New Remington R-51 9mm

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Big_Bush, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. Big_Bush

    Big_Bush Banned Member Banned

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  2. HEMLOCK79

    HEMLOCK79 Guide

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    My wife is on the couch next to me. Thanks for that, now she found something to spend money on!:4:

    Looks like a cool little CCW gun. Wonder what they'll run. Bet they'd sell tons at $300.
     
  3. Bush Otter

    Bush Otter Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I would say this pistol deserves a good look over , sounds good.
     
  4. Overgrown

    Overgrown Tracker

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    It's a blow back single action so... it's a Highpoint with a grip safety? I'm kidding, but at $350 it's going to have a rough time beating out the competition in that range you have the Shield, CW9, LC9 etc
     
  5. J

    J Bushwhacker Bushclass I

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    Im waitin for the Glock 42.
     
  6. Big_Bush

    Big_Bush Banned Member Banned

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    That's the first .380 I've ever been even remotely interested in. It's gonna be sweet.

    Oh and not to get off topic in my own thread, but I won't be getting either gun because I'm sure they won't be on California's DOJ list of approved hand guns.....whine wahh wahhh:17:. OK I'm over it.
     
  7. Overgrown

    Overgrown Tracker

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    Everyone should own a PPK at least once in their life... just saying
     
  8. J

    J Bushwhacker Bushclass I

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    Ya im hoping for a 9mm version. The .380 will be cool though. Ive always thought Glock should make a single stack pocket 9 or .380. Im excited for it.
     
  9. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    That Remington would be interesting to work out side by side with a Ruger LCP and LC9.
    I much prefer 9mm to 380 for defensive carry, and the newer 9mm pocket pistols are now reaching the 380 size range that is so great for carry.
     
  10. Big_Bush

    Big_Bush Banned Member Banned

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    Not a legit PPK by any measure, but I had a knockoff Bersa Thunder for a couple years.....it's a long story.
    Anyway that had to be the biggest POS piss poor excuse of a handgun I ever had the displeasure of owning. I was thrilled when the original owner was able to put it back in her name and take it off my hands!

    But the PPK is no doubt a classic. I kind of like the R51 because it's based on a design from 1918, and some classic designs are just plain cool. I agree it's going to have a hard time competing with some of the compact 9mm's that have already been out there and have been proven to work. Just another option I guess.
     
  11. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    My initial thought was that this thing would be rather brutal to shoot, being a "blowback". But it isn't really a blowback in the way we normally expect. It's unique in design, and it does sound like the mechanism will absorb some of the recoil - similar to the Browning short recoil system we all know and love.

    I'm going to be looking for this piece to show up locally. It fits a lot of my "wish-list" specs in a concealed pistol, with none of the negatives I've seen in other options so far.
     
  12. 1066vik

    1066vik Guide

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    definitely looking forward to handling one of these -- price point should be pretty tolerable and I like the size & looks.
     
  13. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Scout

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    A nice trigger with a fixed barrel. It has the potential to outshoot all those you listed. It isn't quite the same rehash with a browning cam tilt barrel. Still seeing is believing and i'll wait until people actually get their hands on them.
     
  14. Roamer

    Roamer Guide

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    Bush: Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your Bersa .380. Maybe you got a dud. I love mine and it has proved totally reliable and accurate - and that's what I've generally heard from other owners. It's a great PPK clone for half the price and I highly recommend it.
     
  15. swissarmy67

    swissarmy67 Scout

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    It IS NOT a blowback.

    It's a fixed barrel, locked breach designed by Pederson in 1917.

    There is a cam actuated breach block in the rear of the slide.
     
  16. solidbrim

    solidbrim Tracker

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    My wife has been looking for a replacement for her TCP. This looks promising but I'm not willing to commit until some more trials take place.
     
  17. Bush Otter

    Bush Otter Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    The write up says it is a 9 MM and takes +P ammo .
     
  18. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Guide

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    saw that the other day. There goes my resolution to not buy any guns in 2014!!!!!
     
  19. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    From an article:

    R51-Detail-SlideAndBarrel_2

    The mechanism of the model 51 is unique and only used in one handgun and that’s the model 51. The layout of the Remington 51 is similar to the Walther PPK pistol in the use of a stationary barrel and recoil spring surrounding the barrel. However, the unique feature is the use of a locking breech block within the slide. When the pistol is in battery, the breech block rests slightly forward of the locking shoulder in the frame. When the cartridge is fired, the bolt and slide move together a short distance rearward powered by the energy of the cartridge as in a standard blowback system. When the breech block contacts the locking shoulder, it stops, locking the breech. The slide continues rearward with the momentum it acquired initially. This allows chamber pressure to drop to safe levels while the breech is locked and the cartridge slightly extracted. Once the bullet leaves the barrel and pressure drops, and the continuing motion of the slide lifts the breech block from its locking recess through a cam arrangement, continuing the operating cycle.

    Locked breech block, much stronger than a pure blow back operating system. Rated for 9mm +P.
     
  20. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Some time ago, I had an AMT DAO .380. It was a nicely-sized pocket pistol, and - lucky for me - mine was even reliable. But the all-steel pistol was a little painful to shoot, due to it's straight blowback design. The thing about simple blowbacks is that they have to use a recoil spring that is stiff enough to control that recoil without battering the frame. The little AMT managed to have both the stiff spring and a battered frame (it would certainly fail someday). Anyway - that system dictates that the recoil impulse goes right to the hand.

    BTW - I know that you know this, Grey One - but I thought I'd post this stuff for anybody who doesn't.

    I met a guy with a K-T P3AT at the range one day. He let me shoot that gun, which was slimmer and much lighter than my .380 DAO. I was impressed by the much softer felt recoil of the P3AT, and decided right there that the AMT's days were numbered. Soon after that, K-T brought out the 9mm PF9. I bought one as soon as they showed up locally, and immediately compared it with the AMt at the range. The AMT went up for sale the next week.

    The locked-breech (Browning Short Recoil System) design was more pleasant to shoot even with a more powerful load from a lighter pistol. That is the other benefit of the system, besides being stronger.

    If the recoil system of the R51 has the same effect, with no significant drawbacks - it's sure to be a winner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  21. jdm61

    jdm61 Banned Member Banned

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    Remember kids, the Browning system is not the only locking breach system still in use out there. It is just the one that caught on. As a matter of fact, there are several variants of the Browning system, like the multiple link of the 1903 and 1908 pocket pistols, the single link of the 1911 and the linkess system of the Hi Power. The Walther P-38 system that is also used on the Beretta 92 series is a fair bit different as was the H&K delayed blowback system.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  22. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Do you remember the ORIGINAL AMT 380 ? Single action, as small as a lot of 25 ACP pocket pistols, with a recoil and muzzle blast to beat the band. ;)

    The Remington 51 ( and apparently the newer R-51) are based on the Petter design. There was a French pistol, the M1935A in 7.65 long, that was a Petter patent design. It was a marvel of good, functional design, and had someone ever come out with a version in 380 or 9mm it would have been a very good seller I think.
    That ends todays history lesson. :)
     
  23. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Not to mention the rotary-breech Beretta PX4 and the (previously Beretta) Stoeger Cougar.
     
  24. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Yeah, I remember the SA AMT .380. A friend of mine had one. Almost as small as the little Beretta 950 Jetfire I got in a trade years ago, and later sold. Cute little useless (by today's standards, IMO) pistol. [edit]: the Jetfire, I mean. [/edit]

    Didn't know about the French M1935 - I'll have to look that one up.
     
  25. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Guide

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    Greyone, I believe that John Douglas Pederson designed the Model 51 while working at Remington . The Swiss designer, Charles Petter, along with Browning, had design influence with the French 1935 M and S pistols.
     
  26. Nick Adams

    Nick Adams Banned Member Banned

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    I traded for an AMT 380 years ago when they were still in business , would jam about every shot I sent it back to the factory and they sent it back with a new magazine. Still jammed some but not near as much. I didn't think it recoiled all that much, my PPKS was much more uncomfortable to shoot because it would pinch my hand no matter how I held it.

    With a low powered cartridge like this I wanted a good hollow point, read about this new super duper .380 bullet in some gun mag where the write shot wet phone books with it. The AMT didn't like them so I kept one chambered and hard ball in the mag, figured first shot would at least be effective
    I had a young colt with crooked legs that I had to put down so thought good chance to test these super .380 bullets out. put the Colt head over a bag of shavings and shot him in the forehead at about 10 inchs.Bullet went through his head and into the shavings. Dug out the bullet and zero expansion, could have reloaded it.
    I think I just never got the velocity needed , especially in such a short barrel, to expand the bullet. I stuck with the hard ball at least was more dependable and soon bought a compact 9mm and sold the AMT
     
  27. wmarhel

    wmarhel Tracker

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    It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Remington's quality has been sketchy for at least the past few years. New product roll outs are even trickier. There is also some good competition out there already.
     
  28. rimfire63

    rimfire63 Scout

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    FreeMe posted:
    "I met a guy with a K-T P3AT at the range one day. He let me shoot that gun, which was slimmer and much lighter than my .380 DAO. I was impressed by the much softer felt recoil of the P3AT, and decided right there that the AMT's days were numbered. Soon after that, K-T brought out the 9mm PF9. I bought one as soon as they showed up locally, and immediately compared it with the AMt at the range. The AMT went up for sale the next week."

    I have owned & carried a Kel-Tec P3AT daily for a couple of years. A lot of people dont seem to like them but mine has proven to be 100% reliable and very accurate when using quality ammunition.
    Its concealability is second to none. It is my constant companion.
    With that said, I like the looks of this Remington. Maybe the 'ol P3AT could use a little downtime.
     
  29. Ralph

    Ralph Scout

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    You all are saying $300-$350 where have you heard this? That puts it in the Bersa, Keltec et al pricing. I have thought about a Bersa in 9 or .380 the Keltec just looks to me to be a hand killer but would buy a Keltec for deep carry!
     
  30. jdm61

    jdm61 Banned Member Banned

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    The French 1935 M uses a Browning short recoil system, but instead of lugs on the barrel and slots on the inside of the slide, it uses the enlarged "breach block" and the ejection port. Those of you who own Sig-Sauer 220/226. etc pistols should be quite familiar with this simplified version of the Browning design because they use it. The Glocks use the same system and I do believe that both use the linkless "camming" setup like the Hi Power.
     
  31. 1066vik

    1066vik Guide

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    IIRC In the article it states an MSRP of $389 -- which should mean a street price of $350 or less once production is ramped up and they're actually on dealer shelves.
     

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