Are people scared of bushcrafters/woodsmen?

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by Bitterroot Native, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Akela

    Akela Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    An interesting opinion... but do the same modern backpacking and climbing practitioners, along with the LNT advocates, stop to consider the multitude of impacts caused by all the mining that is necessary to collect the raw minerals that must then be transported by newly laid asphalt and concrete roads across land to the port facilities, then by ships at sea to other port facilities, so the "ores" can be transported further onward to the smelters for processing into the desired metals such as the glorious titanium, stainless steel, and aluminum, followed by transport to the manufacturing plants to transform the basic metal forms into all the various cups, stoves, non-plastic sporks, etc, then the transportation of the finished and packaged product forms to the storage and distribution warehouses, then onward to all the store-fronts (brick-and-mortar and electronic), and finally onward into the awaiting hands of the end users, who then transport the product into the woods/brush for actual use?

    Don't forget about all various forms and amounts of energy production and consumption required all along the way... petroleum drilling and refining to supply the various fuels for running all the different types of mining and transport equipment and machinery, powering the engines of the ocean-crossing cargo ships, the required natural gas and electricity at the smelting facilities, the electricity production and consumption for running the cutting, stamping, machining, and finishing of the product at the manufacturing facilities, etc, etc.

    What about the loss of all the land area that was and is covered over by concrete and asphalt in order to construct the various production facilities themselves, and the raw materials that had to be previously mined, transported, smelted, and manufactured to produce the I-beams and girders to construct the buildings where the production activities occur?

    In my view, when all impacts are actually considered, it is the practitioners of the "primitive" skillsets who leave an extremely minute trace, in comparison. YMMV.

    I apologize for pursuing this tangential diversion, everyone... and I'm happily tracking back to our OP's topic.
     
  2. Red Wing

    Red Wing Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Location:
    Dublin, oh
    I dont know but some definitely are of long haired tattooed hippy types... I know a guy..:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  3. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Location:
    Alabama
    I remember Forbes or some other reasonably mainstream source going into detail within the last couple of years about how fuel load is a major forest fire problem, and that California keeps on paying the price for bad policy.

    I am WAY out of my depth on the science so I make no claim that it's true, but it was interesting.

    It does seem intuitive that lots of small campfires eating into the fuel load would have smaller impact than all-out forest fires.

    I get strange vibes from the hypermilitant LNT crowd. I think it is one of those reasonable ideas that can be distilled into "don't be a jerk", but is often distilled into something else instead.

    Edit: and has been said, I think it can occassionally be distilled to "leave your traces out of immediate sight so I don't have to think about them too hard".
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  4. Stophel

    Stophel Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2015
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    3,098
    I usually don't see anyone else out in the woods anyway. Mostly, the only time I have to go out into the woods is in the dead of summer. HOT. HUMID. Oppressive. Incredibly uncomfortable. Nobody else is fool enough to be roaming around in the woods then.... just me.
     
  5. Barry J

    Barry J Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,867
    Likes Received:
    5,512
    Location:
    North Texas
    Akela said: [/QUOTE]An interesting opinion... but do the same modern backpacking and climbing practitioners, along with the LNT advocates, stop to consider the multitude of impacts caused by all the mining that is necessary to collect the raw minerals that must then be transported by newly laid asphalt and concrete roads across land to the port facilities, then by ships at sea to other port facilities, so the "ores" can be transported further onward to the smelters for processing into the desired metals such as the glorious titanium, stainless steel, and aluminum, followed by transport to the manufacturing plants to transform the basic metal forms into all the various cups, stoves, non-plastic sporks, etc, then the transportation of the finished and packaged product forms to the storage and distribution warehouses, then onward to all the store-fronts (brick-and-mortar and electronic), and finally onward into the awaiting hands of the end users, who then transport the product into the woods/brush for actual use?

    Don't forget about all various forms and amounts of energy production and consumption required all along the way... petroleum drilling and refining to supply the various fuels for running all the different types of mining and transport equipment and machinery, powering the engines of the ocean-crossing cargo ships, the required natural gas and electricity at the smelting facilities, the electricity production and consumption for running the cutting, stamping, machining, and finishing of the product at the manufacturing facilities, etc, etc.

    What about the loss of all the land area that was and is covered over by concrete and asphalt in order to construct the various production facilities themselves, and the raw materials that had to be previously mined, transported, smelted, and manufactured to produce the I-beams and girders to construct the buildings where the production activities occur?

    In my view, when all impacts are actually considered, it is the practitioners of the "primitive" skillsets who leave an extremely minute trace, in comparison. YMMV.

    I apologize for pursuing this tangential diversion, everyone... and I'm happily tracking back to our OP's topic.[/QUOTE]



    Exactly^^^^^^!
    I agree with you @Akela
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  6. Lee C.

    Lee C. Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    3,135
    I'm definitely working on that. I agree with you. A hat is a good and useful thing. Says alot about a man.
     
    buckfynn, Barry J, AdamD1776 and 2 others like this.
  7. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    7,883
    Likes Received:
    20,434
    Location:
    Gouldsboro, PA

    And the answer to your question is, obviously, "No". But to be honest, most of us don't think that deeply about how large of a shadow we cast on the earth.

    The main source of conflict here being all groups lacking perspective on the viewpoints of their brethren. We are, largely, confronting the same issues from different angles. We're just not taking the time to view it as such. We are coached by the media to stress our differences and not to embrace our similarities. Conflict is easier to sell than harmony.

    We all need to step off occasionally and be a little less tribal.
     
  8. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,947
    Likes Received:
    34,919
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    @Sandcut , very well put and entirely true. As THINKING humans, it behooves us to consider the other person's viewpoint. Not to agree with it, but just to honestly consider it. Our culture has become one of ideologues, and ideologies of any stripe are basically an excuse not to have to think on your own.
     
    Ragman, buckfynn, HeadyBrew and 5 others like this.
  9. Sierramtns42

    Sierramtns42 Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    202
    Location:
    High Sierra Nevada, CA
     
    M.Hatfield likes this.
  10. leghog

    leghog Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    8,343
    Location:
    3.99 ft east of 4 ft west of here
    M.Hatfield likes this.
  11. wallflash

    wallflash Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    2,413
    Likes Received:
    10,725
    Location:
    Earth
    Just an issue with him getting the quotes placed wrong, no doubt . It gets tricky when you try to split a quote up and reply to parts of it separately.
     
  12. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    573
    Location:
    New England
    I see no meaningful difference in the environmental impact of bushcrafting and modern hiking in terms of life outside of the woods up to the trailhead. We all live in modern houses and participate in modern industrial capitalism that destroy Gods good Creation, just as you've described. Our food, housing, jobs, and cars all demand it.

    I also see no significant difference in the environmental impact of what bushcrafters and backpackers use. Several studies I've seen (not going to look for them right now) have shown that overall environmental impact of synthetics clothing/fabrics is the same as so-called "natural" fiber products, as modern processing of the latter is fully mechanized, relies on heavy agriculture and chemical treatments to process.

    Perhaps we should take a closer look at how the Amish go backpacking or bushcrafting? I'm actually serious about that.
     
  13. Beach Hiker

    Beach Hiker LB 42 Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    24
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    6,678
    Likes Received:
    50,875
    Location:
    On the farm and at the beach.
    My sentiments exactly.
     
  14. jswi2374

    jswi2374 Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    15,360
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    I really doubt there are any Amish members on this forum, or the internet in general. It would be interesting to see, though.
     
  15. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,582
    Likes Received:
    13,202
    Location:
    Casstown, Ohio
    I don't know. I've met quite a few that will follow their rules to the letter but the spirit of the rules be damned. Also, the kids are under much less stringent restrictions until they make their choice to officially join the church.

    One fellow I worked for bought a large stock tank and put it in the back yard. They would swim and play in it since they weren't allowed a swimming pool. If anyone asked it was a stock tank for watering the livestock. :18:

     
    Beach Hiker, Akela, Kennebago and 6 others like this.
  16. Red Wing

    Red Wing Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,317
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Location:
    Dublin, oh
    That hes bald :59::42::4:
     
  17. bacpacjac

    bacpacjac Queen of the Cups Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    7,079
    Likes Received:
    47,463
    Location:
    Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
    LOL!! That's funny, right there! Thanks for the much needed giggle this morning!
     
  18. Big ian

    Big ian Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    2,513
    Location:
    BC Coast Mountains
    Y'know, the Amish have been known to wear wide-brimmed hats.....

    [​IMG]
     
    Beach Hiker, buckfynn, Akela and 3 others like this.
  19. bacpacjac

    bacpacjac Queen of the Cups Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    7,079
    Likes Received:
    47,463
    Location:
    Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
    Yup. We have a large and growing homeless population in my city and "tent cities" are popping up all over the place, including beside our local park an bike trail. It's a justifiably serious concern here. Every one I've come across is disgusting. When I set up my hammock or tarp, I often get worrisome looks, so usually make a point of smiling, waving and saying "Hello! "It's a great day for lunch or a nap on the trail, isn't it?! Have a great walk!" It hasn't failed me yet, except for one leashed dog. I was cooking a steak at the time though. haha!! That said, most of my gear is brightly coloured, I don't usually have campfires or use a "big knife, and I try to follow all the trail use rules, including cleaning up after myself and any slobs who have been there before me. If there's garbage at a spot when I arrive, I either clean it up right away or go find somewhere else so nobody thinks I'm the slob. ;)
     
  20. Sierramtns42

    Sierramtns42 Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2019
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    202
    Location:
    High Sierra Nevada, CA
    Well Leghog I admit I am confused about just who said what. My previous comments were to state that in at least one case I know about public land (Stanislaus National Forrest) had indeed been locked. I thought it was you who had made the statement I was responding to. Sorry if I was wrong. Anyway my point was that it was the locked road was not due to guns, it was due to inconsiderate people leaving potentially dangerous trash behind.
     
  21. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Indigenous Skills Junkie

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    10,683
    Location:
    Interior Alaska/Southern Oregon
    My hair is down to my lower back, maybe that's why I get so many weird looks :p.

    Me and my dad were talking about this yesterday, peoples reactions and what not. He said he's noticed it all his life, people being weirded out when they happen upon him in the wilds. He somewhat tongue in cheek said that people are just probably scared of indians from seeing too many westerns :18:. He might be onto something though.
     
  22. BCWoodsman

    BCWoodsman Wet Woodsman

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    4,137
    Location:
    BC West Coast
    It's getting like that here too. The homeless population in my community is at crisis level, and they are set up in pretty much every wooded area within 10 square miles of the downtown core. I leave the area completely if I want to have any woods time.
     
  23. HeadyBrew

    HeadyBrew Fully vaccinated Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    8,826
    Location:
    Western NY
    Wow, this thread sure has legs. It’s touched on so many different things and still going strong. Clothing choices, gear choices, 2A rights, natural resources concerns, carbon footprints associated with camping, wide brim hats and their place in society, the Amish culture, issues with the homeless. And I’m sure I’ve missed a few topics. Phew!

    I like to pop in once a day just to see which way it’s turned next.

    Incredible, lol!
     
  24. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Indigenous Skills Junkie

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,051
    Likes Received:
    10,683
    Location:
    Interior Alaska/Southern Oregon
    I'm amazed too! I opened pandoras box lmao.

    Your profile pic makes me laugh EVERY time I see it man! Gary Busey is too much :18::D
     
  25. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Location:
    Alabama
    Not everybody does it the same way, apparently:

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...jZFkF1wUNpNfnVXRSVIhiqmLlA3O8QCHbqDWoa0h3Fx3o

    (this is meant as a good-natured prod, I have enjoyed the discussion so far)
     
  26. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Location:
    Alabama
    Edit: weird, doubled up.
     
    M.Hatfield likes this.
  27. Akela

    Akela Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Yep, it was interesting to see an Amish farmer and his sons haul cut and dried hay from the fields back to the barn via horse-drawn wagon, then fork part of the load into the loft by hand, while some forked the rest of the load into a baler that was coupled to a stationary gasoline engine.
    Sorta like HYOH... whatever works, right? ;)
     
  28. A17

    A17 Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    473
    Location:
    Commiefornia
    While I can't say for certain about the paramilitary part, people would move out of my path on sidewalks, in stores, etc when I was wearing camo pants and an army hat more often than when I was in jeans. I also had many people ask if I was in the army or going to enlist soon. There was one time, maybe on July 4th or at least around then, that I was walking down the sidewalk and I passed this little kid who, as soon as I'd passed, asked his parents if I was a soldier. Without looking, I could tell they were embarrassed and they sort of fumbled out a "No, I don't think so". Aside from that and when someone asked if I'd been playing paintball, I've never had anybody make comments on what I was wearing. I suppose it all depends on where you live. I go to a mostly hippie college so most people regarded a camo-wearing redneck as someone to avoid. In all the non-hippie places I've gone, nobody cares.
     
    M.Hatfield, Beach Hiker and Barry J like this.
  29. bigfoots

    bigfoots Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,068
    Likes Received:
    4,932
    Location:
    Baltimore county md
    This might have something to do with it. FB_IMG_15636522244925849.jpg
     
  30. americanstrat98

    americanstrat98 Wanderer Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    15,359
    Location:
    Heart of Dixie
    I regularly wear a Tilley hat, sheath knife, and am covered in dirt. It helps that I live in rural Alabama . No one bats an eye. I was asked by a grocer if I was a hunter , in which I replied "sure, why not".

    Most often if people figure out I'm good with fire, firearms, knife use, cooking, then they make the remark of " I know who I'm coming to see when shtf".

    I've got a bushcraft buddie that is a bit of a comic , and regularly says he is going to Boulder Colorado when shtf so he can chow down on all those grass fed hippies. Lmao.

    We are mostly nuts, and that is just how I like it. Love dirt time, and observing nature. Most of the time I never see another soal on foot. They're mostly 4x4ing or riding through the area and give a wave.
     
    Lee C., M.Hatfield, Ragman and 4 others like this.
  31. jswi2374

    jswi2374 Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    15,360
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    What are the odds of there being TWO ax murderers on this stretch of road...
     
    LongChinJon, M.Hatfield and bigfoots like this.
  32. jaydog

    jaydog Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Location:
    N.E. Ohio
    When I was doing sewer work in Florida a police cruiser pulled up and said they received a complaint because somebody came up out of a manhole (I mean maintenance hole) with a knife and someone got scared. I think the cop was laughing as hard as we were.
     
    Denman, M.Hatfield, RobOz and 2 others like this.
  33. highlander

    highlander Veni Vidi comedit lardum Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,772
    Likes Received:
    28,000
    Location:
    Scott County,Tennessee
    I try to go where there aren’t any people.

    Kids are scared of me sometimes because of my size. I’m a big guy, bald, and have a beard. I don’t mind. I usually smile, offer a fist bump or high five. I try not to make an appearance of being unfriendly or aggressive. I’ve been known to wear a Buck 110 on my belt. Most of the time if I’m carrying knife or gun, no one would ever know.
     
    Denman, Lee C., M.Hatfield and 2 others like this.
  34. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    573
    Location:
    New England
    I would like to see the full article but I'm not at all surprised by this finding as it corresponds to another paper I saw 5+ years ago that found that a) there is no correlation between the amount of education people have and their acceptance/rejection of global warming but b) there is a correlation between people rejecting global warming and their self-identification into either a conservative political or religious group.

    The vast majority of conservative Christian theology in the US is Calvinistic and conservative politics groups in the US are strongly Capitalistic. Calvinism and Capitalism have a very strong and tightly knit history and a common theme in both is the focus on the individual and a nearly complete ignoring of larger social structures. Calvinists tend to understand social problems (e.g. slavery, racism, poverty) as the result of individual choices. And free-market Capitalists explain the shape of our infrastructure (e.g. carbon based power & transportation, resource extraction industry and agriculture) as simple results of individual consumer or investor choices.

    In contrast, most people who accept global warming are not in conservative political groups and are thus most likely to be an economic liberal seeing the problem as a systemic problem requiring some level of a state action.

    Speaking as perhaps the only openly socialist person on this forum, it is my belief that our choices are largely constrained by the infrastructure and the shape of the infrastructure is largely shaped by large investors who are primarily motivated to invest in solutions that will guarantee returning revenues in the short to medium term. This explains why we have a fossil fuel based and car based economy.

    Our individual consumer choices won't change that and won't get us to a sustainable future, imo. A person can't simply opt out of a car based transportation infrastructure and expect to get along - hence my reference to the Amish who do it en masse and only in places willing to tolerate the existence of their parallel infrastructure. Massachusetts drivers would force their horse buggies into the ditches.

    Anyway... if we're talking either bushcraft or backpacking, we're already unsustainable.
     
  35. Akela

    Akela Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Pinnah,
    You seem to prefer to "paint with a very broad brush".
    Setting aside your personal perspectives contained within the first four paragraphs quoted above, how many variations of the Amish are there?
    When you use the word "Amish", do you refer to the Kalona Amish, who permit the use of propane gas, power lawnmowers, and rototillers, and allow tractors to be used for field work, with the stricture that tractors have metal wheels, so as to discourage road travel?

    Do you refer to the members of the Amana Society who, in 1932 during the Great Depression, voted to abandon the communal system and incorporate their holdings into a profit-sharing corporation, which in 1934 became known as The Amana Corporation (which produced multiple household appliances), and which separated the economic aspect of the community from the Amana Church Society?

    Do you refer to the "New Order" Amish?
    Or do you refer to ...?

    While taking this thread off on multiple tangents may be fun for some, out of respect for Bitterroot Native and his OP, shouldn't you perhaps start a different thread of your own to discuss the political and religious viewpoints and issues you desire to put forth and delve into?
     
  36. leghog

    leghog Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    8,343
    Location:
    3.99 ft east of 4 ft west of here
    On climate change, the issue isn't whether it happens. The geologic record shows events of global clime change, sometimes rapid change.

    The issue is whether man is now causing it and the arrogance of man thinking he can stop or reverse it. Follow the money and politics behind the money. Those who say it's "settled science" do not know the science.
     
    Denman, WY_Not, Lee C. and 1 other person like this.
  37. Dillon Finan

    Dillon Finan Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    Location:
    Del Valle Texas
    I know I am! I'm afraid they will find my secret fishing hole, morel patch, or my stash of fatwood!
     
  38. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,947
    Likes Received:
    34,919
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    Came across this in the paper today. With regards to the normality of daily EDC of a fixed blade in rural Maine, here's a lady who apparently does....

    IMG_6758.JPG
     
    Denman, Sandcut, Dillon Finan and 2 others like this.
  39. M.Hatfield

    M.Hatfield Midnight Joker #42 Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,323
    Likes Received:
    43,859
    Location:
    New England
    Not the fat wood! That stuff is worth its weight in gold. :D
     
    Dillon Finan and buckfynn like this.
  40. leghog

    leghog Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    8,343
    Location:
    3.99 ft east of 4 ft west of here
    Excepting you can buy it cheap at Home Depot.
     
    Dillon Finan and M.Hatfield like this.
  41. M.Hatfield

    M.Hatfield Midnight Joker #42 Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,323
    Likes Received:
    43,859
    Location:
    New England
    Fat wood is 30 seconds away from me in my backyard. Home Depot is 30 minutes away without traffic. :(

    Trust me, I wish one was closer by to me.
     
    Dillon Finan, x39 and buckfynn like this.
  42. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,947
    Likes Received:
    34,919
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    On the other hand, perhaps you don't.... ;)
     
    WY_Not, buckfynn, Lee C. and 2 others like this.
  43. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    7,883
    Likes Received:
    20,434
    Location:
    Gouldsboro, PA

    Eeek!

    I'm skeered!
     
    WY_Not, x39, buckfynn and 1 other person like this.
  44. TWill

    TWill Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2,393
    Likes Received:
    5,170
    Location:
    central MN west of Twin Cities
    Hey the Amana folks weren't connected to the Amish in any way just to be a stickler for detail. About as different as bluejays and cardinals.
     
    Stophel likes this.
  45. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    573
    Location:
    New England
    A) I was following up to Kennebego's post and suspect that Bitterroot Native can give guidance on how far afield he wants to see the thread drift. But, if you think I've gone off the rails while others who've drifted have not, please feel free to report my post to the mods.

    B) With respect to the huge variance among different Amish sub-communities, I fear either I didn't make my point well or you are misunderstanding my point in referring to them. Restating my point, IMO, individual consumer choices have little effect on sustainability and to get towards sustainability, you need large enough movements or groups to establish entirely new infrastructures. Various Amish communities (emphasis on the communities, not the individuals) have been doing this for years with varying levels of success.

    Bringing this back to the OP, my earlier point was that bushcrafters can expect to get looks from moderns hikers who will view their use of tools to harvest materials as being destructive to the land. Others countered that modern hikers are more destructive since they use plastic materials and the like. My counter to that is neither bush crafters nor modern hikers are sustainable and that the Amish generally give a better model for sustainability. Hopefully that accurately recaps the arc of this sub-thread.
     
  46. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    573
    Location:
    New England
    Here is a link to a list of the scientific bodies that affirm human causation of global warming.
    http://opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations.html

    I would cut and paste the list in this response but its long enough to blow up most forum software.

    The list of scientific bodies that deny human causation is easy... there aren't any.

    As for following the money, the UOCS got it right. Exxon/Mobil has been using the same PR tactics used by the tobacco industry to disprove the link to cancer (and that the evangelical church has used to disprove evolution).
    https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/legacy/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf
     
  47. AdamD1776

    AdamD1776 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    1,799
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    I wouldn't say there aren't any: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...th_the_scientific_consensus_on_global_warming (yes I realize these are individuals, not scientific bodies, but the point is still the sam e, it's not unanimous).

    That's not to say that climate change isn't happening, or that we shouldn't take better care of our natural resources, but unanimous (or close to it) agreement really doesnt mean anything. Lets not forget that there was once near unanimous agreement amongst major scientific bodies that the earth was the center of the universe, and that medicine was praticed by balancing the "four humours" of the body (bloodletting being a way of practicing this). These, and many others, were proven incorrect with the availability of further information, and theres no reason to exclude anthropogenic climate change as a possible future candidate for this list. Science works by continually questioning everything, and seeing where the new data fits, and modifying hypotheses when new information comes along.

    Once again, I'm not advocating for the destruction of our resources (I actually advocate against it), just saying its important to keep an open mind.
     
    WY_Not likes this.
  48. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    5,649
    Location:
    Ozark Mountains
    Are people scared of bushcrafters/woodsmen?

    After reading this thread, they should be.
     
    Beach Hiker, Gumbi, BalsamFur and 2 others like this.
  49. Akela

    Akela Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    I do enjoy your sense of humor, Pinnah. :)

    ‘Scientists only understand 4% of universe’
    https://www.rt.com/news/universe-physics-laws-energy-329/

    Sounds like 96% of the universe, which includes what occurs on our very own planet, still needs to be studied and understood.
    I'm thinking that anyone who claims that "the science is settled" may be suffering from a massive case of hubris.

    Who dares deny the hypothesis of human causation and take the chance of loosing their existing and future research grants and project funding? ;)

    But what does any of this have to do with people who may be scared of bushcrafters/woodsmen, many of whom are also modern hikers that just carry some different pieces of gear?
     
  50. leghog

    leghog Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    8,343
    Location:
    3.99 ft east of 4 ft west of here
    Consensus means little also when there is pressure to agree one way or the other. There was consensus against Wegener when he hypothesized the continents where once connected and "continental drift". That is until the advent of radar and the mapping of the sea floors and the realization of spreading centers and plate tectonics. Anyone saying it's "settled science' that man (or cow farts) is causing global climate change doesn't know science, and if they do, they should know better than to make the settled science claim ---- follow the money and the politics. Don't be surprised to see the same thing (the socialization of science) happen regarding many subjects. Subjects like gender dysphoria and gender construct, biology be damned. Consensus means little if there is money, politics, and/or pressure behind it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
    Lee C., Gumbi, WY_Not and 2 others like this.
  51. LongChinJon

    LongChinJon Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    4,901
    Location:
    TX
    Man, I thought I was a pretty smart guy, but a lot of the stuff you fellows talk about is beyond me. I would like to say I appreciate the respectful way the conversation is being handled.
     
    Denman, trailhermit, Lee C. and 2 others like this.

Share This Page