Any Ashkenazi Jewish Bushcraft folks here?

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by Togus, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    I will apologize in advance as I know this isn’t directly bushcraft related, but I recently learned through a commonly advertised genetic test that I’m 25.4% Ashkenazi Jewish. The rest is Northern and Western European, which has always been known to me. I do know Ashkenazi Jewish people live/lived in Central and Western European nations for hundreds of years as well as some of the former Soviet countries. I’ll also accept the fact these tests are what they are, but can any of you woods bums educate me on this heritage? Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  2. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I’d talk with your physician next time your in for a physical. Colorectal cancer is (if my memory is not failing) a more common than in the normal population for you folks.
     
  3. Portage_Monster

    Portage_Monster Experiencing Wanderlust Supporter

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    My dad did some genetics testing and he's about 1% Ashkenazi making me 1/2% but it did come through on the testing. His mom came back almost 100% Finn/Swede so that means that my dad's dad was 3-4% Ashkenazi. We're not sure where that came into play, but suffice it to say it was many generations back. Maybe we're very very distant relatives. HA!
     
  4. Tanner68

    Tanner68 Scout

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    Start serving brisket during the holidays.
     
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  5. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Mmmm...beef brisket. Yummy!
     
  6. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    I’ve had two bouts of diverticulitis but my doc won’t refer me for colonoscopy until I’m 50. I’ll mention it though.
     
  7. PVF1

    PVF1 Supporter Supporter

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    Don't forget the latkes with your brisket! Lol just imagine you're living in 17th century eastern Europe and trying to stay warm. The solution? Meat and potatoes :dblthumb:
     
  8. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I’d imagine that’s an insurance issue on his end but with this new information, and a history of bowel issues, if he doesn’t refer you I’d consider a new physician. How did he diagnose your diverticulitis in the first place? It’s not the most common problem in young people.
     
  9. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    I’m just amazed at how fast we went from

    “hey, I’m part Jewish “

    to

    “get your butt examined”. :)
     
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  10. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    I dated a Jewish girl for 4 years... it’s not that surprising to me :18:
     
  11. Red Yeti

    Red Yeti Mostly Harmless Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Dude, you can edit the title using the thread tools tab at the top.

    Good luck in your search!

    :38:
     
  12. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    :18::18::18:
     
  13. HP500

    HP500 Guide

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    I always wondered about how accurate these tests are and if they are a scam. I've thought about sending in a sample of dog or cat DNA instead of a human sample to see what they come back with.
     
  14. Primordial

    Primordial MOA #40

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  15. Ragman

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    Not a scam but not as accurate as people think. There are folks how have sent a sample to 3 different sites and got back different results.
    It all depends on what there're using as their sample group.
     
  16. Portage_Monster

    Portage_Monster Experiencing Wanderlust Supporter

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    I guess I take it with a grain of skepticism, but we've had all three of my living grandparents tested plus my Dad. For my grandmother's everything made sense - very Scandinavian. My grandpa, who's family came from the Germany, Austria, Poland area came back with a healthy chunk of British and Greek, but who knows? People travel...
     
  17. Ragman

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  18. LazyPK

    LazyPK Guide

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    I'm not Jewish, but my wife is a Sephardic Jew (sect of Jews from Spain).

    After that synagogue was shot up I've been worried about hate crimes more and more. Living in the South there are a lot of racists and I have seen plenty of swastikas. Our future children will be Jews and I would hate for them to see how the world treats Jewish people.


    It's amazing how differently people treat you when they find out your ethnicity. Stay safe out there
     
  19. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Lower left quadrant pain is a hallmark sign and got better with antibiotics. I’m getting a new doc, not for that reason, but many others.
     
  20. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Indeed. My cup overfloweth.
     
  21. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    They use a remarkable amount of saliva.
     
  22. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Been a member for years now and I did not know that. Thanks for the tip.
     
  23. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    I’m well armed. Come heavy or don’t come at all I say. At the end of the day we’re all just people with the same common interests, goals, hopes, and dreams.
     
  24. Paul Caruso

    Paul Caruso Being all that I am. Supporter

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    I saw a report where twins went and got the tests from 3 or 4 different companies and got very different results.


     
  25. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    This whole Jewish thing was very amusing for me because it was my mother who got me this kit as a Christmas gift. And, she’s very Baptist. Ha! I just had back surgery yesterday and joked with her that the Star of David was my guiding light through my surgery. I don’t think she appreciated it as much as I did.
     
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  26. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

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    Yeah, much of their comparison depends on the size and makeup of their sample group. I did one about 2 years ago and learned that I'm the whitest person to ever emerge from northern Europe/British Isles except for 1% Sardinian. They came back to me a year later with an update based on an increased sample saying that I'm now exotically 0.02% Senegambian from somewhere prior to the mid 1700s.

    For the most part the dominants in recent history are reliable. The further back you go, the more unreliable the probability.
     
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  27. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

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    Some evangelicals believe that the old covenant with the Jews is still in effect and that Jews don’t need Jesus . Just tell her that since you are Jewish you are in with God under the old rules and don’t have to bother with Christianity now:)
     
  28. HP500

    HP500 Guide

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    We had a sort of DNA test in my family many years ago. Both of my parents are from Germany and grew up during WWII. At the time, the nazi's made people prove that they didn't have any Jewish blood going back 5 generations. When my family settled in the USA after the war, my aunt still had all of the documentation, which she gave to me. They have the nazi swastika "Stamp of Approval" on them. It is pretty interesting.
     
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  29. Andy 315

    Andy 315 Supporter Supporter

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    Lots of different dna kits out there. Each offers some perspective on where your ancestors came from. My grandmother swore that we were Italian. All you heard growing up. Nope. Spanish. Ha
     
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  30. PVF1

    PVF1 Supporter Supporter

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    Okay, okay, I'll respond seriously to the OP's question (I have a lot of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage on both sides of my family). First, let me say congratulations and welcome to the family lol. That is not to be exclusivist in any way, just pointing out that the Hebrew calendar is currently on year 5,779 -- so you've suddenly found yourself part of a fascinating and rather ancient human culture!

    Some aspects of the Ashkenazi population are a bit of mystery, historically, and I'm not sure that researchers agree on how exactly this population made its way into Europe. From what I understand, most researchers seem to have concluded that a substantial number of Jewish people fled religious persecution in the Near East during Medieval times, and ended up settling in predominately western Europe. That population encountered continued religious persecution there (12th century European villages were probably not the most welcoming place for outsiders), so they fled back east across the continent, settling in places like Poland and Russia. Those communities were either rural and dirt poor (often called "shtetels"), or they lived in sections of cities that -- at least in places like 17th century Italy (Venice) -- were called "ghettos." That's actually where the word "ghetto" comes from. It was an area of a city in Renaissance-era Italy where religious or ethnic minorities were forced to live. I'm sure some of them clustered there to be around familiar sights and sounds, but, for the most part, this was not a voluntary phenomenon. Fast forward and we get to World War II, where the tragic fate of the Ashkenazi (European) Jewish population is well known to history. That fate requires little elaboration here. Suffice it to say that in some parts of Europe, such as Poland, the Nazis exterminated up to 90 - 95% of the Jewish population. In that country alone, almost 3 million Ashkenazi Jews were murdered between 1939 and 1945, shipped off to death camps like Auschwitz-Birkenau and Treblinka.

    The remainder of twentieth century Ashkenazi Jewish history is one of rising from the ashes. Following the utter devastation of the Holocaust, you have the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, and the flourishing of Jewish communities in America. Basically, the people who were able to escape Nazi-occupied Europe tended to be educated and have the work skills to make it in a new country. I have recently interviewed one Holocaust survivor who told me how her parents -- an automobile engineer and nurse in Austria, before the war -- taught themselves to sew and then took jobs working 16 hour days in the US, sewing baseball mitts and sports uniforms, to support their children. Those children grew up and became American scientists, authors, teachers, writers, doctors, and all the rest. Ashkenazi Jews who lived through or were born in that era who you've probably heard of include Albert Einstein, Jonas Salk, Sigmund Freud, Niels Bohr, Louis Brandeis, Irving Berlin, Leonard Bernstein, George Gershwin, Groucho Marx, Milton Friedman, Carl Sagan, Elie Wiesel, Woody Allen, Steven Spielberg, Paul Simon, Art Garfunkel, etc. etc.

    The high prevalence of people with Ashkenazi Jewish heritage is especially notable in scientific fields. Askhenazi Jews make up only about 0.2% of the world population, but account for nearly 25% of all Nobel Prize winners in science! I read a really interesting study out of the University of Utah a few years back which looked at the rates of genetic inflow in Ashkenazi Jewish populations in pre-WWII Europe, and concluded that a genetic fluke in those populations, related to a relative lack of biodiversity (as I mentioned earlier, these populations were forced to live in isolated ghettos or shtetls), combined with various socioeconomic pressures, might have acted as a sort of "artificial selection" process that lead to a small but statistically significant increase in some aspects of cognitive functioning. I think the study found that those populations ended up with comparatively higher verbal and mathematical functioning, but comparatively lower visual-spatial functioning. Another trade off is that, as a result of the same genetic dynamic, those populations also possess heightened susceptibility to certain genetic diseases like Tay-Sachs and Gaucher -- enough so that many Ashkenazi Jewish people will undergo genetic testing before they have children with other Ashkenazi Jews, to make sure that both parents aren't recessive carriers.

    That sort of genetic "trade off" is something that also exists in other populations. For example, there are some African populations that have evolved a heightened resistance to malaria. But the genetic basis of that resistance also creates a heightened susceptibility to sickle cell anemia.

    Of course, any time you start talking about population genetics in humans, you risk straying into dangerous territory. People have used these sort of concepts to push some very sick and evil ideologies -- Nazi ideology being a prime example. So please understand that I am just talking about this subject as a way of discussing some of the historical forces that have shaped the Ashkenazi Jewish experience in Europe and America.

    As for more bushcraft-y type stuff, the Jewish experience in that arena is really interesting to me. I'm fourth generation American (my family came to the US from Russia before WWII), and my family going back is boringly "white collar" -- school teachers, professors, research scientists, journalists, physicians, small business owners, pharmacists . . . but my ancestors in Europe would have been very "blue collar," living and working in poor rural communities as the village blacksmith, butchers, cobblers, carpenters, fishermen, trappers, hunters, and so on. They were a resilient and resourceful people who had to make do with almost nothing. Sometimes when I go out in the woods I catch myself thinking that I'm probably not gonna be very good at this stuff, because I personally come from a long line of desk jockeys. Then I remind myself of my ancestors in Europe and their many centuries of persevering against all odds. It is a source of strength to me, and something that I draw upon from time to time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  31. DuctTape

    DuctTape Scout

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    I am 50% on my father's side. Have you delved deeply into your genealogical past to determine where this part of your genetic heritage hails? If you are interested, I am happy to help you gwt started into your genealogical quest. Be forewarned, it can be as addicting as bushcraft, or cast-iron.
     
  32. tristndad

    tristndad Supporter Supporter

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    The BRCA gene (Breast Cancer) is extremely high in the Ashkenazi population. My wife is 100% Ashkenazi and a survivor of breast cancer.

    A few years back Angelina Jolie (an Ashkenazi) was diagnosed with having the same gene and went on a public awareness campaign.
     
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  33. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Wow, Thank you. Very interesting. I especially appreciated the last couple of sentences. Nice.
     
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  34. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    But then he can't have Bacon or cheeseburgers!
     
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  35. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Jews are God’s chosen people. He is just a bit ticked off with them though.

    I think Otzi was a jew. :33: Maybe not... but he did have goat skin in his possession.

    Now I need to look up that long word I have never seen before. Love to learn stuff.
     
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  36. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    I am Jewish. My wife has a masters in Jewish Studies and is a font of information, so if you come up with any specific questions shoot ‘em over. I’ll ask the resident expert.
     
  37. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Could have been Italian by way of Spain... people moved around quite a bit. Also I hate to be a buzz kill but these do not tell you where your family hails from... no no no my friends. These tests tell you what you are genetically. There is a huge difference since you only inherit half your DNA from your mother and half from your father. See Below

    Grandma1 Grandpa2 Grandma3 Grandpa4
    X1X2 X3Y4 X5X6 X7Y8

    Mom Dad
    X2X3 X5Y8

    You
    X2Y8

    Now lets say they all met in the Good Ol melting pot of the USA.
    Grandma1 was Jewish 100% (which BTW in Jewish culture means you are a Jew as they are a matriarchal society)
    Grandpa2 was half western european and half african american from his mothers side
    Grandma3 was half Italian 100%
    Grandpa4 was what most people would consider 3/4 Italian and 1/4 spanish but the spanish is on his fathers side (this is important)

    That means Mom is 1/2 Jew, 1/4 W. Euro, 1/4 Af. American... Genetically she is Half Jewish and half Af. American and may not test out as having nearly any W. Euro genes because she got her fathers mothers X gene.

    Dad is over 1/2 Italian, like an 1/8th spanish.... but genetically he ended up 1/2 Italian and half spanish picking up that spanish Y chrome from his father.

    You, well you're a mutt! You're Italian, Jew, Af. American and Spanish! But genetically you test out as 1/2 Jewish from Grandma's X2 Chrome, and 1/2 Spanish as you got your debonair good looks from that spanish Y chromosome thanks to your father. OH noes though! Where did the Italian genetics and Af. American genetics go?!!! Well by the power of genetics you didn't get any. Obviously I'm over simplifying a bit but just showing in part why these tests are not accurate as far as family history goes
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  38. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    This is false. At least for me!
     
  39. PVF1

    PVF1 Supporter Supporter

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    I just call it kosher bacon :4:
     
  40. Kurt992

    Kurt992 Guide Lifetime Supporter Bushclass II

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    Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.
     
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  41. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    :18: bad jew, bad! Put the pork down! That old testament god was not the all forgiving. More like the these are the rules of my house dont break them or else kinda god :18:
     
  42. Poku

    Poku Supporter Supporter

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    I’m Jewish through matrilineal descent. I found out a about a year ago and I think it’s great. I’ve been enjoying learning more about my family’s history.
    My grandma fled Russia sometime before WWII for China where she eventually met my Grandfather who was in the US Army during or shortly after the war. When she arrived in the states she tried to hide the fact she was Russian and Jewish. She was worried she wouldn’t be accepted and it would create problems for her family.
     
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  43. LongChinJon

    LongChinJon Guide

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    I don't know if it will be true in your case, but I showed to have very small percentages (1ish%) of Jewish, Middle Eastern, and Bantu African. The company literature explained that with those small percentages, they could not be certain that I was descended from those ethnicities and that the DNA might simply resemble DNA from them.
    THEN, the company refined their testing and all my small percentages went away--no longer am I Jewish or African, which makes me a little bit boring. So if you are interested, you might look into it a little more to find out if that 1% is reliable.
     
  44. backlasher

    backlasher nothing to do and all day to do it in Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Our history became very important for several family members a few years ago. My great-grandfather was adopted so any ancestral research stopped there. My brother had one of these tests done and it said we were Irish. That was nice but it's more important to say I'm from Texas!
     
  45. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Consider me more contemporary. God would not have made bacon not to eat, and cheeseburgers are made more divine with bacon. If I’m a better man in other aspects of my life they’ll offset one another. Right?
     
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  46. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    The reality is that kosher laws were designed as a series of health codes. If you feel comfortable with what and how you eat, why not have at it?

    On another note, while I do enjoy an occasional shrimp, I try to stay away from filtering organs and bottom dwellers, the cockroaches of the seas and waterways :29:o_O:46:
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  47. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    I agree with both of you, however real Hardoes will tell you they are gods rules and not for us to question. God said our meat should chew cud and be split hoof if not both then it is unclean and not for us to eat... yes I’m paraphrasing, no I’m not Jewish but my exes family was fairly conservative so they expected I hold the same rules. They didn’t like my response of god is an evil little **** making pig taste so good then telling us we can’t eat it... Hrm now that I think of it maybe that is why the father didn’t like me lol
     
  48. LazyPK

    LazyPK Guide

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    It took my a minute to figure out why they were using so much salvia.... LMAO
     
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  49. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    I like breaking bread, leavened or otherwise, with my neighbors.
     
  50. LazyPK

    LazyPK Guide

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    Does an infinitely powerful, all knowing being really care what we eat? I don't think so lol
     
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