Airguns!

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Log_Lump, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Is there any fellow Air Rifle Enthusiast in our amazing forum? If so, Let's get a good convo going and hook some unsuspecting powder burners. ;)
     
  2. central joe

    central joe Wait For Me!! Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Quiet a few here, myself included. I use springers now, but also have Benjamin pumpers. joe
     
  3. PAcanis

    PAcanis Bushmaster Lifetime Supporter

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    Haha, I see what you did there ;)

    Love airguns. The PCP bug bit hard and off went my springer to a good home.
    Next step is one with a regulated valve :)
     
  4. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    I started with a Break Barrel Diana 34p .22 I enjoyed that for a few months and then was introduced to the PCP world. Oh dear lord....First, it was a .25 Benji Marauder Gen2, then came a .25 FX Gladiator MKII...and as I sit here typing, The RAW .22 HM1000x is on its way. lol, It's a horrible habit. haha

    When you go to pick up someone with luggage after a day of starling and collar doves...and your truck has feathers and two SCUBa tanks...its an interesting convo starter.
     
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  5. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    My sweet sweet FX

    IMG_5298.JPG

    Ol' Faithful Marauder

    IMG_3510.JPG
     
  6. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    There have been a few threads on airguns on this site. The last couple of years I've done some hunting with my Hatsan 95 (gas piston). Its accounted for so many cottontail and hares it earned the name "Thumper".

    Here are a few hunts with it.
    7 Bunnies for Thumper 130.JPG 12-06-15 Thumpers Cottontails 014.JPG Hatsan 95s First Cottontail Hunt 020.JPG Thumpers Cottontails 11-14-15 004.JPG Thumpers Snowshoe Hare 11-22-15 034.JPG Thumpers Half Dozen 032.JPG
     
  7. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Hatsan don't mess around. Great quality at a hell of a good price. I was sent a BT65 Carnivore .30....That damn thing hit like a freight train. I do love me some break barrel action though to. Takes effort to learn to shoot them well with that backwards and sometimes extreme recoil.
     
  8. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    I haven't been into break barrel airguns too long but I did quite a bit of research before picking up the Hatsan 95. I knew I didn't want a springer due to the recoil and special holds often needed to shoot them well. They make two versions of the 95, a springer and a gas piston version. I went with the Vortex Gas Piston version which is very quiet, accurate and I can hold it just like any other gun I shoot. I was so happy with it I picked up a second one.
     
  9. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Wait, those came with a Vortex kit already installed?!?!? I spent $125 on the kit to put into my Diana 34. but them promptly "missed" placed it after a G2G at my house. So, I broke in the barrel again and have been using it ever since. It's twice as loud as my Marauder. and marauder is about 3x louder than the FX.
     
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  10. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    They sell them with the Vortex Gas Piston installed. This video shows how quiet they are. At about 8:00 into the video he shows the results of the decibel test. It comes in at 65.9dB which is right around the level of normal conversation. One thing I like about Hatsan is that their listed velocities are very close to actual velocities with hunting weight pellets. They don't advertise velocities using light alloy pellets to fool the buyer with unrealistic expectations.

     
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  11. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Both of mine are .22 caliber. Midway has them on sale right now for $160. Hard to beat that price!
     
  12. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    I've wanted another Beeman or RWS in .177, but they aren't cheap and I have too many guns ahead of them on the list. They are practical and fun though.
     
  13. PAcanis

    PAcanis Bushmaster Lifetime Supporter

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    I had an Air Arms on order for something like three months, only to find out that they were no longer making that model :mad:

    So I used the money for a Kral Puncher Breaker...
    upload_2017-11-29_6-14-34.jpeg

    12 shots each (one magazine) at 10 yds and 20 yds
    upload_2017-11-29_6-15-42.jpeg

    ...And an AirForce Talon
    upload_2017-11-29_6-17-4.jpeg

    But before I had those I had a Sam Yang Dragon Claw
    upload_2017-11-29_6-20-42.jpeg

    Scoped
    upload_2017-11-29_6-20-9.jpeg

    This will shoot five arrows at 471fps with a deviation of 1 :)
    30yds offhand
    upload_2017-11-29_6-22-28.jpeg
     
  14. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I’ve got a few in the collection. PCP’s, break barrels, and under lever spring rifles. My latest is a Steyr LP10 match PCP pistol. Air Arms, Daystate, Beeman, RWS, FWB, Benjamin, and Steyr most followed me home and have stayed here.
     
  15. saxonaxe

    saxonaxe Scout

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    Somehow over the years I've assembled a collection of Air Rifles. It's usually started by, "Ah! you're interested in air rifles arn't you? Well, I've got a ....that I don't use anymore"....:D

    I'm sure other forum members have experienced the same, I never set out to collect them, some were gifts from family members, a couple I bought long ago but others just seem to appear in the gun cupboard like wanderers looking for a home..:D

    Top rifle is an English made Brocock pcp 10 shot .22. The sound moderator is very efficient, as is the bolt action rotary magazine operation.

    Below is a break barrel .22 Theoben, heavy, extremely accurate and a fraction under the 12 foot pound muzzle energy allowed in UK before requiring a Firearms Certificate.

    [​IMG]

    Top is an English made BSA Gold Star .22 10 shot under lever.
    Below. My elderly BSA Meteor in .22, I've owned it for about 55 years and it still shoots accurately, although it's had a couple of new breech seals etc: over the decades...:D

    [​IMG]

    Two that wandered in needing a home..
    Top is a 'Rat Catcher' in .22 which uses the small pre charged air cylinders.
    Below is a Webley .22 break barrel Sting Ray.

    [​IMG]

    Top is another one from my past, a .22 Weihrauch 35 from about 1966
    Below is another that hovers around the 12 foot pounds, a .22 side lever Diana. A heavy rifle with a terrific trigger action. On an inside range, from a bench at 25 yards, this Diana with Bisley 'Superfield' pellets will put them all practically through the same hole. ( If I do my bit properly...:D )

    [​IMG]

    Most of the above rifles, not all obviously, are sufficiently powerful enough with good shot placement, to kill rabbits out to 40 yards or so. The 12 foot pound muzzle energy limit on air weapons in the UK has never bothered me in that I don't feel restricted. If I wanted to shoot further then I'd use a .22 long rifle. My interest is always shooting within the power limits of the rifle for humane kills so most of the above rifles fill that role easily.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. J.V. Morton

    J.V. Morton Tracker

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    I enjoy the heck out of mine- in fact, the powder burners are going on break until I get caught up on reloads for them. Besides, I really need to get my new Talon SS broke in and my T200 is giving me the stink eye because he hasn't been out of the safe for awhile.
     
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  17. Chazzle

    Chazzle Idiot Savant Supporter

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    I have a .22 caliber Benjamin-Sheridan with Williams peep sights on it. I bought it on clearance from a sporting goods store that was closing. I got the peep sights since it increased the accuracy over leaf sights two-fold! It occasionally gets used as a back-up / loaner for squirrel hunting, but mostly is is on varmint duty on the back porch for my vegetable garden in the summertime. This caliber really anchors squirrels and rabbits.

    Before starting firearms, my brother and I learned principles of safety and shooting with airguns!

    Good forum!

    Chazz
     
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  18. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    Nice thread you all have going here :dblthumb: :44:

    That is a pretty good price for something with a gas piston that isn't Chinese :dblthumb: I see they also have the 135 Carnivore in .30 caliber for a fair price as well - that must be an interesting thumper to shoot :eek: :D I imagine it is something of a beast to handle, but by all accounts I've seen it is quite accurate:

    I had a 392 with the Williams peep myself. It was accurate & reasonably well made (it was an early 2000s Crosman production example, so not as nice as the older guns I'm sure) but I found it to be a pain in the a$$ to pump anywhere near full power. Power was OK, but nothing special, and I actually shot some comparably-powerful springers better, so I sold it to a fellow, IIRC, out in Arizona; he liked it, but I believe he sold it a few years later, also due to it being rather strenuous to pump. If I had been able to get one of these guns with MAC1's Steroid treatment I may have felt differently about it...

    I always thought the Silver Streaks were great lookers, and I would still love to try out Sheridan's CO2 powered variant of the 'Streaks :dblthumb:

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~

    P.S. Great looking collection there saxonaxe :dblthumb:
     
  19. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    You might be able to find a deal sometime on some the airgun classifides out there; I spent many years on James Kitching's 'Yellow' airgun forum, and found some good deals on the associated classifide page: http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574 Eleven or twelve years back, I snagged a minty RWS 34C for under $200.... The American Airguns classified page links off there (http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/classifieds.php) and is pretty active too.
    There are still deals out there, but English BSAs, Webleys, and Beeman/Weihrauch R-guns certainly aren't as affordable as they once were :(

    I don't know what power level you are after, but RWS imported some affordable springers from Cometa a number of years ago. I picked up an RWS 93 in .22 caliber that my buddy now owns. Well made, moderately powerful, and quite accurate it was also available in .177 - a nice feature of these is that they can be manually de-cocked in typical RWS/Diana fashion.
    Another modest-velocity option, and I guess something of a budget R7 alternative, is Stoeger's X5. Mine was accurate, had a very good - if simple - trigger, and proved remarkably effective on red squirrels using Gamo Tomahawk pellets.

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~
     
  20. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Great collection everyone! I'm very impressed with the number of quality airguns in this group. I'm thinking a airgun bushcraft meetup in the news gland area for a squirrel hunt is in order. Haha Sounds like a hoot to me.
     
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  21. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    @Squirrelhunter youre very right. Yellow Forum is the place to go for a good deal.
     
  22. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    image.jpeg As it is, I travel once every two months down to Tempe, AZ to help a friend out harvesting Eurasian Collar Doves. He owns a all natural RAW pet food company. We shoot to order. We don't over harvest(physically impossible to do.) the doves. Then we hand prep and vacuum seal every bird.

    That's just what I shot in 3 hours from one spot. 45-109yrds .25 JSB Exacts 890fps FX Gladiator MkII
     
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  23. Oni

    Oni Guide

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    I have an old Benjamin 342 that received the “steroid” modification by Timmy Mac as well as his Gen 2 brake. An Airforce Condor .22. A Benji Marauder in .25 and a Remington NPSS .22 nitro piston.

    Love Airgun’s!
     
  24. Swampyankee101

    Swampyankee101 Guide

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    I have a Crossman Nitro Venom in .22, also a .177 german Whisco . A Crossman .177 pump up pistol. Last week on meateater show, he was grizzly hunting and had a Crossman pistol in his pack with a stock on it. He took a few ptarmigan for the camp with it. Pretty cool.
     
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  25. slysir

    slysir Supporter Supporter

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  26. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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  27. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    :dblthumb::D
     
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  28. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Guide Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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  29. CowboyJesus

    CowboyJesus Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    [​IMG]
    chinese b-3 that really needs some love. this thing can't even puncture a filled water bottle. figure i need some new seals, but might have to mess with springs on this guy (something i have not yet done) oh, and it's a .22

    [​IMG]
    and my .177. it's a winchester, and it's a beast. needs heavy pellets to actually go where you aim due to the power it punches. hoping to trade this out in the near future for something a little more convenient for carrying afield.

    the lower noise and lower cost really makes me love these things. and the compact/cheaper ammo is such an added benefit! of course, it was people like all of you on this forum that got me to want these guys anyways!!
     
  30. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    I remember those Industry Brand/Shanghai Airgun Factory B3s & QBs well :D We got a few 'TechForce' branded ones from Compasseco back in the day, and quite a few more for $20 off the Cummins Tool trucks - my buddy even braved one of the break-barrel pistol versions :eek: :D
    We had two B3-3s in .22 that were quite accurate, but never made a whole lot of power - with normal weight pellets, they were running 400-500 fps when new & fully functional, though I'm sure they can be tuned for more oomph if one is so inclined.
    Regardless, if you are looking for spare parts, there are options out there: http://www.archerairguns.com/B3-spare-parts-s/50.htm https://www.google.com/search?ei=do...i30k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.117.k7kV_4eZj1s

    I don't know about now, but I believe the early Winchester 1000X, 800X etc. were made in Turkey (by Hatsan maybe?), later ones in Brazil, and maybe now in China...dunno, they got a bit confusing for me over the yeras :rolleyes: o_O :D I do know they were always known for being harsh shooters with heavy triggers....

    If you are considering a relatively affordable alternative, there quite a few options out there as I'm sure you know. Might be worth checking with Mike Melick to see if he has anything available pre-tuned: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/ Mike isn't a spring chicken anymore, but folks seem to speak very highly of his work (and him personally). He had a big gig going for a while turning out tuned QB-78s for a very good price; he was a friend & protege to the late Gene Sunday, so that speaks volume to me by itself :dblthumb:

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~
     
  31. TheWhiteWoodsman

    TheWhiteWoodsman Scout

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    I've slowly been wrapping my head around the idea that I might want a air gun again. The last one I had I was probably 10, then I left it outside overwinter.... Thanks for the entertaining thread folks!
     
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  32. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Anytime @TheWhiteWoodsman , We all Aim to please. With you thinking about getting another Air rifle...It's addicting. haha

    @atlastrekker I made one of those knives in High School after seeing it on that Tommy Lee Jones Film, The Hunted. That movie was also filmed around my area so it makes it even cooler to me. haha It's still sitting in my window at my father's house in my old room. haha Need to put a handle and temp it.
     
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  33. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Guide Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    It would be great to see you finish up that knife @Log_Lump that would be an awesome project.
     
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  34. feellnfroggy

    feellnfroggy Guide

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    I currently have the Benajmin Trail NP2, gas piston. But Im all about expanding when the oppurtunity arises. There a more than i would have thought. But it makes sense. I can make usuable pellets out of just about anything, and being a break barrel, unlimited shooting as long as my arm works and I have ammo. With a realistic 75 yd max range, I think I got it pretty good.


    Oh and Y'all talking about value. Gamo has the Swarm for less than 200. break barrel with a 10 shot magazine and accuracy will be comparable to every other break barrel you guys have. (under 700.00) Cant beat that. I love Gamo, but Gander didnt have the Swarm in stock at the time.
     
  35. PiterM

    PiterM Scout

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    Airguns... absolutely! Here’s my newest combo. EdGun Matador R5 in .30 cal with Vortex Viper HST 6-24x50 on top. Capable of under 1” c-t-c at 100y.

    [​IMG]
     
  36. TheWhiteWoodsman

    TheWhiteWoodsman Scout

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    I just remembered.... I DO have an airgun :14:

    IMAG00914.jpg
     
  37. Log_Lump

    Log_Lump Tracker

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    Beautiful piece of kit there bud. Edgun's are amazing. Had the privilege of shooting the Lieshi at Extreme BenchRest in October.

    [​IMG][/QUOTE]
     
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  38. PiterM

    PiterM Scout

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    It's cool indeed... really like my Leshiy as well. Both long and short config:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  39. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    40 S&W & 22 Mag fan residing in New England
    I haven't been using them lately... we don't have Chickens anymore and now 22's are readily available... so My airguns sit.

    But I am partial to Benjamins and Sheridans...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Then I dipped my toe into the dark side... Buying a used Marauder 25 and a MAC1 Tuned Disco 22.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have a few springers and a bunch of cheaper rifles and pistols too. If I could shoot them at my home I would use them more... I have a "new" Neighbor who is a busy body... need to have good neighbors so I dont shoot anymore here.

    CW
     
  40. CHREBA

    CHREBA Guide

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    Ok guys and gals . After reuniting with my childhood Crossman I'm looking to possibly get a better gun . My budget I'm thinking honestly around the $200 mark . If another 50'ish will give me any great advantage it might be worth considering . So I ask you all for some hands on experiences starting at .22 caliber . My main use first is plinking with occasionally pest control - think gardening and it associated nusances .
     
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  41. Zunga

    Zunga Supporter Supporter

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    Holy cow! The Webley is way prettier than the synthetic stock version I had in .177. What kind of fps is it spitting? :dblthumb:
    Mine was slow to load but crazy accurate!
     
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  42. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    Well, if you aren't opposed to Chinese stuff, you could probably get two guns from Mike Melick at Flying Dragon Airguns for around $200; Mike was a friend & associate of the late, great airgun tuner Gene Sunday, and his tuning work on various airguns over the years has been very well regarded. Worth checking out his site & talking with him if you get the chance - you can purchase airguns with pre-done tunes from him as well: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/

    Spring piston guns ('springers') tend to be simple to use, but can be difficult to shoot accurately & do benefit greatly from break-in time & various tuning tricks. I prefer medium to lower powered guns as they are lighter, handier, and tend to be easier to cock & shoot accurately. In lower powered guns, .22 caliber pellets are arguably less effective than .177, as they don't shoot as flat or penetrate as well in my experience; they do tend to be quite accurate though, and the larger pellets are easier to handle.

    Regardless of gun or pellet design (a good domed, pointed, or hunting-specific pellet is generally recommended), I wouldn't really want to go below 600 fps with a .22 pellet to assure reasonable effectiveness on most game & pests. There might exceptions out there, but at lower airgun speeds (400-600 fps) I've found .177 to be more effective than .22. On the other hand, .22 pellets, when driven fast enough, do deliver more 'thump' and ft lbs of energy, and can give a bit more margin for error on some shots - they don't really 'kill' any better than .177 in my experience. Over on the old Yellow Airgun Forum, someone once stated that, ballistically-speaking, .22 pellets offered no real effective advantages over .177 caliber ones at subsonic velocities - in large part, I would have to agree with this. The larger pellets tend to be more expensive on average too, though both tend to more widely available at all price point & brand levels than others like .25, .20, etc.

    My good buddy & I used a pair of QB78 CO2 rifles tuned by Gene Sunday as our primary squirrel guns for a number of years. We paid, IIRC, $185 back in 2002/2003 for them, and that included the guns, tune work, and insured shipping to us from him. Not cheap, but his work was well worth it. The guns were highly accurate with great triggers, and shot normal weight pellets (11.9-14 grains) around 700 fps on a warm (80 + degree) day. At this level, pretty much any pellets we used were effective on our red squirrels, and the guns weren't very pellet-fussy either, a big plus overall. CO2 guns like these are easy to use, being barely more complicated than the average firearm; using standard 12 grain CO2 cartridges - the guns took two, but you could load one full & one empty one, which gave fewer shots, if need be - we got around 40 at-or-near full power shots on a warmer day. When tuned to this power level, the QB78s were louder than some other airguns of similar power, but there are ways to moderate them out there..
    Mike used to tune, and sell pre-tuned, QB78s, but I don't know if he still does. You can still get the guns from other sources & tune them yourself (Archer Airguns is a good source for QB78 stuff, and I believe they sell guns, tune kits, parts, etc. www.archerairguns.com). Tuned for lower power & greater shot-to-shot consistency, a CO2 gun like this would probably give considerably more shots per charge...something to think about as well.
    I believe Mike sells Xisico's QB78-competitor, the XS-60C, so that might be something to look into too.

    I always liked CO2 for an airgun power source, but it is temperature sensitive, and isn't useful in the cold. Of course, for around your stated budget, you could probably get a CO2 rifle, and a moderately-powerful springer from Mike Melick, and have options for all-year use. Again, something to consider...

    I hope this was of some help (others can provide more/better advice I'm sure), and best of luck getting back into airguns :dblthumb:

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  43. Zunga

    Zunga Supporter Supporter

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    I agree with @Squirrelhunter. My experience with 177 pellets. Theres a big difference in damage between 500 and 750 fps in my case. 500 takes multiple hits to drop a big rat. 750 you just got to hit vitals.
     
  44. saxonaxe

    saxonaxe Scout

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    I'm not sure of pellet speed, Zunga, I've never tested it. The deciding factor for air rifles in the UK is they must register at 12 or less foot pounds of muzzle energy, so if a gunsmith or indeed anyone else, replaces seals or pistons etc: as long as the gun registers 12 ft lbs or less of muzzle energy then it complies with the lawful requirement. Of course, air weapons of much greater muzzle energy can be owned and used but they then come into the same licensing requirement as rim fire rifles.

    I will not go into the politics of it but basically the law was introduced with regard to "penetrative wound capability" and the fact that in my country, air weapons are much more readily available ( and therefore owned ) by youngsters or novice users than say .22 Long Rifle calibre weapons.

    The Webley Sting Ray you mention is superbly accurate if a little heavy with it's stained European Beech stock.
     
  45. CHREBA

    CHREBA Guide

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    I must have taken the info I read incorrectly . I thought I read that .22 had a clear and distinct advantage . From my deck to garden is between maybe 20 yards at the closest to less than 30 at the furthest ? Now if I'm understanding correctly this is not necessarily the case ? It's been 30+ years since I actively shot squirrel with old faithful . My memory is not completely gone I don't believe . But that's another story lol . I don't remember having a whole bunch of trouble if I did my part/placement with small pest either .
     
  46. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    That, and using a good pellet for the task at hand, is the most important part of things :D :dblthumb:

    If one believes conventional wisdom, then the larger diamter/front area of something like a .22 caliber pellet should transmit more 'shock' to the target effectively than the smaller .177. Of course, larger diameter projectiles like that tend to need more velocity to assure adequate penetration as well...
    .22 pellets are plenty effective, and I would never suggest against the caliber, but I cannot say I've seen the caliber outperform the .177 at lower velocities. I've seen a few remarkably effective shots with good domed pellets, and what amounts to a complete failure with an RWS wadcutter pellet on a head-shot-squirrel. With .177, I've simply seen more consistent results at lower fps; my Stoeger X5, which would not have exceeded 600 fps (and was more likely in the 550 range), was remarkably effective at killing or anchoring red squirrels with Gamo Tomahawk hunting pellets - my Crosman 1077 was plenty capable with good pellets & proper shot placement, and our Crosman 357 CO2 revolvers got the job done surprisingly well shooting the relatively-ineffective Crosman Premier HP pellets in the 400-450 fps bracket.

    Now, when you take velocity up to the level of our QB78s (700-720 fps on a good day), .22 was markedly more effective, with every pellet we tried being capable of killing squirrels decisively. I once witnessed my buddy put an 11.9 grain RWS Hobby wadcutter through one side of a red squirrel's head & out the other one day :eek: :D :dblthumb: While these guns were very capable, and usually would kill or anchor a squirrel with one shot, I can't say I noticed more 'shock' being distributed by the bigger pellets, but then I'm not sure I'm smart enough to tell anyways :rolleyes: :D
    A good domed or pointed pellet can help with effectiveness at lower speeds especially, and there are various alloy-based pellets out there than can boost velocity, but they have a mixed reputation regarding accuracy.
    Depending on what you were shooting & how far, I'd consider - for me at least - 600-650 fps with a capable pellet to be a realistic minimum for .22 effectiveness. Not saying you can't get by with less depending on various factors, but that would be up to you to experiment with - I'm merely going by what I've seen thus far :dblthumb:
    So, while I can't say I've found .22 pellets to be dramatically more effective than .177 for any particular purpose I can think of, the larger caliber definitely improves when given higher working velocities :dblthumb:

    If someone was going to give me a gun & a boatload of pellets, I'd likely choose the .22 over .177, but then I'd be just as likely to try a .20 or .25, even a .30 in that event :rolleyes: :D :dblthumb:

    As an aside, I noticed one particular area where even the 700 fps + of our tuned QB78s and RWS SuperPoint pellets struggled; shooting at pest grackels that required steeper, upward angles. Often, the pellets would connect solidly, knocking the birds earthward, but not penetrating far enough through wings, feathers, etc. to kill them - I had to chase more than one for a followup shot or two. I have to wonder if a .177 with comparable pellets at similar (or slightly faster) speeds would have been able to punch all the way through more consistently...
    Conversely, my buddy faced the same pests but was shooting down at them most of the time, or on the level at least, and I don't believe he had any such issues, noting great effectiveness on the birds with the same gun & similar pellets. He also shot them & squirrels at the bird feeders with Aguila Super Colibris out of his Henry rimfire & as I recall had no problems either.
    I shot, IIRC, two grackles with CCI CB Longs out of my own Henry, and both were dropped solidly - I gave one a followup shot but it was not likely needed. I killed another with a CCI Subsonic HP out of a Marlin/Glenfield 25 & it not only died immediately but remained stuck in place up a tall tree :D :dblthumb:

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  47. PAcanis

    PAcanis Bushmaster Lifetime Supporter

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    When I chose caliber I went with the .22. I considered it more versatile and better capable of larger pests over the .177. Pellets are pretty darn light to begin with. Lighter than their powder counterparts. A .22 will carry further with more energy and be less affected by wind. Negating some of the perfect shot placement needed. Same as powder guns. 3/4" off on a red squirrel's head could miss or just barely clip it. Especially for as much as the ones around here never stand still unless they are squatting eating.
    Just another way to look at things. I also wasn't trying to get the best performance out of relatively lower velocity. I can see where the .177 would be the better choice in that respect.
    So I guess the question is, how large of a pest do you think will be invading your garden?
     
  48. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I have roughly 30 different air guns ,most of which lately are CO2 fire arm replicas .
    Initially i was a sucker for the slide action but they are less accurate and less powerful .never the less fun to shoot and train new shooters with .
    What I've learned through the years is that guns are like girls ,even sisters they may look good and look alike, but not the same .
    If you shopping for guns check out the customer reviews at "Pyramid Air" and other places on line that sell them. At least with the reviews, your odds are improved not getting a lemon.
    High power "is not" equal to accuracy .
     
    Not Sure, Log_Lump, jstert and 4 others like this.
  49. PAcanis

    PAcanis Bushmaster Lifetime Supporter

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    Speaking of airguns, did you folks see that PA has a PCP compressor available for 500 bucks now?! I got an email earlier today. Amazing. And it's a standalone. Not a shoebox.
     
  50. Squirrelhunter

    Squirrelhunter Scout

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    Interesting points - I believe an old airgun adage, possibly of British origin, was something like '.177 for feathers, .22 for fur.' :D

    I've not looked at any ballistic charts on the topic recently, but I have to wonder how, with a comparable pellet, .177 and .22 would compare out at 15, 20, 25, 30 yards maybe more; comparing say, 800-900 fps in .177 to 700-800 in .22, or 700-800 .177 & 600-700 .22....a high BC pellet, like JSB Exact or Crosman Premier could help even the odds, but you could use any I suppose. I know the .22 will start out with more energy, but how will it compare 'downrange' in terms of velocity, energy retention, penetration, expansion if any with certain hunting pellets, etc. I'm sure these stats are out there somewhere, but I have a hunch the .177 might hold the edge in all categories below supersonic speeds.....I could be wrong too :D :dblthumb: I will note, having shot a number of hollow point pellet designs, that those in .177, if well-designed, expand better at the speeds I've tested than those in .22 caliber...again, well below the speed of sound.

    Things would seem to shift dramatically when we get up to 1,000 fps and beyond, where the PCP crowd seems to get increasingly better performance (and retain it with heavier pellets at longer ranges) with pellets larger - sometimes far larger - than .177.
    Such changes would seem to effect pellet performance as well. I've not seen great performance - they were handily bested by Gamo Tomahawks in my limited shooting - out of Predator Polymag hunting pellets in .177 at the velocities I've shot them at, and to me they don't look like a good longer range choice. However, those shooting them in larger calibers propelled at much higher speeds from PCP guns, hold a different view, citing often good accuracy much further out than I shoot with pellets, and generally tout their lethal qualities 'on game.'

    I can certainly see the rationale behind going with a larger caliber (coupled with an appropriate pellet at adequate velocity) for larger game and pests like woodchucks, coons, etc. Even with squirrels, it is hard to be overgunned in reality, as we all know. Conversely, I've been surprised at how little can be required to kill them on numerous occasions....

    Your point @PAcanis about not having much time to take a shot at red squirrels I can certainly relate to; it is the reason why I prefer options that don't require surgical shot placement (i.e. you can just aim center mass & call it good) to be effective - .22 LR hollow points & shotguns have proven the most effective tools I've tried so far :4: :dblthumb:
    In this aspect, .22 pellets may certainly give one an advantage, at least with some pellets under certain conditions, but based on the very impressive - and surprising - results I witnessed with the Stoeger X5/Gamo Tomahawk combo, I can't say that it is an exclusive benefit to the larger pellet...

    As usual, some good thoughts, opinions, and discussions here - hopefully everyone is getting something from it :dblthumb: :44:

    Kind Regards,

    ~ SH ~
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018

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