Wiggy's, Snugpak, or Kelty?

Discussion in 'Sleep Systems' started by grendal, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    I need a cold weather sleeping bag, looking at a 20 degree bag. A system would be better. Dislike the idea of Down. Before its mentioned, i cannot fit inside a regular MSS system. I tried the system at a surplus store and no go :(

    I don't know anything about Wiggy's, but they seem highly regarded here. Snugpak is bomber and is comfy feel, and cheapest. Kelty is Kelty, and i had an old Kelty bag when i was younger, but it is lost to time. The Wiggy's seems really awesome with the FTRSS double bag setup. Its like the MSS, but i fit in it!

    I know temp ratings are a little off, but what about warmth reports near the temp ratings? Zippers? Dealing with moisture?

    Make me want a sleeping bag.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
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  2. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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    The down side to wiggys is they dont pack as small and they weigh more that the higher priced bags. But they are probably your best bang for your buck. IMO
     
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  3. Fink

    Fink Scout

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    I just got the Military sleep system and even though it's a trifle big it's a nice system.

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
     
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  4. BigBubbaJ

    BigBubbaJ Supporter Supporter

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    I have a wiggys 0 degree and the 40 degree overbag. It's flexible system. Made in the USA and they work as advertised.
     
  5. mjh

    mjh Supporter Supporter

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    I too have the wiggys 0 and 40 degree bags. They are bulky. If you need a more packable bag there is the Kifaru slickbag, have a 0 degree bag for when I need to pack smaller.
     
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  6. xrayit

    xrayit Supporter Supporter

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    I have a collection of sleeping bags, one of my go to bags in the 20 degree range is the Snugpak Softie Elite 3. The expanding zipper section is really nice when you need a bit more room. The overall quality of the bag is better than average and priced at around $100.00 is a lot of bag for the money. I have had the bag into the low 20’s with no issues and lastly it packs fairly small with the supplied compression sack. Another nice bag is the Kelty SB 25 bag, light weight @ 1.5 pounds and very packable but it is down. The Kelty SB25 has a cool waterproofing element on the foot section to help keep the foot section dry as it is the most exposed portion of the bag when in a tent with condensation or under a tarp. I have had the Kelty down to high teens with fleece sleeping garments. As for Wiggly I have been looking long and hard at them but just can’t pull the trigger on another big and bulky sleep system since I own four MSS’s and think for general use over a wide range of temps they are the absolute best bang for your dollar spent. As a side note I plan to spend this winter experimenting with the Quilt options I bought 20 degree and 0 degree quilts in down and synthetic with really good insulted ground pads.
     
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  7. Red Wing

    Red Wing Supporter Supporter

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    Klymits stretchy 20deg bag is on mass drop.

    Mountain Hardware have incredible synthetics of youre dead set buy Id absolutely without a doubt use down if Im spending 90.00 or more.

    If price isnt a concern, Mountain Hardware Spectre is an 800fp 20 deg down bag with an eVent outter. woke up many morning to dew on my bag after cowboying and it rolls right off. Pretty much a bivvy and bag combined
     
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  8. Swampyankee

    Swampyankee Tracker

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    I have a -20 Wiggys ( Ultima Thule ). It's a great bag to sleep in but it would require it's own sherpa if you wanted to backpack with it. It weighs 5 lbs and stuffs down to the size of a bread factory.
     
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  9. designtom

    designtom Scout

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    Wiggy.

    I really don't believe that they're heavier. They're just warmer.

    They're definitely warmer when you compare a five year old Wiggy that's still plenty lofty to something that has lost their loft in the same amount of time.

    Moisture transfer ....... eye opening performance.
     
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  10. OldMan

    OldMan Guide

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    All three are good but when it comes to synthetic insulation I'm biased towards the Wiggys brand. They've got a proven track record and they work. I've got two of them, their 20 degree bag and the 0 degree bag, both purchased in the 90's and still in good shape today (albeit 8 years of that in storage).

    Rodney Dangerfield in his movie "Back to School" owned a chain of clothing stores called "Tall & Fat". That's me, and even in the 90's I liked extra room so both my Wiggys bags are XLXW for extra long, extra wide, and I'd ordered them with one as a left hand zip and the other one a right hand zip so they could be combined as ex wife number 2 loved to go hiking & camping, and got the 0 degree bag for her to use during three season trips because she sleeps colder and for me to use in winter conditions.

    Synthetics won't pack down as small as down will, but if it's a synthetic bag you're looking for I like the design, durability, and roomier fit options that Wiggys offers as well as their exceptional warmth value.
     
  11. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    Thanks for everyone's input. I contacted a few vendors and it turns out i am too tall for mass market sleeping bags. Everyone said that i would be uncomfortable in a bag that only goes to 78" for fitment length. REI actually told me to go to Cabelas ot Bass Pro to see if they might have something longer.

    Wiggys offered to make a custom sleeping bag for what i feel is a fantastically awesome price. So i think i might be going the Wiggys route. I hate being big.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  12. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Guide

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    Don't know why they made the MSS so small.My buddy got me one for my birthday,and he,being about 6' tall was barely able to fit into it.Me being only 5'7" it's just right.Zippers are a struggle though once ya get into them,but overall a warm bag.They make another extreme cold bag which runs at $269.They zip on top instead of the side,and have a hood.Seems a bit extreme cost-wise.I don't know if Tennier,the manufacturer of the MSS,makes this one also.US Military Surplus 4pc Down Filled Extreme Cold Weather Sleeping Bag, Like New - 637616, Sleeping Bags at Sportsman's Guide
     
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  13. BigBubbaJ

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    Aside from being more bulky than down - there is no downside. Made in the USA - and performs in all weather even while soaking wet.
     
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  14. RJM52

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    I have a bunch of Wiggy's bags I have bought since 1995 when I bought my first one... Could not be more pleased with the product or the service.

    Since you may be ordering a custom bag (and Wiggy's is about the only company around who will) you may consider a two temperature range bag also if you are ordering a rectangular bag. I and about seven friends all ordered the Nautilus 40* bag with the other side a different rating. Mine is a 40/25 but several of my friends got a 40/0. Makes a great year round bag.

    If you are one day considering getting an Ovebag think about getting the zipper on the right when the warmer side is up that way the "syetem" will be the warmest possible...

    And another advantage over all the other bags is that you can wash them at home as many times as you want. My standard Nautilus is my most often used bag and has been washed every year since 1998 when when I bought it...same with a sweater and vest.

    You won't be disappointed...Bob
     
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  15. Swampyankee

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    I hike the mountains of the northeastern US. Dampness is often an issue and, for that reason, I avoided down bags for years. I was wrong. With modern fabrics the moisture isn't such an issue anymore. In every aspect of my life I get the best equipment that I can manage. At work and at play.
     
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  16. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    so my family helped me order the Wiggy's bag for a Christmas gift. I love this bag! it is SO warm! and much smaller than my previous winter sleeping bag when compressed. It is super sturdy, will last a lifetime and i will never get rid of it. I have one problem however...

    [​IMG]

    I am 80" tall, and I'm not even completely at the bottom. the bag is made to "double wide, double tall" at the recommendation of Wiggy's. I really think I could have gone with just a "wide, tall". I need to build a waterproof bag for it that will attach to my backpacks.

    On the upside, i have enough room to keep my clothes and water warm, and stuff my TechBlanket in there for an extra layer. And possibly use it as an overbag if i got a small sleeping bag.
     
  17. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Guide Bushclass I

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    Oh here we go. Stop drinking the Wiggy kool aid man. His stuff isn't magic. He uses more insulation in his bags than other manufacturers do at a given temp rating, they are in fact heavier. A 40* wiggy bag weighs 4lbs. An MSS patrol bag weighs almost half that.
    If a bag is stored uncompressed the insulation will last a very long time, no matter the manufacturer.
    I'm not sure how you can claim they're not heavier. They are. He doesn't have magic insulation elves weaving a completely new insulation that no one else has or can discover. He uses climashield. Just like about a billion other manufacturers, he just uses MORE of it. Which makes a heavier, warmer bag that compresses less.

    Grendel, did you actually try an MSS?
    I've known plenty of guys over the years who were as tall or taller than you, a couple of them were enormously broad through the shoulders and chest as well.
    No issues.
    I'm 6'4" and also don't have an issue.

    Grendel I know you're set now, but I'm going to chime in with Enlightened Equipment as an option. I'm currently using a regular length quilt and it works fine for me. They make long and extra long sizes as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
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  18. HeadyBrew

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    Good lord that thing is huge! Lol!

    You're 6'8"? You look like if my 6yo were to lay in my bag.

    Please don't take offense as I mean none. Congrats on the new bag. I just didn't realize you could find a bag so large. I hope I never run afoul of the monster of a man that could fill that thing out!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    Unfourtunately i did try an MSS at a surplus shop, and it felt too stretched out.
    I also tried a bag at Cabelas with the same results. REI and Kelty straight up told told me that normal "long" bags wouldnt fit me properly and that the insulation wouldnt work like it should due to compression. Enlightened equipment looks like some nice stuff, and i do enjoy a quilt in the summer. I could get an EE quilt to use inside the wiggys bag... -50° camping anyone? :D

    No offense at all, my friend. The man who could fill this bag would truely would be a scarey dude. This bag could probably have fit Andre the Giant! I'm thinking a "Long, Wide" would have been fine. The crazy thing is, they can make bigger bags...

    But being my new primary winter bag, the size doesnt bother me much, as it is still about 1/2 to 2/3 the bulk of my old cotton winter bag when compressed.

    After having played with it for a bit, i could use it as an overbag if i got a smaller bag like a snugpak or a heavy quilt.

    also, its wide enough my wife could fit in the bag in an emergency (or non-emergency ;))
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  20. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    When pondering the surplus store trip further, I realize i did not actually try the sleeping bag, as i remember now. it was only the goretex bivy cover. it still didnt fit lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
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  21. Traditionalist

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    Agreed. I've got two of their bags, and find them very warm and roomy "enough" for a large feller like me, w/o sacrificing too much dead air space. They're heavy, rugged (so are the zippers) and don't pack down too well, and they lack a draft collar, but I've always been warm-----------even when winter camping. I use them for pulk/boat/car camping, but would think twice before taking them on a serious backpacking trip.
     
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  22. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    I have a Wiggys Super Light which is rated at 0º and -40ºF when using the FTRSS system. I bought it on sale and I've been very happy with it. I also have Slumberjack Esplanade bags in both -20ºF and 0ºF and a Slumberjack Latitide rated at 0ºF. I've been very happy with all three of them. They're very good bags at reasonable prices. If I could only keep one of them I'd keep my Wiggys bag.
     
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  23. medic16

    medic16 Scout

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    I know you stated you dislike the idea of down but I think this would work if you use the Wiggy's bag as an over bag.

    Sierra Stealth

    They come 86 inches long too. Pretty good sale right now. You can then use this in the summer.
     
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  24. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

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    grendal...when I saw that picture I really also thought it was a kid in the bag... Jerry really did over build that one for you... You may want to find a Nautilus Overbag to try for summer camping. I just measured mine and it is 80" tall not counting the hood and 32" wide...

    Grutin...just wondering what you are comparing when you say Wiggy's 40* bags are larger and heavier than everyone elses bags...down or synthetic? If you check the Wiggy's site their coolest mummy style bag is 35*...and that is the overbag. Their mummy sleeping bags start at 20 and work down to -60....

    I have the three 40* bags that Wiggy's builds (all rectangular) and just weighted them as I have never done so before...they are...in the stuff sacks:
    Desert: 3 lb. 3.0 oz
    Nautilus: 3 lb 7.8 oz
    Nautilus Overbag w/hood: 4 lb 6.0 oz

    As to rating I can tell you Wiggy's is as conservative with their ratings as the other makers are liberal with theirs. I have been down in the 30s with the Desert bag and been warm. Was down to 28* in the Nautilus and was just cool. Last spring I slept in the Nautilus Overbag inside a Kelty Classic Bivy and was warm at 28*. Now on those same trips people in other makers bags that were rated at 20-30*s were cold... So the question becomes how much more insulation does a 2.5# competitors bag that people are cold at 35* need before it becomes as warm as a Wiggy's 40* bag... Then you will have an apples to apples comparison of weight and bulk. As you say, there is no magic insulation so my guess is that they are going to need another pound and the bulk that goes along with it.

    And I don't sleep in clothes in my bags... I sleep in just underwear above 40* and Wiggy's fishnet underwear, wool socks and headcover below freezing. If in the 30s will just depend on conditions what I wear in the bag.

    As to Wiggy's elves weaving magic insulation and that there are many companies using Climeashield, that is most true...the difference is that once the insulation gets to the factory Wiggy's elves weave it into Lamalite and that is where the difference is. Once through the lamination process the Climeashield can no longer bunch or separate when used hard or laundered. I bought my Nautilus in 1998...it has been in continuous use ever since logging between 30-90 nights a year. And it has been washed 1-2 times a year every year. That is 18 years so probably 23-25 washings. It just came back from a three night trip in October and will be going for another 4-6 night trip in January...

    Made in the U.S.A., can be laundered at home, will custom make to order, life time guaranty, competitively priced and warmer than rated...

    That's why I buy nothing but Wiggy's...

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  25. Skotelawe

    Skotelawe Guide

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    Who exactly is being liberal with their ratings?

    What is the exact loft of a Wiggy's bag compared to another bags of the same rating?
     
  26. Brew-Jitsu

    Brew-Jitsu Supporter Supporter

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    Wiggys has some nice deals right now, and I just received my Super Light.

    I have several bags, but this one is really nice, especially on special.

    Sleeping Bag Sales + Specials @ Wiggy's, Inc.

    No experience with Kelly, but I love the Snug Pak Jungle Blanket @ $25. Curious about their bivvy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  27. Timex

    Timex Scout

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    As stated by Brew-Jitsu, check out that sale. I purchased my Wiggy's Superlight on a sale. If you go Wiggy's, purchase a good compression stuff sack. When used within the intended range, my Wiggys's bag is the most comfortable bag I own. I have been living in it while trying to get over a viral infection. It will stop the chills dead in their tracks. The zipper is first rate. I also have a Snugpack Elite 4. More of a true mummy bag....but the zipper is a show stopper. I don't think I have ever zipped / unzipped it without it hanging up.
     
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  28. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

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    1)...apparently a lot of makers because all of my friends and a LOT of other people I have read posts from keep saying over and over again that they are getting cold WAY before the supposed temperature rating of their bags... Yet when my friends have bought a Wiggy's bag all of a sudden they are warm at a temp lower than the rating of the bag...

    2)...don't know...you would have to take synthetic bags of the same rating and lay them side by side to see but more importantly one would have to actually sleep in the bags at least twice each to see if the ratings were accurate.

    As to "loft"...Wiggy's bags don't have any. They are flat. Down bags have to have a lot of loft because one has to heat the airspace as that is part of the insulation. Chopped staple bags have to have more loft than a continuous filament bag because there is lots of airspace and they like down bags have to have baffles that in a lot of bags cause cold spots to keep the insulation from shifting.

    Wool blankets have no loft...yet they are warm. But they are heavy compared to a down comforter because the airspace in a down comforter is part of the insulation. Sleep in a down bag on a cot with no insulation and you get a lot colder than in a synthetic bag or wool blanket of the same rating because they will do a better job of insulating you from the cot cover...been there done that.

    If one needs that smallest most compact sleep system made by all means get it...it is right for you. The last 10 years I backpacked I used a Wiggy's Desert Bag...never felt under any handicap. And I slept warm and dry every night.

    Bob
     
  29. designtom

    designtom Scout

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    Which sleeping bag companies aren't scandalously liberal with their temperature ratings? (it's a short list). I have a tremendous respect for the old made in the USA brown label The North Face sleeping bags of a by gone era. Even those tank like bags were over rated by 10-20 degrees.

    The real problem is the consumer (ie me) doing business with companies that lie to us. Perhaps I need to be more upfront with a sleeping bag manufacturer about what my goals are. I personally do not want the lightest weight for a claimed temperature rating. I want a lightest bag that will allow me to sleep comfortably. I'm willing to use two, three, four foam pads, and I want to sleep for 3.5 hours, empty my bladder, do some calisthenics, and sleep for another 3.5 hours. I'm not interested in what temperature I will be shivering, uncomfortable, or avoiding death. If it's labeled a sleeping bag, I'm planning on sleeping in it.

    To my mind, the benchmark in the industry has been Polarguard, now Climashield shingled bags made by The North Face. They're widely sold, proven, and perhaps the only sleeping bag manufactured continuously for 30 years. (and it looks like they've stop making them in 2014). The European Standard for sleeping bags initiated in 2005 helped quantify the degree of bogus-ness https://www.trekkinn.com/images/pdf/manuales/eng_the-north-face_manu_sleeptemp.pdf

    "extreme" rating. Very good for search and rescue crews to predict what kind of medical treatment you'll need if they actually find you while you're still clinging onto your last shred of life.

    "limit" rating. The rating that you'll being praying to your god, and swearing that if you survive this trip, you're going to flame every internet message forum with how you're sleeping bag manufacturer took your money, and you could only sleep for 60-90 minutes at a time. More practical people tend spend time in a bag rated to a "limit" contemplating their monthly budgets to find a way to purchase a new (better) sleeping bag. You will also swear that you will never, ever, under any circumstances leave your woobie home ever, ever, ever again.

    "unofficial, un-named" rating. I wore dry clothing, insulated slippers, a four point Hudson bay blanket, and a woobie, and got by just fine.

    "comfort" rating. Just what is says.

    I don't want to stick fingers at anyone ...... but the problem is that we've been cowed into accepting the "limit" rating, or the "unofficial, un-named" rating as being acceptable definitions.

    THEY'RE NOT !

    Please stop comparing one manufacturer's "comfort" rating with a different manufacturers "limit rating"


    I own two bags that I consider interchangeable. They both use Polarguard/Climashield.

    One has a comfort rating of 35 F and weighs 2lbs 12 oz according manufacturers website. I've used is as low as 18 degrees wit the help of the "unofficial, un-named" rating ad ons.

    The other one has a limit rating of 20 F, and per the manufacturer website weights 2 lbs 13 oz. It only keeps me comfortable down to 32/33 degrees. (which was validated when the manufacturer submitted their bag to the EN testing published above)

    Both bags have identical weights

    Both bags keep my comfortable to 35 degrees.

    Both bags can be made to work down to 20 degrees.

    I don't call one bag the 20 degree bag that sucks bag. I don't call the other bag the amazing 35 degree wunder bag.

    Many people call the 35 degree "comfort" rated bag "heavy"

    Many people call the 20 degree "limit" rated bag "light"


    Think I'm a little over the deep end on sleeping bags ? Wikipedia says the same thing. EN 13537 - Wikipedia
     
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  30. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    a hoodless 40* degree bag should not weigh 3lbs...
     
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  31. designtom

    designtom Scout

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    What should they weigh ?

    3 lbs 12 oz Kelty Kelty Discovery Sleeping Bag

    3 lbs 12 oz REI REI Siesta Sleeping Bag

    3 lbs 10 oz Marmot Marmot Mavericks 30 Semi Rectangular Outdoor Synthetic Sleeping B ...

    4 lbs 1 oz North Face DOLOMITE 3S | United States

    1 lbs 14 oz Mountain Hardware Hotbed™ Ember Camp Quilt
    (there's no temperature rating, but it's listed on there > 20 deg page}

    5 lbs 0 oz Coleman Coleman Heaton Peak 30° Sleeping Bag

    3 lbs 5 oz EMS EMS® Bantam 30 Degree Rectangular Sleeping Bag, Regular

    4 lbs 14 oz Sierra Designs Frontcountry Bed SYN / 30 Degree (Medium)

    3 lbs 0 oz Wiggys Nautilus Sleeping Bag (reported 3 lbs 7.8 oz above)


    FYI, as stated above, I'm only interested in sleeping in my sleeping bag. Unless there's an EN rating showing that the bag will be comfortable down to 40 degrees, or many of my peers (ie Bushcraft forum members) state that the temperature ratings for a bag are accurate, I will ALWAYS pick a 30 degree "rated" bag for a 40 degree night.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  32. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Guide Bushclass I

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    RMJ52, I replied in text in red.
    a 40* synthetic bag should weight right around 2lbs IMO. No more. I have a 20* bag that weighs less than 2lbs that has allowed me to sleep comfortably in wet, windy 30ish degree weather out in the open. Heck, you can get a 40* quilt that weighs 1 lb 2oz. So you could take TWO of them and still be lighter and less bulky than the Wiggy bags I've seen.

    I'm not saying they're bad, just stating that they are big and heavy.
     
  33. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

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    Gruntin...is your bag a mummy or a rectangular? All of mine are rectangular and the two Nautilus are VERY large. For me they are not 40* bags but more like 30*...no clothes on an insulated pad.

    Also please name the bags I would be very interested in getting one for a survival kit where space/weight is at a premium.

    Bob
     
  34. designtom

    designtom Scout

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    That's the rub. Who makes a synthetic bag that light that works?

    2 lbs 11 oz The North Face Cats Meow The North Face Cat's Meow 22 Sleeping Bag

    2 lbs 11 oz Mountain Hardware Lamina Mountain Hardwear Lamina Z Flame Sleeping Bag

    2 lbs 7 oz Marmot Trestles Marmot Trestles 20 Elite Sleeping Bag - Men's

    3 lbs 8 oz Sea to Summit Sea to Summit Basecamp Bt3 18 Sleeping Bag

    3 lbs 3 oz Thermarest Therm-a-Rest Saros Sleeping Bag - Long - REI Garage

    2 lbs 8 oz REI REI Lumen Sleeping Bag

    3 lbs 5 oz Alps Mountaineer Blue Springs   /   ALPS Mountaineering

    3 lbs 0 oz Wiggys backpacker Backpacker › Mummy Style Sleeping Bag


    Lightest synthetic bag I've seen in the woods more than once

    1 lb 10 oz Mountain Hardware Hyper Lamina Mountain Hardwear HyperLamina Spark Sleeping Bag
    Comfort rated to 41 degrees F
     
  35. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Guide Bushclass I

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    RMJ52, the user name is Grunt-in-Husaybah, just grunt, or Tyler please;)

    Mostly mummy, but some rectangular and some quilts. And an insulated pad is going to make a HUGE difference

    MSS patrol bag, can be had new for $20-40 weigh about 2- 2 1/2 lbs I think, and work for me into the 30s if new. It's a crapshoot with surplus as most of those have been stored compressed and dirty for long periods.

    Enlightened Equipment Prodigy 20* synthetic weighs 30oz

    USMC poncho liner with zipper. Warm into the 30s windy and wet with a bivy, 40s with nothing else.

    Snugpack jungle bag, I was fine in the 40s in 29 Palms

    If you have ANY sewing ability or know anyone who does you can make your own as well. And it will be smaller and lighter, whether it works for you or is comfortable or not is another story entirely. Comfort is entirely relative.

    And I fully subscribe to the newsletter of carry a lighter bag/quilt and supplement with clothing and skills if need be. YMMV
     
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  36. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

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    Thanks Tyler...

    I actually need something lighter for summer... At 40* rating the Wiggey's bags are too warm for me if it is in the 60s.

    Picked up a EUERKA Hoback bag a few years ago when Cabelas was selling that line of bags. It has no insulation at all. Have used it a couple of times and works ok if in the 60s...it packs tiny...

    I also HATE mummy bags. The only time I use one is when winter camping where it is in the single digits or below.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017
  37. Timex

    Timex Scout

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    In fairness. the Snugpack is packable-lightweight and compresses well not to mention extremely comfortable. The draft collar works very well.
     
  38. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    lol, face it dude. everyone wants you to be gruntin.

    I'll just leave that alone...

    :4:
     
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