climage change, gardening and other parts of life

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by lopie, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    the magnetic pole shift thread had some good chat about climate change -- whether ice age, warming, manmade or natural. I'd enjoy continuing that discussion here, but also and more specifically... how to prepare for whatever your definition of "climate change".

    any tangents in this thread is good by me. If the sheep (just teasing) want me to post links, I'll do what I can.

    Since I believe that extreme weather changes are coming, I started to dig a walipini -- https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&q=walipini

    basic concept of a walipini is an underground greenhouse that gets deep enough to temperature controlled soil. For my house, that means I need to get about 4 feet deep to get below frost line. Frost line changes depending on where you live. Also, maybe you're in such a hot climate that you need to dig deep enough for cool soil.

    I'm digging about 6-7 feet deep because that's just clay soil where I live so i need to back fill with good soil.

    I'm going about 10 feet long and about 6 feet wide. Along the length I'll build an empty box about a foot wide, 10 feet long, and about two feet deep for a cold sink and water overflow.

    If climate change never happens, then I can grow in winter. Since I think a mini ice age is coming, I might need the walipini for summer growing.

    Whatever you believe, a walipini can help control the temperature of the soil as well as protect plants from devastating winds (that I think are also coming).

    So, what weather changes do you guess are coming and, more importantly, what preps/plans are you exploring to make your life a little better during these changes?

    (it doesn't have to be gardening, maybe you're building a rocket stove?)
     
  2. LAKE CLARK

    LAKE CLARK Tracker Banned

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    I have learned not to think in terms of a specific type event. My theory is prep for everything, and for as long of a period as possible. To accomplish that I rely on hiding for three years, having food, water and shelters, plus anything that could ever be needed for three years. If it still sucks after three years, at which point I'll be 75 plus y/o then I will switch to plan "B".
     
  3. Uncle Duke 520

    Uncle Duke 520 Scout

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    You can't fool me, you're building the Freedom Bunker ! Make sure to stash lots of Slim Jims!
     
  4. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    what's a freedom bunker?
     
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  5. 8thsinner

    8thsinner Guide Bushclass I

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    A bunker where you can celebrate true freedom?
     
  6. Walking Crow

    Walking Crow Supporter Supporter

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    What do I see coming? More extreme weather events over the next few years. There have always been such events, that is the nature of weather. But the extremes (both directions), in temperature and precipitation will be more common. So will large hail events. I agree with @lopie that the 400 year solar shutdown will be ushering in a colder period for much of the world. How soon? I'm not sure. Could be on the doorstep; could be another 11 yr (approx) solar cycle away.

    Food is going to be a major issue. We are already seeing weather related crop failures in many parts of the world. Late frosts, early freezes, droughts, floods and major hail events all took their toll last year. I suspect this year will be the same or worse. What you can grow yourself will ease the strain on the supply for others and on your budget. Of course, your own crops can suffer from severe weather as well.

    If you have access to land, learning what grows their naturally and can be adapted for your consumption is a wise course of action. Carefully planted gardens, nursed along to harvest might just attract unwanted "harvesters" that you did not invite. A few acres of invisibly tended weeds (not that kind of "weed!) would likely be overlooked.

    If we are headed for colder times, it might be worthwhile to look into what type of plants thrive in areas colder than your current location. Now would be the time to see if you can get any of them established in your area. (This assumes that you live in an area where you would not be breaking the law by bringing in plants not native to your location (in the current era).
     
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  7. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    i agree. My biggest concern is wind. I think today's extreme weather events will become normal and the new extreme will be a whole other level.

    yup. One of my favorite youtube channels is https://www.youtube.com/user/MyanmarLiving where the host isn't some conspiracy nutter (like me), but just a businessman focused on food exports. He fell into this rabbit hole for no other reason than doing food and economic projections. He argues that these massive upcoming events doesn't have to be doomsday. He encourages people to learn, not to survive, but thrive. He's concerned that food production in canada, russia and other northern areas where they have success now will cease.

    The big problem is, just because really hot places will now have the cooler temperatures and more rainfall for food production, they don't have the right soil structure or nutrients, so it's not like countries/businesses can just move production. The ground has to be amended.

    this ^ ... While most of us will continue to be okay, food prices will triple or more. Unless you're wealthy, your standard of living will change.
     
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  8. Walking Crow

    Walking Crow Supporter Supporter

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    @lopie I am familiar with the channel you mentioned. He has an interesting perspective on things. It took me awhile to pick up that he is operating in an entirely different part of the world than I am. He often makes the point that many people today have no clue how to grow their own food and that now is the time to learn. I would agree with that. As I mentioned before, knowing how to use what is already growing in your area (weeds) may be a less labor intensive approach.

    While a farmer may pay for herbicides to eradicate pigweed and lambs quarters, a knowledgeable bushcrafter will seek them out (not from a treated field, of course) and know how to prepare and preserve them. Jerusalem artichokes have those lovely yellow flowers swaying in the wind, but at the right time of year, a wise bushcrafter will find a wealth of nutrition using a shovel at the stem's base.
     
  9. Akela

    Akela Scout

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  10. KFF

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    Things have already been changing. Summer was hottest ever recorded, new pests came over during those long hot and dry seasons and started at various crops.
    The winters have been mild with little snow. Nothing to kill bugs and diseases.

    We don't prep, we just live normal with what ever comes and if that's not possible, then we would die.
     
  11. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    yup! I really enjoy reading historical info and stories about things like this. Thanks for posting those links. I hope others appreciate them too.

    From what little I know, it appears that periods of solar minimum (mini ice ages) seem to correlate with volcanic eruptions. The Year Without A Summer was one of the reasons why I started looking into growing vegetables in less ideal conditions.

    For those you know this stuff... I thought the jet stream rarely crossed the equator, is that true? If so, then it seems odd that a volcano south of the equator affected the northern hemisphere so much, yeah? Does solar output (minimum in this case) affect the jet stream and allow it to cross over more often?
     
  12. Todd1hd

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    Changes take thousands if not millions of years and you and I and everyone on this forum will be long fone before climate change gets us. I am not dismissing climate change and I believe it is real and I believe man contributes to it, but there will be climate change with or without man like it has been for millions of years. Me, I will take my chances. If the climate no longer supports mankind, having a few vegetables in the basement will be of little value if you are the only person left.
     
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  13. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    how can you say that when Akela posted links (above) to a volcanic eruption that affected the planet in just months?
     
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  14. Todd1hd

    Todd1hd Supporter Supporter

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    And you and I are still here today, and barring an accidental death, we can carry on this same conversation this time next year, and the year after.
     
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  15. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    you seem to make an effort at belittling these types of threads. Maybe you don't realize that you're in the "preparedness" sub-forum?
     
  16. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Not true, we already live with these changes in the northeast. MA has had it’s growing zone changed. Trees are dying in mass die offs. Disease and pest pressure is at an all time high and one of the few plants just loving it is the poison ivy :46:. We are humans, we will live through this. You’re great great grandchildren may not ever know the taste of maple syrup though.
     
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  17. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Oh and something I’d like to address... barring a volcanic eruption to change this the fact is it is getting warmer not colder. How do I know? Simple, it’s what nature is telling us. Cold weather species of plants are dying and being replaced by warmer weather species. White pine, white ash, red pine, sugar maple... their range has been retreating north for decades. Places where they grew well outside their natural range are far more hostile and causing die offs. If it was getting colder on average they would be extending their range south not retreating north.
     
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  18. KFF

    KFF Guide

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    The poles melting mean nothing too...
    Melting way faster than predicted.
    Species going extinct faster, pests and diseases spreading, people multiplying, pollution getting worse, but who cares right.

    Things are going to hell in a handbag, but that don't affect humans?
     
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  19. Todd1hd

    Todd1hd Supporter Supporter

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    I agree with your observations completely. Changes are taking place and have been taking place for thousands of years. Some good, some not so good. But we will survive the changes beacuse we adapt. There are things my grandparents saw that I didn't see and things I will see that my grandchildren won't see. That is evolution of time.
     
  20. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Very true @Todd1hd , you and @KFF should check out the navy commissioned maps of what the believed US coast line will look like when all the ice is melted... it’s gonna get a bit crowded and we will be growing corn and wheat in Canada
     
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  21. Todd1hd

    Todd1hd Supporter Supporter

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    I don't disagree with any of the data in the least. I am only saying that in the end it is what it is. We adapt or we die. Climate shifts, warmer or colder are slow moving beasts.

    And totally on a side note, my wife and I love the entire New England area. Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, we do costal Maine in one trip, central and northen Maine in a trip, then we will do the sort of three state thing in another trip. So much to see and do you can't take it all in in one trip. We do trips in all 4 seasons as well. Actually spent Christmas in Maine this year.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
  22. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Oh, wasn’t implying you were. It just is interesting looking at that map. Especially if you overlay the most populated areas and realized a bunch of good sized cities will be under water... all those people need to move somewhere.
     
  23. Todd1hd

    Todd1hd Supporter Supporter

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    I understand, no negative inference was implied, sometimes writing words do not convey a persons thoughts well. I find it an interesting topic, but am of a belief we sort of take what we have and deal with it.
     
  24. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    are you doing/planning anything for warmer weather? Do you have a prediction to life in general and, more importantly, life for you and your family if the planet warmed by a few degrees?
     
  25. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    it does affect us. I'm hoping that this thread can create discussion on what could happen over the next 20 years. Do you have any guesses or links to projections on what could happen... and more importantly, what we can do for ourselves/family to improve our own situations?
     
  26. KFF

    KFF Guide

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    Move to high enough altitude, far enough that the crowds don't follow.

    When cities go under there is going to be plenty of despair, loss of property and jobs wont make a bunch of happy campers.
     
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  27. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    but it's much easier to adapt when you start the process before it happens. Yet you continue to poop on these types of threads. Maybe you can contribute ideas instead?

    For example, you cannot amend soil in one day unless you have money and someone willing to sell you whatever your soil needs. While my efforts to grow food the last few years haven't been successful, I have been composting a lot, so my soil is improving (for free). Maybe you have enough money to throw at problems as they occur and you need no advanced planning?
     
  28. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Nope, even when everything is melted my property won’t be waterfront. Truth of it is things will shift. States will get more crowded as people move around. Food will be grown in new places. Hurricanes will be stronger so make sure you have a strong roof... I’ll have to actually get air conditioning at some point but hey I won’t have to shovel snow much. Other countries will have it far worse than us so expect some immigration.
     
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  29. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    this map?

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    You’ve mentioned soil amendment multiple times in other threads... what are you lacking in your soil?
     
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  31. KFF

    KFF Guide

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    "some immigration" like half of Asia and all Caribean and then some.
     
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  32. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    this is my biggest concern as it takes more than rain and better temperatures to grow food. Where the weather is better, the soil might not be any good. It might lack nutrients and structure. I'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff, so correct me if i'm wrong
     
  33. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    my soil is very clay-like.
     
  34. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    and migration leads to conflict.

    are you allowed firearms in Finland?
     
  35. KFF

    KFF Guide

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    It takes a lot of work to get sand growing crops the level that is needed to feed the growing crowds.
    It's difficult as it is now, never mind after loosing loads of land to sea and it's happening worldwide.
     
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  36. lopie

    lopie Scout

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  37. KFF

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    Yes we one can get a permit for hunting or target practise. No ar kinda toys though. Assuming one is right in the head that is.
     
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  38. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    No, that is a fake map that went around Facebook. There is a real one though that was included in a presentation to Congressmen when they were looking to get funding to future proof some naval bases. I’ll have to see if I can find it.
     
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  39. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    this ^

    I believe that China is making a huge push to acquire as much of Africa as they can and are working to improve the land for their needs. I think they know what's coming -- or they simply acknowledge that they've really screwed up their own land -- and are making plans.
     
  40. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Asia will be Russia’s Problem mostly. That is the closest nation which will have minimum impact from the warming.
     
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  41. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    But what if the factors that could lead to a mini ice age overwhelm the factors leading to global warming? Adapt 2030 on youtube has shown many factors (eg. solar minimum, planetary alignment,etc.) where if we do go into a mini ice age, then food production 40* north will go off-line, meaning Russia will have no food, meaning WWIII.

    OR...

    what if BOTH?

    What if parts of the planet get a lot warmer and other parts get a lot cooler -- from all the factors that both sides mention? We'll become a hurricane/typhoon planet.
     
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  42. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Naa, just like when they turned the desserts of Cali to farm fields... only it’ll be forest land in Canada. It won’t take as long as people think. It took more effort to turn Cali into the farming nightmare it is than moving operations to other areas. Are we going to lose certain crops, yep. There is always another food though that people didn’t eat. How rare were bananas, avocados, etc 100 years ago. You live in a good paradise right now, the options will narrow but not disappear. People will eventually be forced to grow some of their own food though... at least till ww3 which will be fought over fresh water and food.
     
  43. gila_dog

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    In my world climate change is constant, from one year to the next. And it's usually extreme. There have been some bad droughts. Occasionally we'll have a wet year. Some years are hotter or colder, but it is definitely getting drier. Less snow in the mountains, and that means less water the rest of the year, and more forest fires. That means more chance of losing power due to burned up power lines, and then big floods when the summer rains come. We've "prepped" for such things by making our house as easy to live in, without power, as possible. Solar water heater. Passive solar heat and a wood stove in the winter. Shade on the west side in the summer. A big advantage we have is that we have a camp trailer with a fully functioning solar power system. PV panels on the roof charging a couple of RV batteries. In a long power outage I can bring a charged battery into the house and we can power up lights, computers, TV, etc. The trailer has a propane refrigerator so we can use that when the grid power goes down for a long time. We live in a remote place with only a small village nearby and some scattered ranches. Being ready for extreme, and changing, conditions is just part of normal life for people here. But nobody seems to be worried about the distant future. Just adapt to the conditions, prepare for the worst, and get on with life. You can't do much about the rest of the world anyway.
    By the way, @lopie, your avatar seems really appropriate for the theme of this thread.;)
     
  44. KFF

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    China owns quite a bit of us too, companies, land, national debt.
    Will they be waiting for happier times to cash it in?

    Africa is going to be uninhabitably hot, so not growing any food either.

    The price of land in those areas that are will sky rocket.

    We'll be living on an island in the future, but most likely will cash out on the property, 3 acres +400ft above sea level quite near the current capital.

    Shall be moving to the summer cottage, even more elevation there and as it is an island already, wont have neighbours too soon.
     
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  45. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Sorry, I don’t believe we are headed to an ice age. As I said, if we were the cold weather species wouldn’t be moving north, they’d be moving south. Solar minimum doesn’t do anything to great effect... it only lasts 11 years on cycle. Planets have little to no effect unless they are suddenly going to line up and block the sun blotting out our sky for years.... volcano is temporary as far as a fix... that stuff comes out of the atmosphere over a relatively short period of time (but would cause havoc for a few years if the event was big enough). If it was a cataclysmic eruption most of us are dead and buried in ash anyway... just saying.
     
  46. KFF

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    And the changes already happening, last summer drought destroyed both crops and grass, so no feed for the cattle nor man. The summer before it was rain. Farms going under like never before. Farmer suicides in all time high as is animal cruelty cases.
     
  47. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Drought is nothing new though, dustbowl, grapes of wrath wasn’t written without some grain of truth.
     
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  48. TrespassersWilliam

    TrespassersWilliam Supporter Supporter

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    "Your blood is white!" he said. "You have taken my talk and the sticks and the wampum and the hatchet, but you do not mean to fight. I know the reason. You do not believe the Great Spirit has sent me. You shall know. I leave Tuckabatchee directly and shall go to Detroit. When I arrive there, I will stamp on the ground with my foot, and shake down every house in Tuckabatchee!"
     
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  49. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    92 million years ago.jpg
    Vanitas,
    When you find that Navy map, I'd like to see how it compares to this depiction of conditions that are believed to have existed 92 million years ago... then we could compare it with water levels believed to have existed during the period of the existence of the Bering Land Bridge only some short 20,000 years ago...
    Climate change has been going on for a very long time, swinging back and forth, then back and forth again, and again.
    Who actually believes that "the science" is truly settled? Politicians who don't understand science?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019
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  50. Toytech

    Toytech Scout

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    Had a good laugh at this line , i know Im living in the land of igloos and dog sleds but farms do cover alot of the provence and grow alot of wheat , grain , canola , oh and corn not to mention alot of farming of peas , beans , lentils and other legumes for shipping to India . Its not as barren as we make you guys think , thats just a ploy to keep you guys down south . We have been on a long term warming trend and have actually gone up a usda climate zone we were 3b i think and now we are a 4 , but we do have a mini ice age almost every year , started in september this year and probably wont be over until april but thats normal for us.
     
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