sleep/shelter system for daypack

Discussion in 'Sleep Systems' started by mtwarden, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    so what the heck do you need a sleep/shelter system for day hiking? :4: Well I recreate in some pretty remote country and there is always a chance of an unexpected night out. I've put together a pretty light and relatively inexpensive system that should get me through a unplanned night out.

    I had a gal at work sew up a Climashield Apex quilt for me- it's 2.5 Climashield so roughly rated to 50 degrees. It has two yards of Apex and about 4 yards of 1.1 ripstop (seconds)- about $25 in materials. Weight is a svelte 12.5 oz.

    I've teamed it up w/ a AMK/SOL Escape bivy- this is one of their newer offerings and differs from all the other bivies they offer in that this one actually breathes. weight is 8.5 oz and the quilt fits nicely in it, got it off ebay for $40

    I have a sit pad that I've incorporated into my daypack and then a scored (and folded) 3/8" 20x40" ccf pad- the sit pad weighs 1.5 oz, the pad 3.5 oz- probably $20-ish total

    I also have 5x8 silnylon tarp that weighs 8.5 oz, it was a second (just cosmetic) and paid $20 for it

    so a little over 2 pounds for sleep/shelter and very low volume, a little over $100 invested

    I always carry some additional clothing that would help w/ insulative value- fleece beanie and gloves, light down vest or jacket, rain jacket, with these clothing items and the above system, I should be relatively comfortable to about 40-ish degrees and alive much lower

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Burncycle

    Burncycle Tracker

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    Nice setup

    I'm the same way, my "day hike" pack is set up like an over nighter just in case I get stuck out someplace -- Grand Trunk Nano hammock, tarp, bug-net, and some sort of insulation (poncho liner or small sleeping bag if it's a cool night) all in my Vanquest 20
     
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  3. DogDays

    DogDays Scout

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    That's a well thought out setup, I really like it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. t.darrah

    t.darrah Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    My warm weather system is the same but different (and higher $);

    1) MLD SL Bivy @ 6 oz
    2) MLD Spirit 48 Quilt @ 12 oz
    3) MLD Monk Tarp (cuben) @ 6 oz
    4) Klymit Inertia X Lite Pad @ 6 oz
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  5. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Previous conversation has told me we think along similar lines but I don't actually have a dedicated mild weather set-up at the moment
    Perhaps I should make another one separate to my hunting pack
    Is the SOL Escape bivvy really worth considering ?
     
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  6. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    Thom- Nice kit! I still have a higher end (replete w/ lots of cuben) setup :) it's usually reserved for overnighters; this one gets packed a lot more as I day hike a lot more than do overnighters

    Moondog- this kit resides in my hunting pack too, nice to have a little insurance policy if I'm late (and lucky) getting an elk out

    yeah the Escape is much different (and better) than all of their other offerings- their other bags/bivies simply don't breathe at all and while they hold some heat in, you're likely going to be very damp

    I have an eVENT bivy (top), cuben (bottom) that's really nice, but at a significantly higher price- the Escape is much more reasonably priced- lower volume and lighter, perfect for throwing in a day pack
     
  7. t.darrah

    t.darrah Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Adventurous day trips or planned overnighters my summer kit stays the same (only the pack size changes). For long day trip adventures I use the MLD Core 1300 and for planned overnighter outings the Core 1700. I also have the eVent top/cuben bottom MLD Soul Bivy that gets used for colder and wetter adventures.
     
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  8. Jason Herman

    Jason Herman Tinder Gatherer

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    Have you ever slept in that configuration and if so, how was your experience?
     
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  9. IA Woodsman

    IA Woodsman Overwatch Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator Vendor Bushclass Instructor

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    Love this system. I have been trying to lighten my load as well. Threads like this are great. Thanks.
     
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  10. NWPrimate

    NWPrimate Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    You will be so glad that you put this together if you ever get stuck out longer than you planned. I just have one of the the little AMK emergency bivvies but I think your post is going to put me over the edge and get me to upgrade one of these escape bivvies for this purpose.
     
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  11. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    Thom- I have the same two packs :)- the 1300 pictured above is X-Pac, it was a small special run Ron had for a short time- makes a great hunting/off-trail pack day pack, didn't add too much weight, but lots tougher stuff and with seam sealing near waterproof

    only once, it was a pretty mild night- guessing it was upper 40's and it was cozy- a little condensation, but acceptable; I think it would be fine into the lower 40's- much below that I'm thinking it would start getting a little chilly

    the gal at work said she would be build me another quilt, so I ordered some 3.6 Apex (and more ripstop)- 3.6 should be a solid 40 degrees, with the bivy and extra clothing near freezing- I'll throw this quilt in during fall and winter outings; I'm guess the quilt will still be sub 16 ozs (or very, very close)
     
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  12. t.darrah

    t.darrah Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I've used and slept in the configuration listed many times, I've been very pleased with overall performance!
     
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  13. mbiraman

    mbiraman Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    Good kit. I'm in the same situation as you in that i hike alone and in area's where others don't go. Been working on lightening my load for day hikes which for me, where i live, usually means more $$ over the internet. Having had fails with bivy's in the past i'm reluctant to go there but i'll have a look at the Event offering. I made an Apex quilt a couple of years ago, very light. Haven't turned it int a poncho like the HPG unit but may still do that yet. Thanks for posting.
     
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  14. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    OMG That bivvy is $140- here, I can't afford that
    I think I'll stick with what I know works reasonably and what I use for my winter kit at half the cost
    http://www.terrarosagear.com/sleeping-covers
    It's the same thing I use as a partial VB liner when it is really really cold
     
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  15. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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  16. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    That's an impressive setup, a low-cost *and* lightweight *and* low bulk shelter system. This made me think (which is always good, if sometimes distracting) about a few things:

    - if low price was not a consideration, I think something like the Gatewood Cape could be a significant improvement in protection from the elements when (if you're using this kit) you're most likely to be hunkering down. Mainly because it can provide a more enclosed shelter for those extra 4oz over a 5x8' flat tarp (at least for all of the tarp configurations I know).

    - are you intentionally looking to boost sleeping warmth with this system by using the reflective AMK bivy, versus a non-reflective bivy (like what t.darrah mentioned)?

    - how would the breathable AMK bivy work with down insulation? On my in-the-far-future wish list is an ~19oz 0*F down top quilt, which again, does not optimize for a lower price, but may not be too bulky to put into a daypack, and would be an awesome improvement in overnight comfortably.

    I like the discussion happening here: you have a low-cost, mostly backup gear option, and t.darrah has offered the comparison of a high-cost, but "so lightweight that it's easy to bring on a dayhike" primary overnighter gear.
     
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  17. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    A lot is to do with our 10% GST and that the Aussie dollars is now only worth $US 0.70
    Thinking about local conditions a mosquito net might be more important than warmth sometimes but No-See-Um mesh is only 23 GSM so a even a full netting cover with support strings would only add about 200 grams
     
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  18. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    the Gatewood cape is a nice looking piece of kit; it doubles as rain gear so multi-purpose too; but as you point out quite a bit more expensive than a simple sil flat tarp

    the Escape bivy does boost temps a little more than a "normal" bivy, but mainly chosen for cost and the fact that it's going to get knocked around some

    there is some condensation w/ the Escape, but would probably be fine with down; Apex chosen for cost and knock around appeal

    I have a very similar setup to Thom, but I usually reserve it for overnighters- it's a pricey setup and while not delicate, I'd rather have this less expensive setup when I'm bushwacking through timber, scrambling in granite, etc


    a simple headnet- about an ounce, would probably do the trick in my neck of the woods- for really buggy environs you're probably right, a full enclosure would be worthwhile
     
  19. t.darrah

    t.darrah Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    The gear listed is not inexpensive but being of highest quality the cost is well justified. All the items are starting summer number three in my kit rotation and showing little if any sign of wear, a solid investment for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  20. Woods Walker

    Woods Walker Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I do the same thing but often pack my Equinox Siltarp with extension rather than my MEST or ID SilTarp 1. Don't get me wrong both of those are great and see time in the woods but the poncho with extension is longer and more multi function. Still any tarp is so darn useful. I almost want to do a thread on knife vs. poncho/tarp for pure day pack usefulness but fear it will be taken the wrong way as some have strong feeling about knives. Also too much this vs that online already. I have a UL DWR top, Silnylon bottom Bivy and a SOL (gotten before the company changed it's name to SOL) bivy as well. On a side note I am uploading video and pics of some bug net under poncho/small tarp commercial solutions as do like to sleep under them but hate bugs. Will post a thread on that tomorrow. I had some bad experiences using just a bug face net mask though also have a few of them.
     
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  21. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I think we'd all agree that everybody should carry something; and that the "Something" should be a little better than the usual foil casualty blanket and a bandana.
    But we are all either old boy scouts or amongst the converted aren't we?
     
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  22. Jean

    Jean Guide

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    Have you'll considered 'hot tenting' it?

    I tried the Palmer Furnace concept a few more times this winter -- never a full night out but one candle's worth each time.

    Previously, I had tried it with a east european surplus poncho thing and it worked well with a mini-candle lantern ( the tea light kind); it was too hot with the full sized ECO one. Someone else here had a similar experience.

    This winter I tried it at freezing to high 30s and windy, up in WV with the following:

    Sit pad, casualty blanket and USGI Poncho with both the mini-candle lantern and a beeswax candle stub/blob thing, both worked and I was scavenging heat to the point light blowing snow was melting on contract with the poncho. This combo is a bit heavy, north of 2lbs, but both big pieces are multi-use items. I tend t have the sit pad and casualty blank with me all the time. I propped the inside of poncho up a bit with a handy stick, but I doubt the poncho would catch fire easily with a tiny candle flame.

    I tried it with just the casualty blanket and sit pad, but couldn't get a decent wrap - wind seal to make it work.

    Another night, more snow - less wind; I tried it with a sit pad, trap (diamond pitch with ends folded in) , and an AMK 2p heat sheet that had been knocking around for a few years in my PSK and had wear spots on the corners. Worked with both the little candle blobs and the mini-lantern. Still around 2lbs, as it was a 10x10 tarp.

    I keep intending to try it with just a contractor trash bag and the same with a cheap-o emergency blanket. I could save a lot of weight with a modern poncho, but haven't had much luck with the super-light ones keeping me dry when used as intended. I'm getting 2.5hrs of heat out of the candles, so you gotta reload at some point. The mini-lantern is worthless as a light source, but makes me feel safer under the plastic than an open flame. There wasn't much condensation -- your head is outside with some setups and the tarp setup had a lot of ventilation. I think this system will work better then an insulation layer if you are already cold and wet. Here on the east coast, if I get my butt in a sling, I am likely to be wet as well as cold. Back in Utah, not so much.

    This approach saves some weight and time finding a spot by not laying down. Sleeping sitting up tends to work better with my back unless I find an excellent spot to lie down. YMMV.

    I've got a new 2p heatsheet and 5 beeswax candle blobs in my PSKs. I added a small piece of foil to put under the blobs. I think that will extend them a bit. I'm now out of the beeswax blobs because mice got into the bag in the basement and can't find the website of the guy making them -- I'm almost certain I found them thru this site.
     
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  23. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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  24. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    Great minimalist set-up for an unplanned overnight. Also have seen your ultra-light weekender kit spreadsheet - amazing! Love these minimalist threads and ideas that come out of it.

    Here's my spin on the theme, with the Gatewood Cape mentioned above, but it's more for planned overnights. Not nearly as cost efficient, and a pound heavier @ 3lb 3oz, but it does includes rain gear, a full bug net, and arguably, a bit lower temp rating sleeping bag. The "kitchen" shown is another 1lb 2oz, incl. fuel for boiling ~1 gal. of water (or inebriating a couple folks).

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Jean

    Jean Guide

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    I dont know how I missed that thread. I think this a technique that requires practice.

    I still haven't seen those AMK poncho's in stores. They look bigger than pocket sized online.

    I found the beeswax candle stubs, I don't think this is where I bought them, but its a well known site:

    http://www.bestglide.com/bees_wax_survival_candle.html
     
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  26. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    Reppans- nice setup! Gatewood cape looks very nice :)

    Jean- the AMK/SOL poncho is pretty nice for a very minimal kit, same material as their Heatsheets- which is fairly durable- doubles as emergency rain wear
    I've been using the Exotac slow burn candles, both the Nano and small sizes
     
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  27. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Supporter Supporter

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    Nice outfit, Here's mine, USGI poncho and space blanket in my Finn GM day pack to make a Taco wrap for unexpected overnight under a quick brush shelter. This is basic unexpected over night gear, comfort factor will be low and you will only be cat napping anyway.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
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  28. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    ^ weather out, warmth in :)
     
  29. Hasco

    Hasco Supporter Supporter

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    This is a great thread! I would like to try and make a climashield apex quilt like that. I am wondering if you have any tips on where to get materials or diy instructions.

    Thanks!!!
     
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  30. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    you bet :)

    here's the instructions I (actually she :4:) used

    https://kringlelight.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/sin50_guide.pdf

    you can Climashield Apex from here:
    http://thru-hiker.com/materials/insulation.php
    or here:

    https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/insulation

    roughly 2.5 equates to a 50 degree quilt, 3.6 40 degrees and 5.0 30 degrees

    you can get the ripstop nylon (and other little bits) here:

    https://ripstopbytheroll.com/pages/fabric

    or here(looks like they have 3.6 Apex too):

    https://diygearsupply.com/
     
  31. River Yeti

    River Yeti Tracker

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    How is the durability of the Escape bivy? They don't strike me as something you could get more than a couple uses out of, but I've not actually used one so I wouldn't know for sure.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
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  32. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Does durability really matter too much in what is essentially an emergency use item?
    But if it is as tough as soft structure Tyvek I would guess it is durable enough for many uses, I've been using my Tyvek SB cover for 4 years and about 100 nites so far
     
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  33. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    pretty durable; barring a big hole/tear- I think you could easily get dozens of nights out of it
     
  34. t.darrah

    t.darrah Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Tyvek can be used for MYOG projects, I've done multiple no sew tyvek bivys.
     
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  35. Cheapeats

    Cheapeats Guide

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    Summer time it is a heavy duty red trashbag we use these at work for disposal of dead fish to being sent to the crematory a space blanket and a small fleece throw and a few chemical hand warmers for shelter I have a civilian version of the army poncho in red, and a crap load of cord. For winter months I add a poncho liner. I am generally never more than 5 miles from my car,
     
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  36. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter

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    Mtwarden- I really like your SOL Poncho idea for a minimal kit. Nice review and write up.

    I have a SOL Escape Bivvy. Its a awesome product, durability is good for multi use and it is very light weight.
    I paired mine up with a Snugpak Jungle Bag for a emergency kit. Its biggest advantage of the Escape Bivvy is the size and the ability to keep it compressed.
     
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  37. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    If you're making a quilt, consider this Kifaru Climashield Apex Woobie Express (now discontinued) as a template. Like the Gatewood Cape, it's dual purpose covering both insulated poncho and sleeping quilt. Far warmer than an equivalent weight down jacket (1lb) due to the "mitten effect" (sitting Indian-style, all limbs inside). Add a UCO candle lantern in the protected triangle of your legs in that same position (Palmer furnace) and it's toasty down to ~0F.

    I pair it with my above post (inside my 45F sleeping bag) for ~25F nights, and of course, it negates the need for a separate down jacket.

    Old picture:
    [​IMG]
     
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  38. Hasco

    Hasco Supporter Supporter

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    Man, this is so great!! I am going to try this (with the help of my wife who actually knows how to sew:4:).

    Thanks so much!!!
     
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  39. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Reppans your post just reminded me to put the UCO lantern in my winter day bag
    Thanx
     
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  40. River Yeti

    River Yeti Tracker

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    I think it does matter. He impies that he has used the setup several times. Does he need to purchase a new bivy every time he uses it, or does he re-pack it and plan to use it for another emergency use later? Sounds like it can be used multiple times, which is good to know.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
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  41. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    I think this review of the Escape bivy might be relevant for the durability question about it:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  42. mtwarden

    mtwarden Supporter Supporter

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    good video :) I disagree with his temp rating; I sleep on the warm side and without the light quilt ( even w/ it) I would have frozen at 32 degrees; alive, but damn cold!

    I also like his mod, the bivy fits me, but if I was any bigger I would definitely consider modding it. I wonder if tyvek would be a better choice than a reflective tarp though- still water resistant and more breathable, maybe he chose it for the reflective material???
     
  43. jaffcat

    jaffcat Tracker

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    You guys should check this out.... I've brought one, but it's unused as yet...
    Bigger than the SOL and has tie outs for use as a shelter.

    http://www.2gosystems.com/products/trifecta

    Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk
     
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  44. remington79

    remington79 Scout

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    I like to hike to and am always by myself. I'll show my wife where I'll be on a map and when I should be back. The last few years I've been having medical issues act up so needing an overnight kit is important. If the issue was to occur I wouldn't be walking that day and the next day. I wouldn't even be able to set up a tarp. Because of this I take a Kifaru Woobie that has combat Climashield and a USGI bivy. I like how the SOL is lighter but it doesn't have much in the way of a zipper. It's too short and will be too hard for me to get inside. At some point I'll add a MEST but I'm going in the direction that I'm immobilized.
     
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  45. Black Bison Outdoors

    Black Bison Outdoors Tracker

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    Like the ideas
     
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  46. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    You should seriously look into a satellite communicator like the Delorme Inreach. Plans at $15/mo will provide a lot of peace of mind and 2-way comms anywhere in the world.
     
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  47. remington79

    remington79 Scout

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    I've thought about it. If I get around to upgrading my GPS I was thinking about the Delorme just because of that. Last I heard you needed a smart phone and I don't have one right now. For now I do tell my wife where I am and directions to the trailhead. I tell her if she doesn't hear from me by midnight that she is then to call for help. (this is for day hikes) I know its not perfect especially if it is an overnight hike. At least I'm more proactive and better equipped and prepared than probably 80 to 90 percent of the people on the trail.

    It's less expensive but I even thought the SPOT would be of use. It doesn't have a button that you can use for a pre-recorded message so at least you can check in and say you're late but are ok. I forgot about the InReach since I've been looking at switching to Garmin for my next GPS. It's just the initial capital that needs to be spent first.
     
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  48. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    Yeah the Inreach needs the map functionality to work as a real GPS and so needs the smartphone for that. Course smartphones and apps are so good now, you can simply use that as a stand alone GPS (no cell service required). Garmin now owns Delorme, so it's probably just a matter of time before we get the fully integrated GPS/Satcom in one handheld unit.

    I'm like you in that I usually do adventure travel alone, and now have a potential medical condition that can disable me in the woods (just a bad knee though). For that, reasonably priced 2-way comms are a must for me as I'm much more likely to request a taxi to a pick me up at the next trailhead, than have the S&R cavalry come in with helicopters. I'm also a motorcyclist and RV enthusiast and have had electrical/mechanical breakdowns in remote locations where 2-way comms are the difference between an annoyance, and a huge PITA. And lastly, I still have a feisty teen at home and so may need to be summoned home on short notice.

    Satcom seems pretty expensive considering the initial cost and monthly service, but for me and my mid-50s aging body, when the alternative is simply not to go, the cost seems like a drop in the bucket.

    FWIW, I've had a Garmin 60csx handheld for ~decade and now only use it for road nav (motorcycle, RV, car)... iPhone and Gaia App, or Inreach and Earthmate App have replaced it for the trail.
     
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  49. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Guide

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    I carry a small 5X7 BCUSA tarp, and a space blanket in my day pack. It makes a great sun shelter when stopping for lunch in an area with few trees, and it's always there if I need to over night. Don't really need much other than that.
     
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  50. Self Reliantist

    Self Reliantist Scout

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    WOW, when did that happen?

    Norm
     
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