2019 Central PA Winter meet up gear and questions.

Discussion in 'Pennsylvania' started by Juany118, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    The purpose of this thread is so people can do two thing.

    1. see what others are bringing. We are all likely to have heavier load outs than normal so, as an example, if 7 people attend having 7 axes and 7 saws, seems a tad redundant.

    2. Ask questions regarding what they should bring.

    -I will be bringing a 7 inch Corona folding saw and my trusty Kbar BK11 to assist with wood processing. I will also be bringing some chunks of fat wood and some birch bark, along with man made tinders, and a Sawyer squeeze water filter with the attachments to make it a gravity feed system (if I can find them.

    I have one question. I am still musing what to do regarding cook kit

    Option 1. Firebox Nano, planning on biofuel as primary but having an alcohol stove I can drop in as back up.

    Option 2. MSR pocket rocket 2.

    Just not sure which, if either set up, would perform better in January Temps.
     
  2. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    Alcohol needs a bit of priming to get going, but there's a reason the Swedes and Alaskans use it in winter. It works. A sheet of bark or small square of plywood will insulate it from the cold ground and help it vaporize better.

    Pocket Rocket/butane mix is going to be erratic if the temps get too low. Even sleeping with it in my bag to keep it warm, it cools off rapidly unless you maybe have an insulated sleeve for it (bottom and sides) and I've had issues with it even in the milder winters in LA (say temps in the high 20s first thing in the morning). Think it would be problematic in PA.

    Wood always burns. I'll probably bring my Nimblewill Nomad with alcohol backup. May decide on the MSR Simmerlite and white gas instead. Or all three!
     
  3. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Yeah, my plan was, in the case of alcohol, keep both my fuel and Esbit burner inside my coat next to me. I also have the carbon sheet for the Firebox so I figured between that, and putting the burner in the Firebox itself, I would have fair insulation from the ground if I went to use it. Was hoping that combined would help limit the amount of "priming time."

    Thanks for the advice. If I start doing more winter excusions I might invest in a whisper light or a multifuel stove.
     
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  4. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I put wood processing above all else when it comes to winter in PA, so my intention is to bring my bucksaw, my Junglas, and either a second small folding saw or a hatchet. It would probably be good if everyone that is able to process wood has the means to do so, but there will be a lot of redundancy so we can share. The camp spot is a hotbed of downed conifers, so if someone is in the need of fatwood then this will be your trip!

    I also considered bringing a gravity system for my Sawyer, but two things came to mind with it:

    1. The temps being so low, I'm concerned that the Sawyer will freeze and become unusable

    2. I didn't use a filter the last two winter trips to this location, as Tom's Run is beautifully clear mountain spring water (I fully support everyone having a filter, I'm just stating what I personally do)

    Random thoughts/questions:

    1. I have one of those GB splitting axes if anyone thinks that could be useful as well. Most of the wood we have gathered in the past has been sub-8" diameter it seems, but I'm more than happy to keep it in my van.

    2. I intend to leave a few various items close by in my vehicle, mostly extra gear to deal with cold weather. I'm going to throw in a wool blanket/extra jackets/etc. just in case someone has a tough go of it and needs a little extra warmth.

    3. Bring a sit pad or chair! I made this mistake once.

    I'm sure there will be more ill add as people begin discussing.
     
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  5. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    A recommendation for colder weather: bring a closed-cell foam pad (full size or some part of one) for the purpose of sitting on when hanging around, whether placing it on a camp chair, on a log/rock, on the ground. Keeps your butt and back warmer than just sitting on regular chair material or wet natural features.

    Other than that, sounds like folks have you covered on cold weather cook kit comments. Regarding #1, I think redundancy in bushcraft tools is kind of a point of pride at meets (have you see the "knife log" photos from other, admittedly warmer, trip reports? ;) ) .
     
  6. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Depending on post Holiday finances this trip may finally be the incentive to get the Samurai Ichiban saw. Also thanks for the info on the deadfall, if others don't need to start a supply I could use a re-supply on fat wood.

    I was thinking about the cold and filter as well but when it gets cold that goes into a pocket on my body during the day and my sleeping bag at night. That said with how cold it should be boiling water is very practical as it will cool faster. One of the things I like about my cook pot/mug is that it's over 900 ml so I can basically fill one Nalgene per boil.

    Also I never go even on a day hike without this... Screenshot_20181129-225322_Chrome.jpg

    And I will be doubling up my 4.4 R value air pad with the Thermarest z-lite accordion ground mat that someone can sit on if they lack a pad/seat.
     
  7. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    I firmly believe in one is none and two is one. This was more about the fact some people may be looking at a pack fit to bursting just with stuff to keep them warm and food. I know it's not "meat rock" but I was already thinking what to marinade the steaks I am planning on bringing and whether to bring bacon or scrapple, for all to partake in of course :).
     
  8. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    oh, were you looking for redundancy? How about our axe photo from last year...

    F0467175-95C7-4D9F-9424-B0A422AA9463.jpeg
     
  9. designtom

    designtom Men Of Action #43 Supporter

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    This might be a large group. I'm thinking that pre-made foil meals would allow many people to share fewer fires.
     
  10. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Well at least it should be cold enough that refrigeration shouldn't be a problem. I was planning, for myself, to just cook my person food on whatever stove system I bring. I'll save my "fire time" for when I cook "community meat"
     
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  11. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Two things came to mind when I saw your list here.

    1. How people handle water transport in that weather.
    2. Sleep systems.

    Water: Now I am planning on ditching my smart water bottles and going with 32oz Nalgenes that I will not only have in insulated sleeves, but that I will put upside down in my water bottle pouches so that the threaded caps don't freeze first. Has anyone come up with a better idea that has a similar weight?

    Also, if my sleep system below doesn't work out as well as I think, I can fill a Nalgene with water I boiled and throw it in my sleeping bag. If I tried that with a disposable bottle it would crinkle and collapse.

    2. Sleep system/shelter. My Zpack duplex knock off Lanshan 2 3f UL tent, a REI Lumen 20 degree bag and a Sea to Summit Reactor Plus Compact Thermolite Mummy Liner just in case it drops into the teens or lower. I am a warm sleeper so I think that will be adequate.

    Debating if I am going to bring a candle lantern to help deal with condensation inside the tent.
     
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  12. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    Juany, I don't think water is going to be a difficult issue... it's just not that cold in this climate... back in NY, maybe. As a Scout (Syracuse) and as a soldier (ft drum), we kept the canteens in a snow bank, upside down, and they did fine. at night, just stick it inside the bag with you. As mentioned, the creek is there, and running water seems to have a hard time freezing. The 2qt flexible canteen was a winter favorite in the army for a few reasons... 1, you could squeeze the air out and it wouldn't gurgle. 2, you could sling it inside your parka to keep it from freezing during the day, 3, if if did freeze, you could beat it some to break up the ice, more easily than with the standard 1qt hard plastic canteen.

    One thing I've always done is bring a sit pad... they're just too handy, in all seasons, not to bring one along. I too learned 'the hard way' that you need some back insulation in a chair, so in colder weather in LA, I used to bring several, to stack edge to edge in my bush chair. In this case, I will be bringing along a 3/4 length ccf pad to put under my air mattress, so it should serve as a suitable chair lining as well (I plan to schlep along a full sized folding chair for my old behind to sit in comfortably.)

    For sleep gear, I'll have at least the CCF pad and a NEO Air (may steal my daughter's Klymat V), as well as a 35* sleeping bag AND a 35* hammock underquilt. Doubled up, they've done pretty well for me in the past. But if Santa brings me a nice new 20 WM Alpinlite and insulated air mattress like I asked for, then I'll bring those. Oh, and I'm still wedded to my 10x10 plowpoint, though I may go with a slightly lower pitch (the Adirondack/Whelen) if it's too windy.

    Guess we're still too far south to get any decent level of snow on the ground... a few inches of snow under your mattress is actually warmer than the frozen ground, and dragging a pulk allows for some extra goodies like a cast iron pan, grill/grate, wool blanket, etc. As a Scout, we used an 8' toboggan with a 6'x15"x1' box on it. Guess we'll see.
     
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  13. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Seeker Ugggh Ft. Drum. I remember that place. I guess I am also planning for the possibility of aa polar votex, while on the whole the winters have been warmer lately, we have gotten at least one of those a year for the last few. I, obviously, tend to over plan lol.
     
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  14. Gecco304

    Gecco304 Scout

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    Has anyone here ever used the Military Sleep System?
     
  15. Gecco304

    Gecco304 Scout

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    Very nice. Been looking for one for this camp out. Do you know where to get the best price?
     
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  16. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    The MSS bag system can be awesome. The trick is getting one that hasn't been beaten into submission by it's previous owner.
     
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  17. Gecco304

    Gecco304 Scout

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    Thanks Halftreaded! I am also going to be stopping at a local surplus store in Chambersburg PA.
     
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  18. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

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    @Juany118

    Sadly, I won't be able to make this weekend due to a late Xmas with my side of the family.

    RE: our water issues.

    What I and other members here have done in the past on our winter trips is just to keep multiple pots of water on the boil or set near the fire to stay warm throughout the weekend. That way there's always and endless supply of hot water available when needed. And boiling water is all you need to do to purify.

    If you have a waterway that has a regular load of leaves or sediment, pick up either a Sea to Summit collapsible water bucket or a cheap one gallon paint bucket at the hardware store. You can tie a cord to the bucket to gather water without sticking your hands in the stream/lake and you can hang or set the bucket on the ground for awhile to let the particulates settle to the bottom. Then pour off the particulate free water on top and scrap the dregs (just like the grounds when making cowboy coffee). This is a good trick to use during summer as well as it allows you to filter the water after letting the particles settle out, thus extending your filter life.

    Re: Water over night. Get wide mouthed Nalgene bottles. They don't freeze as quickly as the narrow. Boil up some water before bed, fill your Nalgenes, then stick them in a wool sock and place them in your sleeping bag before you climb in. Once you're in your bag, place the bottles in your boots to keep them from getting too cold overnight and to insulate your bottles. The water should still be luke warm by morning.

    And remember, water expands by 9% when frozen. Make sure you leave room in your bottles for expansion in case they freeze or you won't have a water bottle long.
     
  19. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    @Sandcut, sorry to hear that... was hoping to finally meet you. Thanks for the boot/sock/water bottle tip... never heard of that.

    @Gecco304, I've not used the current MSS, only its predecessor. The goretex bivy cover was heavier than needed, but like most military gear, very durable. The bag inside was synthetic and fairly worthless in extreme cold, bulky regardless, and most of the time, we used a poncho, the bivy, and a poncho liner inside to sleep with. You set up the poncho to cover your torso and pack, and stuck the bivy out one side; if it got rained on, so be it. I also saw guys do this wearing rubber rain pants and boots. Exhaustion does wonders for your ability to sleep through discomfort. The current system of using varied thicknesses of bags is a vast improvement, but as with all synthetics, i worry about loss of loft over time, as well as the bulk. As part of a backpacking system, I wouldn't look at it. As part of a pulk-transported system, it might have value.
     
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  20. Forestcactus

    Forestcactus ate a bug once Supporter

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    I hit up Roman's all the time, neat little store. I got an n3b parka there for this trip. I was mulling over my sleep system as well, ill be using the mss bivvy but a 0° mummy bag i got on amazon for 75 bucks inside it. I'm not sure what temps to expect but i live 20 minutes from michaux and last january it was hitting -3 at night here fairly regulary if i'm not mistaken. The full mss is just too heavy for me personally, I have a freind who is selling all but the bivvy for 20 or so bucks. I can see what condition its in if you like.
     
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  21. Gecco304

    Gecco304 Scout

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    Please do.
     
  22. Chris keating

    Chris keating Scout

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    I’m good at staying warm short term, but as the cold seeps in is where your systems are important, I’m mostly concerned about feet and hands. Currently using Costco wool socks and marmotfleece lined gloves. Do you guys wear two pairs of socks, insulated boots or both? Wool liners in larger gloves? For layering it’ll be solkweight underwear ecwcs lvl 2 under wear,wool over shirt, down jacket /wind stopper. Buff ,toque .thoughts?
     
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  23. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I usually use the MSS bivy with a Wiggy's 20* bag inside. I don't get cold very easily though and I can sleep through a gunfight. The temps dropped fairly low last year, but nothing too crazy and remember that no matter where you decide to park, you won't be too far away from your vehicle in case you need to grab more.

    Although the trip is roughly a month+ away, I will be waiting to figure out what sleep system I will be going with until I see the averaging temperatures and whether the ground will be dry/wet/snow. My hope is to be able to set up a lean-to with my 10x10 and go lighter with my sleep system this time. Last year I pitched low to the ground and it made it difficult to relax in the shelter. I want to apologize to everyone ahead of time though, as I just picked up a NeoAir Xlite pad off the forums here so it might sound like I'm sleeping on a bag of potato chips .

    Oh, and Tom's Run was flowing strong last year in the cold. I just took a pot down to fill up, and then left it by the flames.
     
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  24. designtom

    designtom Men Of Action #43 Supporter

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    https://www.wiggys.com/sleeping-bags/by-temperature-rating/0-degrees/

    5 lbs, always works, with compression sack I can find a way to get it where it needs to go. Available in sizes for those of us who passed the 200 lb mark. (sure I'd like to try a Feathered Friends or a Western Mountaineering, but I don't see that happening any time soon).

    Personally, I'd rather have the warmest bag that always works, rather than the lightest bag that usually works.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Yeah and when you find an "unused" one, and look at the price they charge you realize for cheaper you can do the following...

    -REI Lumen 20 degree bag (often on sale for $100.00) weight 2.2 lbs
    -Sea to Summit Reactor plus (50 bucks) weight 9 oz.
    -2gosystems trifecta in bivvy configuration (60 bucks). 13 oz.

    In therory the liner and bivvy should add around 40 degrees to the total system.

    The MSS costs more (unused) than the above set up, weighs over 7 lbs (the bivvy alone is 2+). One other thing to note is that the ratings given on the MSS are actually the "extreme" ratings, not "low" (comfort for warm sleepers) or "comfort" (comfort for cold sleepers).

    The benefits of the above (or similar) custom set up I would say are not only weight and cost but the 2go Trifecta can also be used as a tarp/shelter, blanket, ground cloth, even a match coat. With that many uses I really don't count the Trifecta as part of the price of the sleep system as it's worth bringing for so many other purposes in all seasons.

    I think this set up can handle most of what PA can throw at you, especially if you have a shelter or tent over you as well.

    If anyone hasn't seen the Trifecta yet https://www.2gosystems.com/products/trifecta?variant=5897656453
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  26. Chris keating

    Chris keating Scout

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    @Juany118 i have the lumen and the reactor liner(not the plus) maybe I’ll just add ccf pad. i too have a potato chip bag sleeping pad , the rei flash. It’s a bit noisy. Bring an extra 40 degree bag as an overbag , leave it in the. Car.
     
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  27. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    That sounds like a good set up. Here is my set up (sans gloves, I am thinking about swapping them around this year. Same with pants

    Head/neck. Simply.wool beenies, UA infrared balaclava, Buff and a shemag.

    Chest: my layering here gets a little crazy. Synthetic long John top, tech tee, fleece or wool 1/4 zip, if need be Eddie Bauer 700 fill down jacket, top layer Eddie Bauer hard shell. My preference for baselayers is EMS Techwick

    Legs: usually just base layer + DWR Tru-spec Xpedition pants. I am considering stepping up to either adding rain pants on top of that or bonafide insulated pants. Still a work in progress.

    Feet: Vasque Coldsparks with wigwam sock liners and wigwam wool/silk socks. Mountain Warehouse gaiters.

    One suggestion on feet. Go to an autoparts store and buy a cheap metallic sunshade. Take your boots insoles out and Trace them and cut them out. Put them under your regular insoles and you have something that is reflecting your heat back at you. I suggest these because they are "bubble wrap" vs the ones from a dollar store that are CCF. A reflective surface only works if there is an air barrier, which the bubble wrap supplies. Without the air barrier the reflective surface actually removes heat via conduction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  28. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    My pad system is the Therm-a-rest z-lite which will go under a Klymit Insulated pad. The combined R-Value from that is almost 7. Since the Klymit is a mass drop and the Z-lites are pretty cheap it's a bang for the buck system.

    One thing, I do not recommend reflectix and the like as a ground pad on TOP of your regular ground pad, as some suggest. They work as emergency blankets because you have an air space between you and it. If you just lie on it though there is no airspace/medium for reflection to take place and it instead becomes a conductor taking heat away. If you are going to use it as a ground mat of sorts make sure it's under an air pad. The pad will create the airspace necessary for reflection.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  29. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    I’m a Southern boy, so won’t be there.

    But I would think one of the coolest things would be to check out and compare gear. If someone has seven axes, then they are into axes and I would learn a lot by getting to handle them.

    If I were going I would bring all my five world-class hatchets and enjoy letting people compare.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  30. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Pack porn (since I got a new pack AND I have to stay up late as I have to work 8pm to 8am tomorrow.). The pack, a newly arrived Granite Gear Crown2 60. I wear the "lid" as a chest rig hanging it from carabineers. This is basically my load out for January, unless the weather reports dictate I should also bring a bivy for CYA.

    Pack gear (no lid)

    20181203_233458.jpg

    Gear put in outside pockets remain (Deer Park bottles are Nalgene stand ins)
    20181203_234003.jpg left side is tools (saw, fire kit, trekking poles). There is still plenty of room in that pocket too. In the right side water bottles. Tyvex, sit pad and rain jacket in front pocket, still room enough for the tent fly if wet as well.

    Next you see the gear in "the lid". Since its the chest rig its all the stuff I need quick. Trowel and tp (leave no trace) second knife, a Mora Kansbol, (first is a KBar BK11 "Becker necker), cordage, water filter and bags, head lamp and pack cover. 20181203_234757.jpg

    Everything packed away, snacks (which with the short hike in likely won't be necessary) is why I have hip belt pockets. :). I honestly think this roll top + lid that can be adapted for a chest rig (or discarded entirely) maybe the most efficient way to design a pack. I was tempted to wait for the 2019 Blaze which is essentially the same design, just a heavier pack with a 40+ lbs load limit vs 35 but then I realized the load limit of 35 lbs will make me pack smarter.

    20181203_235446.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
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  31. Forestcactus

    Forestcactus ate a bug once Supporter

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    Just rebuilt the pump in this little guy last year. Bought it when i was 10. Should handle whatever temps get thrown at it (to the best of my knowledge) not too bad for being the same age as me. 20181204_054551.jpg
     
  32. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Does anyone have experience with different bivy sacks? The only ones I've used are the SOL Escape and then the MSS bivy that I currently use, but when it comes to the winter I usually feel a bit restricted when I have my sleep pads and Wiggy's inside of it. I primarily use it for the water resistance, and don't depend on it adding degrees towards my system.

    Also, I've been considering replacing my Bahco Laplander with a Silky with the purpose of processing firewood faster/more efficiently. My Bahco blade got a nice bend to it the last time I used it, and I would rather not replace saws so easily.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  33. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    In terms of bivvy's I think the 2Go systems Trifecta has more space than the SOL. As for saws, ever look at the Samurai Ichiban? I have heard stellar things about that.
     
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  34. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I never would have thought about a small cot setup, might be a good idea instead of a bivy. I can imagine it would work even better in winter when you can fill the void underneath with pine/leaves to insulate empty air space.

    I've never heard of the Samurai Ichiban, but I'm going to do some research on that tonight. My brain has been fixated lately on a Silky Bigboy or the Katanaboy.
     
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  35. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    I suspect that depends on why you have the bivvy. As an example, if you are looking to take a 20 degree bag down to zero without using a liner, would the cot serve the purpose? On the other hand if you were simply looking for protection from ground water under a tarp only set up, the cot indeed could work.
     
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  36. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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  37. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    Yeah. Now some packs may not carry it easy but with all the compression straps on my new pack I have plenty of places to lash it. I have that on my Christmas list.
     
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  38. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I went to the interwebs to watch reviews of that Samurai Ichiban and ended up buying a camp chair. I don't know why I'm trusted with a credit card...

    @HalfTreaded still planning to tarp this trip? Or will this tent replace your tarp?
     
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  39. Kurt992

    Kurt992 Guide Lifetime Supporter Bushclass II

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    I use a single pair of Costco wool socks and insulated boots for most of my winter trips and they usually work pretty well. When you double up socks, you run the risk of compressing the loft and restricting circulation in your feet. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t double up, just make sure your boots are large enough for 2 pair. Another thing that works for me is to occasionally take my boots off by the fire and rest my heels on the toe of the boot. The fire warms the feet quickly and dries out the socks. (You’ll see steam).

    My hands always get cold, so I take a couple pair of gloves/mittens. My go to woods combo is a pair of military wool gloves inside of a pair of leather gloves that have been treated to make them water resistant. This combo is durable enough for camp chores and won’t melt when stoking the fire or grabbing hot cook wear. With a good coating of snow seal or something similar, they will stand up to snow and light moisture. I supplement that with a pair of mittens and glove liners.

    I am enjoying this thread and wish I lived closer so I could join this outing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  40. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    I am loving the Wigwam silk wool socks I just got. I will likely wear wicking liners though. Those with 200gr of thinsulate in my boots and gaiters and I think I am golden.
     
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  41. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    @HalfTreaded I will be tarping again, I don't even own a tent or hammock anymore. A big part of me is also saying to make this a minimal gear trip, since we have no idea what the weather will be like yet. I'm sure I'll repack once the weather reports come out.

    Screenshot_20181208-095413~2.png
     
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  42. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I appreciate the offer, but I think I'm going to stick with my tarp and try a different configuration. Might just have a better system this year, but I was toasty warm last year.
     
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  43. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    I think I have less outdoors time in the cold than other folks here, so take this with a grain of salt, but one system that has made a significant improvement for me is moisture management in the form of using "vapor barriers" as part of my sock system. My traditional system for years has been socks inside of insulated, waterproof boots. They work alright, but consistently after 4+ hours of active movement outside in the winter, my feet would have put out enough moisture that they would just start getting cold, even if I ate a warm meal and did squats/hiked uphill to get blood flowing to my feet through exercise.

    I originally tried to address this by switching socks part way through the day, but I've found that my waterproof insulating boots are also great at holding in moisture in the insulation of the boot, so even a sock switch didn't stop the end-of-day chill from setting in. What does help, however, is if I use a vapor barrier material to stop moisture from my feet getting into my socks in the first place. By vapor barrier I mean anything that doesn't let moisture through, or does so very, very, very slowly: I've used plastic bread and grocery bags, saran wrap, and coated nylon (the nylon lets moisture through slowly). All of these become my first "sock" layer, and them my actual wool socks go over the vapor barrier and then into my boots.

    This way, my feet might still get chilled towards the end of the day, but my socks stay dry enough that it's trivial to use a good meal and some exercise to get blood flowing back through my feet and feel the warmth that's then captured by my socks. I have to make sure the fit of the vapor barrier won't give me blisters (or cut off circulation--the saran wrap can't be wrapped too tight) and that I make time to air out my feet (usually while sleeping), but it's been very helpful for a problem I've otherwise been unable solve in winter conditions that are warm enough to make wet snow a common issue (where I want to wear waterproof and insulated boots, versus cold and dry enough to just go with traditional mukluks, etc.).
     
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  44. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    I'm working on what (new) boots, but I agree, double socks isn't always the best idea if they squeeze your feet. I too like to air them out occasionally, and I prefer a removable felt liner vs 'lined' boots. You can also swap two pairs of liners, just like socks, partway through they day, if you buy the extra ones (some boots come with two sets). Another option is to wear a plastic bag over your socks and keep the liners from getting sweaty... however, this requires frequent attention to changing socks during the day or you can get into trouble quick.

    For my hands, I've never found any gloves to be warm enough by themselves... you can work in wool with a leather shell over them if you have to, but I'm planning on a pair of wool gloves inside an army mitten shell (not the ECW ones, but the normal trigger finger mitten shells). They have a buckskin palm that works well if Sno-Sealed, and a canvas back and gauntlet that work well repelling snow and wind. I really like them.
     
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  45. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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  46. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Hey @HalfTreaded whats the size of that tent all packed down? Either I didn't expect it to be that large or your side table is a lot smaller than it appears to me.
     
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  47. Odinborn

    Odinborn Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Anyone have a recommendation for boots? I planned on using my old hunting boots (LaCrosse with 700 or 800grams thinsulate), however my feet must have grown since I wore them last, and now my toes touch the end. Just so you know, I cant afford much so telling me that a pair of Sorels or Hanwags isn't going to happen.

    I can use my work boots like I did last year, but they got wet pretty quick plus they're steel toe so I had to change socks a lot.
     
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  48. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    I really dig the Vasque Coldsparks snow boots. They are waterproof, have 200 grams of Thinsulate and are pretty light as well. They also have a differentially hard sole, some soft, some hard which gives better traction, I'm in the "it's dirt, now it's rocks" terrain we deal with in PA.

    I had them on a 30 degree hike where I had to walk between a half and a full mile in ankle deep water, sometimes shin deep. @HalfTreaded can attest to the "wet" on the Mill Creek trail. Unlike when we did it together however I chose to test the boots by not avoiding the near frozen running water this time. Between the boots and my gaiters my feet were dry and toasty with only a pair of Wigwam silk/wool socks. In my experience feet get colder in such water than in actual snow.

    The only thing is you may need to go half a size up since they fit small.
     
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  49. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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    On a side note, while such things are subject to change this far out the AccuWeather extended forcast has highs 30s and lows from the twenties to the mid teens for that weekend, with overcast skies.
     
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  50. Juany118

    Juany118 Supporter Supporter

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