358 Norma Magnum

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Cwlongshot, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I have made the leap!

    I have been planning on building one for more then twenty years. Last year I bought a host gun to be used as a action. Some years back found some Brass someone was selling as 358 Winchester. :18: Some years before that a fella on GBO sold me some Dies and Brass. I have been hording some old excellent Speer 250g bullets for decades... I have been holding all this waiting for the day I built the gun.
    I was on the phone with another buddy from GBO, and mentioned that I was gonna start building the rifle. He said, “I know where there is one!”
    Couple days later I had sealed the deal with a nice guy over on yet another board, from down in Texas. We spoke, traded emails and finally, I sent him some funds last week. MAN, MAIL IS SLOW TO TEXAS!!!! :( I am still, Hopping to have the rifle shipped to me this weekend.

    The rifle is a a early 1970’s Winchester Magnum action. A push feed, that JES rechambered about ten years back. The orig caliber was 7mm Rem magnum its a 26” barrel of med magnum, contour. So its not light nor overly heavy for caliber. It is re stocked in a Bell & Carlson stock, thats been painted Tan/Kaki. (Its getting a web paint job first thing, as I don't care for the tan color too much, even tho I have a few Rugers in it I didn't really have much choice in them.) The gun is said to have shot very well and is coming with some of his data that shot well for him. It also comes with my favorite Leupold Dual Dovetail rings for extra strength. I have a set of Med & Low matte rings, shipping to me now.
    As to the stock. I do like B&C and my Whelen and 6.5/06 are both stocked in different B&C stocks.

    Any one have this caliber or have any data they care to share?

    Looking for ward to this even tho the first Grizz has yet to be sighted here in New England. :rolleyes::9:

    Pics will be posted, once I have it in hand.


    CW
     
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  2. BladeScout

    BladeScout Scout

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    Not too shabby. Congrats.
    Nope, dont own one. Do have a .458 LOTT though:D
     
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  3. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    Nope, another .458WM guy here. BTW Cast bullets are really fun in the big calibers.
     
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  4. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    ...like you don't have anything else to shoot this weekend....:17:
     
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  5. whtshdwwz

    whtshdwwz Supporter Supporter

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    I have had 358 NM for 30 plus years...great all around cartridge....I will send you some of my notes if I can find them after my relocation.... very flexible platform....I gravitate to the 338 WM due to better availability in a pinch but both are great.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  6. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks guys!!

    45/70 is my only .458 Launcher. But YES YES GREAT CAST BOOLIT CHOOTERS ALL!!!

    THANK YOU Whtshdwwz!! That would be most appreciated!!!

    A good friend has a couple 458’s. Shoots his 458 2” most these days. Its more frugal on powder and says it breaks clays on 150y berm just as well!! :D

    CW
     
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  7. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    That’s one of the few .35’s I’ve never owned, though year’s ago (early to mid 70’s) when I was stationed in Europe (on my first tour in Europe) a buddy of mine had one built on a Mauser action. It was a nice rifle in a very useful/capable caliber!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  8. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    At one time I did own a Steyr Model S/T chambered for 9.3x64mm Brenneke. I had a Kahles 1.5x6 with a 30mm tube mounted using Steyr’s swing mounts. The 9.3 x64mm Brenneke is nearly identical to the .358 Norma round, except in “European clothing”, so to speak. But that’s about as close as I ever came to having the .358 Norma.

    As an aside, when I bought the Steyr, the manager of the Darmstadt (FRG) American Rod and Gun Club had five boxes of RWS ammo on hand for the 9.3x64mm. They were loaded with the 285 grain H-Mantel bullets. As that 9.3 ammo had been sitting on his shelf for quite some time, he offered to sell it all to me for a deal. As it’s been awhile, I don’t recall the exact price, but I do remember it was about 30% of the retail price at that time; I took all five boxes. They proved to be very capable rounds!

    I loved that particular Rod and Gun Club, it was on Cambrai-Fritsch Kaserne in Darmstadt, and I did a lot of wheeling and dealing with that manager over that three year tour! That particular tour was during the mid 80’s (during my third and final tour to Europe), good times!:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  9. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    USPS did finally come thru!! Funds arrived last week & the rifle was shipped to my dealer. Looking forward to early this weeks delivery.

    Low rings arrived too. Waiting on the mediums still.

    Gonna mount a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40 matte for now. Its been a floater scope for me. Maybe it stays maybe I buy new/different.

    I sized most of my brass I have on hand. Seller has some supplies we are working out costs.
    I loaded a box using my cast n powder coated 230g Ranch Dogs over 23.5g of Trailboss. Thats a non compressed full case of powder. Should be fun/mild loading.

    CW
     
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  10. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    CC50A571-D224-4BC7-8E5F-C6E85099703C.jpeg I picked up the rifle yesterday.

    Its very nice and well taken care of. Its a 1973 M70 barreled action orig a 7RM.

    Was not so sure about Green Cera kote on bbl. But its pleasant enough looking. The stock looks brand new and IS getting re-painted. Thinking grey w/blk web spatter. Should look OK against the drab Green steel. Barrel is 24” and std med contour not med heavy. Weight is “Nice” I didnt weigh it. Might wish for more weight if it proves a recoiler. :)

    I re-scoped it from Leupold 2-8 With Nikon Monarch 3x9 as its matte and the Leupy was Gloss. The glass quality should be on par with each other.

    The barrel was as copper fouled as any I had seen. I was not surprised as I have seen a couple JES rebores and they are never smooth. BUT cleaned out quick and easy telling me its likely exactly that, a rough bore. I have a fresh tub of JB Bore paste. ;)

    I used Leupold Dual Dovetail Med Matte rings. I could have gone low, but I have used Bell & Carlson stocks before and there hi comb mitigates recoil well but dose t allow the lowers scope mounting. The pad is a bit hard. My thoughts where that I might swap in a Kick EEZ pad if the stock was long. But its LOP is a bit shorter than preferred and 1/4” LONGER than I like for a winter rifle. So Ill just shoot it and decide later.

    I checked and set my dummies for reloading. Its got a short throat and dosent like my .360 sized cast. So thats a bummer. Ill play with dia first and throat it later if I dont get what I want. I hoped to be able to shoot my new 230 RD but it would require very deep seating. My 200 rn would work fine but not a preferred design. My RCBS 210 would also likely be fine and I may try that. I have a awesome NOE 280 but its a bit of a bore rider and thats a no go @ 360 might be @ 358.... Time will tell.

    I have a couple hundred Hornady 200 FTX. SO ill probably make up a shooter/range loading with them to start.

    Over all Im very happy with it.
    CC50A571-D224-4BC7-8E5F-C6E85099703C.jpeg
    CW
     
  11. JoeJ

    JoeJ Supporter Supporter

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    Always wanted a 358 Norma but when the time came I went with the 378 Weatherby. I had iron sights but mounted a 1X5 Leupold on it. Great looking rifle you have there - congratulations.
     
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  12. JeffG

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    Good looking rifle, congrats!
     
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  13. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    B55D8A4A-CE73-4B86-BC0F-8F483F0658B2.jpeg
    Part of me wanted to just mount a 1-4 Leupold!! I also have a nice 2.5-8 but its gloss.

    Loaded up some test loads with 200G Hornadys and 4350.

    CW
     
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  14. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    Good powder choice!
     
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  15. racetrack

    racetrack Supporter Supporter

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    Have you done a pound cast yet to see what you are really dealing with?
     
  16. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Nope. If I get serious I have a couple bars of cerosafe.


    CW
     
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  17. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    Nice rifle! I have to say, those .358 Norma Magnums look a bit longer than my .350 Remingtons. ;)
     
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  18. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    2.519 cases opposed to your 2.170”

    Pretty close ballistics with lighter bullets. 3175/3050 for a 200g. But the distance grows with 225, 250, 275 & 300g boolits. :p I can push 300’s lil faster than you can a 250. BUT thats also using a 24” for me and a 18 or 20” For you! o_O:rolleyes: So over all pretty close!

    I like the idea of the 350 too but as I was build in on a std length action so carryin a longer action with a shorter cartridge seems foolish. Long action = long cartridge!

    CW
     
  19. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    I agree with you on taking full advantage of your action length, no sense in wasting case space. The only time a smaller case has an advantage is when down loaded for reduced loads, and even then I’d be better off still with a .358 Winchester. I like the idea of the.358 Norma, it’s a very capable cartridge and I’ve just not had the opportunity yet to own one!:)

    Hoping you fully enjoy yours!
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  20. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    9924960A-9C75-496F-843C-C4C128016A51.jpeg THANK YOU!!!

    I loaded up some 225g Noslers to night. I also sized down various cast bullets and I am relieved to say I am able To size my 230RD to 358 and seat just a tad deeper and it chambers smoothly.

    CW
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  21. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    Glad you finally found a way to use cast....did you choose a color yet...:4:
     
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  22. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    First Batch was purple/blue. This one kinda fugly matte brown/copper.

    CW
     
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  23. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    You need to lay out all the colors and let the Dog pick one...
     
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  24. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    OK,

    I have had big troubles with pop ups and haven’t been able to access the site.

    Seems better so UPDATE TIME:

    I shot the rifle some 40 times Sunday.

    Lead was OK, shooting @ 1500fps W/ trail boss & 2” 50y accuracy.

    5 different jacketed loads W/ 3 bullets ALL fell MOA or better! This was also from THREE DIFFERENT SHOOTERS! ALL pinwheeled a 1/8” dot @ 50 yards three times each.

    A 200 Hornady Spitzer @ 2575fps , aHornady 200FTX @2655 FPS & a 225 Nosler BT @ 2675fps all W/ IMR4350 powder.

    VERY VERY Pleased!!

    CW
     
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  25. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    That's great! :35: I think you need a little more horsepower with your lead loads. Let me know if you want data.
     
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  26. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I DO want some different data!

    I’ll make a inventory of stock powders n Bullets & get back to ya! Last bunch is GREAT, but your right tons of powders I’ll never ever see let along own or use...

    CW
     
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  27. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Looks like Ill be building loads on the Speer 250g

    I dont really like it as I have said before Speer has left me hanging many times discontinuing a given preferred bullet.

    This time ill be ready. I have two boxes now and I have five more coming from a fellow on another board gracious enough to offer them to me.

    I have read much good about the bullet. Its a Hot Core design. Over on the Alaska board where the 358 has a proper following they like the bullet. So looks like Its a good choice.

    CW
     
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  28. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    250 Speer i supposed to be a real winner.... That bullet has been around for a LONG time and is not likely to be discontinued...

    Have you tried the 250 Hornady RN and Spire Point? I fired some RN from the .358 Frontier and it went three rounds touching at 50 yards...

    Bob
     
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  29. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    HELLO BOB!!

    Thats what I keep reading!!

    I have most of a box of Hornady RN and a couple boxes of the old Speer 250RN and part of a box of Grand slam 250 speer. I bought almost 200 Norma Oryx 250g frim the last owner. I also was just gifted a box of custom swaged 240g spitzers. I have t tried any yet!

    CW
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  30. whtshdwwz

    whtshdwwz Supporter Supporter

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    I couldn't find my old notes....there are 637,821 more boxes to unpack....I do recall having great luck with both 225 and 250 grain Nosler Partitions....I am still debating building another 358 NM on an early Browning BLR action...Christmas may come early.
     
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  31. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I appreciate the efforts!!! Im sure you will come across them!

    CW
     
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  32. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    As a friend just reminded me...I am experiencing the joys of a custom chambering...

    I bought a set of dies some years ago. Apparently they where built on a set if dims not used today... mostly speaking to the diameter of the case body. What the problem is is some cases fired from some guns are larger... enough larger cause its not a sammi spec caliber. These dies are actually removing brass from these cases. I tried polishing the die and it did not mangle the cases as badly, but I still cannot use these dies for cases not fired from this rifle. Cases from this rifle seem to be ok for re sizing in these dies. I have a couple hundred cases to size and only 37 fried in this chamber.

    SO, a new set if RCBS dies where ordered and received.

    I set up the dies. Sized 10 cases and THEY WOULD NOT CHAMBER!! :mad:

    Seems the new dies even I am camming over pretty strongly... the shoulder is not correct position. (Remember this is a custom chamber so mine could be shorter and my brass fired in a chamber that longer... Plus this magnum is best when Head spaced off the shoulder not the belt. SO, I surface ground .002 off the shell holder re set the cam over and repeated this three times until finally the bolt closed smoothly and without any resistance.

    Now I can begin loading, stay tuned!

    CW
     
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  33. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    57CEE49B-79DF-43F3-BC87-AB1AEA0AE5D9.jpeg 5AAA94DA-17A8-4F4B-9EB5-8C01A895F649.jpeg A6D80037-4D64-490E-B224-E48F1A3FFE82.jpeg Last night I sized, trimmer and primed 40 cases. I checked every one and they are perfect.
     
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  34. turtlepwr281

    turtlepwr281 Guide

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    Those are just a bit over 358 Winchester speeds! Get yourself some CFE223 and throw those puppies out at 3k :dblthumb:

    I tried to find something reasonable for cast with quickload, but that's such a gigantic case. There's lots of slower powders that may work, but it takes quite a lot of it and I was concerned about the powder not burning consistently at such low (20,000 psi) pressures, or faster powders exploding in such a large case with such low loading density. That's why i didn't send any your way. The dinky 358 is where it's at for cast. Ya'll need a second rife :16:
     
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  35. Silvercreek Farmer

    Silvercreek Farmer Tracker

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    Nice. Keep it coming!
     
  36. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Im a 35 cal nut... before that unfortunate boating accident that is. :mad::12:

    357 Magnum rifles and revolvers, 357 Maximum carbines and rifles, 35 Remingtons is multi flavors, 356 & 358 rifles and 35 Whelen too! :dblthumb:

    Alas now... The NM can do it all. :rolleyes::D

    CW
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  37. dougx

    dougx Scout

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    I never wanted a 358 Norma mag but I do have a 7mm mag weatherby in the safe that doesn't get shot much. I have a 357 mag, 35 rem, 358 winchester and 35 whelens. Maybe I do need to send the weatherby to JES.
     
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  38. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I hear ya Doug!!

    I too have about the same. But i have had the “itch” for nearly 25 years. NO, I dont “need” it. My Whelen will do nearly 90% of what this will. Until you step up the 250+ G. My Whelen is hard to hit 2475... today I broke 2750fps WO/ pressure signs. :dblthumb:

    I was shootin it more today.

    Im working up loads on a 250g bullet and IMR 4350 powder. I have a couple hundred ea of Norma ORYX & Speer SP’s. So far, Im past 74g and doing fine. Not sure I “NEED” more. As the ORYX cracked 2750 fps today. The Speers with same load are a bit slower at 2720 avg. No appreciable pressure signs. (Case head or primer) Recoil was noticeable but not excessive in past 2700 loadings. The KickEEZ pad that I fit this am is doing a marshals job removing the sting! I shot about sixty rounds today starting at 69g IMR4350.

    Last two rounds I had where 73 & 73.5g and they hit the 100y within 3/4” of each other @ poa.

    Im real happy with this rifles so far!

    CW
     
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  39. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    A0294204-4B41-4C99-A104-D3EFC42D86EE.jpeg 6034B412-D5ED-4506-BCF4-D9F37744F9B4.jpeg I ran a few numbers...

    :eek::eek:o_Oo_O

    CW
     
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  40. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    Good work!
     
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  41. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I ordered a new mold last night.

    Its a 270g Plain base Ranch Dog style.

    I have a bore rider 280g but W/ powder coat its too large. I hear NOE offers a NOSE SIZER, I need to look I to this more.

    Anyhow this new mold has a 25cal meplat and a nice taper thats about .350 right ahead of first driving band and tapes away enough so my .004-.006 Powder coat (some colors) should be OK.

    I have a NOE 360-232 now and it works well enough with very close profile. (Its a RD copy) I want more weight. To give you idea of my thinking... Im shooting this 230g in my Maxi and Legend with less than 1/3 the powder cap of the Norma Magnum.

    Im not looking for velocity. :p

    CW
     
  42. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    BAFED6A5-B6F2-4982-B578-78B008DE0E04.jpeg Loaded some trailboss loads last night. Case full of powder under a 190grain WFNGC bullet. Should give 1800 fps ish.
    Fun light recoiling practice type round. But if needed plenty for close range deer. It about duplicates my lead 357 maximum loads I have taken dozens of deer with.

    CW
     
  43. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    WHAT A DANDY LOADING!!!

    These TB loads clocked just shy of 1700 fps. Offered very little recoil and shot VERY WELL! They touched at 50 yards and shot about golfball groups out at 100.

    I final sited the full house 250g loads clocking at 2780 fps. 1.25” high at 100 resulted in about 2” low out at 250. By the time I got to 200, the wind had picked up so my group was strung a bit vertically. But was less the. 3/4” high and 2.75” long.

    CW 1A699CA6-ABCD-4135-BFA0-B13BE718C215.jpeg
     
  44. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    1CBD1724-532B-484E-8A52-6A0FDDA0B42C.jpeg D7452419-CEC6-4538-907A-BAF1A923DAB0.jpeg Here is the powder coated trail boss cast loads @ 50 (top) and @ 100 (bottom pic more holes too)

    CW
     
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  45. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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  46. JeffG

    JeffG Guide

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    Those look great!
     
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  47. Ken Delano

    Ken Delano Tracker

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    I bet that .358 Norma will really hammer elk or moose - if you can get them to shoot it. :33:
     
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  48. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    ...wonder how much a bullet would weigh if you took the nose from the red bullet on the right from crimping groove up and added it to the body of the red bullet in the center...

    Love the paint job on the 280 RN....
     
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  49. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Thats my “Granite” color! I like it too!

    Id say about two fity...:9:

    CW
     
  50. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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