Lessons Learned From teh Baltimore Riots

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by Crazysanman, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Thankfully I no longer live in Baltimore but I have many friends and family still there and Baltimore will always be my city. I have been watching the riots very closely, and helping to provide information to friends and family who are there.

    I put this thread in the preparedness sub-forum because I want to talk about the lessons I have learned to be prepared for something like this. In no real order I will post observations and I'd like others to do so also. Civil unrest is a popular scenario to prep for, since in any type of power grid failure or natural disaster, or basically any other situation, there will eventually be civil unrest.

    One important thing to note is that all of the stores like Walmart and Dicks have removed all ammunition and knives from the stores. They do not want looters to get them. Many small businesses are closed as well since the safety of the employees can not be ensured, so it is almost impossible to buy ammunition in the Baltimore metro area.

    On the firearms forum that I am a member of, there is a thread where people are posting stories of their anti-gun neighbors who are suddenly asking to borrow a firearm or want to buy one. They are horrified to learn that in Maryland they cannot be loaned a firearm and cannot go out and buy a handgun without first attending a training class, getting digital fingerprints and a background check, waiting for the license to buy a gun, and then waiting for the 7 day waiting period to receive a gun after buying it. If you have never owned a handgun in Maryland before, it is too late to buy one now to protect your family during these riots.

    With all the looting and violence and fires, most businesses are closed. People are home from work and stuck inside their houses. They can't simply run down the street for a few groceries. Locksmiths and alarm installers who are still open are booked solid. Many services like HVAC, plumbers, electricians, etc., aren't working because of the threat of thievery and violence. This means if you get a leaking pipe or have a furnace failure you better know how to fix it and have the parts on hand, or have a valid plan B for a work around.

    The rioters have been calling in false reports to the police. False looting reports, false hostage reports, false fire reports and shooting reports. These are tying up police and fire resources. Police cannot respond to calls alone and fire personnel cannot respond without police escort because the streets are lined with people throwing bricks and cinder blocks into the vehicles as they go down the street. They will call in several false reports in one area and then loot another area while the police are tied up investigating the bogus reports. In some cases people set fire to a building and then hid on the nearby rooftops and threw cinder blocks down on the firemen when they responded. I'm sure you've heard by now of the fire hose that was cut twice on live TV while firemen were inside a burning CVS. Last night during the peak of the rioting, the police were so overwhelmed they said they would no longer respond to calls that did not involve violent crimes. Some store owners called the police over 50 times when their stores were being looted and no police ever came. You cannot rely on the police to protect you.

    A popular target for looters has been pharmacies. They get narcotics from the pharmacy. They get pseudoephedrine to make meth with. Then everything else is looted from the shelves and finally the store is burned. There have already been stories of people who are having trouble finding medicines because all the drug stores are either closed and shuttered or looted and burned.

    The police have been on Facebook and firearm forums requesting blow out kits. Not official Baltimore City Police requests, but individual cops are literally begging people to donate trauma supplies. The police are seriously outnumbered and cannot evacuate their wounded easily. They are burning through medical supplies. Other than simply keeping supplies for your family, think about stocking extras so you can help emergency personnel or even neighbors. It's a strange situation where the police are requesting food and water and medical supplies from the citizens - you would expect it to be the other way around.

    As I come upon more lessons learned I'll post them on here. If anyone else, especially members who have been through this near Baltimore or Ferguson, have anything to add please be my guest. One request - keep it to talk about preparation. Do not turn this into political commentary or debate about the riots or the reasons for them. I'll lock the thread if it goes in that direction.
     
  2. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I've seen several people say that they were in the gun shops that were open today and none had any 12 gauge pump shotguns left. Last night people were reporting long lines at several Dicks sporting goods from people trying to buy guns.
     
  3. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Great post and great topic. We hear about empty shelves in grocery stores all of the time but there is a weird media portrayal of firearms and ammo being readily available after a disaster. Just look at all of the post apocalyptic zombie movies where the hero always finds another box of shells behind the counter somewhere. Your testimony into the situation in Baltimore shows the reality, if you don't have it now you won't have it when you need it.
     
  4. bocephus223

    bocephus223 Guide

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    I feel so bad for all the people in that city who are just trying to lives their day to day lives. And I get extremely angry when I hear about the violence towards the police and firemen. I'm not hearing any of the nasty details on the media in my neck of the woods. Maybe I'm watching the wrong channels.
     
    hawkeye1776 likes this.
  5. Chazzle

    Chazzle Guide

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    As someone living in Ferguson, I know these feelings of civil unrest all too well. My advice to everyone is to not think that "this wont happen in my town" Prepare for this contingency along with other scenarios that may be possible. My heart goes out to the residents of Baltimore. I understand their fear, frustration, and heartbreak.

    Sending smoke,

    Chazz
     
  6. Doubles

    Doubles BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    I loved the woman on the news bitch slappin' her (we presume) son who was involved in the rioting. She cares about her neighborhood and keeping her son alive and out of jail. No matter where ya are, there should be a bare minimum 72 hour kit nearby, including meds, water/ fire/ shelter making ability, and means to defend what you have that others don't. Those are some tough laws in MD, really hammers the point home that now "IT'S TOO LATE TO BUY". Ouch
     
  7. MJA

    MJA Tracker

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    Hopefully the worst of it is over have a few friends that are md state troopers and they are still there. This was a great post to get people thinking.
     
  8. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    It is always a good idea to know your neighbors, and to know who might need help or at least checking up on. Elderly and those with disabilities are often very hard put to obtain food and basic supplies. Neighbors can often help with a watch if disorders are too close, and if food or med runs need to be made, a group has much better odds of being able to avoid serious trouble.

    If the disruption is so bad police are not answering calls, then it may be hard to deal with ordinary criminal activity in areas not directly affected by the rioting. Medical and fire response are also going to be badly degraded in this case.

    I am unfamiliar with the city of Baltimore, so cannot judge what percentage of the city is directly affected. Those closest to the riot areas may need a chance to relocate with friends or family in safer areas as a temporary safety measure.

    It appears the state laws there have pretty well eliminated any chance of getting firearms for self protection in time to do any good THIS time. Those who have just now recognized the need should be encouraged though to start the process as soon as possible. There will very likely be a next time. When the police cannot protect themselves
    and when the situation has been allowed to get this far out of control, it is likely to a long time before normal emergency services are again available.

    It is now apparent from the Ferguson debacle that there will be a drastic drop in home equity values, so those trying to move to safer locations will face some financial loss.
    It is better to start looking for options now rather than later.
     
  9. Chazzle

    Chazzle Guide

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    True, We lost over 30% of our home's value since these riots in Ferguson happened. That wiped out our equity.

    Learn from us,

    Chazz
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  10. Gii shi kan dug

    Gii shi kan dug Supporter Supporter

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    My heart goes out to those who are caught up in this BS, and to all those who have friends and or family in this area. Like Greyone said, you should know your neighbors, good bad and indifferent. At least you know who is around you, to help, or that may need help, or that may be of some concern. The time to prepare is not once things blow up. I think 72 hours as a minimum. I live in a smaller town, think 20,000 people. If this kinda crap happened here it would not be good for the bad guys.On my block alone, at least half are hunters,outdoorsman, etc. that will defend their families and neighbors. I find it disturbing that they are targeting the very people that are there to protect them.
     
  11. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    It's (not) funny how that works. Law abiding, hard working gun owners, who have jumped through all the hoops you described, and having been subject to de facto "criminalization" and stigmatizing by all the nincompoops and hypocrites, are now looked to as "good guys" and the "brother can you spare a Glock" saviors. Sorry, Charlie.

    Lessons I learned when I lived through the L.A. Riots were incorporated into my daily MO, sometimes to the dismay of those around me.

    "What are you afraid of?" I have been asked numerous times. "Violent mobs and home intrusion", I reply. I don't remember any snappy comebacks to that one.

    I hope your friends remaining in B'more are safe. It's a long haul.
     
  12. NCLivingBrit

    NCLivingBrit Guide

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    Amen to that. Considering gun owners are stigmatized and subjected to ridiculous hoopla I definitely think when the self-same people who made that happen suddenly find their common sense, it would be a case of "too bad, so sorry". I try and be a good neighbour but I'm damned if I'll diminish my resources to help people who have stood in opposition to me gathering them.
     
  13. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Strangely, in smaller towns -especially rural ones- the likelihood of such rioting is much lower. Even rioters have some sense of survival and self preservation. :)

    States where gun laws permit most citizens to be armed, and where hunting is still common, are not states where rioters will do well. Here in Texas, the rioters would quickly be looking for the police to protect them from the citizens.

    Some lessons must be learned over in every generation.
     
  14. Gii shi kan dug

    Gii shi kan dug Supporter Supporter

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    Amen to that!
     
  15. Forestree

    Forestree Scout Bushclass I

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    It's hard for me to think about how to be prepared in a situation where there is rioting in the street I live on. I avoid cities and crowds like the plague.

    My preparations would most likely be 1. a way to get the hell out of there and 2. good insurance.

    @G1, good point, as well as the fact that there is a lot less stuff to pillage in rural areas....hell, I gotta drive 20 miles to get gas or a coke :)
     
  16. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Things I learned living in Syr. in some undesirable areas. Make sure the door has good locks (and if you can reinforce the door frame). You can't do much about windows so I liked living on the second floor. High enough it is difficult to climb up to a window low enough to jump from one if you need to.

    As many have said already, know thy neighbor. Try and keep a good relationship with them. When something happens you can escape to their place for help if necessary or they to yours. Last, when the S.H.T.F. don't go looking for trouble. Only leave if you need to. This keeps you out of the police's way and allows you to watch over you and yours.

    If you live in an area like these and you see incidences happen that *may* spark something off... go buy groceries before the protests, just in case. Better to have an extra week of food or so on hand than not have food because of something like this.

    About all I can come up with at the moment.
     
  17. xRangerx

    xRangerx Woods wandering bird nerd Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    YES! I appreciate you posting this, I have been thinking about what if something like this were to happen around here. So I found your observations and insights very helpful. I didn't think about the scenario with a neighbor asking to use a firearm, with the new laws in place in WA it is a felony to lend a firearm, thank you for bringing that to light.
     
  18. lobo9er

    lobo9er Scout

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    Baltimore and Ferguson in my opinion were manipulated riots. People bussed in to make sure chaos ensues... Theres a lengthy but worth watching video on YouTube called into the fire. Peaceful protests in Toronto turn to riots. But some there were filming and the camera shows an organized group that would rush in destroy and rush out and behind them would be police and media after they left. It really is worth the time to watch it.
     
  19. quietmike

    quietmike Hardwoodsman Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Dovetailed to that is people who have everything done for them, free housing, food, transportation, phones, etc. seem to be the most perpetually angry people.

    The DIY people like on this forum seem to be the most content in life.
     
  20. Sgt. Mac

    Sgt. Mac Elder Staff Member Administrator Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II Bushclass Instructor

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    Lesson learned from the recent riots is that the animals shoot and loot their own neighborhoods=Dont live with or next to animals and you're good to go. Grab a bag of popcorn watch the TV and giggle at their stupidity.
     
  21. S.Gossman

    S.Gossman Guide Vendor Supporter

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    I've lived in Maryland my whole life, born in Balto. city and lived in Balto. county until 1985, when we moved to northern Harford county along the Md./Pa. border. Balto. city has always been a dangerous and violent city especially in west Balto. where most of the rioting is happening. I remember the 1964 riots. Gangs and drugs have always had a presence there which adds to the problem. I feel safe living in a rural county because we have no problem shooting anyone who would try any violent act.
    Scott
     
  22. Shone

    Shone Guide Bushclass I

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    Thanks for posting this sanman. I will be reviewing my ditch kit and thinking about stocking some stuff at work.
     
  23. Doubles

    Doubles BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Nuf said
     
  24. Machine27

    Machine27 Ridicuously Good Looking Bushclass I

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    Cool thread.

    I know a lot of people into preparedness, discuss it often, etc. It seems that the one or the other attitude isn't only limited to knives and other gear. Everyone wants to focus on specific things and I try drilling into them that they need all their bases covered. You don't need only guns and ammo, or only cash, only silver, etc.

    I think it's important to be prepared in as many ways as possible.

    Weapons - Ammunition - Body Armor - Food - Water/procurement - Cash on hand - Precious metals on hand - wilderness survival skills - medical gear - medical training - combat training

    This seems like a lot...especially the training...BUT it really isn't. Just start with what you perceive as the most important and go with it. Before ya know it you'll be an EMT and know how to run and gun.
     
  25. Gumbi

    Gumbi Guide Bushclass I

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    I am seeing a consistent pattern here. By the time any disaster strikes, it is too late if you haven't already prepared. If you don't already have food, water, medicine/first aid, guns and ammunition, your ability to acquire them after the disaster takes place is next to nil and they will be in high demand for a while.

    Thanks Crazysanman, for your observations and advice!
     
  26. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Supporter Supporter

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    I'm thankful that I'm a hic from the sticks in rural Maine and every one has a shotgun or rifle behind the back kitchen door and have no such problems.
     
  27. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Yesterday during the day people were calling the police to report groups of teens using (presumably stolen) credit cards at gas stations filling up bottles, cans, and jars with gasoline. You won't see it in the media, but last night there were a lot of molotov cocktails thrown at police cars on the streets after the curfew, as well as a library and some houses. So many people throw things at the police and fire vehicles that they ignore it. If they stop to try to apprehend the person they get swarmed and beaten and their vehicle gets gutted and burned. If you re-watch the CNN or Fox coverage from last night you'll see yellow police tape hanging all over the city. That's all tape that was stolen from police cruisers. It's unknown how many firearms were stolen from the vehicles, but more than 150 police vehicles have been torched so far.


    Edit: One more thing -

    Yesterday there were protests in Bel Air, Maryland which is a good 45 minutes from downtown Baltimore. There were protests on the Eastern Shore, 3 hours away.

    There were also protests in Chicago and San Francisco and two nights of rioting and looting in Ferguson. These things can spread quickly in today's information age, and every new event has the risk of setting off nationwide rioting. Keep an eye on these events and be ready because you never know where the next one will start and where it will spread to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  28. MoraBob

    MoraBob Guide

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    Prayers and smoke for those affected by the "protests". I no longer trust that word when it is racially motivated. I fear that even though I live in Texas and we have the guns and rights to defend ourselves that I still live near DFW airport. There is Dallas, Irving and Arlington which flank the area I work and live in and if something either happened in Houston or DFW it could quite possibly affect me. Do we have the guns to fight back? Yes. Is there any good way to stop a mob from throwing rocks through your windows followed by molotov cocktails? Not really. Anyways if they pretend to just be protesting peacefully and turn violent once they are already in you midst there is very little you can do.
     
  29. chasntuna

    chasntuna Guide

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    One takeaway I got from this is in the event of any type of disaster, you've really got to think of the ripple effect and WHO is effected. The OP did a great job of this taking it all the way down to locksmiths and plumbers. It'd be safe to say, expect NO SERVICES to be available when any event like this or a natural disaster occurs.
    I'm in the heavy truck / equipment service industry and I can tell you, if this kind of crap goes down here, we likely won't be working. That means stopped OTR trucks, busses, refuse trucks, municipalities, power generation and the list goes on. It's hard enough to keep them going when everything is "OK". Throw in unrest and it goes to hell in a handbasket real quick. Everything we consume is on delay!
     
  30. team101

    team101 Banned Member Banned

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    I think this is a matter of mindset, not geographical location. I don't live in a rural setting, but agree with your method of addressing violence.
     
  31. S.Gossman

    S.Gossman Guide Vendor Supporter

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    Agreed team101. Preparedness and mindset are most important but the likelihood of this happening in a rural setting is lower. I feel the way I do because of my lifestyle. I have the skills and experience with firearms, edged tools and survival to handle problems like this that may arise.
    Scott
     
  32. Prairiewolf

    Prairiewolf Guide

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    Crazysanman brings up an important point here - we are into a new reality now where a perceived "injustice" in one city is enough reason to start rioting in any or all cities. Anti-gunners always say "just call the police-that's why we have police". Our country is getting a big wake-up call right now concerning the question "Who is going to protect me and my family?"
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  33. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Learn how to use social media.

    You don't have to Instagram and Tweet and Snap Chat every day, but know what they are and how to use them. Yesterday the local news channels - ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX - were "asked" by the Baltimore City police department and the Mayor's office to only show peaceful protesting and positive stories. All day they showed peaceful rallies, people dancing to live bands in the streets, peoplew cleaning up the mess, etc. No doubt it's good to focus on the good and this probably helped to keep yesterday relatively calm. But if you relied on this as your only news source you were left in the dark about what was happening elsewhere.

    If you watched CNN and FNC you saw a bunch of feel good stories and a few reports of violence. At 10pm when the curfew started you got to see one intersection in the city where police were lined up and dispersed the crowd with gas and pepper balls. After that the reporters stayed in that intersection and reported the city was calm.

    If you used social media, like I did, you got to see protesters and rioters live-streaming video from their cell phones as they ran around throwing bricks and bottles at the police. You could follow the hashtags #BaltimoreRiots, #BaltimoreLootCrew, #FDL, and a few others to see pictures and video on Twitter and Instagram and could read people's tweets for descriptions of what was happening, planning things that were about to happen, etc. Finally, if you have a scanner app on your phone or use a website like broadcastify, you can listen to the police and fire department radio traffic. The past two nights I switched the TV between CNN and FNC with the volume down. I monitored the Baltimore City Police and fire and Baltimore County Police scanners. I watched live streaming video from multiple people running around the streets. I followed numerous hashtags on Twitter and Instagram. I was getting updates on Facebook from friends and family who lived there, as well as from pages like "Baltimore City Breaking News" that mainly report on police and fire department activity in the city. I'd venture to say that even though I was 1700 miles away in my living room in Denver I had a better grasp of the overall situation in Baltimore than all of the media and probably the police department did. I was able to warn several friends of looting in their neighborhoods and in one case a friend of mine was unaware of looting three doors down from his house that I was able to warn him about. He lived in the city but several miles from the west side rioting and thought he was safe because the media was only reporting events on the west side.

    If you do nothing else, start a Twitter account and get the feel for using it. Hashtags, the pound sign (#), are placed before words or phrases without spaces to "tag" an item. Tagging is like listing the item in an index to search for later. Log in to Twitter and search for "#BaltimoreLootCrew" without the quotes. You'll see all kinds of people stupidly posting pictures of items they looted from stores, get alerted to stores acively being looted, and get to see people around the world chastising them for looting. Instagram uses hashtags also, so you can search for pictures and video of looting there with the #BaltimoreLootCrew tag.

    Search around and find resources and agencies in your area to follow on Twitter and Instagram to receive regular updates from them. In Baltimore, I follow the local ABC, NBC, CBS, National Weather Service, City and County Police and Fire, the State Police, County Sheriff's Office, the county and city emergency management centers, the local newspapers and community papers, and so on. You will get information much faster than by waiting to see it broadcast on TV or radio and it will be more focused to whatever area you are concerned with.

    Any local internet forums can be tremendously valuable. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a member of a forum for firearms in Maryland. That forum is not as friendly as BCUSA but it is more active. Every refresh of the main page shows 15 or 20 new posts. Of course there was a thread started for the riots, and in two days it has over 250 pages, 5100+ posts, and every refresh has multiple new posts. There are people there monitoring different scanner feeds and different news agencies so the information is all collected in that thread. That's how I learned about the ammunition and gun shortages and saw pictures of store employees removing ammo and knives from the shelves. The members include police, EMT's, and people from all walks of life so you get so much more insight than simply watching the local news.

    The firearm forum also started a thread for help during the riots. That is where the police have been asking for medical supplies. Because of the fluid nature of the riots, businesses are suddenly closing due to riots in the neighborhood or threats of violence. People have been able to arrange rides for their loved ones in case of those emergencies. Members are checking on the family of other members and so on. It's a tremendous resource for everyone in Baltimore City.

    So, learn how to use social media. In today's world it's an invaluable tool that really can save your life.
     
  34. egricheson81

    egricheson81 Scout

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    Yup
     
  35. Vilke

    Vilke Scout

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    I pray for those affected by all of this. I feel that there is always an element of any town that is looking for any opportuinty to just act out in one way or another. It does not take much to get these folks in an uproar and then they start their "civil disobedience", steal what they can, and then disappear into the shadows leaving a real mess for those who have to live in the area. Often, the looters are not from the neighborhoods that they tear up and are just seeking an opportunity to take what they can. It simply disgusts me that people feel that anything like this should be tolarated and my heart goes out to those stuck in this mess.

    After going through more hurricanes than I would like to admit, I keep my pantry stocked, I keep plenty of extra fuel on hand, and plenty of other security related items in stock at the house. I don't consider myself a prepper, just a concerned family man who understands that I may the one who has to take care of my own family's issues when a crisis occurs. I am always looking for the good in any situation and I try and learn something every time something like this happens and adjust my plan accordingly. I wish other would learn from these events as well but as many everyone seems to always have the mind set that "it wont happen to me". They probably are right, but what if they are wrong... I would rather have some extra stuff around that I may never use than be looking for something when nothing is available.
     
  36. Yellow Lab

    Yellow Lab Guide Bushclass I

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    Crazysanman - thanks for providing the actual story rather than the controlled media releases. The raw reporting during Katrina turned the stomach of most Americans as they wanted to view a few tough pics and then sip on their Starbucks latte.

    Even with this the media portrayed what they wanted to portray. Tons and tons of real life stories of citizens helping fellow citizens regardless of race, ethnicity, etc. How much of this was portrayed in the national limelight? Very little or nil.

    I do believe that if you live in an urban area, live in a storm prone location, near rivers, etc. it calls for some type of preparation. Having a weeks worth of food that can be easily prepared or precooked is great. I have used my old coleman stove during outages. I always have shotguns with plenty variety of shells available as one never knows what you'll need to do.

    Common sense should rule the day. Having the means to self-sustain for a period of time does not make one a whacked out-end-of-the-world survivalists. It makes for individuals who don't rely on others for their well being.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  37. Yellow Lab

    Yellow Lab Guide Bushclass I

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    Exactly my thoughts and beliefs. Thanks
     
  38. MASC1104

    MASC1104 Scout

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    I live in Northern Va, about a little over an hour SW of Baltimore City, and used to go there a lot over the last 25 years to the Inner Harbor (shopping, dining, etc), Fells Point (a pub district) and to watch the Orioles play (can't stand the Ravens tho). I stopped going there over 10 years ago and refuse to let my family go there either. It has the slang nicknames of Bodymore and Murderland for all of the killings and crime.

    Luckily nothing has started around here (Washington D.C. is just like 20 minutes away). I just ordered another 1000 rounds of .357 ammo on Monday and it should be here today or tomorrow. Also going to order the 12 gauge I have been putting off buying. I cant wait till I retire and the daughter is done with college and married off so I can get the heck out of this area.

    We do keep all of the innocents there caught up in that mess in our prayers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  39. chickasaw_hunter

    chickasaw_hunter Scout

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    When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!

    The day the Iraq war started, the Denver metro area had a major snow storm. The roofs of 267 homes and buildings collapsed. Because of the war coverage not much reached the news, and because of the storm most of the news trucks were stuck where ever they were, like the rest of us. We keep a supply of food and staples all the time. We were also lucky we live in an area with underground utilities so we did not experience any power outages, but many did and it lasted for days. The snow was so deep I had to shovel out a trail in the back yard so the dog could go out to pee. She would try to go out and just be stuck in the snow with her belly floating her on the snow and her legs unable to reach the ground or anything so she could walk. She was a lab so not a little barking dust mop. Anyway lots of snow and lots of disruption. Someone in my neighborhood called an ambulance so a snow plow led it in and in front of my house. I'd stayed up with the storm and shoveled several times during the storm so I wouldn't have an overwhelming task. So after the snow plow I had a clear drive but a four foot compacted berm of snow at the entrance to the street. That was a half day project because finding some place to put that snow was a problem. I had berms on either side of my drive higher than I could throw the snow. Like I said a lot of snow, the whole area was crippled. No worry of looting hordes though. After four days of being cooped up and the storm was gone, we needed milk and bread. So we ventured out to the store. That was a revelation, the local store was open, I'm not sure why they didn't have anything to sell. The shelves were empty the gas pumps shut down because they didn't have any gas. Resupply trucks hadn't been there in four days. It was then I learned that a normal grocery gets a re-stocking order on a constant basis, so the shelves can empty out very quickly, in a big storm or event. Also in disasters, like big wildfires, even if you're not threatened don't count on a cell phone. More than once I've been around big fires and the shear volume of calls trying to be placed thru the only tower available has been so great you can't get thur.
    I know this is a little off topic and not civil unrest, but related in that you still need to be prepared to take care of yourself and family for the duration of an event. Keep the vehicles gassed up, and some staples and food on hand. We now keep powdered milk in the freezer, our lesson learned. In the situation we had, if you were lucky enough to be home, there was no bugging out, just hunkering down and riding it out.
    Based on where you live there will be something you need to be prepared for, it might be hurricanes, earthquakes, fires, or tornadoes, so really no matter where you live you need to have some stuff on hand to take care of yourself. CH
     
  40. Fiddlehead

    Fiddlehead Scout

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    A good lesson on how things can get very bad very fast. Being prepared is just being smart.
     
  41. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    It is fine line between worrying too much about possible problems, and ignoring them with the "it can't happen here/ to me" syndrome.

    People on forums like this, and many firearms forums are proactive, and think about being prepared. The majority of other adults though seem to find it easier to assume that the police and others will handle any problems, so they can ignore the situation.

    Being prepared does not mean we have to own firearms, or stockpile food and water, etc. It does mean we need to evaluate those issues, and decide what is our most likely problem situation, and what we can afford to do to make that situation easier for our selves and our families.

    Food, water, and shelter are the basic necessities. It costs literally NOTHING to stock water in 2 liter soda bottles, or juice bottles, and two of those per person per day will handle emergency needs. It costs a little more for food, but a stock of beans, rice, oatmeal, flour, sugar and salt will get you by for a good while at a very low price. How much to stock depends on both space and budget limits.

    Medicine is the next critical element- both Rx meds and "first aid" meds. Having an extra 30 days of Rx meds is always a good idea, and basic first aid needs can be handled for a modest investment, if you know what you are planning to deal with. (Note- it always helps to know at least the basics of childbirth / delivery procedures. This one can hit you anytime, without warning. Don't ask how I know.)

    Our home is our logical shelter in most cases. If it becomes necessary to evacuate from it, being prepared for a quick and orderly loading of vehicles and having a planned route out of the area, with a planned safe destination all become good ideas. If it is impossible to evacuate, then it may be necessary to defend that home. In that case, weapons and ammunition become a consideration.

    Let me make a point here though. The lone homeowner heroically defending his domain with an arsenal of weapons is a fiction, a myth. first, no matter how many weapons you have, you cannot use but one at a time. Second, if you are attacked, it will likely be a mob- an unthinking mass of people, or else a deliberate looting raid. In either case, it is likely the single defender will be quickly overrun. As important as having a weapon might be, having friends and neighbors who can be trusted to help is also important.
    There is a long experience on the Gulf coast of looters after a Hurricane strikes. There is an equally long record of neighborhood "watch" patrols meeting and dealing with such looters. (And the National Guard traditionally has a "shoot on sight" order for looters.)

    Ferguson, Baltimore and other recent experiences should convince any thinking observer that bad stuff can happen, and the police and other emergency responders may be unable to protect you or respond to your emergency. Having at least some ability to deal with the situation yourself is simply part of being a responsible adult. Having even three days of assured food and water, and a way to keep your family dry and warm is very easy to achieve. Being prepared to leave the area quickly is more a matter of planning than of expense, and should be made a plan known to all in the family.

    Doing more than the basics is going to involve more planning, more expense, and possibly some lifestyle changes. One piece of advice, be very very careful about who outside your immediate family has knowledge of your plans or preparations. Parasitic "guests" can quickly wreck your logistics and leave YOUR family hungry.

    It does no good to try to convert those who refuse to see. Leave them to their own worldview. Disasters, both natural and man made, are a fact of life. They are going to happen, and anyone may be at ground zero for the next exciting installment of "Life as we Know it".
     
  42. WhisperInThePine

    WhisperInThePine Supporter Supporter

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    I've got enough guns, and two ammo cans filled to capacity, I'm not too worried about home protection. They are locked away with trigger locks on them all, and the keys are always with me not left int he house. None of my neighbors know I have guns. I always like to keep it that way.

    I too like the rural living for the peace. It's easier to bug out, and the Sangre mountains are a 10 minute drive away.
     
  43. Machine27

    Machine27 Ridicuously Good Looking Bushclass I

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    One cool thing about preparedness for me is that most of my hobbies fall into this category. Firearms, medical stuff, etc. I genuinely enjoy doing/using these things/skills.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  44. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    In Baltimore, one bar owner sat in the doorway of his bar with his dog and a shotgun. His bar remained unlooted but the businesses on either side of him got hit. There is a video of a man defending his store with a machete, and the looters walk right on by without harassing him. Another video shows a group of looters run into a liquor store and quickly run out empty handed. It was later learned that the store owner was inside with an AR.

    In the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict, the Koreans on their roofs with rifles kept their stores safe.

    The average looter or troublemaker doesn't want to fight it out building by building. They just want a quick score and won't stop to fight, they'll just move on to the next opportunity.
     
  45. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    New Yorkers - take note:

    http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2015/04/28/new-yorkers-with-baltimore-ties-warn-similar-unrest-could-occur-in-nyc.html

    [​IMG]

    http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28926801/solidarity-protest-for-baltimore-to-take-place-in-nyc
     
  46. MASC1104

    MASC1104 Scout

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    Same here. I am not even sure that they know that I fish, hike and camp as I always load and unload in the garage and "fence chat" doesn't include any of those topics. Unfortunately, I cant hide my bright orange mountain bike too well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015
  47. Machine27

    Machine27 Ridicuously Good Looking Bushclass I

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    A single defender isn't optimal for sure, but a semi automatic rifle with detachable mags is one hell of a force multiplier :D
     
  48. allfatherodin

    allfatherodin Scout

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    Wow, scary what some of you are dealing with down there. My thoughts are with you.

    I follow that "Occupy Wall Street" FB group (being that at first they had it right, imo), but since all these protests and riots, they've been going very much downhill. Every time people come out to "protest" now, these Occupy folks are labelling it "changing the world" and "revolutionary," while turning a blind eye to the looting and other chaos these plain criminals are doing while taking advantage of a situation. Sad how it's working out...
     
  49. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    I agree that a single man can often deter looters, if armed and ready. The problem is, he cannot deal with a "mob", and the flashover from "individual looters" to "Mob" is a terrifyingly fast change at times.
    Once you have to fire, it is a fairly even odds whether you run them off, or become a target. Mobs, though composed of human beings, have absolutely no human characteristics in their behavior.

    If the situation comes to shooting, then a lone defender is in deep caca, no matter how good they are. If it is a business, retreat may be an option. If it is your home, with family in it, it becomes a likely last stand. Far better to have friends and neighbors, preferably with interlocking fields of fire. :)

    Not trying to discourage anyone, just trying to encourage a realistic appreciation of what can happen, because if YOU go down, what is left? Your wife and kids trying to shoot back, and being exposed to hostile fire? Avoiding that is the whole point, to me.
     
  50. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Supporter

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    what i learned- to be more correct what i already knew from growing up in a very communist regime in the 80's ...is that when people riot or have a revolution..in this case riot ...you will have only 10-20% of the truth broadcasted on the news ...mostly because of censorship so other cities and ready rioters don't get riled up and start more riots and also because the news crews will not go in a hot zone ...couse they want to live ...to report another day ... -So This one WAS big !

    But the most important fact I learned, is that the Rioters also learned that the Law can't deal with big aggressive populous anarchy /riot situation -and they will not shot you just because you riot ...that will start a real $#!Tstorm nationwide and giving that fact they just burn and pillage without repercussions ...ok some will get arrested , but the Law will wait it out and count the losses/property damages = the next riot will be bigger,longer and bolder ,coming soon in a ghetto near you !!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015

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