What is THE BUSHCRAFT KNIFE

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by The Hunter, Aug 14, 2010.

  1. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    I am curious to know how others define a "bushcraft" knife. I define the Bushcraft knife as a tool with a 5-3" blade and 5-3" handle, Drop, clip, or spear point. 1 1/4 - 3/4 wide and 3/32 - 3/16 thick. Scandi, convex, flat or hollow grinds are fine

    IMO a bushcraft knife must be able to preform craft needs, skinning, traps and triggers, fire sticks,preparing my meal,etc. Not chopping wood( not meaning the splitting of small branches for a fire), hunting bears, blazing trails or building log homes.
    [​IMG]

    I typically make knives that I would use and that work very well for my bushcraft needs and knowledge. This the normal outline or blank I make to begin a new bush knife. I like it because after hours of of using many knives this is the most comfortable in the hand and on the hip.I am not saying that a bushcraft knife must look like mine either.

    So if you are a knife maker (amateur or professional) let me know what you think a bushcraft knife is and is not, and what shapes you like and why.

    If you are a user of a bushcraft style but not a maker plz say so and let me know what you think a bushcraft knife is and is not, and what shapes you like and why.

    I am also placing this on 2 other forums just to see what answers I get. If you comment on any of them please dont duplicate your response on the other 2 forums. Dont want the "jedi mind trick" coming into play as some ppl have more sway with their comments.
     
  2. riley

    riley Scout

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    honestly i believe what ever knife you use for bushcraft is a bushcraft knife. If i was to pick it would be a mears clone. or one i made. I prefer drop point, convex, carbon, and about 3 to 5 inches.
     
  3. SpookyPistolero

    SpookyPistolero Scout

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    Oooh, I really like the proportions on that handle. Very nice.
     
  4. Jason

    Jason Founder Staff Member Administrator Bushclass I

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    For me:

    4 inch blade, scandi or convex, carbon steel, about 4mm thick whatever that comes to

    But you use what you got if if works for you.
     
  5. Amator

    Amator Scout

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    I think of a Mora, Woodlore, or something along those lines. Like Koa said, 4-5" blade, scandi or convex, carbon steel.

    To me the big Beckers, Busses, Trailmasters, Kukris, Tracker Knives, etc are more Bushwacking than Bushcraft. They're kind of like using a chainsaw to carve a fuzzstick. Not that they don't have their uses, but they're not really a craft knife.
     
  6. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    The Bushcraft knife is, to my taste as a "user not a maker", from 3' to 7 or 8" blade length. I go to the longer length because of the Finnish Leuku style, which I have found very versatile.
    The Leuku blade also has a bit more depth, and a medium thickness spine. I can carve with it at need, and it is an awesome game knife.

    The smaller range of blade- 3 to 5 inch, are light, easily carried and versatile. I however have a large hand, and many of them are designed so that the small grip area cramps my hand. I have just gotten a Turley Dogwood with a bit larger -longer- grip, and it is a revelation. It has a thick spine, 4 1/4 inch blade, and a fairly deep belly, and approaches my current ideal of an all around blade style.

    The design you show above is well within my set of preferences, but I would need at least a 1/2 inch longer hilt. :)

    I find that the longer hilt is still usable by those with smaller hands, and it makes my grip much more comfortable. It might be an option worth having, for those who need it.
     
  7. walkabout

    walkabout Guide

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    "IMO a bushcraft knife must be able to preform craft needs, skinning, traps and triggers, fire sticks,preparing my meal,etc. Not chopping wood( not meaning the splitting of small branches for a fire, hunting bears, blazing trails or building log homes.)"

    perfectly put! nice design you got working there as well.
     
  8. Ironwood

    Ironwood Guide

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    Good question and one that has been on my mind since I am wanting a good bush craft knife.

    I am always keeping my eye open for the perfect bushcraft knife blade style. I feel it is a little longer and wider than what you are describing but something we rarely see from knife makers or manufacturers.

    If I was a knife maker (and I plan on pursuing the trade as time and money permits) I would say a blade of about 5 to 7 cutting inches long, 1 and a half inches wide and a little thicker than what is typically seen. The Tom Brown Tracker is 1/4 inches thick probably more than is needed but many are not thick enough. 3/8 of an inch would be good. Has to be full tang and have solid scales of hard wood or micarta or other tough as nails material.

    So far the P Moore T-Rex is pretty close to the perfect bush knife. I like the Fallkniven survival knife but would like to see it a little beefer like on steroids as mentioned above for the perfect bush knife. Its like all the manufacturers skimp on the steel and size width and length.
    What I am trying to say is there is an intermediate knife size between the typical cold steel, fallkiniven, mora or other and that of the large kukri or bowie or machete style of large knives that hasn't been seen too often that I feel would make the perfect bush knife.

    I bought a Kershaw Outcast a while ago and while not the best knife in the world, I feel it is great for certain things but it is too big overall for the ideal bush craft knife.
    A scaled down version of that knife would be cool, or a scaled up version of the typical smaller hunter or skinner or spear point knives typically seen would be good.

    I know this was long winded but you asked:D Something I am pretty passionate about. This is why I want to someday make what I think is the perfect bush knife.

    cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  9. Otakop67

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    My Idea of a Bushcraft Knife

    I'm a simple man who likes to keep things simple. For me any knife has the potential to be a bushcraft knife as long as it meets a few criteria.

    1) Will it's weight or size be a hindrance to your moving in the bush (weight makes it burdensome or constantly gets snagged in thickets)?

    2) Can it be easily sharpened to a good edge in the field?

    3) Is the grip solid in YOUR hand (not the maker's) without sacrificing comfort (a knife is no good if it hurts to use it)?

    4) Is the blade solidly attached to the handle / scales (no movement whatsoever)?

    5) Do you have to mortgage your house to buy it (will you be suicidal if you loose / break it)?
     
  10. pitdog

    pitdog Guest

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    This works for me :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    By pitdog2010 at 2010-08-04
     
  11. CarneyC

    CarneyC Guest

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    As a knife user I prefer a slightly larger blade. Yes, the T-REX is perfect for me, I don't believe that there is a universal "Bushcraft" knife though. Some would swear on a Mora, while others would say that they are to small or flimsy. Whatever works for you, use it!;)
     
  12. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    It is in my nature to question and observe. Many good points by all and I was interested in Grayones's post.

    A bushcraft Knife will be different to everyone based on your wood skill and knowledge. I am only asking for what others think a bushcraft knife is not what one compared to mine is.

    I am not a professional maker nor ascribe to be. I am however resourceful, intelligent and tenacious.

    Ironwood I have that knife already just as you described. It is currently my go too knife till I finish this one. 5" blade 3/16ths thick 1.5 wide
    [​IMG]

    Grayone I have very large hands (size 15 ring) not short and fat but big and wide. I find the handle in question to be very comfortable especially with hard use. My daughter prefers this same proportion for her knives as well.
     
  13. CarneyC

    CarneyC Guest

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    EA, I love that blade my brother!
     
  14. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    Maybe later in the year I can arrange for you to have one to give me feedback on.:D We are pretty close geographically. Of course the tester gets to keep it if they want it :eek:
     
  15. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    I have a very wide and thick hand- palm is about 4 1/4 inches wide, about 2 inches thick at base, and 7 inches from base to fingertips. It makes for a cramped grip on some hilt designs. :)
     
  16. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    LOL we could start the League of heavy handed heroes lol:D
     
  17. Dano

    Dano Banned Member Banned

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    I was a bigger-is-better follower until I read about puuko, leuko, woodlore, etc designs and origins. One of the best things I've learned (for me) is their thinking on the blade lengths. Laying the knife blade across one's palm, it should be no more than 1/4" longer than the widest part. This is for accuracy, control, safety, etc. Since trying this out, I have found knives to be much more of an enjoyment to use and tasks easier to complete. These recommendations are for belt type/first use knives, not for choppers obviously.

    I'm just at the tinker stage, but hope to progress as time allows. To answer your question, for me it is the knife in which I place the most trust. I have found as I experiment, I have changed blade shapes, but am a strong convert to convex (not to open that war again, LOLOL)
     
  18. swamprat

    swamprat Guide

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    Erratus I really like the style of your finished knife. The drop point has always been my favorite style.
     
  19. Solphilos

    Solphilos Guide

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    Personally, I don't limit myself to one blade, as no one knife will excel at everything I use them for. A great carving knife will never be a great skinner; a great skinner will never clean a fish (not with ease anyway). Some knives are jacks-of-all-trades, and can cover most bases, but will always compromise in some areas.

    For me, I'll take a Mora for light carving, and a Green River skinner for everything else. That way, I make no compromises and have all of my needs met.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2010
  20. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    swamprat you know its been hot here and in between cooling off breaks I have both the tapers cut using the file. Got to drill the tang and wait till dark to run the forge and get her hard.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. desertp1

    desertp1 Scout

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    i am a user not a maker. i think that a kephart is the basic bushcraft knife. most other knives are about the size of a kephart.
     
  22. walkabout

    walkabout Guide

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    You touch on a very good point bud, FIT! as a few others posted about having big mitts it is absolutely critical to make sure your blade fits YOU, what works for me may not work at all for you, but getting bush time with a few good blades of varying sizes in your prefered blade stlye is a must to end the rat race for yourself, for example i tried many knives in my quest for the perfect bush knife from three hundred dollar customs down to ten dollar productions, i settled on the green river camp knife with the Blind horse kephart(bushcrafter)coming in a very close second for excellent fit and style to my technique of bushin' it, mostly because of they way they fit my hand, there was no bushcraft USA around when i started "trekkin hills" or mayby i would of been able to save myself a few thousand clams messing with cutlery! great post by the way.
     
  23. Mummichog

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    Funny thing is I have used the same old Buck 102 Woodsman since 1978 for hunting tasks and what I now know as "Bushcraft" uses. This knife has done it all and survived some moderate abuse along the way. I still have the Woodsman and still use it to break down deer in the garage every fall. I guess my opinion of a bushcraft knife is a knife that someone likes enough to actually use in the field, learn to maintain it, fits the persons hands & desired needs. I have since bought, used & sold a good deal of knives, but always come back to a four(ish) inch blade carbon or stainless. I have kept my Blind Horse Knives Bushcrafter & Fallkniven F1 longer than any others. I still think my Woodsman can do anything I ask of it, however the BHK & F1 are just fun to have & use. I just think whatever someone likes and uses for Bushcraft end use, is a Bushcraft knife. I fully understand different designs and marketing intent to sell the latest and greatest, but I am a simple guy and think a sharp knife cuts stuff, plain & simple.
     
  24. CarneyC

    CarneyC Guest

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    Well lets do it my brother! I would be honored & the review would be documented! PM me

    Oh, I would want it! i have fairly big hands myself, so i am sure it would fit perfect.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2010
  25. justin_baker

    justin_baker Bushmaster

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    Something thin enough to be a decent slicer but thick enough to handle battoning through nasty pieces of wood if you have to. Kind of a hard balance to meet though.
     
  26. Stainz

    Stainz Scout

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    I like a 'safe' knife for 'bushcraft', aka 'camping' duties to me. My earliest example was my Dad's old KaBar. A Buck 119 and 192 have seen such use over the more recent years - and before my 'enlightenment' - or introduction to more 'proper' bushcraft knives, like Marbles and Bark River examples. One of my first BRK&T knives, a LE North Star, put basically a paper cut on my wet & cold trigger finger it's first use outdoors, as my hand grip slipped. Had this been a deeper cut - and not in my backyard - it could have been bad. My idea of a proper bushcraft knife includes some finger protection - even just a jimped bottom ramp.

    My BRK&T 'Gameskeeper' is my best fb bushcraft knife, with my Benchmade 610 Rukus replacing my years of carrying a Buck 110 as a pocket version. Of course, I no more knew I was dissatisfied with that 110 than I did the 192 Vanguard as a fb!

    Stainz
     
  27. CarneyC

    CarneyC Guest

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    I thank that the fact that you make your blades with a "File" is a Testament to your tenacity, & the ones I have saw look "Tenacious" also.
    Since you are a knifemaker/user, what grinds do "You" prefer for a 3 to 5" bushblade? Seems alot of people prefer the Scandi on the smaller blades.
     
  28. Stainz

    Stainz Scout

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    Gads, I forgot to mention edges! No doubt, Buck's long bevel makes for a great slicer. The straight edges on my Benchmades are a variable - but still serviceable in the field even, as Bear Grylls demonstrated on the new episode off PNG, by using a shell. Flat rocks have been used for years, too. My new-found-favorite, the convex edge, requires a mouse pad and W/D Si paper for maintenance - or at least a properly charged strop, neither emplements being normal pocket fare. I don't know what would be used with a Scandi-grind, either. I guess the flat grind gets the field maintenance nod. My trips were often no more than an extended weekend, so a backup sharp pocket knife often was all I ever needed, even if it was a SAK. Actually, my most recent backup in that regard is a Vic 'Farmer', quite a handy 'backup'.

    Now, if field maintenance isn't a worry - or you can make it back to the truck/car/Jeep for a proper sharpener, my money would likely go for a convex edge - seemingly magic in the sharpness arena. The finger protection is important, too - as is a set of weather/goo proof scales. Micarta/G10/ Dymondwood - great choices here - and 4" is optimal for me - with a decent spine thickness and thumb notching/jimping. The blank looks well proportioned.

    Stainz
     
  29. BigHat

    BigHat Guide Bushclass I

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  30. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    No it points to each persons interpretation of what one is. This is kinda like a sociology project where a cross section of ppl are asked the same question. I already know, even if they dont, that based on their knowledge and experiences will determine their response.

    I am just looking at the details in all the answers because I am curious and focus on details.

    It is a fact that knives for the most part are a form of security blankets for most Americans. Now before you huff up remember we are the minority not the majority. Just as completion of a course does not equal competency neither does owning a knife imbue its owner with knowledge, however completing instruction grants confidence to try it again and possession of a knife imbues one with a sense (false or justified) security.

    Again there is not a right or wrong answer unless you are criticizing a person for what they carry because it does not look like yours.
     
  31. Borealbushcrafter

    Borealbushcrafter Tracker

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    +1 Could not agree more with you Mummichog.:)
     
  32. Sgt. Mac

    Sgt. Mac Elder Staff Member Administrator Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II Bushclass Instructor

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    What ever works for you. I got a Custom Nessie, from Iz, a Woodlore Clone from JAAT, GRK, Old hick from Skab, A custom Bull Dog Nessie from Just Joel, and 2 Beckers, the BK2and the big BK9. All can do what I want or need in the bush as desribed in the first post, including fire prep and cuttin wood for fire. I dont or wont limit myself to one style or the other, each type has it pro's and cons. I like trying to use different types to do the same thing, that way I become familiar with different types and not pigeon holed to only one style of tool.
     
  33. Borealbushcrafter

    Borealbushcrafter Tracker

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    You carry all these knives in your kit at the same time?:eek::D
     
  34. Sgt. Mac

    Sgt. Mac Elder Staff Member Administrator Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II Bushclass Instructor

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    No lol of course not
     
  35. Borealbushcrafter

    Borealbushcrafter Tracker

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    :D LOL Just Kidding.;)
     
  36. romsisel

    romsisel Scout

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    I agree with Mac, after all a "bushcraft" knife by definition is a knife used for crafting in bush. Which could be anything that gets the job done. From a sharp piece of flint (that you can't find in Missouri:D) to a Busse Battle Mistress to a Henkels chef knife. I hope I never find the perfect knife cuz it is so much fun trying different ones.
    Right now I usually use a BK-9 for a big blade, a mora of various flavors for a med blade and a RC-3 for a small blade. But the most used and handy of all my cutting tools is my one hand trekker SAK which is always with me.( it does suck at chop'n though)
     
  37. Woodswanderer

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    Just have to say one thing JAAT woodslore, dam that was two thing's!!!

    Steve
     
  38. rasp181

    rasp181 Scout

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    E A, I am a hobbyist maker and I like the blade you have profiled. I think a bushcraft knife should not have a blade over 5 inches long, made of high carbon steel for easy field sharpening and be no more than 3/16ths thick. I prefer a flat or high scandi grind for cutting ability. I really like using natural materials for handles but as posted earlier for heavy use micarta, G-10 etc. would be ideal. Also you didn't mention sheaths but even though I will make kydex sheaths my preference will always be leather, love the look, smell, feel of leather ya know.
     
  39. OzaawaaMigiziNini

    OzaawaaMigiziNini Guide

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    As a designer and user of knives (only made little forged "file knives", so I don't consider myself a maker compared to the true masters out there and in here) a Bushcraft Knife should be a general purpose tool. This means it should be tough enough to baton wrist thick kindling, but be thin and sharp enough to feather a stick or carve a netting needle. The knife ought to be long enough to get good leverage when using it as a shear for cutting basket spokes, but be not too cumbersome to prevent me skinning a hare or filleting a fish.

    With that being said, each person's experience, size, height and strength seem to effect a knife. What may be perfectly balanced for me (6 ft, been using axes and knives since early childhood) may be too cumbersome to someone smaller such as my Urban-raised girlfriend or a young cousin.
    The Bushcraft Knife works in unison with a saw, an axe or large bladed knife ("Camp Knife" is the term a lot of oldtimers in my parts use). The saw cuts down to size the large logs or trees, the axe speed up the chopping and splitting, while the Bushcraft Knife handles the detailed chores that the axe and saw cannot complete.


    Due to that I do not require the blade to be large, for it may be too heavy or off-balanced to skin/carve with. For me, the right size ought to be a blade between 5 and 8 inches.

    Although I love Mora knives, my experience has told me their rat-tangs are too gentle for heavy batoning through spruce or cherry. I even snapped the handle of a Swedish Army Model when batoning through cedar! So a full-tang blade is my choice.

    The handle ought to be made of a comfortable material that is durable. Micarta is one of my favourite materials, though some types of plastics/synthetics are nice. However, after Joel DeLorme made my "Ravenwings", I found my true love; Stabilized Elm Burl. Beautiful curling grains make the wood durable and gorgeous; tough as an Apache woman, and as elegant as a Cheyenne woman.

    So altogether, what is The Bushcraft Knife to me? Something that does the job above and beyond my expectations. For me, that is a woodlore-esque knife, though the Skookum and a few of the Condor Knives are catching my eye daily.
     
  40. Vot

    Vot Scout

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    Knife Criteria?

    Hi! I'm interested in gaining an insight into what the knife type known as a "bushcraft" knife actually is for, should be, and its stylistic influences. I've no expert knowledge, or great experience with knives, and most of what I know about knives comes from forums like this, so most of my personal observations and musings will likely be wrong.

    I don't like the term "bushcraft" knife; it sounds like an adman's rebranding exercise, so I use the term outdoorsman's knife.

    1. A "knife" has to be a knife, and not an ax substitute, or a small sword. What I mean is that a knife is a multifunctional tool that is a piece of personal gear, small enough to be carried unobtrusively on the belt without interfering with easy movement, or drawing attention to itself, or just to be slung in a pack without having to consider it's berth space. Anything bigger begins to fall into the realm of specialist tool. Some tools advertised as knives are to me, western parangs, or machetes with fancy handles.

    2. The most important use for an outdoors knife seems to me to be firecraft. Your knife has to be able to shave and split kindling.

    3. Batoning! I think that this is a necessary part of fire lighting, but gets well into the realms of overkill in knife reviews. How much kindling do you need? Will you really ever be in a situation where there are only six inch diameter Osage logs? You shouldn't ever need to split down sticks any bigger than a rolling pin, and you shouldn't need to split a six inch diameter log straight through the middle. Branches can be broken, or burnt through. This being the case (if it is the case), I don't see why a knife blade has to be any bigger than six inches, and four inches should be fine.

    4. Processing game, etc. I'd be including skinning and gutting small game, fish and for some people deer; actually I don't know anything about butchering deer, so that part's invalid. I don't see why a knife that's principle use is for small game can't be designed to also perform fire making duties 'tho.

    5. Chopping. I haven't seen any chopping task done by a knife that couldn't have been done better and faster with a small axe or a small (and light) folding saw. I've got a folding saw with a four inch blade that can cut through thick branches faster than an eight in butcher's knife can, why raise up a sweat? I don't think that chopping is a required function of a personal carry knife.

    6. Carving: An outdoors knife should be able to handle small carving tasks like notching a spring snare toggle, cutting a tent peg, or making a pot hook. A knife doesn't have to be able to carve a spoon, as much fun as that looks to be. Plastic spoons are free in any cheap cafe. Wooden spoons are six for 99p in Asda.

    7. Food prep: What we are really talking about here is decent slicing here, which is about blade thickness and blade length. A knife should also be able to puncture cans with impunity.

    There are knives that are very good that I don't think fit all of these criteria. The Mora seems to be too flimsy for all of these tasks (I duck for cover). The Ray Mears type "bushcraft" knife seems too clumsy and overbuilt. The coke bottle handle seems like hype to me. Many agricultural tools that were really "used all day without discomfort", like billhooks and sickles (SP?) seemed to have very basic handles.

    Pretty uninformed observations, and I'm prepared to be proved wrong on all points, although I'd be interested to know if any one agrees with any of the above musings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  41. Ned

    Ned Scout

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    Fixed blade with substantial tang, heat tempered, high carbon content. :) Those are my requirements. I like 'em big and small.
     
  42. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass II

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    I agree with all you've said. A 3" - 4" blade is all you really need out there, I'd go 5" tops.
     
  43. RDog

    RDog Scout

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    I agree on I think everything except the Mora bit. Time has already proven they work well when in the right hands.
     
  44. MtnManJoe

    MtnManJoe Guide

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    Edit: Please disregard this poorly thought out post.

    Seems like the question 'should' be: When Charlie "FNG" Newbie decides to get a knife for his first upcoming "Solo "10 essentials" Week In The Woods", What should he look for, to maximize it's overall usefulness ?

    Sure, You can gut and skin a chipmonk with a Becker Bk-9 .. You can cut down and process a 6 inch diameter hardwood tree with a Mora 511 .. But, Perhaps what we are looking for is the best 'viable' compromise ??
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  45. Guy

    Guy Founder Staff Member Administrator Vendor

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    It is interesting how the same "best knife" thread comes back with different clothes.
     
  46. Vot

    Vot Scout

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    Hey sorry mate! I didn't know that you had to actually live in the backwoods of Oregon to express an opinion on what's useful in a daily carry knife. If you outline what specifically you find offensive in my post, maybe I can retract the points you disagree with?
     
  47. Ulfgrim

    Ulfgrim Guide

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    It may seem a tad under built for some people, but it's reputation is well earned. Hogs are not easy creatures to clean and their bones are hard. If durability is in question, I'd make a funnel and pour in some pewter. Then, even should the wood fail me, I still have a solid chunk of metal that can be used for its intended purpose.

    As for the rest of your criteria, I agree on some, and disagree with others, but to each his own. I find that knife preferences are just as, if not more personal, than gun or clothing choices. Everyone has their own rendition of the "perfect" knife, based on how they utilize it.

     
  48. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Merged to existing thread.
     
  49. central joe

    central joe Scout

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    ok, i fit into the fng of bushcraft. been camping since the early 60's. i carry a kbar usmc, a pocket knife and a smaller fixed blade. one knife just doesn't do it for me. yes i know that it is extra weight, but not really noticable. just my iniformed 2 cents worth. joe
     
  50. Vot

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    Here are a couple of knives Charlie "FNG" Newbie made, a couple of knives Charlie "FNG" Newbie put handles on and made sheaths for, and some of the things "Charlie FNG Newbie" made with knives. I'd love to see your sheaths knives and handles, or maybe see the bows you made with only a butcher's knife and a lauri carbon. Looking forward to it.

    Some Charlie "FGN" Newbie cut, hardened and handled knives.

    [​IMG]

    Charlie "FNG" Newbie with a near perfectly tillered 45lb shortbow made with a butcher's knife.

    [​IMG]

    Some self handled scandi blades with no-slip, self made scandi sheaths.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'm not going to put Turley out of business, and that's a fact but Charlie FNG Newbie is really Looking forward to seeing all of your knife made artifacts and self made/handled knives and sheaths Mountain Man.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012

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