a big monster bowie Rambo knife (which a lot of kids and adults assume)

    honestly a reasonable fixed blade is much safer than the classic slip joint scout style knife, its just more convenient to carry. a slip joint can accidentally close on ones finger (I know! :17:)

    if your looking for good info there is a lot of old Scandinavian books written for school children on the use of a fixed blade (which was a large part of their culture) those may be good resources for a safety/use class. i think their might be one in the downloads section here. i will go look around and see if I can find anything.
     
  6. statikpunk

    statikpunk Guide

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  7. Two Rivers

    Two Rivers Guide

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    Maybe some kind of cerimony when they do Earn their Card and Knife. Making it an achievement to be proud of, might help to instill a more responsible attitude as far as proper handling and such.
     
  8. Michael

    Michael Scout

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    are boys are given a fixed blade after thay coplete there red hike and there training in knife safty there has never been one boy play around with there knife as thay know I would float test it for em in the closes lake
     
  9. Mholder

    Mholder Tracker

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    I was'told' BSA had a no fixed blade policy and believed it. Now that I think about it it may be our council policy or some blow hard spouting off.
    I did hear on the news that in England BoyScouts had banned pocket knives? Can't figure that one out, but I did hear it on either CBS or ABC radio news. Can anybody confirm or refute that report. I would cerrainly hope it isn't true.
    Mholder
    Saline County MO
     
  10. Pinebaron

    Pinebaron Guide

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    All great comments. My one comment is I would only limit the length of the blade and not necessarily the type. The Scout Shop sells or used to sell a 5" lock blade so that might be a good limit on length. With your tang requirement you would leave out companies like Buck, Case, KaBar and Mora. I believe years (and years) age the Scout Shop used to have KaBar hunting knives. I do recommend that all knives come with a STURDY sheath and care taken to make sure the knife is worn properly as well (when worn on the front the knife can pierce the sheath and enter their leg).
     
  11. ForestNH/VT

    ForestNH/VT Scout

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    Local Councils also have there own rules and standards. The Council we fell under DOES ban all fixed blade knives except for some Venturers. I know in VT at lest one Troop that also completely bans axes. Not rumor, but first hand info from some one who used to be in BSA leadership. FWIW

    Forest
     
  12. dwightp

    dwightp Guide Bushclass I

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    Same in our area. My son is an Eagle Scout and he says that fixed blade knives are absolutely prohibited within their council.
    ______

    As an aside, the original posting said that his proposed policy would require a 3/4 or full tang. This would eliminate some of the Moras, right?
     
  13. vermillion8604

    vermillion8604 Guide

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    +1 on this
     
  14. The Warning

    The Warning Scout

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    It's crazy that they would outlaw fixed blade knives, on some sort of "safety" grounds. I've seen way more people hurt themselves with folders over the years than with a fixed blade.

    As a leader I've carried a fixed on several outings, and it never occurred to me that the BSA would have a policy on it. I'll have to look into is.
     
  15. Niflreika

    Niflreika Guide

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    Really, I would not make it any harder to be allowed a fixed blade than an axe. I remember it was a very big deal to be allowed an axe in my troop when I was a kid, and we thought the Scoutmasters were actively looking for excuses to take it away.

    Once the Scout proves himself capable AND responsible, have him give a demonstration before the troop of some basic skills with the knife.

    One thing I would contradict a previous poster on, is I would allow them to have the fixed blade knives at meetings (I have a strong urge to make it a uniform requirement, but I'm told I'm a bit too militant about such things). Reason: those boys should be looked up to, and being allowed something may provide a kick in the pants for the other kids to make every effort to get the same.

    As for the knife, I would not be too stringent about design, although I greatly prefer the idea of the Scoutmaster providing the knives -- maybe make it an allowable expense from the troop coffers.

    I know others may disagree, but I think a great way to go is one of these:
    Jarvenpaa
    [​IMG]

    Some may have a problem with them having no guard. That really isn't a problem, because it has a flat, smooth metal buttcap where you put forward pressure with your off hand when drilling or some such, and the shape of the grip makes them very secure on the hand (I tried putting way too much forward pressure on mine to see where it would slip. My hand never moved. So, unless they are trying to drive it through body armor, it's safe. Plus, proper handling is part of the requirement to be satisfied.).

    Next is the sheath. I figure many won't like the style, but let me point out the advantages:
    1.) The knife seats very deep, and is very secure. If you aren't careful, you can seat it too firmly, and have a hard time getting it back out. The knife won't fall out on it's own.
    2.) It has a plastic liner -- the blade won't cut through.
    3.) It works best when carried in front, as it'd best to use both hands to extract the blade. This is not dangerous. Because the sheath grips the knife at the handle, and it has the plastic liner, it's near impossible for the blade to ever pierce the sheath. In fact if, you were to put enough pressure on to make the blade pierce the sheath, you'd rip the dangler off first.
    4.) The "fan" at the end makes the sheath deflect when it hits something. Another safety feature that keeps one from impaling themselves upon their own knife in the event of a fall.

    The small one has a 3 3/8" blade, the medium a 3 7/8" blade and the large a 5" blade. IMO the medium is the most useful of the three and runs about $50.

    Some things I'd do with this specific knife:
    Besides skills, have the Scout properly apply an oil finish to the handle and oil the sheath. Then have him apply a beeswax finish to the sheath and handle. Kind of doing the finishing of the knife himself -- part of the use & care aspect. Then, when he earns the right to carry it, give him the very kniofe he's been working on this whole time.
     
  16. Dano

    Dano Banned Member Banned

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    I'm glad you are doing this. Our area has always banned fixed blade knives and I've argued it till I was blue in the face. (No winning over politics I guess.) I always thought they should at least be allowed as an option. I've also seen folders come apart or break (minor injury) where a fixed blade would have kept on going or been safer.

    I agree with the extra training/requirements. I'd add the sheath requirement, they have to wear a belt (many kids don't these days) if carrying a fixed blade, or it stays in their pack. Also safe passing/handing to another person. (Ray Mears has a video showing one method they can watch.)

    I'd set the blade limit at 5 inches to start, you can always allow longer lengths later. This also gives you the opportunity to demo how to baton wood with a knife, something most of the other Troops won't teach, and they can learn the one-stick method with an axe AND a knife.

    Good job on your part!!
     
  17. gpgriz

    gpgriz Tracker

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    knives

    Our Cub Scouts (8-10 yr olds) group does axe and knife safety during our camps. Every camp has atleast a refresher.

    Cubs are expected to bring their own knife, therefore, if a parent helps pack it, they are approving the activity. However, the knife HAS to be either fixed blade or lockback. That's about the only limit I've had to use. One Cub didn't have a fixed or lb so was able to borrow a knife from a leader.

    Knives are ALWAYS closed/sheathed when moving around or passing to another Cub.
    Cubs are ALWAYS sitting down to practice safety or using (ie: whittling). And are using in a direction AWAY from others.
    Knife usage is ONLY allowed when a leader/adult is present.
    NO knife usage until we have done the course. The course is the second thing done at camp after the general area hike to familiarise ourselves with the campsite.
    ANY misuse will result in IMMEDIATE confiscation of the knife. Duration of confiscation is dependant on misuse in question. It may be a talk and return after 1/2 an hour or may be a talk and knife is handed back to parent at end of camp.

    That's some stuff off the top of my head...

    Do Cubs/Scouts make mistakes? Yep. Sure do. And they bleed from those mistakes. Experience can be an unforgiving teacher. Different from the kind of teacher they have at school. You might not remember who was assassinated that started WWI; but you'll remember what you were doing when you cut your thumb!
    This is why we, as leaders, have First Aid Training and FA Kits...

    One of my sons cut himself. Medium deep. He calmly put away his knife, let the adult know he was leaving to find me, got FA and a bandage. I asked him if he was whittling in a way he was instructed not to. Guess what...he was. He sure learned! Hasn't cut himself since and has 'coached' other Cubs in their knife use. I was not mad at him for the mistake (there's always one..) but told him I was proud of how he handled it and that he learned from it.
    When we got home, Mom was understanding of the whole situation. She learned knife use from her father and understands that mistakes happen.


    Anyway...my Cubs enjoy whittling. Are interested to learn and practice safely. And take pride in the carving they do.
    It's an important skill that they often don't learn at home. Keep it up!
    I'm proud that my Cub Scouts learn to use axes and knives safely!

    cheers!
    gpgriz.
     
  18. Hiline

    Hiline Scout Bushclass I

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    In my District the fixed blade knife is banned. Except when they need one then they come find me because they know I called BS on that. My boys in my troop are allowed to carry fixed blade knives as long as they have their totin Chit (which actually doesn't cover knives only axes and saws but i do knives also) are second class and a blade no longer than 4.5 inches. Anything longer and you need a concealed weapons permit. I carry the Mora #1, 2 around my neck and have a mora 511 in my pack. I recommend the mora 511 to my scouts. In reality, none of them carry a sheath knife except my boy and it's a traditional mora with a 3 inch blade. I will be taking them on a survival campout this summer and we'll see how well they do with out an axe and only a pocket knife. :)
     
  19. Grits

    Grits Guide

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    This is the idea that I arrived at. The boy could buy the knife at a discount if you did not want to pay for the whole thing yourself. This defrays some of your cost, puts some of the Scout's own money into the equation---leading him to take better care of it. Owning and carrying such a knife would be a sign of maturity, maybe more than a rank patch, since the knife is a tool that can be used for good or ill.

    Only thing I'd say is that the conditions to earn it must be supported with solid education, and observable evidence that the Scout can handle a knife safely. In other words, you've got to take the "Scoutmaster's opinion" out of the equation, otherwise, the boy who feels he is arbitrarily denied may in fact end up sneaking around with a Rambo-knife to compensate for his insecurity.
     
  20. EnglishManInOntario

    EnglishManInOntario Guide

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    If it's true, it's probably more a reflection of the ultra retarded current UK knife legislation than of UK scouting culture. When I was a scout, the rule was if it looks like a weapon (ie. double-edged, tacticool, etc.) then it stays at home, otherwise anything goes. To be fair that was over 20 years ago, and things have changed a great deal for the worse in England since then.
     
  21. Zengunfighter

    Zengunfighter Guide

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    How utterly depressing.
    Not being able to trust young men with a simple tool.
     
  22. AlteredMentalStatus

    AlteredMentalStatus Bushmaster Bushclass I

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    Hey Brother Zen, good to hear from ya.... It's not that they don't trust, they say there is not a need for a fixed blade ... I say HORSE SHIT!!!

    Hey guys a lot of good advise, keep it coming...,
     
  23. Two Rivers

    Two Rivers Guide

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    This is just perplexing. How in the world does one learn camp skills without a knife. Its the one common tool every woodsman has and needs. Why would they ban this tool ? Safety ? Everyone has to learn safety. A kid is going to cut himself a million times in his life time. Thats just life. Sometimes these rules and laws really stiffle a persons learning and capabilities. I was givena knife when I was 6 years old and told how to use it. I was given a bicycle when I was 4, nobody ever thought about helmets. Kids fall, kids get cut, its all part of the learning process. Society really erks me sometimes.

    Sorry for the short Rant. Its just rediculous.
     
  24. smokewalker

    smokewalker Guide

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    My how the times have changed since I was a scout. I remember going to the one store in the county that carried all things BSA related and in the case was a fixed blade knife with a stacked leather handle and that scout crest tooled into the leather sheath. I stood there staring in awe with a little drool in the corner of my mouth but as I remember you had to earn your tender foot badge before you where aloud posses it as a scout. my ma said it would have to wait and I already had a fixed blade any way so I didn't need it.(women what do they know) I never did get that knife but I do have more sharps than I can every wear out in 10 lifetimes.
     
  25. VtBlackDog

    VtBlackDog Guide

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    they should ban the Made in China crappy scout knives!

    do you need any kind of special permission from parents
     
  26. Bolexguy

    Bolexguy Tracker

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    i think there is more need in scouts for a fixed blade than a folder

    maybe a scout issue/endored Mora would serve better than a crappy cheap folder

    I feel like the whole scouting movement has been scared by a few recent years of various lawsuits into thinking that everything under the sun is a liability

    and now a quote from the first CHief Scout , Sir Robert Baden-Powell "we are not a club or a sunday school class, but a school of the woods"

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the woods!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  27. Malleus

    Malleus Scout

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    I have talked at length about this with my son (13). His troop does not allow fixed blades.
    It may not be a scouting rule but it's a troop rule, at least for him.
     
  28. L.V

    L.V Guide Bushclass I

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  29. Bolexguy

    Bolexguy Tracker

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    That is very interesting - please tell us more =) I've never heard of a barrel knife
     
  30. L.V

    L.V Guide Bushclass I

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    I'm no way an expert to tell, but what I have understood they were made in Sweden like from about mid 19th century up until around 1952 the manufacturing stopped. Construction is like ordinary frictionfolder with extra safety with that barrel shaped handle which lock the blade open or closed. Today there is only custom made ones in the market or old ones in ebay as far as I know. Many sizes were made aprox. 1½ to really big ones (again I'm not expert on these).

    This is a kind of good article of them I think. http://reviews.ebay.com/SWEDISH-BARREL-KNIVES_W0QQugidZ10000000002557777
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2011
  31. Skullhead

    Skullhead Tracker

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    I agree on letting Scouts use a limited length fixed blade. I agree with having guidelines like you proposed as well, which is totally reasonable. I know when I was in Scouts, I was bummed out about not being able to use a fixed blade. We were allowed to use hatchets though....?? We used them in a roped off area for safety, but still swinging a hatchet has some serious risks.

    Hopefully it will work out for your troop.
     
  32. Taliesin

    Taliesin Guide

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    Hmm... Wouldn't an Opinel be just as good?
     
  33. AlteredMentalStatus

    AlteredMentalStatus Bushmaster Bushclass I

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    Ok boys....I cant draw to save my life.....I need someone to draw a fixed blade knife and label all the parts of a knife and send it to my email.....michael_tutton@yahoo.com .I would also appreciate a drawing of all the different types of blade shapes.....I will give you credit for your drawing.....Thanks...
    The course I'm planning on putting together is going to be in depth......
     
  34. Sandcut

    Sandcut Guide Vendor

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    Well, I can't speak to Boy Scouts since I only have girls. I'm not sure what Girl Scout policy is on the subject of knives (fixed or otherwise) because I think any prohibition is complete horseshit and most of the moms and our troop leader look to me for guidance on all things outdoorsy.

    What I can share from teaching my two daughters about knife use this past year or two is this. For a child just starting out learning how to use a knife, a fixed blade, IMO, is PREFERABLE. My girls as well as some of my friend's kids simply don't have the hand strength at times to safely open a folding knife. I gave my elder daughter a Victorinox Tinker for her 8th birthday (that was her pick). She couldn't even open it the spine was so stiff. And we all know that forcing a knife in ANY manner is just looking for trouble. I ended up getting her Frosts Coon Hunter to tide her over until I could get her a better knife. Younger daughter got a Brusletto Spikkekniv. I just gave my nephew the smaller of the three Jarvenpaa puukos that BearKinder posted.

    The knives need to be kid-sized to be used properly. Opinels would be a good choice for folders since they aren't under spring tension and they lock for safety. They will probably be getting Opinels sometime this spring for good report card grades. A belt pouch is a good idea for them. My Opinel No. 9 opens about 1/2" on it's own sometimes, exposing the point enough that I don't carry it in my pocket.

    My girls also have difficulty w/ liner locks and lockbacks. Hand strength again.

    For sharpening, I think the Scandi grinds are easier for the kids to learn on because the bevel is easy to find by feel. Once they master this, they can work up to a secondary bevel. Again, my opinion based on watching my kids.

    To the OP, if it's any help, you are welcome to incorporate the following rules that I developed for my kids as a prerequisite for your Scout's knife ownership if you so chose. Add, change, delete as desired. (See attached)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  35. Pablo

    Pablo Guide Vendor

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    My son is moving into Boy Scouts next month. Although they can have fixed-blade knives (no longer than 3"blade), there simply isn't any real knowledge of woods tools in the troop (beyond the Totin Chip, which, in my mind is a pretty weak item). I'll be working on reestablishing a woodcraft appreciation in our troop!

    I think this all simply comes from a larger culture that has little clue how to use tools like knives for anything other than slicing carrots or buttering toast... most people have no idea what to use a good fixed blade for, but they do know that kids in cities sometimes get stabbed with knives, soooo.... since they have no real use, and might be used as a weapon...??? LNT has also done its part to demonize cutting tools. At least scouts has included short sections on using saws and axes in its latest handbook though! Maybe the fixed blade will make a similar comeback! Time to educate, and get those knives back in scout's packs!
     
  36. santaman2000

    santaman2000 Guide

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    The disapearence of wood craft from our culture is definitely part of the problem Pablo It is caused as you said by the general urbanization but also by our own concern with ecology. I don't want to sound like a woods slob with no concern for the environment; I greatly care about it. BUT...part of the reason for camping is to live (at least for a short time) like the pioneers. That means doing things like cooking over a real fire. Think about it. Today's campers really don't even NEED knives. They use gas stoves, BBQ grills (either gas or charcoal) and lanterns. Where's the fire? If there is one at all it's only a bonfire to sit around for a short time and the firewood is either bought from a camp store or brought from home. I'm going to show my age now and tell a bit about what it was like when I was a Scout. Scouting was for "boys 8 to 18" It was generally excepted that by age 8 you ALREADY KNEW how to use a knife just like you already knew how to tie your own shoes and go all night without wetting the bed.

    On the subject of what kind and size should be allowed, the limitations you've placed wouldn't allow for most filleting knives. I know there are shorter filleting knives but in my experience 6 inches is about the norm and probably the minimum length which will still be flexible enough to use as they were meant to be. When considering what type of sheath remember that leather-working is also a desirable skill and as I remember sheath kits were a common item back in my Scouting days too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  37. AlteredMentalStatus

    AlteredMentalStatus Bushmaster Bushclass I

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    I agree on the blade length....would like longer, but TX state law only allows for up to 5 1/2 inches....this way they can carry when in uniform to and from and when ever they are out....
     
  38. WestrnBushcrft

    WestrnBushcrft Guide

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    Boy Scouts and Fixed Blades???

    I bought a fixed blade for my friend a while back and he took it with him to Boy Scouts on a camping trip. They TOOK it away from him!!! And said " Boy Scouts dosen't allow fixed blade knives" then he heard later when a leader was talking about survival the leader said "a swiss army knife would work just as well as a big survival knife in a survival situation and you don't NEED a fixed blade a folder works just as well" BS!!! Is that the same with your troop???
     
  39. MJDavis

    MJDavis Unworthy Field Participant Supporter Bushclass I

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    From what I hear folks say it is the trend in Scouting.
     
  40. WestrnBushcrft

    WestrnBushcrft Guide

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    What do you mean by that???
     
  41. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    It appears, based on comments here when it comes up, that it is a troop or council level thing that some folks may just take for gospel without question.
     
  42. MJDavis

    MJDavis Unworthy Field Participant Supporter Bushclass I

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    I mean that I have heard people mention recently that the Cub/Boy Scouts do not allow fixed blade knives anymore. They may be right, or they may be wrong.
     
  43. BUSHscandi

    BUSHscandi Guide

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    Simple minded fools. A fixed blade is clearly better, for one, for less experienced hands, it is safer, as there is no chance of it closing on you. Folders have their place, and I use mine alot, but for a main knife, especially in a survival situation, i think not.
     
  44. EagleRiverDee

    EagleRiverDee Guide

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    I hope they returned the knife later. It's one thing to ban them for their activities, another to steal them.

    I disagree that a folder is as good as a fixed blade, but boy scouts must abide by the rules. He can carry his fixed blade when he's not out with the scout group.
     
  45. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    I don't know about simple minded fools, but they are thinking from a liability standpoint I believe. In those cases, facts seem to mater little compared to a lawyer's spin for a jury.
     
  46. TinderWolf

    TinderWolf Tracker

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    I took a different approach with my Troops leadership. I provided them with the paragraph from "A Safe Guide to Scouting" about knives.

    A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

    Large Sheath knives was the key. We worked through it and agreed based on the description this is not referring to a 3 or 4 inch bladed sheath knife but a bowie style. I am now the assistant scout master who approves the knives that boys can bring on campouts.

    I have truly enjoyed teaching batoning and other field crafts that can only be done safely with a full tang blade.

    Can you imagine the injuries that could be had trying to baton with a SAK?

    The book has the the answers if people would just read it. what has happened is we are trying to be so protective of the youth that we prevent them from the experiences that allow them to grow into adults.
     
  47. steene

    steene Scout

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    There is no rule against sheath knives in the "Guide to Safe Scouting". Many camps and councils have rules against them. Some Camps, Councils, and possibly units may have rules against them.

    This is the only mention I could locate in the online version regarding sheath knives.

    "Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish."
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  48. IA Woodsman

    IA Woodsman Overwatch Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator Vendor Bushclass Instructor

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    I agree 100%.
     
  49. rpilthea

    rpilthea Guide

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    ++1
    Scouters need to read the "Guide to Safe Scouting"
     
  50. ZSDAD

    ZSDAD Tracker

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    Here sheath knives are not allowed at Council activities.I allow them at our pack/ troop activities, within reason no Rambo style and such.I teach knife safety with a Mora. Now our Scoutmaster whos been in Scouting 30 plus years won't allow them, never said a word to me about mine. Guess who the boys want to take them camping?
     
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