Lessons Learned From teh Baltimore Riots

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by Crazysanman, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Jon Foster

    Jon Foster Guide

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    We do a large amount of work with local police departments and the officers/deputies. We go out of our way to make sure nobody ever knows who they are when in plain clothes.

    Jon.
     
  2. Roamer

    Roamer Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    I'd like to draw attention to an issue equally important to all of us in the Freddie Gray case, which is that his arrest was based largely on the fact that he was carrying a knife clipped to his front pocket, as many of us do every day.

    Baltimore officers first claimed it was a switchblade, and thus illegal. This was contradicted by the state attorney general, who responded that the knife was not a switchblade and thus the whole arrest was bogus in the first place. Cops replied that, in reality, the knife was "spring operated" and therefore illegal under a city code.

    I don't know anything about Baltimore knife laws (maybe a local can weigh in), but this strikes me as a cautionary tale for all of us who prefer to EDC various kinds of folding knives.

    Discuss... :44:
     
  3. Jasonacraft

    Jasonacraft Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    And not just where "you" live, but where you go too.

    Indiana has two knife laws, no "projectile" blades (can't shoot knives!) and no blades on multiple planes (no ninja stars). However, I go over to Illinois and Michigan pretty often and have never even thought to look up what the restrictions might be there....thanks for the reminder.
     
  4. Prairiewolf

    Prairiewolf Guide

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    I am somewhat jaded on the whole assisted opening thing. I had one of these pop open in my pocket (tangled up with keys, etc.) one time and got a pretty nasty gash on a finger. I have a few AO folders, but don't carry them much any more. There are so many regular folders that open so smooth and easy that AO seems unnecessary. Another mechanism that can fail.
     
  5. Roamer

    Roamer Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    This just out today in the Wall Street Journal, the first legitimate news story I've seen so far on the issue:

    Baltimore Police Case Homes in on Knife Found in Arrest
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/baltimo...on-knife-found-in-arrest-1430857232?mg=id-wsj

    In short, the exact type of knife carried by Freddie Gray is still in dispute, laws are in conflict, and nobody has yet released any photos or description of the knife in question.

    What is beyond dispute is that Freddie Gray made no threats with the knife, and there is no indication he carried the knife with any criminal intent. It was merely clipped to his pocket as part of his EDC just like we all do, a pocketknife carried for routine purposes the way Americans have done for centuries.
     
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  6. Long Hunter

    Long Hunter Scout

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    If you have ever checked your tire pressure before a long trip or grabbed an umbrella in case it rains later, you are a prepper. The spectrum ranges from that to full on doomsday annihilation scenarios, but they all have a common denominator - the ability to predict/anticipate/phrophecy potential deviations from the norm (trouble) and an attempt to deal with said deviations. Anyone can turn on the news and see someone somewhere suffering from climactic, civil, terrorist, political, infrastructure, or economic deviations.
    I was in Indiana during the blizzard of '78 and was able to walk right onto the roof from the snow. I was here during Andrew and several other hurricanes. I was in North Carolina during Hugo. I was in the towers on 10 Sept 2001 and have had a flat tire on an empty highway at night.
    You dont have to believe in pole shifts and solar flares destroying the earth and taking us back to the stone age, but you should be aware that we are 9 meals from problems and have a plan. Stock a little extra food on the shelf, grow a garden, learn to repair common items, learn to protect yourself, learn basic first aid and CPR, have a generator and extra fuel during hurricane/ice storm season, dont let your truck get below 1/2 tank during the same seasons, have a spare tire and a jack, carry jumper cables etc, form a network of like-minded trusted people, practice the grayman concept (opsec), get your head on right. Once you have taken precautions from the most common deviations your likely to face, you'll live a happier life knowing that if they do riot on your street or there is an Avian flu pandemic you will be covered or at least in a better position than if you were one of the sheep.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  7. backlasher

    backlasher Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I saw a map where ISIS had specifically targeted states to attack and I remarked at the time that they were all states with strict laws about who could get a gun.
     
  8. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Supporter Supporter

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    One lesson learned now that the riots are over, all the Orioles at my feeding station have all flown back home.
     
  9. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    The riots are over, but the problems they brought are not. Baltimore has, since the riots ended, had a spike in both homicides and shooting incidents, with IIRC 19 shootings over a two day period. These are signs that the breakdown in social order has not begun to heal, and in fact may continue to worsen.

    Have not seen a report on the Ferguson area, but I suspect the same situation prevails.

    What this means is that if you live in an area where riots and major disorder occur, there will be a long term aftermath effect that represents a danger to your property and your personal safety. Only you can decide iif the increased risk is worth enduring to stay within your area.

    There are a lot of major cities that do not endure high violence and crime rates on an endemic basis, and neither do most smaller cities and towns. Choosing where to live and raise your family is a form of preparedness, just like making sure your house is not ina flood plain.
     
  10. CaptainAhab

    CaptainAhab Scout Bushclass I

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    Just north of me in Kennesaw, GA, the denizens are required to keep a weapon at home. Kennesaw is full of prepping stores and the like. Very comforting to me, actually.
     
  11. Jon Foster

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    Detroit is a perfect example of this statement. My family owned several restaurants, truck stops and other businesses in Detroit for several decades starting in the great depression. The last place was closed in mid 80's. Detroit was a great place to be for a long long time. But as soon as the riots hit everything changed. The city was never the same after that.

    Jon.
     
  12. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    <http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/...ontinues-28-shot-9-dead-over-holiday-weekend/ >


    Local
    Baltimore Bloodshed Continues; 29 Shot, 9 Dead Over Holiday Weekend

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The violence continues. The pattern of social decay continues. Time to get out if you live there and you can find another place to live. This will be a long time before any healing takes place.
     
  13. Jon Foster

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    Amazing...

    The area we live in is pretty safe but all the police officers we know (we service the local police and sheriff departments) are all waiting for the day they will have to stay home to protect their families. They have been telling us it's coming for over a year now.

    Jon.
     
  14. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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  15. Boondock

    Boondock Scout Bushclass I

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    I saw that, too. The slaughter is starting to increase again. Might be another cruel summer in the city.
     
  16. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    At present there are two separate America's, one where the social compact is broken, and one where it still exists and works.

    The difference is not a matter of wealth, nor of race, nor even of which political party is in control, the difference is in the attitudes and beliefs of the common citizens.
     
  17. swamperdog

    swamperdog Scout

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    Very well said G1. Totally agree.
     
  18. Heirphoto

    Heirphoto Supporter Supporter

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    Add several more shootings in Baltimore just today. Latest was just a mile or two from my home a few hours ago. Farmer struck by gunfire while on his tractor in his field. This is a semi rural, quickly becoming residential area, Just getting worse here.
     
  19. Jon Foster

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    Funny, I've been getting a ton of flak on Facebook for commenting on the amount of violence during the riots. I honestly don't understand how people can truly believe they are owed everything. What happened to pride and hard work?

    Jon.
     
  20. xRangerx

    xRangerx Woods wandering bird nerd Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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  21. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Classic pattern of disruption. Those living in the area who have any choice should be in the process of selling out and getting out, as the area is sliding into a state of lawlessness and chaos. It cannot and will not recover until the citizens who live there put a stop to the outsiders coming in and inciting violence at every protest. If you organize a protest, KNOWING it will be used by those intent on insurrection, are you not complicit in their actions?
     
  22. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Time Outdoorsman Supporter

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    The actions of a few will cause the majority to move away to safer areas. These rioters and thugs will end up living in a burned out shell then beg the government for free stuff because they are destitute.

    It's like burning down your own house then crying because you have nowhere to live.

    Screw them all.

    Steve
     
  23. Polecat

    Polecat Polecat in a Poke

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    Or arming themselves to the teeth and lining up to protect their community from the thugs and vandals. That they aren't seems (in my mind) to make them sort of complicit, even if they aren't actually individuals who are doing any rioting or whatever. Expecting the government to protect their community instead of doing it themselves is no different than expecting any other sort of handout, imo.
     
  24. 87Burban

    87Burban Supporter Supporter

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    If we would just all concede, and let the socialists run things, everything would be just fine.

    Then we could all be comrades...
     
  25. Izzy

    Izzy Deceased.

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    If the good folks sell out and evacuate who wins? My home is meaningful to me, Ive worked hard to get what I have and Im not leaving it to be squatted in or burned down by the meek, socialist, rioters, who by the way are inheriting the earth.

    I see a lot of folks flying the "Molon Labe" flags and stickers and what not and I wonder how sincere they are. While I don't personally fly that label, to me it applies to my home and family's safety as well as my weapons. I aint going anywhere but to the roof and the hedges. :16:
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  26. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Lets not go down the conspiracy theory road here folks. The factual events are enough, speculation about "they" is just wasted breath.

    Izzy- when I see a semi barreling towards me in my lane on the highway, it does not matter that it is my lane- I can move or get run over. That is what I see as the situation in Ferguson, and likely Baltimore as well. Many of the good folks are already leaving. With the current atmosphere, you will not have many good law enforcement officers willing to stay, and fewer new ones willing to hire on when faced with the complete lack of support they have from their brass and city officials.

    If the good folks sell out and evacuate, clearly they win compared to staying and watching their home value depreciate more, seeing their good neighbors leave, and watching as crack dealers move into their neighborhoods, while the police presence shrinks and becomes ineffective.
     
  27. Jon Foster

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    Again, look at Detroit. It was such a great city many decades ago. Now it's a wasteland.

    Jon.
     
  28. Izzy

    Izzy Deceased.

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    Detroit is said to now be partially owned by Chinese real estate companies who bought when folks gave up and moved out . I don't know a whole lot about that city except from reading articles here and there but it seems its starting to rebound. No? Also, I can imagine how hard it must be to witness your beloved cities falling apart but I also just can't see giving up and becoming a refugee from my own community that I have personally had a hand in changing for the better to an extent. Maybe its just the stubborn fighting side of me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  29. riverrunner

    riverrunner Scout

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    Just across the river from Ferguson is East Saint Louis. It used to be a nice river town but bad things happened to the point that the city is toast. Down stream to Cairo, IL, that used to be a beautiful town. But Cairo fell victom to the riots of the 60s and went down from there with no recovery ever coming. If the BS protesting and violence is stopped, more cities will fall.
     
  30. Jon Foster

    Jon Foster Guide

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    I could be wrong but the riots we had in the late 60's seemed to be the turning point for Detroit. If there is true recovery starting that is a good thing. But it has a long way to go. And the other day they announced that Wayne county (where Detroit is located) is on the verge of bankruptcy now too.

    Jon.
     
  31. Mannlicher

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    threads like this are really a lesson in dancing. We dance around the real issues, try to stay PC, skirt what is really happening, and avoid the underlying causes.
    For a thread dealing with life, such as this one, it's actually gone pretty well.
     
  32. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Yes, nice to have a thread where no one is trying to stir the post or accuse others of being slavering fanboys or such. Helps immensely in keeping the laughter in check.
     
  33. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    The first court date for the six Baltimore Police officers charged with Freddie Gray's death is this Wednesday, September 2. The second date is September 10. These dates are to hear the pretrial motions from both sides in the case. These motions attempt to drop the charges, recuse State Attorney Marylin Mosby from the case due to conflicts of interest, and move the trial outside of Baltimore, among other things.

    The Baltimore City Police Department has cancelled all leave on those two days. The Baltimore City schools have been teaching all grades about the justice system and how it works hoping that the kids will realize the concepts involved and won't immediately riot if the city loses any of the motions.

    Many are saying that the City prosecutor is going to be embarrassed on these two dates and the defendants (the "Baltimore Six" police officers) will win most of their motions. It's going to be a bumpy ride in Baltimore and probably other cities also between the 2nd to the 10th and beyond, especially if any of the six police officers have all their charges dropped.

    Baltimore police prepare for Freddie Gray court dates

    Baltimore police cancel leave days during Freddie Gray hearings
     
  34. Lerch

    Lerch Bushmaster Bushclass I

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    I'll be watching to see what happens. We just relived the Ferguson mess for the "anniversary". I think Baltimore is in for a long run regardless what happens.
     
  35. Boston/shutesbury

    Boston/shutesbury Scout

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    Have any of the pharmacies or other stores been replaced?
    What do insurance companies do if there is cause for concern?
    Have arsonists been charged and prosecuted?
    Are people moving out the area?
    If I had to ask, I would already be fleeing.
     
  36. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    Here's a Facebook event for a protest of the trial. Unfortunately everyone who has commented has already decided the six officers are guilty and demand that the officers be indicted, convicted, and jailed. It looks like there will be more violence tomorrow.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1158985274115558/
     
  37. Ga_Nemo

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    Lived an hour SW (in the Old Dominion) of DC for 30couple years. Visited Baltimore alot. Left there a good while back. Will go nowhere near there now.

    If you think there were issues a few months back, if/when those cops are found not guilty watch the fecal matter impact the atmospheric motion initiator nationwide. As in sea to shining sea.

    Nemo
     
  38. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    This is the CVS that was looted and burned several times during the riots.

    [​IMG]
     
  39. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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  40. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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  41. isme

    isme Scout

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    It would be great if everyone else would learn from the mistakes made in Baltimore and other cities across the country. When you turn on the people who are trying to protect you ( yes there are some bad cops but very few) from harm. The people who would cause you harm win.
    It's the same thing the folks who carry a handgun for protection say about no carry areas. It's a group of victims waiting for some criminal to take advantage of them. The criminals no longer have anything to fear.
    Let's hope our country wakes up before it's too late.
     
  42. NCLivingBrit

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    Reap what you sow. Honestly I have zero sympathy for Baltimore. They're getting what they asked for.
     
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  43. 21355

    21355 Tinder Gatherer

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    The US military has tested and may be fielding a non lethal system called the Active Denial System.
    It is truck or Humvee mounted and looks like a large satellite antenna. Range is classified but I have seen it used at 800 meters.
    It is like a heat ray that feels like when you open a very hot oven with your face near it. It is harmless and has no lasting effects except you will do anything to get away from it. I have been a volunteer for it twice and it is effective.
    It can pick up a single person from a crowd to feel its effects and they get the hell out of dodge real quick.
    I have seen Recon Marines who said it was not effective last less than 4 seconds before they turned and ran to escape its effects.
    It was in the test phase when I saw it about 3 years ago. Don't know if it was ever adopted but it would be a very effective riot control device. It can target an individual or a whole crowd and send them running for the hills.
    It was being developed for defense at bases in the Middle East but could certainly be adapted for civilian use. Non lethal and effective and does not leave a mark or any after effects except you do not want to experience it again.
     
  44. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    That might help control a crowd, but it does nothing to solve the real problem. The officers no longer feel safe on patrol, and that makes them nervous. You get more mistakes, and much more of a blind eye to many offenses. Why would an officer chance being put in a position to have to shoot over a misdemeanor or even low level felony crime? He knows he will be labeled a racist pig nazi, and he knows his own chain of command will sell him out. He has no support, even if he is right in what he does. In a department like Baltimore, where a rogue prosecutor defamed and destroyed the careers of several good officers, what would be the incentive for staying there, much less hiring in as a new officer? You can make the same dollars in other cities where the police still have citizen and governmental support.

    Baltimore, Charlotte, Ferguson, Chicago, the list is long and getting longer. No conspiracy involved, just officers reacting to what they see happening- and choosing to go elsewhere if they can. Those who stay are keeping a low profile and trying desperately to stay out of confrontations, so laws are going unenforced.

    So far, here in Texas, Dallas, Houston and Austin are the only cities where the Ferguson effect is making serious inroads. Strangely all are Democrat run cities. Rest of the state is still pretty much pro police.
     
  45. remington79

    remington79 Scout

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    That's why the crime rates are going up in those cities. Because of the mayors and prosecutors leaving the officers out to dry the officers are now waiting for the crimes to occur and then show up. They aren't engaging in proactive enforcement anymore.

    I noticed in a lot of these cases they were quick to fire or prosecute and press charges. Where I used to work you'd be put on paid leave until the investigation was complete. Sometimes it would take over a month until the investigation was complete. In addition the investigations were always dont by a different agency. The cities in these incidents have been quick to jump the gun.
     
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