Bear Pistols

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by 41magfan, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. JoeJ

    JoeJ Supporter Supporter

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    Well, you might agree with me that the ole 30-30 sure did a terrific job on putting meat on the table until the deer, elk and bear started wearing Kevlar vests after which, some hunter's realized they needed more power.:3:

    You can load heavier with an increase in velocity for sure with the 45 Colt, 44 Mag and the 454 but all my handgun hunting has been done with reloads in the 900 to 1100 fps range and in most broadside opportunities they made 2 holes in the hide.

    My handguns range from the 22 rimfire up to the 500 Linebaugh Maximum and most calibers in between and the rifles ranged from the 22 rimfire up to the 460 Weatherby - the one that got my attention was the 378 Weatherby prior to the age of porting. I've still got my handguns except the Clarks & Shockey's that I used in competitive matches but I've passed along over half of my rifle collection I had to the grandkids and SIL's but since there was no interest in the Weatherby's - I sold those.

    45 ACP 2.jpg 45 ACP cutaways copy.jpg 45 ACP.jpg 500 Linebaugh Max.JPG
     
  2. PERRO

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    HMMM, Well,. You asked & I'll try to answer your specific question.:3:

    It's been my personal experiences, many folks " SKIM READ ", without paying attention to the finer, but important details. :11:

    So, with that in mind .. I'll make use of my computers writing/editing tools to " Highlight / BOLD FONTS / ITALIC " important details.. IMHO. :4:

    I attempted to share/post some information on " DFG " Regulations on a previous post, which I voluntarily Deleted.

    Unfortunately ..another person with more knowledge on the subject ..took some offense & had his own Expert Opinions :33:

    In my layman's Opinion .. Any " OFF DUTY LEO's " are required to follow allll " DFG Regulations " ..No If's, And's., or Buttts :56:

    I.E.:
    Frequently Asked Questions

    What are the Regulations for Possessing Lead Ammunition

    What about Target Shooting or Firearms for Personal Protection


    The regulations do not require use of nonlead ammunition when target shooting.

    Use of lead projectiles for target shooting is legal ( A ) unless CDFW or another government entity has determined otherwise for lands they administer.


    The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife.

    With the exception of ammunition for concealable firearms possessed for personal protection, ( B ) hunters may not possess lead ammunition along with a firearm capable of firing that ammunition in locations where nonlead ammunition is required.

    https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition


    Carrying a gun while fishing
    Posted on May 31, 2010 by CDFW | 2 Comments

    Question: I was out fishing at Pine Flat Reservoir this past weekend and I came across an angler................"

    Answer: There is a California Penal Code law that allows anglers to carry a gun while fishing and while hiking to and from their angling site. California Penal Code, section 12025 prohibits carrying concealed firearms in California, however, section 12027 provides the following exemption to this prohibition: “Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition.

    Remember that some areas that allow fishing, such as state and national parks, and some incorporated areas where fishing is allowed (C) prohibit the possession of any firearm. Make sure to check on the local laws where you plan to fish.

    The California Bureau of Firearms in the Department of Justice posts a summary of California firearm laws online at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/.

    https://californiaoutdoorsqas.com/2010/05/31/carrying-a-gun-while-fishing/

    So, to answer your question .. All depends on the above "A, B or C " :56:

    And to add to the " Confusion ".. Most if not alll " LEO Depts " require their Officers to carry " Dept. Certified - Authorized Firearms & Issued Ammunition " (LEAD FREE ? ), which they also advise ( Orders / Dept. Policies, etc ) tooooo carry " OFF DUTY " for Personal Protection ...:11:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  3. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

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    PERRO...have you looked at this one...should be Kalifornia approved...

    https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/357-magnum-140-grain-xtreme-penetrator?variant=7865933529145


    Birdman... I'm running standard 255 SWC hardcast bullets in a Kimber Stainlss Target II... With .45 Super cases they are running 1050 fps just like the BB rounds. Have had zero FTF in my gun and my friends Colt Combat Commander that my friend made up to take the place of a Glock 29/10mm that he just didn't like... BB has the same bullet in a .45 ACP +P at 930 fps...that is the same speed as a standard .45 Colt round...

    Bob

    Bob
     
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  4. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks for the info.. :dblthumb:

    The main issue's I'm having..is finding a local vendor that has any " CA Certified Non-Lead Ammo " in stock :11:

    A buddy was driving down to " LAX Range " & is looking around for what they might have currently in stock :33:
    https://www.laxrange.com

    I also promised the wifey, ..I wouldn't acquire anymore " Firearms " ..Otherwise, I might have picked up a " 1911 .45 or 10mm " :3:

    EDIT:
    They might be " CA Compliant " . But, they might not be legal to use for Hunting ??

    " NON -Expanding Solid Bullets ? "

    I.E.:
    https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/357-magnum-140-grain-xtreme-penetrator?variant=7865933529145

    §353. Methods Authorized for Taking Big Game.
    • (a) It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take big game in violation of this section or Section 250.1. The take or attempted take of any big game (as defined by Section 350 of these regulations) with a firearm shall be in accordance with the use of nonlead projectiles and ammunition pursuant to Section 2501. of these regulations.
    • (b) Definition. For purposes of this section, a projectile is any bullet, ball, sabot, slug, buckshot or other device which is expelled from a firearm through a barrel by force. The following definitions shall apply:
      • (1) A softnose or expanding projectile is a bullet designed to increase from its original diameter, commonly referred to as "mushrooming", and retain a significant part of its original weight upon impact with, or when passing through the tissues of an animal.

      • (2) Projectiles commonly referred to as "frangible" bullets, designed to disintegrate upon impact with, or when passing through the tissues of an animal are not softnose or expanding projectiles.
    • (c) Except for the provisions of the following subsections (d) through (j), big game may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles; bow and arrow (see Section 354 of these regulations for archery equipment regulations); or wheellock, matchlock, flintlock or percussion type, including "in-line" muzzleloading rifles using black powder or equivalent black powder substitute, including pellets, with a single projectile loaded from the muzzle and at least .40 caliber in designation...."
    http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/current/mammalregs.aspx#353

    I'm also unsure on the " FORT SCOUT MUNITIONS 9mm 115 grn ", that I picked up. :33:

    It's a Solid Copper Bullet, that Tumbles after impact.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  5. Naturalist

    Naturalist Guide

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    Here in northwestern Minnesota, USA we've got two-footed idiots, bears, wolves and Cougars. My "Bear Pistol" when backpacking or day hiking is a 4" barrel Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum loaded with 158 gr. JSP ammunition. I have the Ruger Blackhawk as well, but prefer the DA for speed.

    In my truck, and when base camping, I keep a Winchester model 1300 Defender alternately loaded with #00 Buck and 1 oz. rifled slugs.

    If I were further out west where the potential threats are larger, I would be packing at least a .44 Magnum DA revolver or 10mm pistol and the shotgun would be loaded with 1 oz slugs only.
     
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  6. flint45

    flint45 Scout

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    When I go to the far north country I have three guns with me a.45-70 Marlin,Rem 870 12ga. and handgun of choice is a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt with Heavy handloads with a 300 grain hardcast slug that penetrates like crazy. I can shoot it fast and hit what I am shooting at . But I always carry one of the other guns unless I am working or to loaded down.
     
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  7. DPris

    DPris Guide

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    My standard ATV "gunship" artillery is a Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun with heavy Garretts, and a 14-inch Remington 870 with Federal Flitecontrol 00 Buck.
    Handgun is usually a .44 Mag in a shoulder rig.
    Has been .357 in a shoulder rig.
    Looking forward to seeing the Glock rebuild when it gets done. :)
    Denis
     
  8. PERRO

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    Heres a very interesting " You Tube Video ", by Paul Harrel.

    45 ACP for Cougar and Bear Defense
     
  9. rmorgan736

    rmorgan736 Scout

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    50 cal bullet from a cva optima v2 with 100 grains of pyrodex......
     
  10. PERRO

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    Ballistic Testing: 9mm Defense Rounds
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
  11. 41magfan

    41magfan Scout

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  12. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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    Youtuber comaring 10mm to 357 mag shooting bear skull. His impressions of his tests at the end are good.

     
  13. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    did I miss what bullets he was using? one he plucked out looked like a jacketed round?- personally for bears I wouldn't consider anything but hard (extra hard) cast bullets
     
  14. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Guide

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    Now I could see one MAYBE two shots into the skull and investigate... What exactly did he expect top happen to the skull shot point blank 10X.... One of my 22Mag pistols would make a mess of it too! !

    CW
     
  15. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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    He said what bullets he was using at the beginning of the video and they were not what i would be using either as I am a fan of WFN hardcast for bear defense rounds.

    Actually the that thing that grabbed my attention in the video is that he said the 357 bullets, while making smaller holes, penetrated noticeably deeper than the 10mm rounds.

    I have decided to get rid of my Glock 20 as I realize I am a revolver fan. Once I decided to change firearms I started relooking at calibers. The 357 magnum with 200 hard cast grain bullets traveling at 1100fps from a 4 inch revolver would be a good woods gun, at least in my opinion. Or the other cartridge I have been considering is 44 special with a 265 WFN traveling at 1000fps. Really leaning towards the 357 magnum in a 5 shot Ruger for overall versatility and economy of shooting.

    http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-SP101-357.htm
     
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  16. georgej81323

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    Two things that are wrong with a five shot 357. The most likely have fixed sights that will shoot high with heavy bullets. The recoil will be really bad. That being said I carry my J frame a lot more than my L frame with a four inch barrel because it is just more handy to carry.
     
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  17. Nrah

    Nrah Tinder Gatherer

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    If somebody KNEW they were going to be attacked by a bear, later in the day, I doubt many of them would elect to carry a 9mm pistol.

    44Mag and 454 Casull are popular in bear country for a reason.
     
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  18. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Personally .I'd stay home.
     
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  19. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    in the very thick of grizzly country, w/ a downed bison? 305 grain hard casts (S&W 69 in a Razco holster) :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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    The Rugger 5771 has adjustable sights and weighs the same as a Glock 20 so not only could I adjust the sights for heavy bullets but recoil will be in the same range as the Glock 20.

    If I was going into an area that I really felt I was going to have bear issues I would not be carrying a pistol as my primary firearm, I would be armed with a short barreled open sighted lever gun in 45/70 or maybe a pump action Remington in 35 Whelen.
     
  21. PERRO

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    Home » Conservation News

    Flurry of Bear Attacks in Fall of 2018, Are You At Risk?
    Ammoland Inc. Posted on October 14, 2018 by Dean Weingarten

    Opinion

    [​IMG]
    Flurry of Bear Attacks in Fall of 2018, Are You At Risk?

    Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- It is the season for bear attacks. Bears are very active in the fall, when they must accumulate enough calories to lard up for hibernation. At the same time, human hunters are out and about, hunting all game animals, putting human hunters in the same areas with heavy bear populations.

    In the last month, there have been several bear attacks in the news.


    • On 9 September 2018, Dr. Brad Johnson was attacked and severely mauled. He had bear spray in his hand. He was attacked by two bears and was not able to use the spray. He almost died. His two companions saved his life with first aid. The bears were never pursued or found. They are thought to have been grizzly bears.
    • On 14 September, bow hunter Corey Chubon and Guide Mark Uptain were attacked as they processed a trophy elk in Wyoming. Chubon was mauled and Mark Uptain was killed. Bear spray proved ineffective. A Glock pistol was not used because it was yards away, and Chubon did not know how to use it.
    • On 29 September, a Tye Carlson, a bear hunter, was mauled by a 350 pound boar black bear in northern Wisconsin. Dogs that were pursuing the bear arrived. Carlson was able to retrieve his firearm and shoot the bear. The bear attacked Carlson again, until another hunter arrived and finished off the bear.
    • On 1 October, 18-year-old Anthony Montoya was killed by a grizzly sow and two nearly grown cubs, near the Hecla Greens Creek Mine in southern Alaska. Montoya reportedly had bear spray, but it was not found at the scene. The three grizzlys were killed at the remote site by Montoya's companions. The bears had fed on Montoya's body, only 35 yards from the group of people he was with. The drill site is reported to be noisy. The forest can be extremely dense in southern Alaska.
    • On 2 October, a hunting guide shot a bear that was charging three hunters and their horses. The bear attack occurred on the South Fork of the Shoshone River in northern Wyoming.
    Bear attacks are relatively rare, but in bear country, they are more common than being hit by lightning.

    Over the last 40 years, the bear population, both grizzly and black bears, has soared in the United States. As the bear population has increased, so have bear attacks.

    Grizzly bears have a high incident of attacks on humans and their property, considering their limited numbers.

    Grizzly bears have been strictly protected for the last 43 years in the lower 48 states. Black bears are many times as numerous as grizzly bears. Estimates for grizzly bears in the lower 48 are about 1,500. Black bears are about 450,000.

    Both numbers are imprecise, but there are about 300 black bears for every grizzly in the lower 48. There are about the same number of fatal bear attacks for black bears and grizzly bears. Black bears are legally hunted in most states where they are found.

    If you see a bear, and it does not run from you, consider yourself at risk. Most black bear attacks are predatory attacks, where the bear sees humans as a potential food source.

    In predatory black bear attacks, humans often see the bear with plenty of time to access weapons and defend themselves, if they have a weapon available.

    Grizzly bears are such aggressive top-end predators they should always be seen as high risk. A majority of grizzly attacks do not appear to be predatory, but involve aggressive attacks over territory, food supplies, cubs or other reasons. Grizzly bears do not need a human rational to attack.

    While bear spray has been touted as the best way to stop bear attacks, the common comparisons from studies of bear spray and firearm defenses are not legitimate science. Different criteria are used in the different studies. The authors refuse to release the data the studies are based on. There have been notable failures of both firearms and bear spray.

    Surprisingly, pistols have been used to stop bear attacks with considerable success.

    There are reasons people prefer bear spray to pistols. People who are not familiar with firearms, for example, are better off with bear spay than without any defense. There are places pistols are forbidden for most people to carry, by law, such as Canada, California, or New Jersey. There are plenty of bears in all three places.

    The primary reason to prefer bear spray is to prevent bears from being killed, not for saving human life.


    The problem with this approach is a bear that shows little fear of humans has shown itself to be a much higher risk to people than most bears. As a matter of policy, bears that lack fear of people should be (and mostly are) killed.

    The relatively small number of bears killed as threats to humans has no significant effect on bear populations.

    Even the extreme number of aggressive grizzly bears killed to protect people in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem (GYE), (35, or about 5% in 2017) has not prevented the grizzly population from expanding.

    Bear populations have to be limited to prevent unacceptable levels of risk to humans and human property. The only question is: what level of bear populations are acceptable?

    Bears will not limit their own populations. Bear populations will expand as long as there is a sufficient food supply and habitat. That food supply includes human crops, human livestock, and (rarely, in the last hundred years) humans.

    People who do not live with bears are willing to accept much higher bear populations than people who do.

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/a-...ail&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-43b3eb55e5-21306587
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  22. DPris

    DPris Guide

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    Good post.
    Denis
     
  23. DKR

    DKR Scout

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    Bear pistol. More likely than not will get you killed.

    Professionals in Alaska carry a 12 ga shotgun. This summer we had a 'hiker' killed and partially eaten here within the Municipality. Later, a man looking for the "lost hiker" was badly mauled.

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/wil...ce-responding-to-bear-mauling-in-eagle-river/

    http://www.ktva.com/story/38643053/biologists-kill-bear-suspected-in-eagle-river-maulings

    If you observe the photo - the men are all carrying a shotgun.

    Yes. I'll admit last summer a couple of hikers managed to kill a brown bear in Denali park with a 45 ACP pistol. And a 45 ACP is better than a rock. But why carry a rock or a pistol, when a proven weapon is available?

    It's a free country, carry as you wish, for me, that choice is a shotgun.
    /end of thread derail
     
  24. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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    I was just helping a friend site in his 12 guage, huge holes in my target board.

    The reliability of the 870 with a big can of kick ass. Ya, I have to agree if I really thought i might be eaten by going outside a 12 guage pump is a show stopper.
     
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  25. DPris

    DPris Guide

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    The shotgun is a great tool, WITH slugs.
    Unfortunately, I've yet to find a holster system that works to keep it always on my body, immediately accessible.

    On the other hand, I do have chest rigs for .44 Mags & this new Glock 10mm when it gets done.
    So...….
    Denis
     
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  26. A Seedy Lot

    A Seedy Lot Scout

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    But since I am not in fear of a bear eating me even thou I do live in Grizzly bear country I like to carry a lighter weight firearm that will kill a bear with a CNS shoot and I am ok trading weight for bigger deeper holes.

    I also am at the point where I want to start harvesting grouse. I have turned down harvesting food because I did not want to fire of the Glock 20 and loose a piece of brass. I do have a Super Redhawk with a 5 1/2 barrel, it is large enough I do not want to take it out much but if i was going into a situation where I might need to shot a bear at close distant it would be my firearm of choice and I think I would load it with the first shoot being a 300 xtp followed by 300 grain bullets I cast that have a 0.314 meplat.

    I do occasionally carry a bear pistol but I am more likely to make plenty of noise traveling through the woods to alert all to my presence and make sure to avoid carrion birds than carry a pistol. But if I had a 5 shot 357 I might start carrying a little more...
     
  27. longcruise

    longcruise Scout

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    @DKR

    I agree on the 12ga being a top choice as Bear medicine. One of my customers used one to terminate a grizzly near Homer AK when the bear tore the door off his trailer and came on in.

    But, i chose the .45 ACP when moose hunting because it was a muzzleloader hunt in grizzly country. So, if you are hunting and your hunting weapon is not a good choice for bear protection (neither is a single shot 12 gauge IMO) the "protection" gun needs to be something that you can carry.
     
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  28. Paulyseggs

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    What slugs you folks using with 12ga?
     
  29. JoeJ

    JoeJ Supporter Supporter

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    Some of you might have competed in track, either in high school, college or both. You have probably witnessed some fast 100 meter sprinters - compared to a bear, any healthy bear, all human sprinters are SLOW.

    A bear will cover 51.3 feet in a second at top end - the current world's top record holder for the 100 meter dash will cover 34.5 feet in a second at top end. The rest of us mortals won't quite be that fast, regardless of the adrenalin boost one might get in a race with a bear.

    I would think most bear mauling's occur when a person approaches a bear from the upwind side and the wind noise is sufficient to mask the persons approach - that bear will be startled and will either turn & burn or charge you. If he charges, depending upon the distance between you, which will be a short distance, probably 50 feet or less, I doubt many have the reflexes to get any type of firearm into action prior to contact.

    I think most people carry a firearm/bear spray in the wild with big tooth, fang & claw creatures in the area for the same reason as I do - for peace of mind, just in case I'm the most unluckiest guy on the planet that particular day. I think I'm quick with a pistol but I know I'm not that quick.:2:

    I've had a couple experiences with black bears and I can tell you they have extremely fast reflexes and can cover ground extremely fast, all the while, mowing down pecker poles like they were tooth picks, as I've scared a few black bears and witnessed their speed and power going away. Nothing like stepping out of a canoe, lifting the bow onto rock, scale up a small rock incline/cliff and upon looking over the top - look straight into a black bear's eyes who was just laying up there soaking in the warm sun. If he wouldn't have bounced up, spin around and exited at Mach X, I would have pushed off backwards and drove into 35* water in a New York second. His reflexes were that fast, as before I had time to even think of danger, he was already on the move away from me. Plowing down pecker poles he made a commotion and Pa holler up something like "What's going on?" and I replied something like "just a black bear". When our eyes first met, he was close enough to smack me in the kisser and that's some close.

    If a bear intends to kill you upon contact after a charge, I'll put my money on the bear. In my opinion, I believe that bear was startled and his reaction to charge you was just an instinct to chase you away from his turf after you scared him half to death - he'll smack you into the ground and chew on ya for a bit - he'll lose interest and figure he taught you a lesson and move on. Won't take long in time, but might seem like an eternity to the person being chewed on. If he kills you, that wasn't his intended purpose, unless he eats part of you starting with your stomach. You'll need a few stiches but you will have a story to tell to anyone that asks.:dblthumb:

    As for the mighty 870 - as some LEO's and upland bird hunters will tell you - when you get real excited sometimes you'll short-stroke that puppy and that will be that for a couple long seconds. Carry what you desire, as it'll be mainly for peace of mind and consider installing a lanyard on that handgun, never a bad idea in rough country or on a ATV.:3:
     
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  30. JC1

    JC1 Guide

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    Some people try to "think" their way around bad situations while others shoot first and later give thanks to be alive.
     
  31. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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  32. Malamute

    Malamute Guide

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    Professionals? Professional whats?

    Shotguns are popular partly because they work fairly well with the correct loads, and partly because they are relatively cheap compared to most heavier caliber rifles. The guy that shot the large bear with a 9mm is probably one of the more bear experienced "professionals" we know of. Hes been a bear guide for a long time, and has carried a variety of things, I dont recall hearing of him carrying a shotgun, much if at all. Just saying, trying to make blanket statements doesnt work well.

    Slugs. So often we see people stating "12 ga with slugs" as if any slug is good, or they are all created equal. They most definitely are not, and Id rather carry a number of different things than a shotgun with the soft foster type deer slugs, the ones that most often break into 3 pieces and stay inside people in police use. Brenneke slugs are excellent, theres little excuse to use poorly designed slugs like the fosters for large animal defensive use. If somebody used them and they lucked out and they worked OK, great, but they are not very good slugs for large animals like bears. They are designed for stuff like deer.

    The statement "Bear pistol. More likely than not will get you killed" is incorrect. The information we have on actual uses shows that pistols are about as effective as anything else in most bear encounters. Yes, I prefer something larger and easier to hit with, like a rifle, but would not leave a pistol at home or not go in the mountains if I only had a pistol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  33. 41magfan

    41magfan Scout

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    I would think this could go without saying ......

    Most of the people who spend a lot of time in the woods (recreationally or professionally, and not actually hunting) are generally doing something with their hands and a long-gun requires the use of both of them.

    Secondly, history has shown us (repeatedly) that a gun that's more than arm's reach away (when it's really needed) might as well be on another planet. A gun propped up against a tree 10 feet away or stashed in backpack isn't a state of readiness, it's a state of optimism.

    So with that said, a readily accessible handgun is most often used for defensive purposes (against man or beast) simply because it's a weapon of convenience and practicality - not because it's the most terminally effective. Long-guns in most cases are the purview of a hunter, whose shooting is planned and deliberate.

    Lastly, most of the people who use and advocate heavy caliber pistols for defensive use (against any threat) have never used them or been tested in any scenario even remotely resembling a realistic circumstance. When the target is closing on you at a relevant speed (@ 25 feet per second) inside of 15 yards, most folks can't get more than one or two rounds off and most of those hits aren't terribly accurate. Service type pistols are just easier to get multiple hits with and several good hits with a lesser cartridge will almost always beat out poor hits with something more powerful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  34. Alphaholic

    Alphaholic Tracker

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    I once heard the greatest answer of all time to this question so I need to share it. I am surprised I didnt see it posted already....

    What is the best pistol caliber for bear protection?

    " all you need is a .22. One shot to the knee of your hiking partner and you will be able to escape at a brisk walk"
     
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  35. Bigghoss

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    Dude. That joke is so old Hugh Glass was tired of hearing it.
     
  36. bluecow

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    AMEN!
     
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  37. DKR

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    Tell ya what, never mind.
     
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  38. Fat Old Man

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    [​IMG]

    Bear pistols?!? I'm all about the right to keep and bear arms...But to not to arm bears!!!!
     
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  39. tcb

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  41. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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  42. fishiker

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    Regardless of the firearm I'm carrying I have no desire to ever have an encounter with a bear who may perceive me as dinner. I agree that there are better options than a pistol but if I were to pick a pistol from my gun safe it would be this S&W 44.
    [​IMG]
     
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  43. tamoko

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    If the bear is less than 100 meters and it starts moving in your direction - Fire the entire magazine along the bear nerve system and quickly climb on the tree. However, if he wants, he will answer. Pistol in this distance will do not help, SIG SAUER 202 Rifle in .375 H&H MAG good choice. Hand signal flares can help, the bear does not like this. Flares widely used as the Last chance by Geologist in Siberian and Kamchatka expedition.
    "If the brown bear is actually going to eat you, he will do it." An adage Siberian hunter.
     
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  44. longcruise

    longcruise Scout

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    In the US if you kill a brown bear or grizzly in "self defense" it better have been at extremely close range or you will probably be cited for an illegal kill. Grizzly and brown bears are notorious for false charging. With them it's about territory and food sources. They will kill black bears that dare to intrude on their fishing grounds.
     
  45. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    "Handgun: .357 Magnum revolver with .357 Magnum cartridges only, or a revolver .40 caliber or larger."


    So if I’m reading this right to hunt in my state with a handgun for bear it’s a revolver only game?
     
  46. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    My advise is to practice . with moving targets .
     
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  47. tamoko

    tamoko Tracker

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    The speed of a brown bear develops up to 60 km / h.
    For 100 m distance, you have 6-10 sec to make a dead shot. What you think this is enough for "extremely close range". If you not trained like SOF operator can you make a deadly shot from large calibre pistole in this time under stress? All this pistole just unnecessary weight to make a psychological illusion, to heavy for the magic amulet.
    If a bear in 100 meters have "special " interest for you and do not go away, this is "self-defense" to shot him "Rifle in .375 H&H MAG".
     
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  48. longcruise

    longcruise Scout

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    I agree with what you are saying, but unfortunately so many grizzly have been shot almost on sight by terrified people that wildlife authorities want to see powder burns on the bear.

    I for one wouldn't be shooting until the bear is presenting a better target. How fast they can move and how fast they will move are not the same thing.

    FWIW, yes, i can function under that kind of stress.
     
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  49. PERRO

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    Home » Gun Rights News

    Video of Charging Grizzly in Canada, Charge Stopped with Birdshot
    Ammoland Inc. Posted on October 26, 2018 by Dean Weingarten

    Arizona
    -(Ammoland.com)- There has been some difficulty in running the original JLM video. Here is a link to the video through the Daily Mail.

    A video is circulating of a man stopping a grizzly bear charge with birdshot. The attack and defense occurred before 14 October, 2018. The attack was in British Columbia. The bear was only momentarily stopped, but the shot gave enough time for the man to reach the safety of his house. If you study the screenshot of JLM firing his last shot, you can see he is aiming low, towards the legs. JLM confirms that was his intention. From Youtube.com:

    " I didn’t want to blind the sow by hitting her in the face so I aimed at her right side to hopefully trip her up to buy me enough time to run inside the house. I waited as long as I could, backpedalling and losing my right Croc, almost tripping me up, until she was just across the driveway and then I shot, which did trip her up so I turned and ran inside the house. "

    The confrontation was inevitable. The bears had claimed the man's property as their own. They refused to be run off by noise. They had been on and off the property for days. JLM has children. JLM dared not allow his children to move outside of the house with the grizzly and cubs asserting territorial rights.

    Grizzly bear sows with cubs are notoriously unpredictable and dangerous.

    Consider a human analogy. A homeless meth addict camps on your lawn. They are always armed with several knives. They repeatedly threaten you and your children. Their actions are unpredictable. You live in the country. The authorities will take an hour to reach you. The authorities are known to be sympathetic to meth addicts, and are hesitant to press charges against them. They are only doing what meth addicts do, after all. Addicts existed in Canada long before you were born. This gives present addicts some sort of imagined moral authority. If you or your children are attacked, mutilated, and or killed, the meth addict may be executed, but only if it can be shown that you did not provoke the attack by moving too close to the meth addict or allowing your children outside without adult protection. (sarcasm intended)

    The sarcasm is only slightly off reality. In an academic paper about large predatory attacks on humans, unattended children is seen as the greatest contributor to the attacks. Stephen Herrero, the oft cited bear expert, is one of the authors. From nih.com:

    About half of the well-documented reported attacks have involved risk-enhancing human behaviours, the most common of which is leaving children unattended.

    Note the deep green asymmetry. Approach a grizzly bear sow with cubs, and the sow is justified in attacking and mauling you. If a grizzly bear or mountain lion attacks your children, you were at fault for “leaving them unattended”.

    The person who was attacked on their property, JLM, gives a good account of what happened, how it happened, and why it happened. Most of these details are left out of media accounts. You can read the full account at the link.

    The comments at most media sites are predictable, vociferous, and ignorant:

    • The bear should be protected, not the human.
    • The human should have been killed and eaten.
    • The bears were there before humans were.
    The last is particularly ignorant, as both humans and grizzly bears colonized British Columbia as the glaciers from the Wisconsinan ice age retreated about 10-15 thousand years ago.

    from sfu.ca:

    The last glacial period in North America is called the Wisconsinan Glaciation, which is divided into the Early (80,000 to 55,000 years ago) and Late (25,000 to 10,000 years ago) glacial stages with an interglacial stage between 55,000 to 25,000 years ago. During the Late Wisconsinan glacial stage, most of Canada and parts of the northern United States were covered by two massive ice sheets, the Cordilleran, which lay to the west of the Rocky Mountains, and the Laurentide to the east.

    If all bears that threaten humans in a close encounter were killed, grizzly and black bear populations would still increase. A choice has to be made about what level of bear populations humans will tolerate. If bold bears, unafraid of humans, are selected out of the population (killed), there will be fewer human/bear conflicts. A higher population of cautious bears will be tolerated.

    There are many times as many black bears as grizzly bears. The number of fatal attacks by the two species is about the same. Black bears have been selected to avoid people. Grizzly bears need to undergo the same selection.

    The more people have propagandized that bears are simply fuzzy people, the more bears and humans will be killed in bear/human conflicts. Humans who live in cities where bears are not a threat are most likely to call for bears to kill and eat humans. Their life and their children are not in danger.

    Bears are not people. Bears do not think like people. Bears do not have human culture or morals. Thinking of bears as people is dangerous and irresponsible.

    If you must think of bears as human, think of them as armed human meth addicts. Interesting and attractive at a distance, but still armed human meth addicts.

    Bears want what they want when they want it. Bears do not respect property rights. Bears do not care about the lives of other creatures. Grizzly bears, especially, tend to be paranoid and aggressive, by human standards, much like meth addicts.

    Bears are not human meth addicts. Meth addicts need human society to survive. Bears do not. Bears need to be valued and tolerated by humans to survive near humans.

    Few people in cities would tolerate armed meth addicts camping in their yard, even if they are interesting and attractive at a distance. Do not expect people, who live where bear populations are increasing, to tolerate bears appropriating their yards as the bears' territory.


    Bella Coola Grizzly Charge

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/10/vi...ail&utm_term=0_6f6fac3eaa-10529b3ef5-21306587
     
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  50. Ahnkochee

    Ahnkochee Bushmaster

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    When I lived in bear country 37 years ago all I carried was pocket 22 auto, at the time that's all I had. I had one bear encounter but that stinky critter decided not to mess with me and my 22 and high-tailed it in the opposite direction. :dblthumb:
    I will eventually go on a salmon/trout fishing trip to Alaska, and when I do I'll have my 6" barreled 44 mag revolver in a chest holster loaded with hard cast 300 grain Keith style bullets, and probably bring my 12 gauge pump with a 22"rifled barrel and rifle sites loaded with 1-3/8 oz. Brenneke slugs. I was thinking maybe bringing my 45/70 rifle too but I don't want to freak out the TSA guys at the Honolulu airport. Maybe I should just bring my 22 auto since it scares bears away. :4:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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