what is with ultra light backpacking

Discussion in 'Backpacking' started by wonderboy0817, Jul 18, 2012.

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  1. wonderboy0817

    wonderboy0817 Tracker

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    I keep seeing all this mombo jumbo about ultra-light backpacking what happened to the 45 -60 lb pack and sucking it up. ( I don't mean to come off as a tool) My pack in the Marines was that much every time we went any where and that didn't account for ammo or all that so is it a fad or is it the evolution of gear. I understand minimalist packing but why suffer, now don't get me wrong i would say I'm a bit of a pack rat. Any input would be great cause I'm not getting it.
     
  2. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Scout

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    Interesting first post on a bushcraft forum. You might get a better response or more responses on an UL backpacking forum.

    Nevertheless, I'll give you my $0.02.

    You said, "... why suffer ...." Why suffer, indeed? I carried a heavy pack in the military as well. Considerable suffering went along with carrying that pack. You said it yourself, we had to "suck it up" and carry those heavy packs.

    Although I'm not an ultra-light guy myself (at least by those who proclaim to be ultra-light guys), I can see some of the appeal. Go lightly. Utilize your skills to meet your needs rather than utilizing a ton of stuff carried on your back.

    Try an overnight in the woods with just your knife and what you can carry in your pockets some time. There's freedom in going lightly if you allow it.

    For the UL guys that are trying to shave ounces off their pack by spending hundreds of dollars, my typical counsel is that you can more cost-effectively shave a few pounds by losing a bit of your own body weight. For me, it's not about spending a lot of money to have a similar size pack that weighs three ounces less. It's about challenging myself to thrive in the bush with as little as possible that doesn't come from the bush itself.
     
  3. beacon

    beacon Guide Bushclass I

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    For many, it's about covering more ground more comfortably. For some, as the years go by, it becomes more difficult to haul the loads of one's youth. As with anything, the reasons are many and varied. Do some people go to extremes just to prove that they can? Of course they do. Personally, I think each has to find his/her own balance between pack weight and comfort. If I'm planning a 50-mile hike over 2 days, I'm NOT carrying a 45-60lb pack, that's for sure.

    So, I wouldn't say that it's "mombo jumbo"; rather, I think it's a case of "different strokes for different folks".

    IMHO, the most important thing is that you're getting out and enjoying yourself without sacrificing safety.
     
  4. Trojan1994

    Trojan1994 Scout

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    The Go-Lite Crowd...

    have their own philosophy/strategy/niche market...out here in CA, there's a huge market of people that count ounces in every aspect of their life! IIRC, the magic # that some of them shoot for for backpacking the Sierra's is 27lbs. for fast and comfortable tripping...

    Regards,

    Tony
     
  5. Echo4v

    Echo4v Scout

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    Well, since light discipline is not part of bushcraft (per se). We can pretty much throw out the "pack light, freeze at night" mantra that we learned in The Corps. Also, some people like to change things up and offer themselves a new challenge.

    By the way, what kind of New Age crud is calling The Corps "the Marines", when I was on active duty that would have at least merritted a machine gun fighting position. Marines is what civilians called our fine Corps.

    JMO, freely offered and worth exactly what it cost
    David

    ETA: I just realized you're an 08. I spent three years at 10th Marines. That's where I learned why the Good Conduct Medal has an artilleryman on it. (cause you never see one on an artilleryman).

    Oh and "It's not a party without Arty.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2012
  6. Tanner68

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    Why suffer indeed. You can suffer all day long carrying all your comfort items. I see a lot of suffering on the trail with people overburdened with gear. I will happily go along the trail, hiking all day every day racking up the miles and sights and the country. How much gear do you need in camp? All you need to do is eat and sack out. But each to his own.

    And let's reverse the question. Why in the world do you need 45-60lbs of gear for a couple days in the woods?
     
  7. inisadow

    inisadow Tracker

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    I found there is just a lot of gear I simply did not use by gradually eliminating those things my max pack weight is about 45lbs. Also I like going off trail and being able scramble or do some lite climbing when out so a 60+ lb pack is out of the question(unless mountaineering). PLus the lighter the pack the easier it is on the joints
     
  8. J

    J Bushwhacker Bushclass I

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    Because everybodies journey is differant, and thats ok.

    Not everyone has to do it like them, nor do they need to do it like us.

    why dont you head on over to the intro section and say hey and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks for your service BTW.
     
  9. karlhungusjr

    karlhungusjr Scout

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    I'm sure you had no intention to come off as one but you did.

    Let others do what they enjoy. If you want to hump 60lbs then go for it. But that doesn't mean everyone else should.
     
  10. Ed

    Ed Scout

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    They ain't hurting me none.

    Ed
     
  11. Hugin

    Hugin Scout

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    We go ultra light with 20lbs packs so that we can carry 40lbs of axes, saws, and knives.:4:
     
  12. Horned Toad

    Horned Toad Guest

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    Let clear up some mumbo jumbo then.

    Scary to say now, but 20 years ago when I was in the military we also carried ridicules amounts of weight. The heaviest ruck I weighed, not the heaviest one I carried, was 117 pounds. I did this while weighing a whopping 150 pounds.

    Funny thing about all that gear I was carrying, if you subtracted military mission specify items from the list all I was left was

    Poncho
    Poncho liner
    Poly pro top (weather dependent)
    Gore tex top
    Spare pair of socks
    Stripped down MREs
    Muliti tool
    Fix blade
    Canteen cup
    Heat tabs
    There are probably a few items I am missing but not many.

    If it was going to get way below freezing then you would add a sleeping bag and some more snivel gear, but all in all my actual comfort items were no more or less than what people are now carrying for so called ultra light trips.

    So the concept really shouldn’t be a big mystery for anyone that spent time in the field. Now I have almost the same gear, its better quality and I am more comfortable when I go out. There is also the fact that now because of the things I did 20 years ago, if I didn’t pack minimalist gear I might jot get anywhere.
     
  13. Ed

    Ed Scout

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    Yup LOL

    You got my number!

    Ed
     
  14. Whitestone

    Whitestone Banned Member Banned

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    I'm not 20 anymore. Years of humping heavy packs have wrecked my knees and back. Age has taught me that just because you can, say carry 60#, doesn't mean you should!!

    Save the displays of vitality for the gym. Camp/hike in comfort. If that means 35-40# pounds for you cool. It happens to mean 27-28# pounds for me. It's not "mumbo jumbo" it's frankly, common sense. The Native Americans went as light as possible.

    One would think after being forced to hump 60#, you would want to lighten up a bit.

    Oh, and how about introducing yourself in the Introductions section so we can get to know you a bit.

    And thank you for your service Marine!
     
  15. oldsoldier

    oldsoldier Guide Bushclass I

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    I, too, suffered under the military's version of backpacking. So much so, my knees are shot (13 years "light" infantry will do that..). The day I got out, I vowed never to suffer under that weight again. To a large degree, I havent. But, that doesnt mean I went ultralight.
    My backpacking experiences have been varied. I LOVE trying new gear. I have backpacked with military equipment, civilian equipment, the latest and greatest, and some hand me downs. This by NO means makes me an expert, but, here is what I have concluded:
    The military requirements are largely for missions. I can get better gear that is FAR lighter-will never go back to that setup again (personal preference).
    I tried the Ultralight for a season (May to September up here), and decided it wasnt for me. Sure, I had ultralight EVERYTHING-pack, stove, sleeping bag, tent, clothing-my base weight was somewhere around 12 lbs. With water & food, for 3 days, I was about 16-17 lbs. This, I will ALSO never do again-I gave up too much comfort, for mileage. Not really a great tradeoff.
    I have found my happy medium. I have a couple different setups-my hiking setup, that, although I have no idea what it weighs, is comfortable, and thats what I want. I also have a bushcrafting setup-different tools, different backpack, different idea. When I take THIS setup to the woods, its for pure enjoyment-and, the weight STILL doesnt matter to me. Its heavier than the hiking setup, but, I have more toys to play with too. And, again, its COMFORTABLE. Which, ultimately, is what matters to me.
    I also thank you for your service. Please feel free to post in the introductions, so we can get to know you a little better :)
     
  16. Jason

    Jason Founder Staff Member Administrator Bushclass I

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    I used to wonder why the UL crowd did what they did too, but then I learned that it's just what they enjoy and it's not my business to question or criticize. I just enjoy something different that they do and have the utmost respect. Ultralighters are welcome here and there is always something we can learn from everyone.
     
  17. ALwoodsman

    ALwoodsman Tracker

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    Why carry all of that weight. I can make it comfortably with 30 lbs for 3 days and that includes food and water. I can carry more weight but why would I want to?
     
  18. joe305

    joe305 Guide

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    thats exactly what I was going to post....
     
  19. rocketbomb

    rocketbomb Guide

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    Though I wouldn't call myself ultra-light I see no reason to have to suffer under a 60lb pack (more than 1/3 my body weight!!) to "enjoy" the wilderness. A lot of modern equipment is nice and light, and it's not all as fragile as the weight would suggest. I can safely backpack for a few days with under 35lbs of gear, food included, and be very comfortable for the duration of the trip (up to 5-7 days if in a group sharing gear, or that'll do me about 3-4 days solo save for winter).

    The "ultralight" spirit is old... think of the kit Nessmuk described for his summer trips!
     
  20. dwightp

    dwightp Guide Bushclass I

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    LOL............I remember going on a weekend backpacking trip to the Smokies once years ago and I was almost bragging about how my pack weighed 65 pounds. Wow, did I have a lot to learn! Heck, if I could do that same trip today and carry everything in an Altoids can, I'd do it in a heartbeat!!! Nothing wrong with taking less stuff....

    Everybody is different and I don't care if you are an ultralighter or want to carry the kitchen sink, the important thing is for EVERYONE who loves the outdoors to get outside. Whether they are ultralighters, bushcrafters, tent campers, RVers, or anything else is irrelevant. We need them ALL because together we can keep public lands public, and help fund National Parks, State Parks, campgrounds, etc. Once we start bickering among ourselves and criticizing those who choose to carry more or less than we do, we are only hurting those of us who like to enjoy the outdoors.
     
  21. ROCK6

    ROCK6 Scout

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    There is a point of diminishing returns…too little weight and you may suffer the lack of some comfort items; too much weight and your body will be beat too much to enjoy your comfort items.

    I’m still active duty and have done my share of rucking and duffle-shuffles, but I try to keep the weight down in my recreational packs. It does depend on your activities. We’re actually doing a short three day backpack trip tomorrow; it’s only about 4-5 miles in to the planned camp site and then some fishing, swimming, exploring and day hikes. I’m looking at around 40 to 45 pounds…I’m packing my favorite chair, fishing gear and a smaller day bag for essentials. I’m comfortable with 45 pounds, but if I’m creeping up to 60-65 pounds, I really try and scrutinize what I’m taking verse my planned activities; especially if that distance is more than 8 to 10 miles. Your knees are good now, but over 40, you’ll pay the price for ground-pounding too much weight too often. I do pack along the extra weight of a couple of cans of Guinness for my evening relaxation drills:D

    The good news is that my son is now 13 years old and will become my personal pack mule. I can still pack along some fun-tools/toys and comfort items at his expense:D It’s only fair, as our first family of four backpacking trip had me packing 100 pounds…I have no desire to do that anymore!

    Also, the less you take, the more you think and the more you can improvise. Typical ultra-lite hikers want to go long distances quickly; ultra-lite bushcrafters want to leverage off their primitive skills, and most just want a comfortable hike with a few comfort items where they can relax and enjoy the outdoors far enough away from civilization to have the peace of mind. It's all a balancing game with what you intend to do.

    ROCK6
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  22. GoodOlBoy

    GoodOlBoy Guest

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    Everybody has to choose their own path. By ALICE belt gear rig (no backpack buttpack instead) weighs in around the 25lb mark currently and gives me 72 hours pretty comfortably with the possibility of extended stay so long as there is running water and fish or small game to be had. I have been considering doing a ultralight 24-48 hour rig just because I am a overweight 37 year old with a bad knee. If you want to hump a 100 pound pack and SAW into the woods because that is what you are use to then more power to you, but this kid ain't doing it. I am certain you will be able to kick your feet up and be more comfortable than me, but then again I am pretty danged comfy on a bed of pine needles in a sapling thicket. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong.

    Each man has to cut his own path, and has to follow it. IE to each their own.

    My 2 cents.

    GoodOlBoy
     
  23. Code Red

    Code Red Supporter Supporter

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    Hey Devil Dog, I humped everything in the USMC inventory including a HMMWV tire (Don't mouth off to your Company Gunny). If you really did too, and you're smart enough to tie your own boot laces, then you understand why someone would want a lighter pack. Maybe its not your "thing", but don't pretend that you don't understand it.

    Don't drop the Corps into your resume and then act like a troll. There are too many vets here to be impressed by how hard you think you are, and you make the rest of us look bad.
     
  24. GoodOlBoy

    GoodOlBoy Guest

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    Oh and since I forgot to say it. Thanks to you and all the other vets for your service. This military brat appreciates it!

    GoodOlBoy
     
  25. wingryder

    wingryder Scout

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    Thanks for your service Wonderboy. The "Mumbo Jumbo" about UL backpacking is that I can't physically carry 60lbs of gear anymore. I am recovering from my SECOND spinal surgery (from an injury I received on active duty), and I have to travel as light as I can... or not go out at all. 30 years from now, you will understand... and 30 years from now, UL gear will be made from carbon nanotube and your loaded pack will weigh 60 oz... lol
     
  26. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    +1 with the ex vets. Injury and life makes it impossible to do what I once was able to in the mil, however now that I am allowed to think for myself and make my own loadout I no longer need to suffer.

    The toll somethings done in in your youth can come "back" to haunt you if your not careful.
     
  27. Arizona

    Arizona Tracker

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    Nessmuck was a sort of early on ultra-lighter. On one trip he describes coming across parties that to him carried unnecessary extra duffle and went on to describe his load for that same trip including canoe, extra clothing, blanket-bag, two days rations, pocket axe, fishing rod and backpack never exceeded 26 pounds. That is pretty light with the canoe added in. I know his canoe was light but still, for the mid-1840s and on when he was really doing this thing that was ultra-light.

    It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Truth is, I am not even close to ultra-light but we have to carry all of our water on many of our trips. That means there will be in the least, 24 pound of water in my pack on top of my other gear. Girlfriend likes a good strong 4-season tent and I carry that as well along with other comfort driven gear. With photo gear my load can get up to 60 pounds.

    There are times when we need to travel far to get to an objective. We drop a lot of that load and walk out with no tent, no Sling Light chairs, etc. We leave a lot of things in place and carry on with minimal gear and the load of water. We always miss the tent and chairs, not to mention other luxury things but we make do and get to places most will never see.

    So, its good to keep an open mind about these things if one wants versatility and the means to do more than the average accomplishments.
     
  28. Bushmonkey85

    Bushmonkey85 Scout

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    QFT.

    I have definitely learn alot from the UL'ers around the net. Just looking at their loadouts and tips helps me to rethink what I'm carrying in my pack. If I can cut out a pound or 2 by using a few of their ideas, then great! I'm definitely not a UL hiker, but that's what sharing the knowledge is all about.

    As an aside - I know cutting down pack weight definitely can help some of us fellas who carry around a little extra "insulation" in the midsection. Makes a hike more enjoyable and enables us to do it more frequently too!
     
  29. 180deg Out

    180deg Out Guest

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    Never was a member of the "Corps", truthfulluy, never wanted to be. Was raised by a 30 years of service Army Sgt/Maj and then was in myself for 4 years. Answered "US" in the chow line. Many of you will understand the reference. Once I got in country and was prepping for my first patrol, I loaded out just as the manual said I should and sure enough there was 40-50 pounds of gear. A seasoned Plt Sgt started removing and throwing out most of what I was carrying while laughing and cussing me at the same time. Just because it says to do it that way, don't mean you need too. let your situation be your guide. I just can't resist quoting one of Pop's favorite Marine jokes at this point. Listen up--this is HUMOR. "How do you get a good Marine?............Take a perfectly good soldier then beat his brains out. Please laugh with me, as I served with and worked with many good men.
     
  30. joe305

    joe305 Guide

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    :dblthumb:
     
  31. 95bv5

    95bv5 Scout

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    This is exactly where I have gotten to in my own search for the "right gear" and my "target weight". I'm at the point where I know exactly what is going in my pack for each of the different scenarios that I create for myself. From heavy loads on a canoe trip to a lightweight overnight to a remote trout pond in the Adirondacks.

    I haven't weighed my gear in a long time and just don't feel the need anymore. I know pretty much what works what I can comfortably carry and I know what I "need" to be comfortable in the woods. The comfort part has become a little more important over the past few years so my pack is creeping back towards my Army days weights but I still have a LONGGGGGG way to go. I honestly don't care how much someone else is carrying. 10 lbs or a 100lbs.
     
  32. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Everybody's a hard ass in their own minds.

    The u.l. crowd think they're hard because they pack minimal gear.
    The Marines and soldiers think they're hard because they had to hump a heavy ruck.
    The primitive guys think they're hard because they use a flint knife and go around barefoot.
    The frugal guy thinks he's hard because he uses a ten dollar mora
    The gear guy thinks he's hard because he uses a $300.00 custom.

    Here's my rhetorical question for the day.
    Why we care what others think so much that we have to come off as hard asses all the time?
     
  33. skunkworx

    skunkworx Scout

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    Imagine how much faster and farther you could have gone in the Corps if your pack weighed half as much and you lost no functionality?

    Or imagine how much less wear and tear would be on your body after getting out of the Corps lol.
     
  34. shadowmib

    shadowmib Supporter Supporter

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    I'll weigh in on this one.

    There are several "schools" of camping.

    Comfort campers - Typically RV and car campers that bring everything they can fit in the vehicle, they sit around all day playing music, throwing frisbees and cooking on their propare BBQ grills. Just like hanging in the back yard but they do it at a park.

    Gear/technical campers - The don't bring as much "comfort" stuff, but are laden with a gadget for everything.. High tech camp stoves, GPS systems for geocaching, ham radios, $500 space age tents that weigh 1 ounce, etc. Some of these people fall into the ultralight crowd in that they look for the lightest stuff so they can bring more of it.

    Skill based/Minimalist - These people bring the "10 essentials" and not much more, relying on their skills and stuff they forage for in the woods. Some of these also fall into the ultralight group too. They might bring an axe, but its the lightest they can find.

    Bushcrafters are often a mix of the bunch.. Bringing lots of comfort food (bacon) instead from freeze dried envelopes, bringing a tarp and a few bits of cord to rig a shelter instead of bringing a tent and poles, fishing and foraging instead of packing food with them, etc.

    Every person has a slightly different approach to camping... My EX was a perfect "comfort" camper.. She would bring three times the stuff I would. I am more of a minimalist/tech camper. I'll bring a few pieces of tech gear, if i can't do without it, or it saves my back from humping a low tech heavy version.

    Then you got the "scorched earth" vs "leave to trace" groups.

    What it boils down to is everyone does things differently for different reasons.
     
  35. yankee907

    yankee907 Scout

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    I favor bushcraft as my brother favors ultralight. I will be darned if we didnt trade info back and forth to find something we passed on to each other. He taught me about micro stove to burn heet and i taught him about having a folding saw for downed trees in public areas, especially on a tall mtn in Roanoke, VA with a 20 mph wind. A might chilly u could say. We found a mix of info works for us, i like wool, he likes down. We r both still warm. It will work for u too. As for the heavy rucks at speed in the woodlune, those days are done and i would rather slow down, flop where i enjoy the spot and fire up some grub. I do it with what is around me more often than not but you will find ur blend of each. Go on out and enjoy yourself. All of the servicemembers deserve a little respect, theyve earned it, so HOOAH to all'yall and carry on!
     
  36. Code Red

    Code Red Supporter Supporter

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    "Life is hard, but its harder if you're stupid" -- John Wayne

    I am an absolute artist when it comes to stupid. So I must be Hard.

    I have a buddy (15 years younger then me) that was never in the service, but grew up hiking around Mt. Rainier. I have a lot of miles under my boots in the Corps, but am an absolute amateur when it comes to carrying a pack for fun. A forced march in the military is not the same thing as "backpacking". He can be comfortable in camp because he has what he needs, and comfortable on the trail because he's not carrying all the extra crap I bring. So I swallow the ego and try to learn from somebody that seems to have a few things figured out. His experience hiking recreationally is more relevant to what I want to do now, than my experience hiking cause I was told to. My buddy ain't hard by any definition. But he is smart. I'm tired of being hard. I wanna try smart.
     
  37. chrisd636

    chrisd636 Tracker Bushclass I

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    Brilliant and eloquently put.
     
  38. RoadLessTraveled

    RoadLessTraveled Guide Bushclass I

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    sigh...

    "Whats with the xyz group" is equivalent to saying "somebody explain to me why the xyz group is so stupid" or "why can't the folks in the xyz group be as smart as me."

    That tone is not welcome on this forum. Why? Because this forum is founded on the principles of respect and inclusion. That tone is disrespectful and divisive.

    Wonderboy, you're new here. You got three (3) posts, at the time of my writing this - in fact, this thread is your first post. Not a great way to start. Whenever this tone of disrespect and divisiveness pops up, it's usually from someone who has recently joined the forum. They either learn to be more respectful, or they go find a different forum where their tone is more welcome. If you'll choose the first of these options, you'll find a lot of friends here with whom you can share a lot of fun experiences...

    otherwise:
    http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70155 Soapboxers On Notice
    http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71130 Trends and Guru's


     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  39. Tuco

    Tuco Tracker

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    Once you go light, it's a different world. I could not carry 50# even if I wanted to, unless we are talking 2 miles per day, and that would still be like torture. I've never gone ultralight as my brother and a good friend have. They walk 10+ miles a day for 2 weeks straight, they are comfortable, and happy on the trail, and at camp they have what they need.
    I don't want to do that, but I don't want a pack that is 40% of my weight either.
    To each his own.
     
  40. Grizzly

    Grizzly Scout

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    This is what I believe exactly! I am pretty darn fit, competed in Tri's and adventure races and have been competing in grappling matches for years. So sure I "can" carry the 65lbs or more pack, but I do not have to so I won't.

    But like many have said, each to their own.
     
  41. draco

    draco Guide Bushclass I

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    If you want to carry 60 pounds then go for it. You are probably at or very close to your peak fitness. I'm not so young any more and go pretty light weight (not really ultra but darn light.)

    But I guess those ultra light guys could make the argument that anyone can be comfortable in the woods with 50 pounds of gear but it takes some experience to be comfortable with just 10 pounds of gear.
     
  42. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Some people obsess about being able to carry the least possible weight, as speed is more important to them than comfort or versatility.

    Some people like to carry the most weight they can, to show off how strong and tough they are.

    Some people like to ask questions designed to start arguments.

    The rest of us just want to carry what we need, be comfortable, learn new skills , and not stir things up.

    G1
     
  43. Shnick

    Shnick Bushwhacker Bushclass II

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    I used to worry about my pack weight when I hiked, but then I realized I didn't have the funds to buy a $300 pair of shoes, no matter if they weighter 8 oz or not. It came to a point where it was no longer worth it.

    I understand the theory of UL, but don't follow it.
    UL hiking has it's advantages, but only for those who attempt 20+ mile days on the AT (or other trail). But, the same people are freezin' their vitals off when they don't bring their $450 windbreaker/blanket/sleeping bag with them. Because in the UL world all things HAVE TO BE multi purpose or it stays behind. Not the hike for me...

    I have some moderately priced lightweight gear and use it, but I don't go so far as to cut the white margin off my maps. I read a post on another forum where someone said "The biggest weight you can reduce is yourself." (and not to be an a$$, but losing 27 pounds helps a lot, I did it) That's when I quit worrying about it. If you're fit enough to carry it, bring it. Enjoy having it...

    I get a kick out of the folks who bragged about how to drill holes in their toothbrushes and cut their straws to half length. It was bad enough listening to the yuppies with titanium sporks, but it got worse when they talked about drilling holes in it to make it lighter! And then, the guys who use the excel spreadsheets that track every GRAM, (yes, grams) they carry. Its these same guys who have to leave the trail due to severe dehydration because THEY DIDNT PLAN to carry water. it weighed too much.

    Now, I'm glad I went thru that stage, (all of 2 weeks) it taught me a few tricks here and there. But it also taught me that some folks just dont know when to stop...

    GreyOne said it right... they "obsess"...

    I'm not one of those that whine because I think my 16 oz cook kit is too heavy. I ENJOY bringing my stuff. I USE my stuff. I like HAVING my stuff...

    Ok im done...
    Thanks!
     
  44. Ulfgrim

    Ulfgrim Guide

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    For me, UL or minimalist thinking has been more a necessity than anything else. I've torn my legs up so many times between martial arts and high school football/weightlifting, that carrying anything more than 30 pounds through the canyons is just suicide.

    Aside from that, I like the idea of testing my skills rather than relying on my equipment. A journey not all are willing to try, but our ancestors didn't have all the new fancy stuff, so why would I truly need it? To be comfortable, sure, but where's the satisfaction in it?

    But ultimately, to each their own. I know plenty that are willing to carry 50+ pound of equipment. I just ain't one to jump on that bandwagon.
     
  45. kingnh

    kingnh Tracker

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    I like that :)

    I do quite a bit of hiking and backpacking and am not "ultralight" by their standards. But with all food, water, and fuel my daypack is usually around 18lbs and my overnight 2-3 day pack is 30-35 depending on how much water I need which is dependent on available sources along the trails.

    Given 2 shelters that provide the exact same level of comfort and practicality. I will take the 1lb shelter instead of the 4lb version. Why carry 60lbs if those extra 30 lbs provide me NOTHING that my 30lbs of gear does not.

    Besides, isn't part of bushcraft all about doing more with less? And using your skills and knowledge of the natural world around you improvising solutions using the resources available as opposed to using store bought gear. Basically replacing that gear with knowledge. The more you carry in your head, the less on your back. etc. etc. etc. etc.
     
  46. flaviln

    flaviln Scout

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    Guys,I'm proud they invented chocolate,vanilla,and strawberry. Now we can all enjoy ice cream!


    flaviln
     
  47. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    You must be young yet... wait til your knees and back no longer work, and you don't recover from a maximum effort in 2 hours...

    i was once an 11-minute 2 mile guy who could also max the Army's PT test when the "max" scores were 13:05, 95 (or so) pushups in 2 minutes and 98 (or so) situps in two minutes. i too could hump a ruck for miles, and did. i carried an M60 on roadmarches, simply to get the rest of my section/plt/company to shut up about my assigned weapon (.45, 9mm, or M16, depending on where i was in my career).

    at some point in my early 30s, things started to hurt. i stopped sleeping on the ground and went for a hammock. i stopped carrying double and triple the weight, and applied thought/wisdom/bushcraft to my load... in my late 40s now, i am no less comfortable in camp than i was before. less tired, that's for sure!

    give it a shot, and leave the machismo and testosterone behind. it's not a fad... been around for years. you'll either get it, or not. if not, you'll get it when you're older.
     
  48. wonderboy0817

    wonderboy0817 Tracker

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    ok gents i think i may have kicked a hornets nest with this question and holy cow im sorry i was more trying to get some well more experienced peoples input on the differences and boy howdy there are. BTW im not trying to troll nor would i ever. the reason for the question was i have been watching youtube and seeing all this gear ppl are taking around and looking at what i got and feeling foolish so yes i kind of understand the UL style but all my gear weighs a ton so i figured that through bush-craft i could lessen my load through knowledge it just seems like i may have ruffled some feathers so again sorry
     
  49. RoadLessTraveled

    RoadLessTraveled Guide Bushclass I

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    There have been a lot of folks (mostly new folks) recently that seem more interested in showing off than in learning as a community of friends.

    Without knowing anything about you, and judging by the title and tone of your post, it's hard to tell whether or not you're yet another one of them. Please forgive me and the rest of us if we misjudged your intention. Your reply seems to indicate that you're not. Your subsequent posts will further indicate your intentions.

    Like I said before, if you'll learn with us, you'll find a lot of friends and fun experiences.

    Welcome to the camp!



     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  50. The Hunter

    The Hunter Scout

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    LOL no ruffled feathers here just suck it up and drive on. I still want to be high speed low drag so I just changed numbers a bit :27:

    When I started going UL and believe me I am not UL by gram weenies standard all I had was my LBE, ruck & frame,MRE's, 2 canteens with that reminiscent mildew smell, mil poncho,and a 10lbs sleeping system. Now its a internal homemade job, water bladder with katadyne and steri-pen, 3 lbs hammock including stakes and tarp , freeze dried foods and I sleep in my clothes.

    Waking up after a good night sleep and ready to face the day with a lighter set up is the way to go as you know the pack gets heavier day you wear it!
     
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