why canvas rucksacks

Discussion in 'Packs, Bags & Pouches' started by faca, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. Crossed Arrows

    Crossed Arrows Guest

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    Strider - It's the frame and the bag. Be sure to look at the photos on the ebay auction. Just look for Trapper Nelson Indian Pack Board.

    Max-4 - In choosing a pack, start by gathering and laying out all the stuff you need for a 2-3 night trip, then snug them all in a box. Measure the length, width and height and multiply to give you the necessary cubic inches. From that, you'll be able to pick and choose the bag you need. Just remember: the bigger the bag, the more stuff you will carry, the more the pack will weigh and less likely you will be to pick it up to go for a hike. For 2-3 nights during the 3 seasons: 20# should be your goal. For the cold of winter: 30#. Add the weight of clothing you wear, of course. Enjoy.
     
  2. Roamer

    Roamer Guide

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    Google 'alder creek canvas' or search them on this forum. They sell a variety of rucks for less money. No experience with them myself so can't speak to the quality.

     
  3. Torakka

    Torakka Scout

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    I´ve always wondered that WHY havent modern day companies produced a nostalcic looking packs,copied from past day model but with maybe waterproof materials and such. They could easily dye the corduras like old packs,and in many other wasy it wouldnt be har to disguise a modern pack to look like old one. But no.... the few old school packs made today,that i have seen are ruined with moderns plastic buckles and such....
     
  4. Niflreika

    Niflreika Guide

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    Granite Gear Canoe Packs

    Their #4:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. solocanoe

    solocanoe Bushmaster

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    this pack is probably decades old....it poured on me yesterday....I put the details on another thread in the trips section

    ...nothing inside this pack got wet. It was waxed by Dunko (there's a thead on here about it...seach for FSS pack)
    It's soft and comfy and can handle brush, rocks, and mud-n-muck...it may not be for everyone...but as to the 'why canvas'....stuff like yesterday are why (for me anyway!) :D

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Niflreika

    Niflreika Guide

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    Judging by how a frameless Medium ALICE packs, I'd say 20-25 pounds is the top to shoot for. If you can take it, and aren't going to walk far, maybe 35 pounds max, but that's pushing it.

    How much you need depends on what you pack, the climate at the time, and your skill level. If you are fairly skilled, and it's not super cold, and you're not carrying a lot of bulky equipment, something as small as a Duluth Pack Wanderer or Alder Stream Expedition should do you well. If it's real cold, you have a low skill level (particularly with shelter building) or you just pack bulky stuff, maybe a Duluth or Timber Cruiser, Frost River Old No. 7 or Alder Stream Minnesota Special is more up your alley.

    Alder Stream packs are a bit cheaper if you use cotton webbing and fastex buckles. I don't know if she makes waxed canvas, though. If you want leather straps and buckles, she's right up there with Duluth Pack and Frost River. From what I've seen, Frost River will have lower prices than Duluth Pack for nearly identical packs compared to DP's price for the waxed canvas versions.

    IMO the advice to lay out and measure everything you will carry is spot on. Figure that out, then look at models that match that size, or close to it. Seems all of these packs are something that will last through your grandkid's lives, so price should deter you, just be sure to figure out how big a pack you need, so you order the right one.
     
  7. Roamer

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  8. Max-4

    Max-4 Tracker

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    Pack Size?

    Ok so 20-25 pounds max is the weight to shoot for on a 2 night bush hike. I know I want a frameless waxed canvas bag for this style of light weekend trip. What size in cubic inches would that translate to 2300 or 2900 generally, looking at the Duluth Pack Rambler or Pathfinder type bags. There has got to be a maximum weight and volume at where these frameless packs get too big and will be uncomfortable to carry.
     
  9. Bushrod

    Bushrod Tracker

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    I'm from cotton growing country and the sky is blue and the water is clean! I have an old cotton pack from my scouting days and that old friend is retired but still fully functional and its been around fifty years. Synthetics are great. They are very functional. Personally, I like organics, cotton, wool, down and leather. Can't and won't argue its just a personal preference.
     
  10. Hoodoo

    Hoodoo Scout

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    One of the problems I've had with nylon packs and tents is that the waterproof coating eventually deteriorates. I still use both canvas and nylon though, depending on the situation.
     
  11. Taliesin

    Taliesin Guide

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    I own no canvas packs. My pack experience is with the ALICE and various modern hikers and daypacks (in nylon and cordora) and the Swiss Mountain ruck sack which is rubber. Of all those, I think the ALICE with a frame, has really been my favorite. Something tells me that I should try a canvas pack, but $250 is a might expensive for a single earner family of five, man, such as myself. I wish there were some cheaper alternatives out there. I've toyed with the idea of going with a surplus pack, like the Czech or Italian Military packs sold at places like Swisslink.com. I think the Czech would be ok for a weekend. The Italian pack seems more like a nice little daypack.
     
  12. Uncas

    Uncas Supporter Supporter

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    Hey woods, I've got the FR Woodsman with small basket. Sent it back for grab handle, lash points on top, and extend top flap to better cover basket. They charged 46.95 including return shipping. I had them add the sturnum strap when they built the bag, and on the 2 summits we have, I believe they were 20.00 each. The bag basket combo is great, it's a smaller rig than Croatans, but then so am I lol. Hope this helps.....Uncas
     
  13. woodsrunner

    woodsrunner Banned Member Banned

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    depending on your loadout, the czech might be a bit small for a weekend.
    you can put quite a bit into it but when filled to capacity it doesn't carry very well.
    sort of like overloading the medium alice without a frame...still a good pack though...woods
     
  14. woodsrunner

    woodsrunner Banned Member Banned

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    thanks Uncas!...i traded that pack to howie and i think he just traded it to someone else.
    thanks for the info though amigo!!!...woods
     
  15. Edvvard

    Edvvard Tracker

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    I can guarantee you a 'modern plastic pack' will last nearly forever.
     
  16. Suspectdevice

    Suspectdevice Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    What lead you to that guarantee?
     
  17. Edvvard

    Edvvard Tracker

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    Heh, don't mean to talk out of my rear, I just don't think people need to discredit something modern because they think traditional is the only way to go.

    It depends on the quality of what you buy from the get go, not the material. A McHale, Kifaru, or MR pack won't disappoint.
     
  18. Suspectdevice

    Suspectdevice Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I get you. I have a mountainsmith that has my full confidence. If one were to compare durability between waxed canvas and lightweight nylon, the outcome would be obvious, but durability isn't the only aspect. I know that I wouldn't refuse a frost river or a mystery ranch, both modern and traditional packs are appealing to me.
     
  19. Grits

    Grits Guide

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    Funny this topic would come up.

    Yesterday, I started on a gear dump/clean out, and started going through some of my old packs, stuff sacks, tarps, etc...gear that I bought in the late 1970's and 80's that is now 25-35+ years old. These have never been stored in a hot attic or out in the cold of winter: always in climate-controlled, dry circumstances except when out on trips.

    I was surprised by the stiffness of the nylon material; in some cases it was sort of brittle. The nylon smelled badly and often the urethane was peeling. Not in all cases, but in many. It made me realize that even with modern materials, as it ages, gear breaks down. I doubted i would be able to pass any of this down to my son in any sort of condition that he would desire.

    On the other hand, I have a canvas US gas mask bag that was my grandfather's from 1918 that is still in superb shape...and in fact has a great feel to it. I use it as a shoulder bag on short trips. I will be proud to pass this down, and expect that it might last another 100 years!

    I also have a canvas Boy Scout haversack from the 1960's that also will be worthy of passing down. Even though canvas will wear with age and need repair and patching, it does seem to develop a natural warmth and character that plastic fibers simply cannot match.
     
  20. rdec

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    "compare durability between waxed canvas and lightweight nylon"

    A better comparison would be cotton muslin to lightweight nylon or 12 oz. waxed canvas to 1000 denier Cordura nylon.

    I like cotton, wool, leather and linen and have packs made of these natural materials but the packs I make for myself are of 500-1000d Cordura with nylon webbing.
     
  21. woodsrunner

    woodsrunner Banned Member Banned

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    i own 3 pair of nos nylon m1967 H suspenders and two pair of used surplus canvas m1956 H suspenders.
    all three nylon H suspenders (although useable) have become discolored, stiff and the nylon shoulder straps are beginning to crack.

    the canvas H suspenders i use all the time and although well used seem as supple and strong as ever!...woods
     
  22. SASBob

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    One of the reasons the military went with the synthetics is because the natural materials they were using (cotton, linen, etc.) were rotting in jungle environments. Synthetics, (gore-tex, nylon, dacron etc) just last longer. So, want to be green? Use canvas.

    SASBob
     
  23. Jbird

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    Is there a way to remove the odor from canvas? I have a Swiss Salt and Pepper rucksack that I bought from Cheaperthandirt years ago (before they were popular). It was in good shape but musty smelling (like gramma's house) from storage and it's never lost that smell. Any thoughts?
     
  24. woodsrunner

    woodsrunner Banned Member Banned

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    that is correct, natural materials such as canvas do not fare very well in very humid environments.
    however in dryer more temperate zones canvas surpasses nylon hands down. nylon over time becomes stiff and brittle but requires less maintenance than canvas.
    it is not correct that nylon will not mildew as some believe, put away wet nylon will rot with the best of them...recko i don't know anything about any green thingy yer refering to...woods
     
  25. woodsrunner

    woodsrunner Banned Member Banned

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    lotsa sunshine and fresh air! works wonders on hemp/linen packs...woods
     
  26. Hiker Boy

    Hiker Boy Scout

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    I like kicking it old school with canvas and leather. Reminds me of carrying the old hunter ruck when I was out hunting with my Dad as a child. Nylon is great for backpacking trips but if I'm going to keep it natural with the rest of my kit while bushcrafting, might as well do the same with the pack.
     

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