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CA Hunting Legal .22 Rimfire : Copper Bullet Ammunition

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Gathering' started by PERRO, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    FYI:

    "
    Designed specifically for hunting or shooting in the Democratic Peoples Republic of California—or anywhere else that does not permit the use of lead bullets—CCI’s new Copper-22 .22LR ammunition is loaded with a 21-grain hollowpoint bullet manufactured from a unique blend of copper particles and polymer, compression formed into a bullet. CCI states a muzzle velocity of 1,875 f.p.s., but does not specify test barrel length, so we assume it takes a rifle length barrel to achieve that speed. CCI also claims that Copper-22 is extremely accurate, which we have no reason to question because most CCI ammunition is. A box of 50 rounds retails for $10.99.
    See it at your gun shop, or contact CCI Ammunition, Dept. OT; Tel.: (800) 379-1732; Web: www.cci-ammunition.com "

    Best Of Shot Show 14 of 38: CCI Copper-22 .22LR Ammunition | On Target Magazine


    [​IMG]
     
  2. svh

    svh Supporter Supporter

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    I believe the 1,875 MV, being such a light weight projectile. Interesting. Glad I don't live in Commifornia though.
     
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  3. RobOz

    RobOz Scout

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    I sure hope it shoots good for people that are forced to use it, but I have my doubts.
     
  4. Doubles

    Doubles BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Pretty expensive ammo
     
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  5. SlayerOfBunnies

    SlayerOfBunnies Guide

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    Pretty expensive place to live - in more ways than one.
     
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  6. SoreFeet

    SoreFeet Scout

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    I had no idea lead bullets were illegal anywhere. Gosh I'm feeling even older and more ignorant than ever. What was it grandpappy used to say, something like "back in my day a man could. ...", I'm starting to understand exactly what he meant. Did they outlaw lead bullets to save the environment that they're polluting, or was it a attempt to disarm y'all by making bullets harder to get?
     
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  7. americanstrat98

    americanstrat98 Supporter Supporter

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    I have no idea how a 21gr. Bullet will perform on game or at distances past 70yds. As far as taking two projectiles made from copper and lead that weigh the same, the copper always wins due to the length required to make it weigh the same as lead. Length and uniformity are what make bullets either precise or failures. Take Barnes bullets, they are fantastic projectiles for hunting and reloading and maintain over 95% of their weight when passing through bone and meat. :4:

    Saying all that, it makes me wince at the thought of using copper bullets in my rimfire barrels. The long lasting accuracy of a rimfire is bc they utilise a dead metal such as lead and low velocities. Most damage I see in rimfire barrels today is from cleaning rods:-/. Just make sure you don't put hyper velocity ammo in something like a high standard pistol, ruger pistol, 10/22, or any semi auto where the bolts rearward stop point is metal on metal. High velocity is alright in bolt actions, and lever actions. Ymmv

    I say the only way to find out though, is to set it up and make us some rabbit stew:)!
     
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  8. Darkstar

    Darkstar Tracker

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    You can almost certainly use these newer high velocity loadings in any conventional .22, why? Because they are only 21 grains vs standard 36-40 grain lead loadings. The recoil force on the bolt is probably the same, or very close to that of standard loads. Force = Mass x Acceleration, so if the mass is decreased, the acceleration can increase with no change in total force applied to the bolt face.
     
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  9. cstrickland

    cstrickland Scout

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    Fortunately I do not live in commifornia ,but if I did I think I would start looking toward a high quality airgun and develop better stalking skills
     
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  10. llewokj

    llewokj Tinder Gatherer

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    Is anything legal in California?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  11. cstrickland

    cstrickland Scout

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    Yes dictatorships and democrats seem to be about it
     
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  12. Polecat

    Polecat Polecat in a Poke Supporter

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    You need a little bit of weight to maintain velocity over the bullet's range, and to buck the wind. I predict that these light bullets will lose velocity faster, resulting in a shorter range, and also shoot much less accurately in crosswinds.

    Being made of a material much harder than lead, I also don't see how they could expand, so I also predict that they will cause much less organ damage, and more critters will run off and die slowly somewhere where they can't be retrieved, instead of being stopped within a couple of seconds before they can get up a tree.

    If they are costing that much extra per round, I don't understand why they didn't replace the lead with something like bismuth instead, which has a weight and softness more akin to that of lead. The migratory waterfowl hunting community has been using bismuth to keep their older guns shooting without using lead for years, and it performs far better than steel (and I assume better than pure copper, too).

    I think that these lead-ban laws are really dishonest, and lack any sort of scientific rigor. They are, in my opinion, an underhanded way to go about banning things, rather than directly stating what the end goal is.

    Re: Airguns, I still assume that you can't use lead pellets in them, either.
     
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  13. tleek

    tleek Scout

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    I have a box that I've plinked with. Haven't hunted with it yet, maybe someday, but seems to shoot just fine
     
  14. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    FYI: www.wildlife.ca.gov

    Nonlead Ammunition in California
    Effective July 1, 2008, the California Fish and Game Commission modified the methods of take to prohibit the use of projectiles containing lead when hunting big game and nongame species in an area designated as the California condor range.

    In October 2013, Assembly Bill 711 was signed into law requiring the use of nonlead ammunition when taking any wildlife with a firearm in California. This law requires the Commission to adopt by July 1, 2015, regulations that phase-in the statute’s requirements, but it must be fully implemented by July 1, 2019.

    CDFW conducted extensive public outreach during 2014 and proposed regulations that phase-in the nonlead requirement. This outreach effort included question and answer sessions at sportsmen’s shows, meetings with hunting organizations and a series of eight public workshops throughout the state. CDFW then presented draft regulations, as modified by public input from these workshops, to the Fish and Game Commission.

    In April 2015, the Fish and Game Commission adopted CDFW’s proposed regulations, which will implement the nonlead requirement in the following three phases:

    Nonlead Ammunition in California

    Certified Nonlead Ammunition
    See the full list of approved shot types.
    • While the Department has certified various nonlead alternative projectiles for hunting with firearms, projectiles designed as frangible (disintegrating) or fractional (separates into distinct parts) are not recommended for the take of big game and various nongame species (as defined in Sections 350 and 475(c), T14, CCR).
    • The following table lists currently certified non-lead ammunition (choose a link to go to the manufacturer's current information). This certified list will be updated as new applications are received and approved.
    Certified Nonlead Ammunition

    Frequently Asked Questions
    Question: Are Pellet Rifles included in the nonleaded ammunition ban ?

    Answer: Since pellet rifles are not firearms, the use of lead projectiles in pellet rifles is not prohibited.

    Nonlead Ammunition in California

    I planned ahead a few years ago.. :4:
    [​IMG]
    Two .25 cal Air Rifles, & one .25 cal Air Pistol.

    Airgun Hunting Guide Info
    Hunting Guide | Airgun Depot
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
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  15. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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  16. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    I was thinking the same thing. Years ago I was excited to try CCIs 22lr SGB (small game bullet) after reading positive reviews about them. I finally found some at a local shop but didn't test them for expansion before hunting with them. They are flat point lead bullets that I soon found out were very hard. They worked fine for head shots but showed no sign of expanding. After losing a couple squirrels that were able to get underground after being hit solid in the heart/lung area I quite using them. I've never lost a squirrel with expanding bullets hit in the same spot. My guess is the people giving the positive reviews I'd read were "varmint" shooting and not worried about recovering animals.
     
  17. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Quote from Website:

    COPPER-22

    Get accurate, reliable performance on targets and small game in a non-lead, California-legal bullet with new CCI® Copper-22™. The projectile is constructed from a unique mix of copper particles and polymer compressed into a potent, 21-grain hollow-point bullet. Combined with CCI's reliable priming and propellant, Copper-22 loads achieve a muzzle velocity of 1,850 fps and provide superb accuracy. "

    FEATURES & BENEFITS
    • Non-lead bullet suited for plinking, target-shooting and small game hunting
    • 21-grain ** hollow-point bullet **
    Compressed copper-polymer construction
    • 1,850 fps muzzle velocity
    • Excellent accuracy
    CCI Ammunition - New Products

    Based on the product description .. It's a " Hollow Point / Frangible - Fractional Type Bullet " ??
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
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  18. bluecow

    bluecow Scout

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    again ( sorry calf. res.) when calf. passes stupid restrictive laws on gas, ammo, cars, et al ...... STOP DOING ANY BUSINESS IN CALF! let the sobs walk sit in the dark and go hungry. see how they like their moonbat pols then.
     
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  19. bluecow

    bluecow Scout

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    P.S. N.Y.C. and your commie mayor that goes twice for you. God help the U.S.A.
     
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  20. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    I think you're right. Being a HP I assume its intended to expand. I'm just wondering how much velocity is needed for reliable expansion since its not lead. Will it still expand on game at 25, 50 or 100 yards? I usually hunt with handguns so I'm giving up quite a bit of velocity right off the bat which is the equivalent of extended range. I don't plan on using them, just curious.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  21. geojag

    geojag Scout

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    A CCI minimag won't expand at 100 yards, so I highly doubt a monolithic copper bullet would. I honestly think expansion is more dependant on velocity, penetration is more dependant on mass. Both factor on terminal performance. Of course it is more complicated than that, just a general observation.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
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  22. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Heres a very good website on Rimfire Ammo Research & Testing:

    Small Game Bullet (SGB)

    D-Rock Bullet Modifier
     
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  23. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    Good info. Sounds like his results with the SGB were similar to mine.

    "Aside from central nervous system or head shots on the squirrels, center-mass body shots allowed the squirrel to run a good distance and nearly every time make it back down into the hole. Of course the internal damage caused to the squirrel was going to result in a dying soon after being hit, but as many of us know, squirrels are tough and resilient critters with quite a bit of fight left in them even after being struck hard."

    Paco Kelly sells a tool called the Accu'rzr that I've wanted to try for years.
     
  24. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    I was doing a bit of amateur " .22 Rimfire " tinkering myself ..That was before the Ammo shortages began.
    [​IMG]
    Paco Kelly Accu'rzr


    [​IMG]

    D-Rock Bullet Modifier

    [​IMG]
    Sizing Die / Tip Modifying Sets
     
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  25. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    There have been other very light weight projectiles in various calibers over the years. PMC had a pure copper annular bullet for 357 mag that reached over 2000 FPS from a four inch barrel, IIRC. The thing is, these very light weight high velocity projectiles will shed velocity very, very quickly, and loose both killing energy and accuracy.

    And at 22 cents per round these are in the centerfire cost range. Not exactly going to make rimfire hunting remain popular.
     
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  26. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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  27. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    A bit more info from " CCI Website ".

    Copper-22™ # 925CC
    CALIBER
    BULLET WEIGHT (GR) BULLET TYPE BOX COUNT
    22 Long Rifle 21 Copper HP 50

    Velocity, ft/sec
    MUZZLE:
    1850

    50 YARDS: 1153

    75 YARDS: 989

    100 YARDS:
    890


    Energy, ft-lbs
    MUZZLE:
    160

    50 YARDS:
    62

    75 YARDS:
    46

    100 YARDS :
    37

    Trajectory if sighted at 100 yards
    25 YARDS:
    1.0

    50 YARDS:
    2.5

    75 YARDS:
    2.3

    100 YARDS:
    0.0

    CCI Ammunition - Product Detail
     
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  28. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    I'm going to sight them in @ 30 yard Zero, and hope its accurate within " - 50 Yards " for Hunting .....?

    I have tooooo many " .22 Lr " in my inventory, to give up hope of using them in the future :2:
    [​IMG]

    As a side note: I've been playing with a thought on getting a " .22 Hornet " (Scoped Rifle) & using .224 Caliber ( CA Hunting Legal ) Copper Bullets. Certified Nonlead Ammunition

    However, I already have a " Rifle - .223 Remington ", Brass & Loading Dies.
    I could Handload / download ( Subsonic -1200 FPS ? : Light Bullets 35-45 grn ) .223 Rem Ammunition.

    I'm now seriously considering getting a dedicated Varmint / Small Game " Bolt Action & Scoped ": Ruger or Savage in .223 Remington.

    RUGER
    Ruger® Ruger American Rifle® Ranch Bolt-Action Rifle Model 6965

    Savage

    Savage Arms

    .223 Gopher Loads
    To Bee Or 223, That Is The Question (Revisited)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
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  29. flint45

    flint45 Scout

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    I wonder if they have enough power to take a Condor? :54:
     
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  30. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    I completely forgot about the Hanned SGB tool which is the first commercial 22lr bullet modification tool that I'm aware of. I first saw it years ago in the book Hunting for Handgunners (Kelly/Jones 1990). Last night I was flipping through that book looking up a Skeeter Skelton article and saw that tool again. I could never track the tool down but its what had me wanting to try CCI's SGB when it came out.
     
  31. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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  32. Polecat

    Polecat Polecat in a Poke Supporter

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    Mannnn, those are some nice old .22s. :D
     
  33. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Just arrived in todays mail.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Size comparison, next to a " 40 Grn Bullet /Cartridge ". Brass case is a hair longer.


    [​IMG]
    A bit more powder & finer grain, than in the lead bullet cartridge.
    [​IMG]
    The hollow point was a very shallow " Dimple ", which is hard to make out in the photo.


    [​IMG]
    I had imagined the light " 21 grn Copper Bullet ", to be half the size of a " 40 grn Lead Bullet " (Federal).

    There was some discussion on the " 21 grn Copper Bullet " length, being to short to properly stabilize in a " 1/16 " barrel twist.. I didn't have any " 36 grn Bullets " on hand to compare lengths..But, I would guess they are pretty close to them.

    I'll be range testing a few on " Sat ", to determine how well they will group in a few older Rifles, that I would take to the Field.

    I see no reason to bench test them with " Heavy Barreled Match Target Rifles " ,. that I wouldn't consider lugging around for field Hunting.
    [​IMG]
     
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  34. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    A few more of my small collection, most are from the " ODCMP ".
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  35. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    UPDATE: Range Testing Sat: Weather Condition; Temps 80+ Degrees / Wind 5mph - with Wind Gust up to 12 mph.

    Rifles used today.

    [​IMG]
    Ruger 102-22 / Savage NRA 19 / Savage NRA 19 w/Scope / Rem 513T w/4x Scope / Rem 513T w/4x Scope


    No problems with .22 - Copper cycling in a Ruger 10-22.

    [​IMG]


    Accuracy testing was started using a " Savage NRA 19 " with Metallic Target Sights.
    [​IMG]


    Ammo used ( Lead Bullets ) was what I had on hand that day, to use as a accuracy baseline for the individual Rifles.
    [​IMG]


    Preliminary Sight in @ 50 ft.
    [​IMG]


    Five Shots center bull using " Sk Rifle Match Lead Bullets "
    [​IMG]


    Bottom Target , first shot with CCI Copper-22

    [​IMG]
    Five Shot Group with CCI Copper, bottom center bull, was best group ( Consistent of the day ).

    Continue -
     
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  36. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Savage NRA 19 w/Scope
    [​IMG]

    CCI Copper top
    [​IMG]
    CCI Copper bottom


    Rem 513T w/Scope.
    [​IMG]

    Five Shot group @ 50 ft.
    [​IMG]



    Target moved to 35 yards.
    [​IMG]

    Rem 513T w/Brass Scope
    [​IMG]

    CCI Copper aimed @ bull 5 , but shot high into bull 3 above.
    [​IMG]

    Continue-
     
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  37. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    I somehow lost a few range photos ( Tooo Blurry )..

    Rem 513T w/black Scope
    [​IMG]

    Heres an interesting thing. I didn't make any sight adjustments with any of the Rifles. The Scope Rifles shot one full bullseye high, using the CCI Copper.

    However, that didn't change ( 50 ft - 35 Yards POI ) significantly with the " Savage NRA 19 with Metallic Target Sights ".

    The front globe insert, is on the small side & doesn't allow much light passing thru , for my eyesight.
    [​IMG]
    I circled the two Bullseye with a green marker..They were right on the Bullseye I was aiming on.

    The Red circled group was shot after, using the bottom bullseye with a scoped Savage NRA 19.

    It was a hot day & the wind started to pick up about midday ( 80 + Deg / 5 mph Wind with gust 12 mph ).

    A makeshift penetration test , using a empty Aluminum can & filled water bottle , wrapped in a cotton T-shirt @ 35 yards.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Pass thru with no fragments recovered.

    I ended my day by trying to hit a few hard targets set on the " 50 Yard Berm ".
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    All my initial shots were high. It took two rounds fired to dope the range and examining fired targets, to figure out were to aim, to the left /right ?

    No problems aiming at the base of every Target & getting consistent hits & knocking over the Bowling Pins ( Makeshift Rabbits ).

    All thing taken into consideration: My Rifles are old & well used, using older type scopes ( Collection ). And I can't remember the last time the " BORES " were throughly cleaned ....?

    IMHO, I could make the above Rifles work ( 513T / Savage NRA 19 with Metallic Sights ) , once I get them zeroed with the " CCI Copper " @ 50 + yards for Hunting.

    I have a " Rem 521T ", which I might mount a newer style Scope ( Nikon PROSTAFF 4x32 Rimfire ).
    PROSTAFF 4x32 Rimfire Matte Nikoplex from Nikon

    Hope this was of some informational value....?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  38. leaf and lightning

    leaf and lightning Guide

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    Picked up a box of these at Wal-Mart last week, just to see if any of my 22s like them. Haven't tried them out yet. I wonder how much velocity they have from a pistol barrel.

    Sent from my RCT6773W22B using Tapatalk
     
  39. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    I've been playing with the " Nikon Ballistics Calculator " using the CCI Copper @ various Zeros & Target Distances.
    Scope : P-Rimfire 2-7x32 BDC 150

    Ammunition CCI: 21 grn Copper HP - MV: 1850 fps BC: 0.051

    I'll be using a " 50 Yard Zero ", for future testings , & limit my shots to within " - 75 Yards ".

    Set Sights To Shoot -0.28 Inches Low at 25 Yards for a 50 Yards Zero

    Set Sights To Shoot -1.28 Inches Low at 75 Yards for a 50 Yards Zero
    http://spoton.nikonsportoptics.com/spoton/spoton.html#:18


    Energy, ft-lbs
    MUZZLE:
    160

    50 YARDS:
    62

    75 YARDS: 46

    100 YARDS :
    37
    CCI Ammunition - Product Detail
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
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  40. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Supporter Supporter

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    QUOTE="bluecow, post: 3046287, member: 55614"]again ( sorry calf. res.) when calf. passes stupid restrictive laws on gas, ammo, cars, et al ...... STOP DOING ANY BUSINESS IN CALF! let the sobs walk sit in the dark and go hungry. see how they like their moonbat pols then.[/QUOTE]

    That's pretty harsh, In all probability earthquakes, landslides, forest fires, droughts, riots, drugs and disease caused by the ever increasing numbers of fruits and nuts being produced there the state will eventually self destruct anyway. I can almost see the new Hollywood sign on the hillside above Charlotte N.Carolina now.
     
  41. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  42. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    Additional interesting Review Info: Chronograph info with Rifle & Pistol.

     
  43. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    FYI UPDATE:
    CCI copper 22 hunting test with Savage Mark II. Looking at rabbit meat damage
     
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  44. NCLivingBrit

    NCLivingBrit Guide

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    Too light, too expensive and too much government meddling for my taste.
     
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  45. Roamer

    Roamer Guide

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    Thanks for your testing, @PERRO, very helpful. I wonder if this would be a good self-defense round in a .22 pistol at close distances...? The high velocity and muzzle energy compared to other .22 rounds would seem to make it so. Though it doesn't seem to expand at all, penetration seems good for a .22: 12" in ballistic gel and clean through both sides of a steel propane cannister in one of the videos I watched.
     
  46. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

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    UPDATE: NEWSY ;4:15 PM 03/02/2017
    Interior Sec. Zinke Repeals Federal Ban On Hunting With Lead Bullets
    It’s his first day on the job and Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke already signed two secretarial orders, including one overturning a ban on using lead ammunition while hunting on federal lands.

    Former U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) Director Dan Ashe put the ban on lead ammunition in place the day before President Barack Obama left office. Zinke said the policy was put in place without enough input from stakeholders.

    Zinke’s order repeals the ban on lead ammunition and fish tackle on FWS lands. Under Obama, FWS had a goal of eliminating lead ammo and fish tackle from wildlife refuges by 2022.

    Zinke also signed an order to expand access for recreation on federal lands. He was joined by hunting and conservation groups during his announcement Thursday..............."

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/02/i...als-federal-ban-on-hunting-with-lead-bullets/



     
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  47. flint45

    flint45 Scout

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    Tried it in my S&W k-22 would not chamber without using a plastic tool to push in yes I know what your saying only shot 12 rounds accuracy was ok but very low at 20 yards about 8 in. below point of aim.next I will try them in my marlin m-39.Marlin is super accurate with most all ammo.California sucks dems have ruined it a once great place to live ruined by liberalism.
     
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