Bad trades

Discussion in 'Supporter's Trade Blanket' started by nothinghead, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    This forum has largely been a positive thing for most of us, however a few bad eggs try to bring us all down for their own gain from time to time.

    If anyone has had a bad experience with a trade, please try and work it out amongst yourselves. If you have been genuinely scammed or robbed, post it here so that we may protect each other from the degenerates.

    Those of you who may be planning to rip members of this forum off, be warned. You are not welcome here.

    I will maintain this first post with the list if any names are ever given.

    Username_____ Post that has relevant details
    Vilkas _____ 6
    Upthecreek _____ 9
    Alphachannel_____. 53, 61
    Dave rides bikes_____. 64
    Kenton_______. 89
    Atkins72_________. 90
    Jaxson________. 104
    Preptech22lr_______. 189, 190, 203
    bluemetalchurch_______. 267
    Wood PF_______. 286
    Any username attached to Michael sylvia---- Around 560
    Easyrider75________642, 643, 644
    08H3 _____________670
    Moreau Cutlery_______671
    Jim Farkle____________675
    Steven Long__________376
    jayt_______________814
    Whitetail________887
    Exy__________869
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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  2. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Hardwoodsman Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Great post, man. I have a feeling there won't be many in this thread but for the few that need it it's a good thing.
     
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  3. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    I hope it isn't ever used to be honest. Just in case we need it though.
     
  4. OutdoorEnvy

    OutdoorEnvy Guide

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    So will your original post be updated with the list of members as this thread grows? Otherwise, hopefully not of course, this thread might end up pages long as well and we'd be back to the reading through too many pages problem.
     
  5. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    I can do that. I don't expect this to be too long so that shouldn't be a huge undertaking.
     
  6. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Hardwoodsman Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    I'll break the ice on this one since I'm sure people won't want to look like the bad guy.

    http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/13267-Vilkas?highlight=vilkas

    Username: Vilkas http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/member.php/11722-Vilkas
    Hasn't been around for a while under that name. For anyone potentially dealing with him, he's screwed over people I know and a few that I don't. I even met this guy in person when he came to a meet, had no idea he would do what he did.
    His real name is Larry and he's from Nebraska. So if you run across him, beware. He's never come on to resolve anything in anyway.
     
  7. cellis

    cellis Post less. Do more. Bushclass II

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    I hope it's not ever used but I bet it will be. I would also say it is a thread with a potential for a fire keg so the mods will have to watch it. This would imo not be a thread to use because there was a scratch on the knife that the seller/trader did his best to talk about but you did not read. I hope we are all above that here and this is used for genuine scammers.

    And I also want to say a few good ways to avoid these bad trades in the first place (I run my own online business and have done so for about 5 years now as a family business, about 17 years professionally online total, and 35 total since I first played breakout on an Apple ][+ to qualify myself.)

    Know who you are dealing with firstly, research the guy. I have for example a customer in another country who has now sent about 7 emails trying to either milk me on price first or scam me now. He started with "I want this but the shipping is too high. I will pay exactly this only." And today came his latest saying the order he did place never arrived and he needs it within the week for an "occasion". My reply will include "Okay I will fill out the forms for a formal inquiry at the post office." After a few of these emails I researched it and found out he is a newbie ebay seller. Par for the course on that one, nuff said.

    Another is watch how patient and how cheap/chintzy with the trade they are. This is really a top indicator. If they want it yesterday for nothing then something is wrong right off the bat. They are trying to push you into caving and trying to be the big man in the deal.

    Never cave, always be the (polite) big man yourself. Stick to your guns.

    Have your formal options available at all times. If this was a paypal transaction bought or sold, learn their dispute system. If it was CC get on the phone to India or wherever. If it was a trade and a large one there are actually postal options for this, learn them.

    If you are the buyer you pay first. If you are the seller you ship after you see the money in your account. If you are trading you are 100% confident their package is going out as fast as yours or you do not ship.

    I am starting to ramble but I hope I am making a tiny bit of sense. It's something like dealing with a con man I suppose from Police shows and things I have seen. Learn that sense of something isn't right here, use it ASAP, and call in the formal back ups. Don't be a sucker, watch your back, and have the cavalry and proof ready.

    I've got way way more but you have to learn it yourself really and I hope what I say makes sense at all and helps someone. And I hope this thread does too.
     
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  8. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    I hear you Cellis. I will do my best to keep things civil here as well.
     
  9. Mrwhitetailfanatic

    Mrwhitetailfanatic Banned Member Banned

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    I don't think he has been on for awhile but Upthecreek ripped me off in a trade. I had made the deal the day before imlwdtmfor the HW meet. When I got back He kept giving me the run around. After 2 months I contacted Jason he told me to our him. I then told Upthecreek i would do it if I didn't get it in x amount of time. Never responded or logged on. I even spoke with him on the phone one day for an hour just talking about skills and gear. The deal was a machete and a few axe heads for a concil tool boys axe.
     
  10. Shnick

    Shnick Bushwhacker Bushclass II

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    I had good luck so far when buying from folks here, hopefully that will stay the norm.
    I've sent stuff off and tried to send a shipping confirmation number.
    That way folks can rest easy when it's in the mail.
    It costs $0.75 but does so much...
     
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  11. Wildcat

    Wildcat Guide Bushclass I

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    Delivery confirmation is a MUST. I got scammed by a buyer on a jeep forum a few months back. He filed a paypal complaint on me, said he never got the goods and wanted a refund. I called paypal, which surprisingly i got a live person pretty quickly. Gave her the delivery number, she looked it up. Bam, i won the complaint.

    Thats the long way of saying, spend the extra 75 cents like Schnick said. :)
     
  12. One Legged Josh

    One Legged Josh Dirt Merchant Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    DancesWithatrout. I dont need to link the threads. People remember.....
     
  13. Bush Otter

    Bush Otter Guide

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    I have had 2 trades that went sour for what ever on the other end,one after a long search was resolved the other the guy promised to complete the deal but never did , I actually had a suprize when I complained on the forum Iz cause he is a great guy sent me old model of one of his knives and I treasure it ,I did a trade with another member and axe for a sheath it turns out he couldn't make it to his own standard so he got a guy in Egland make one at conciderable expence which even I said don't worry about it he insisted to keep up his end and that is why I love this forum .
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  14. steve_t

    steve_t Guide

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    Good thread: you may not have many names on it, but that is also a result. It means you have created a deterrent and that's better than people being scammed in the first place. Maybe need a sticky on the thread?
     
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  15. ccwaters

    ccwaters Scout

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    A suggestion, this thread already has to much conversation in it, and I realize I'm adding to it. You should start a new thread, limit it to only Specific information relative to the "Bad Deal" I understand your going to edit the first post, but this still could get pretty lengthy and hard to browse.

    Three posts of the 15 so far belong here, discussion elsewhere, limit to names and facts.
     
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  16. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    CC, that's what I want, but can't figure out how to do that.
     
  17. Grizzix

    Grizzix Guide Bushclass I

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    Youd have to have a mod monitor it and pull non-related posts. I don't know that they would take the time to do it. They might, but I doubt it.
     
  18. ccwaters

    ccwaters Scout

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    maybe starting it with a basic set of ground rules, asking that they please be followed, limited facts, no discussion, that should be enough to keep discussion down to a minimum. If it is just an occasional off topic that needs to be pulled it would not be bad.

    You also have to consider privacy and legal issues, most forums have much more problems, so they've hashed much out already. I know most do not allow public posting of personal info, but that would have to be decided by staff.

    Kind of a little more to this then just starting a thread... Definitely needed, and a step in the right direction.
     
  19. Leif

    Leif Staff Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    It would be easier if the membership could copy and past the new person added into the the list. That way always keeping the information up to date.

    When the next one pops up, recopy the list, add your new name, and a description.
     
  20. Grizzix

    Grizzix Guide Bushclass I

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    True. We did that with the "Secret Santa" at Christmas. It worked pretty well if I recall.

    Grizz
     
  21. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    We can do that as well as keeping the first post updated. a list at the beginning and a list at the end.

    Username_____ Post that has relevant details
    Vilkas _____ 6
    Upthecreek _____ 9
     
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  22. madmax

    madmax Bushmaster

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    This thread has the potential to ruin someones rep on someone elses word.
     
  23. GrandLarsony

    GrandLarsony Guide

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    I fear we're gonna end up with "he said - he said" at some point, but I'm hoping that's not the case. Crossed fingers.
     
  24. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    That can be handled privately, not here.
     
  25. Leif

    Leif Staff Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Certainly could.

    I would ask members to think about it before they put a name up.

    Have you exhausted all avenues to resolve the issue?

    As Mods we usually get word of bad deals, people not returning contact. As this is a buyers beware issue, we don't take action against these people. Save they have a pattern of ripping people off. We ask the offended member to give it due diligence and patients, and when all else fails, call them out openly on the forum.

    Vilkas
    Upthecreek
    Dances with a trout

    All three have done shady deals and more than one. 2 of them were flat out scam artists who ripped off many. There are more for the list I am sure.
     
  26. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    I'm thinking the same thing, if you don't like someone, or have a grudge, throw his name out in this kind of a thread, and let word of mouth do a job on him.
     
  27. Bush Otter

    Bush Otter Guide

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    I have seen this problem handled a bit differently on other forums with a lot of trading and selling , we have to remember that there are usually 2 sides to a story or situation . So far in this thread I haven't seen any attention payed to the accused who deserves their chance to set the other side of the dispute up, what to do ,it would take some pretty impartial examination by a 3rd party to say the least.
     
  28. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    See Skog's comment above.
     
  29. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Hardwoodsman Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    We could close it down and let people who are long time scammers keep scamming.

    If a guy doesn't come on to defend himself after he's accused then that says something I think. And if he does come on to defend himself it should be allowed to go on in this thread since this is where it was brought up.

    Probably the best solution would be to have buyer and seller ratings. But I'm sure that's more than the owners want to mess with.

    What if someone had had a thread like this to call out danceswithatrout? It might have saved lots of people from getting taken in by him.

    I see two alternatives, let the scammers keep scamming or call them out and see if they defend themselves. Pretty simple. People can decide from there on out for themselves.
     
  30. Sylvan

    Sylvan Scout

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    Maybe it should be called an arbitration thread. The deciders are the viewers who see both sides or one side of the story. This way there are no immediate
    judgements made of a bad trade. In arbitration both parties present their case and let the viewers judge whether they are trustworthy or not.

    Goes like this I get a bad trade and take it to the Arbitration thread where I show how I got burned. You don't reply in a reasonable amount of time.
    You get labeled a bad trader. Punishment I don't know? Bad trader name goes into the bad trader thread.
    The benefit is it allows the dispute to be worked out before having ones rep damaged without cause.
     
  31. nothinghead

    nothinghead Guide Bushclass I

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    It is my opinion that the only people who should have a problem with this thread are those who do shady business. If you act with integrity and communicate well, there really shouldn't be any issues. We are all adults or at least mature people. If any member does not have integrity, then it should be made known to those who may deal with them.
     
  32. Sylvan

    Sylvan Scout

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    I don't have any problem with the thread, I think DBMF should be outed.. !!!
     
  33. Bush Otter

    Bush Otter Guide

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    Exactly how have you handled it in the past and are handling it now, I have taken my issues to a mod and let them handle it , BF has a good, bad and ugly thread that seems to woork very well you can have a look before you deal with someone.
     
  34. clc79092

    clc79092 Tracker

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    I can say that I have never had anyone short or cheat me on a deal on this forum. All I have dealt with have been upstanding and honest in the deal. Good people here.
     
  35. borego

    borego Scout

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    Not all people are are good people, regardless of what you might think
     
  36. One Legged Josh

    One Legged Josh Dirt Merchant Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    IA Woodsman stole Jason's heart. :)

    (worth an infraction, cuz its funny)


    Vilkas
    Upthecreek
    Dances with a trout
     
  37. rolandsilvajr

    rolandsilvajr Banned Member Banned

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    Not meaning to bash but great people here unlike some other forums like bf won't mention forum names. You guess. Had several people contact me about adventure sworn knives and I responded back right away then followed up and was told oh sorry I already sold it. Wth why did you contact me. Some real winners. One guy asked if I wanted to see pictures. I said yes so he posts the pics and instantly gets a higher offer than what he quoted me and sold it. Real winners. Sad part is he sold it for $235 was asking $225 I would have paid up to $300. Dope.
     
  38. WoodsJack

    WoodsJack Guide

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    Uh oh. If you don't go for informal public shaming and town square finger pointing then THAT proves YOU deserve it too?

    I have problems with a "guilty cuz HE says so... now YOU gotta' prove your innocence or counterclaim" in front of the entire forum in this thread like this."

    NOW, ALL you folks I've already transacted with HAVE to show up here to vouch for me having been fair, come through, and done you right. Right?

    What if they don't? Do I have to publically post our PMs and emails, then?
     
  39. Leif

    Leif Staff Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Everybody calm down. Stop looking for things to be sensitive about.
     
  40. Uncas

    Uncas Scout

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    Amen, no one's obligated to use this option, you can always just take your lumps and move on. Life's full of choices like that......Uncas
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  41. Infidel

    Infidel Guide Bushclass I

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    23,366 members and only three people are on the list so far. I dont think we need to worry about this thread hurting anyones reputation. If the person making the claim is a standup member, then Im sure all other avenues have been explored. This thread should only be used as a reference, not as gospel. Mistakes are made, things come up. As far as Dances with Trout, I encourage all of you to find him and do a trade. When/If your package shows up, send me his address.




    Vilkas
    Upthecreek
    Dances with a trout, God made me fluffy (same guy)
     
  42. NoseWarmer

    NoseWarmer Banned Member Banned

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    Bump...
     
  43. Croatan

    Croatan Tracker

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    You should see the blacklist on Archery Talk,
    Sheesh!
     
  44. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Hardwoodsman Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Haha. Yeah or Blade forums. They have a whole sub forum dedicated to it.
     
  45. injun51

    injun51 Supporter Supporter

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    Bad trades thread.

    Is there someplace to be able to warn members about others that have not lived up to their ends of deals they've made???

    Didn't want to start a thread that was already going, Thanks.
     
  46. Mr.LCV

    Mr.LCV Knife Snob Supporter

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    i saw one before i think 3 people were on it?
     
  47. GrandLarsony

    GrandLarsony Guide

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    I remember one, but I think it was killed off by the mods or maybe it just never got off the ground. My recollection is that most members thought it was a bad idea, too easy to tar & feather someone when there are always two sides of the story. Not sure.
     
  48. ZeroDarkThirty

    ZeroDarkThirty Scout Bushclass I

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    Edit: I'll take down the link since the thread got merged, but here is a great tip that I will remind people of that I saw GreyOne mention once- when looking for existing threads go to google and type in---- site:bushcraftusa.com and then what you are looking for. Best way to search the forum Ive found.

    For instance, in this case I typed in site:bushcraftusa.com bad trades and that was the first one on the list I think.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  49. Knifecraft

    Knifecraft Banned Member Banned

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  50. Knifecraft

    Knifecraft Banned Member Banned

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    Just brought it to-the-top!

    Thankfully there aren't a bunch of deadbeats around like some other sites:dblthumb:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
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