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Gout!

Discussion in 'Bush Medicine' started by Riverpirate, Nov 4, 2016.

  1. Riverpirate

    Riverpirate Supporter Supporter

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    Getting old is tough. Yesterday at the eye doctor I was told I have early stages of cataracts. I walked into the eye doctors just fine, but after an hour trying to walk out with gout was hard...sleeping last night was not easy either. Any Bushcraft cures?
     
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  2. Paul Caruso

    Paul Caruso Tracker

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    What has worked for my gout is sour cherries. I also try to stock up on sour cherry powder. Make sure you drink lots of water to flush out the uric acid. There are quite a few vegetables that will help reduce uric acid as well. The trigger for me is sugar. Whenever I eat too much of it I start to feel it in the big toe.
     
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  3. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    Ibuprophen / Motrin will reduce the swelling and relieve the pain. Prescription dosage is 800mg every eight hours. Over the counter ibuprophen is 20"mg, so four of those will equal prescription strength.

    Otherwise, dietary changes will reduce the uric acid. Drink gallons of water. If your wife takes diuretics, take one each day to help flush you out. Any doctor will tell you not to take someone else's medications, but it will work, nonetheless.

    Under a microscope, uric acid crystals look like broken glass, which is why it hurts so much in your joints, usually on the big toe.

    Steve
     
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  4. plumberoy

    plumberoy Guide

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    Tart cherry juice Supplement places sell it in pill form, diet change. I was to the point I was having a flare up every 4-6 weeks I finally just went and got a script for alipurinol from the doctor haven't had a problem since
     
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  5. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    This.......So far a maintenance daily dosage has kept in under control.

    Diet is important if you know your triggers....and a lot of heart healthy, greens can be a trigger as well as legumes, peas and beans.
    Cherry juice does help some if mine is just starting...but if it gets a good start....you can drink all you want or eat the fruit....and it won't help me much.

    I gave up trying to self medicate and just went to a Dr.....so far so good.....
    Good luck.
     
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  6. backwoodstrails

    backwoodstrails anatidaephobic Supporter

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    We all metabolize differently so what worked for me may not work for you.
    It was difficult but I gave up meat (all animal products) except for a once a month treat. Reduced refined sugars and refined foods in general. Mostly plant based eating.
    Uric Acid dropped significantly (no meds) - Cholesterol numbers dropped significantly. Not very "Bushcrafty" to turn down bacon but we do what we have to do.
    Lots of Sriracha sauce seems to help with flavor and spicy Thai food has lots of veggie options for a nice treat.
     
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  7. T MAC

    T MAC Old Squid Supporter

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    Diet and water and as stated also
     
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  8. WhisperInThePine

    WhisperInThePine Wubba lubba dub dub Supporter

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    Just getting over a gout attack myself.

    Tart cherry juice, lots of water. Cut out the fats, red meats, sugars, shellfish, alcohol and spicy foods. The latter two are hardest for me. Even some vegetables (asparagus and cauliflower) are supposedly bad.

    The past year I've had 7 gout attacks, I usually have one a year. I've been trying to dial in the root cause, and am certain it's not alcohol has I've been drinking far far less alcohol than ever before.
     
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  9. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    +1 on some of the things already stated: diet, water and sour cherry.


    Here are some more:

    1. Celery Seeds. An extremely powerful diuretic and very good for gout. You can get it in extract (liquid) form. Whole celery should help, but it is the seeds that really do it.

    2. Turmeric. Gout is essentially a type of arthritis. Turmeric is good for arthritis and inflammation in general. Avoid taking aspirin. The salicylic acid in aspirin makes it difficult to flush out uric acid. Turmeric is a far better choice and helps your body with all kinds of other things as well. It also helps with the pain. Spices That Can Serve Multiple Purposes

    3. Apple Cider Vinegar (organic, raw, etc.--Bragg's). Mixed with honey and taken orally. It is a good idea to swish water in your mouth and rinse afterwards*. You can also soak the afflicted part in it.

    4. Burdock. It helps eliminate uric acid.

    5. Stinging Nettle.

    6. Elder flower.

    7. Horseradish. Apply to afflicted area.

    8. Licorice.

    9. Blessed Thistle.

    10. Kava Kava.

    11. Comfrey.

    12. Lemon Grass.


    * Edit: Some people say to wait 30 mins or so before brushing. They say that the tooth enamel is in a weakened state after taking ACV. The idea is to not leave it on for a long time before brushing. I usually rinse immediately afterwards.



     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  10. MHW

    MHW Tracker

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    Following the diet really helps. Very little red meat and alcohol, basically. (maybe once a week is OK)
     
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  11. rmorgan736

    rmorgan736 Scout

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    my grand mother from greece would get it now and again and now i have a touch of it once in a while we make a tea out of greek oregono bay leaves rosemary and dried grape fruit skin steep in a big cuo
    p or pot add a big tablespoon of honey and last but not least stir in a small teaspoon (very small its ca ca if you put too much)of baking soda sip it three times a day for a day or too with lots of water inbetween.this works suprisingly well.

    not too ofend but if the pain gets ral bad as you know it can if you add ground canibis too one stick of butter (not margarin) and melt it togrther then put a tablespoon in youre tea it will help with the pain........like i said i dont mean too ofend folks from the old country did things a bit diferent it was not always posible too get too a doctor.
    good luck........bob
     
  12. backwoodstrails

    backwoodstrails anatidaephobic Supporter

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    I take no offense to your post but grinding up cannibals seems drastic!


    Edit: I gotta slow down when I read stuff....
     
  13. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    A quick field expedient would be to take about a half cup of charcoal and add water to make a paste.

    The paste could be applied to the afflicted area.

    You could also throw the paste into some water so you could soak the area.

    The charcoal will absorb the uric acid.

    Obviously, activated charcoal would be preferable--but you use what you have on hand in an emergency.


     
  14. Crusher0032

    Crusher0032 Scout

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    Cherry juice during a flare and cherry pills as a preventative in between, especially if you've been eating/drinking a lot of stuff that'll aggravate your gout. I went on allopurinol for a while also but have been off of it for over a year without a flare. The cherry stuff seems to work well.

    Genuinely sorry for anyone who has it, my first flare took forever to get calmed down. It's odd to be in a place where you're seriously considering chopping off your own foot because that will hurt less. I swear it hurts to shine a light on it during a flare.
     
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  15. Prophet68

    Prophet68 Tracker

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    I use cherries, cherry juice, and cherry powder capsules to manage mine.
    Something I found out that most don't know is, nutrisweet, equal, acesulfame K, acesufame potassium, (all the same basic chemical, aspartic acid) will cause absolutely EVIL flare-ups typically. I've learned to avoid it like its the plague.
     
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  16. WildMedGuru

    WildMedGuru Scout

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    Chopping block - and your favorite axe.
    Works every time.

    But seriously...Eat more fruits (cherries), vegetables (shrooms, spinach, broccoli) and low fat dairy (yougurt, milk) / Avoid foods such as white breads, cakes, candy, soda, etc... / Avoid liver, kidney, herring, sardines, mussels , scallops, trout, hadock, mackerel and tuna / limit red meats and bacon (sorry) - at least in moderation
     
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  17. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Gout Diet...or whatever ails ya....
    Oatmeal, Snickers bars.........and water.
     
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  18. MohaveGreen

    MohaveGreen Guide

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    I too used to suffer (since my 20s, I'm 40 now). I tried all the "traditional" methods mentioned above. They didn't help much at all. So I got on the meds - allopurinol, to be precise. That helped, but it wasn't a permanent fix. Then I switched over to a primal / paleo diet. My joints, all of them, shrunk down to normal size as I lost weight and got rid of all the inflammation I didn't know I had. I ultimately took myself off the meds, and although I've really fallen off the wagon and put some lbs back on, I haven't had a flare up in a few years now. The primal / paleo method really kind of turns the whole uric acid / purine school of thought on its head, and it worked wonders for me. Check out marksdailyapple.com. Search for gout on the site. Read the success stories. Make up your own mind as to whether you want to give it a try. But at the very least you will have exposed yourself to some additional information on the topic. Good luck regardless - I know how miserable it is and I hope you find something that works for you.
     
  19. mainewoods

    mainewoods Maine Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    I have attack twice or sometimes 4 times a year good I eat. Been drinking cherry juice and lemon water each morning seems to help.
     
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  20. Doubles

    Doubles BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Damn, I don't wish that crap on anybody...feel bad for those of you suffering
     
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  21. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Since I have been on allopurinol daily....no attacks. Fingers crossed emoji....
    Strongly recommend.

    A primal / paleo diet means I would need to get a divorce and lose half of my stuff.....
    So not an option.
     
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  22. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Guide

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    I feel for you,friend.I don't have cataracts,but my vision isn't nearly what it used to be,being 62.I have an issue with my left leg which I'm going to a pain management doctor for,and he prescribed Voltaren,a numbing gel that temporarily helps,plus shots in my back,and Norco.All are only temporary relief.It started in October and I'm wondering if the cold weather coming has anything to do with it.It's in the bone surrounding my knee,mostly on the inside area.I like getting out in the bush,and spending the night,hopefully snowshoeing throughout the season,and am a bit grieved about my disability getting in the way.
     
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  23. Badenoch

    Badenoch Tinder Gatherer

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    Oh boy, the illness of kings. Is that because its a royal pain in the...
    Gout is NOT a desease rather it is a condition that those who suffer from the affliction are born with and will always have. Those afflicted process uric acid differently from the foods we eat than other folk do who do not have gout and almost every single one of us has or will have various other types of arthritus as well. There is no known cure for gout. So we gout folk try to control / prevent the joint flare ups that come along with the ailment.

    Theres two approaches to gout. The preventative and the symptomatic. Gout is the condition and flare ups of extrememly swollen joints are the symptoms. Cherry juice and or cranberry juice stimulate the adrenal glands atop the kidneys and are an excellent preventative. But once a flare up occurs those juices can be inaffective in reducing the actual flare up swelling. Keep drinking them but now that the uric acid level has increased to flare up stage we need to get that acid out.
    Water, lots and lots of water. The more you drink the more you urinate. The more you urinate the more accumulated uric acid leaves the body.
    As a routine natural preventative to be taken daily so as to try and avoid flare ups, a gallon or so of drinking water and this works well for me:
    Mint leaf
    Thyme oil
    Citrin
    Orange juice powder
    This is commercialy available in capsule form at the vitamin store in a product called
    "Goutrol".
    During flare up bouts to take the fire out of the toe I add a little fire back in and smear some Red Hot brand hot sauce on it. Now use Red Hot rather than Tobasco or Louisiana because Red Hot uses only Cayenne Pepper. The cayenne will help draw the uric acid out of the joint. You have to be cautious here because during a full blown flare up the toe skin can be so taut that it can crack and the Pepper sauce can irritate.
    Some folks love ice packs, for me i use a heating pad.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  24. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Well we were talking about gout and cataracts here a couple of week ago....I wish we hadn't....LOL
    Had my eye appointment last week and will have eye surgery right after the first of the year.....
    AND
    Gout kicked up Tuesday....not so bad this morning....so hope I caught it in time so as to not have a full blown attack.
    I guess when packed up my meds box for the week I forgot the allopurinol.....didn't think it was that critical to miss a day or two...?

    Bad part about gout is there doesn't seem to e any one "cause".....???????
    All the magic cures, avoidances, and old wives potions do seem to help.....or do they.....Can't hurt right?\

    Badenoch......I feel your pain...literally ...
    If you are not on the allopurinol....ask your DR.
    Hope that goes down for you......
     
  25. Crusher0032

    Crusher0032 Scout

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    Funny how so mant of us have similar problems.

    My father is going in for his first cataract surgery tomorrow, second one in a couple weeks. He and I always seem to have gout problems around this time of year. My foot has been bothering me so I've been sucking down the cherry stuff trying to keep my 2 year no flare streak going. Dad gets it in his elbows which looks awful especially since he already has bursitis. At least I can whittle or sharpen tools if I get a flare. @Badenoch I hope you get that flare knocked down, looks rough.
     
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  26. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    You say your father has bursitis and gets gout?....
    MF had gout as well,

    I really believe gout goes to what ever hurts.....and....makes it worst.
    If I stub my toe...will almost guarantee it will go there the remind me about it.
     
  27. Crusher0032

    Crusher0032 Scout

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    Yup, mining coal for over 30 years hasn't left him in the best shape. He's a tough old bird though
     
  28. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Uric acid is in every food group, less so in veggies. Generally gout can be avoided through moderation of foods. People generally have a very poor understanding of portion sizes and too often over eat on proteins and carbs. Seafoods, red meat, breads, beer, wine, & other fermented beverages. The body can only process so much uric acid at a time. Avoiding uric acid rich foods, eating portion controlled servings, maintaining a health body weight, regular vigorous exercise, and lots of water (2-3) liters a day. Beyond that, symptoms can be managed with OTC antiinflammatories or sometimes prescriptions. Unfortunately no cure for cataracts other than surgery. Again, prevention is best.
     
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  29. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Ever had Gout?
     
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  30. Togus

    Togus Supporter Supporter

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    Yes. My left knee. After a New Years night of celebration with lots of rich foods and beer. The next day it flared up. First it manifested with pruritic rash (itchy reddened skin). Upon examination I could see it was reddened and swollen. Somewhat stiff but no pain with regular use. Took about a week to diminish. No issues since. Got plenty of other issues though. I'm a nurse, so it was pretty easy to self diagnose.
     
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  31. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    If you have been bothered by it for any length of time.....Then you will discover that no one is alike. ....I have never had an attack of gout with out pain.....

    The is no "cure" ...just triggers to be avoided.
    You comments of methods of prevention are excellent, works for some, some not so much.
    As long as it works for you....you are very fortunate .

    Fact is even my Doctors can not agree other than the allopurinol seems to control it .....for me.
    Dealing with this since diagnosed in 1992 have tried, avoided, took monthly blood test for uric acid...even avoiding stress......nothing has cured it...just attempting to control it.
    The biggest help is all of the above.....and moderation.
     
  32. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter

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    I had my first attack about 10 years ago, was travelling a lot for work, eating out every night, day etc, lots of alchohol, poor sleep, not enough water etc. Had dinner with a manager and ordered salmon with asparagus, triggered...
    Went on allopurinol for about 3 years. I hate taking meds daily, would rather try to address the core problem.
    So I started researching, and more researching, as did my wife.
    We noted the trigger foods, the dietary practices that were intrinsically unhealthy and more so in a person with gout, all of which have been mentioned.
    So, I slowed down the drinking, avoided the triggers/purine heavy foods and stopped the meds. No troube for about 2 years, the I got a new job, much more physical, and to be honest I had slipped up on my dietary stuff... I dropped maybe 15 or 20 pounds and had a massive flare up. Turns out the uric acid is deposited in fatty tissue if the body can't process it in a timely manner.
    So, went back to the doc, he gave me more allopurinol, endomethacin, vicoden, predispose etc.
    Got the flare up under control, took the allopurinol for about 6 months and stopped again.
    At this point I am about 1 or 2 years without a flare up. I look at it as my bodies way to tell me to course correct... lol!
    Next challenge is blood pressure...
     
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  33. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    This thread may have been a premonition as I haven't had an attack for about a year...but shortly after my last post....reared up again.

    Diet is heart healthy, and due to DW borderline diabetes...more so...yet is flared up in the right big toe.....
    Taking meds and staying off of it......was going down, but was trying to power through the last of the program cardio therapy...and aggravated it.

    Such is life....wasting all the "no beer" time....LOL
     
  34. gargoyle

    gargoyle Scout

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    I have gout.
    I went to the doc for a few back pain visits and also complained about my big toe hurting, burning. He told me for a few years it was an ingrown hair, a stubbed toe, etc etc. All the while prescribing me $$ in meds for pain.
    I finally called BS on his advice and did my own research. Found out it was gout.

    Medication is what triggers my gout. Almost any med,. over the counter or prescribed, does a number on me...including the anti-inflammatory giants like Tylenol, Ibu, and others. (which I was eating like candy for the back pain)

    I did a self-check to see what other foods bothered me. Pretty much whats already been said in this thread. I was eating garbage and my body was trying to say "STOP"!!

    Eat right. You know what you eat. Your body is a temple. Treat it right and it will reward you.

    NO meat.
    NO alcohol.
    NO processed foods. NO fast food.
    NO salt
    Avoid meds. They raise the acid levels in your body.

    I went full out vegan and in a month felt better. In two months, I had lost 30 lbs. My energy soared. My pain was nearly gone with only a twinge in my toe now and again. I continued with the vegan diet for 90 days. Slowly added a meal or two with meat and noticed immediate pain.

    The diet works. Its up to you when you decide to control your pain.

    I have since stopped the diet. I'm off the meds. And accept my pain. Its only a toe.
    Bacon. 'nuf said.
     
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  35. Blaker55

    Blaker55 Tracker

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    So was reviewing this thread a while back and was also having trouble again with what I assume is gout acting up again. I had no issues throughout the summer and early fall, then it set in again periodically.

    I started thinking about diet changes and realized that I was putting an effort into pounding the water and iced tea this summer and had slacked off come sometime around October. So, around Christmas I started putting an effort back into water again. And I backed off the coffee I love and switched to hot tea. I might have a cup or two of coffee a week now. But mostly tea, water and cranberry juice.

    Not trying to claim any sort of magic bullet here and it's only just over a month, but have not had an issue since then. I'm assuming I just need the "flushing" that the extra water gives.
     
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  36. Ol Grizz

    Ol Grizz Scout

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    @Riverpirate , never had gout so can give no advice on that score.

    I developed cataracts in my late 40's. Had removal surgery done on both eyes. Was the best surgery I have ever had. The difference was profound. I was very fortunate that my primary doc referred me to a true optical surgical artist. Zero bedside manner but a fantastic surgeon. I wish you all the best as you seek treatment for both conditions.
     
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  37. Taffy

    Taffy Tinder Gatherer

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    I had gout for a few years in both feet at one time, doctor gave me allopurinol had an allergic reaction, gave me new tablets that had just come out called febuxostat worked very well. thought I would try and wean myself off them a couple of months ago but could feel it coming back so back on them, have to have a blood test every year though to check on kidney function, I have cut out a lot of purine rich foods to so that probably helps as well. Don't put up with it get medical help ASAP as it's less painful in the long run.
     
  38. Bob_Spr

    Bob_Spr Scout

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    Isn't science wonderful. Woke up on Jan 6, with a bonfire in my right big toe, my foot swollen like a basketball, hot to touch and red as a lobster. Not the first time so knew it was gout. Went to the doctor and because I am allergic to Allopurinol, was prescribed Colchicine. Which 1) wasn't covered by my insurance and 2) works to flush the excess Uric acid by giving you diarrhea. Yes, folks, your foot hurts so bad at the thought of a sheet touching it, much less walking and you have the runs. It's been an adventure. Still having pain tweaks even now.

    Make the changes necessary. For me it is to limit pork intake to once a week.

    Bob
     
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  39. slysir

    slysir Scout

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    It's thread's like this that make me thankful for having good health...even though I often abuse myself. I'm in my late 60's and never even considered gout. Knock on wood!!

    But as far as "cataracts"...I know I'll never have a problem because...


    I only drive "Rinkins"!!

    -John
     
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  40. Panzer

    Panzer Prepared Wanderer Supporter Bushclass I

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    Go to your doctor and have some labs done. Your liver is not working properly and all the home remedies in the world wont change it. But a daily dose of
    Allopurinol will. Then you wont have to worry about every little thing you eat. Everyone is different on what are triggers. So the daily pill is the best thing to do. It's a cheap drug.
     
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  41. dub

    dub Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    The Rich man's disease. I still haven't seen any money from it... I went from Allopurinol to Uloric and still got flares every 2-3 months. +1 on the black cherry stuff. I got them mostly in my ankle but the last one was in my knee and it was excruciating. I decided after that I was going to change my diet. I've been off the meds for a little over two years and I've only had one flare. (My fault, fell off the wagon and was drinking soda and eating bad). I will say identifying what triggers it and avoiding those things like the plague as well as eating healthier are what worked for me.
     
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  42. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Since thread has started....the gout has been off and on from mild to OMG....bigAZZ purple blister on right toe.

    Also had the cataracts taken care of.... in both eyes .. ....was going fast.
    Now I can see the gout in my toes better....

    Driving at night, blurry vision ..light were just starbursts.....was going fast.
    At least that 100 percent better.
     
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  43. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter

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    Well, 3 years give or take without an attack and I am back in pain. Looks to be in my right foot this time around, hurts like hell, going to see the doc today hopefully.
    I know what brought this on, if it is indeed what I think it is. I have been stressed out about my wife's health, my job, etc, been drinking more, eating worse, sleeping worse, and not hydrating as well as I typically would (32 ounces of water in 14 hours vs 96).
    I will update today after I play with the doctors...
    Adam G
     
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  44. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Hang in there,... Bro.....
     
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  45. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter

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    Went to the doctor earlier today, all good, vicoden and predisone.
    I had an interesting conversation with my doctor though.
    He Said that I could either take the alopurinol on a daily basis and deal with the side effects or I could not take it, control my gout as I have been and deal with out breaks as they happen.
    Basically he said that the allopurinol has side effects, the gout can cause stress to your heart, liver and joints when an outbreak occurs, and that 50% of doctors would say take the allopurinol, 50% say just treat the infrequent outbreaks, and that I should figure it out... my doc and I treat each other like adults, it's neat.
    So, given that I haven't had an attack for 3 or 4 years, and that I kow what caused this attack, stress, increased alchohol consumption and not hydrating enough, I think I will continue to manage without a daily dose of allopurinol.
    I don't recomend this approach for anyone else, obviously I am not a doctor, and my conclusions are entirely likely to be screwed.
    Adam G
     
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  46. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Went thru the same thing.....You will need to make that decision.

    Was just using the allopurinol (big dosage don't remember what) on the "as needed" basis.....was hard on the stomach......requiring frequent blood tests.
    No insurance so at $800 a month....I kinda stopped...

    That worked for a while....but I had to "catch it" at the first sign of an outbreak......
    If I didn't catch it... I was in for a rough time, although I believe it did help shorten up the attack.

    The was another prescription I was a taking at the time (don't remember what) as well but conflicted with the heart meds.

    And as I am getting blood work on a regular basis with SSMed no...I have optied for the lower daily dose.....and has dome fairly well...
    Hadn't had an attack in over a year....but we started talking about it ..here....bingo had a bout a 2 weeker over New Years.....
    Yeah I know, rich foods, red meat ,nuts, candy, shrimp cocktail, Christmas/New years alcohol...I did have a chance.....

    So has been under control lately... side effects are not rearing up, it doesn't seem like, and latest regular blood work, has been OK.

    I still thank everyone for the home remedies....I'm sure they help me some...maybe more for others...
    But..Gout will not be controlled "for me" with cherries/other home remedies.

    Every one is different, hereditary (biggie), body chemistry, and life style.
    You need to try to find what works for you.

    Like I said...Hang in there.... let us know how it goes.
     
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  47. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter

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    Will do, thanks!
     
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