Hammock VS. Tent Camping Weight Shootout....

Discussion in 'Backpacking' started by WILL, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I've heard some folks say that hammocking is heavier and some that it's lighter than tent camping. I recently did a weight comparison to get a handle on the truth. I tried to pick items I own or have owned and camped with, and consider compatible in cost and weight category. I realize weight could be shaved on either option by selecting lighter, more expensive gear and/or sacrificing a bit of comfort.

    Tent camping-

    Marmot Lithium 0 degree bag long - 45 ounces
    Thermarest Neoair Xtherm pad long - 20 ounces
    Big Agnes Fly Creek HV UL 2 Tent - 37 ounces

    Total- 102 ounces

    Hammocking-

    Warbonnet Wookie XL 0 degree under-quilt - 25 ounces
    Hammock Gear Burrow 0 degree top quilt - 25 ounces
    Warbonnet superfly with rigging - 25 ounces
    Warbonnet Blackbird XLC hammock - 28.5 ounces
    2QzQ underquilt protector - 5 ounces

    Total- 108.5

    In this example, hammocking turned out to be 6.5 ounces heavier for a winter set-up. Long story short, looks like the weight difference of either system can be negligible.
     
  2. martin9700

    martin9700 Tracker

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    Yah, every config I’ve ever tried has hammocking slightly higher, all things considered. Certainly more work to get set up.

    But I have trouble ground sleeping so going to try a hammock for a bit of weight hit.
     
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  3. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    Me too. I have a bad back, so it was hammocking or nothing. That, and I've had multiple inflatable sleeping pads fail on me when deep into the wilderness. I can't put into words how much that sucks. I was surprised to find there wasn't much of a weigh penalty for hammocking.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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  4. DuctTape

    DuctTape Scout

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    It always depends on the system employed. There are some tenting systems which are lighter than a hammock system, and some hammock systems which are lighter than tenting. We are not comparing two specific items, but a wide range of possibilities on both sides.
     
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  5. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    I came to the same determination.

    Also, I just like to be able to move around and a tent having a “floor” underneath makes this a lot more possible.
     
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  6. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I'm not sure, but I suspect the lightest tent or tarp with ground cloth will always be lighter than the lightest hammock + tarp set-up.

    The lightest top & bottom quilt will always be heavier than the lightest sleeping bag of the same temperature rating.

    The hammock set-up doesn't need a sleeping pad, so that will always be the weight equalizer between the two systems. I'm guessing here.
     
  7. Panzer

    Panzer Prepared Wanderer Supporter Bushclass I

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    It depends. Hammock camping in summer is much lighter then tent camping, but winter it's as heavy if not heavier. Summer you don't need much just a hammock and a tarp.
     
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  8. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Tent camping can be lighter when comparing apples to apples. For example when comparing a hammock without a bug net you will have to compare it to a tarp or floorless shelter with a Dyneema or polypropylene ground cloth.

    Right now you can get a 20° system with all the bells and whistles as follows

    Tent with bathtub floor and bug netting 14oz

    Sleeping pad insulated full length 9 oz you can go lighter here if desired

    Top Quilt 18 oz

    That's a grand total of just over 2.5 lbs for a 3 season system. This is excluding stakes however. I went with 20° since that seems to be the gold standard.

    My personal setup is as follows

    Tent: 3F UL Gear Lanshan 1, 28.3 oz

    Pad: Neoair Venture WV, 21.8 oz (will be replaced with a Xlite in the near future, not the lightest but not bad at 12oz)

    Quilt: Enlightened Equipment Enigma 20 Regular Wide, 19.6 oz (in route)

    That's 69.7 oz for now, and down to 59.9 oz once I upgrade my pad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  9. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I've heard folks say that. I'm a cold sleeper so any temps below 70 degrees and I need insulation under my hammock. So I guess that issue depends on the person.
     
  10. xrayit

    xrayit Guide

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    Depends on season and hammock build, my winter hammock without quilts or a tarp weighs more than my MSR Hubba NX by approximately a pound. The hammock is a fortress being overbuilt and will support 700 pounds ... I don’t use a hammock to save weight in my pack I typically will use a hammock when hiking or camping with others that enjoy hammock camping. Cost wise I have found very little difference in cost between a hammock set up and a tent set up.

    DangerBird
    Net-Overcover
    Length: 11ft
    Width: 63
    Layers: Double
    Outside: 2.2oz Hex70-XL Dark Olive
    Inside: 2.2oz Hex70-XL Charcoal Gray
    Overcover: 2.2oz Hex70-XL Dark Olive
    Asym Lay: Right
    Cinch Buckle: Head-Silver Foot-Black
    Tree Straps: 12ft
    UQ Hooks
    Tie Out Hooks
    Extra Zippers: Net-Cover Left Side
    MultiCam: Zipper Hoods
    MultiCam: Zipper Pulls
    MultiCam: Stuff Sack Color
    12-08-2015: Order Placed
    12-27-2015: Changes per Email (2863)

    Final weight = 53.05oz

    2797.JPG
     
  11. FreudianSlip

    FreudianSlip Guide

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    I really enjoy this post! I think about that sometimes with weight. My issue is I need some lighter weight tree straps. I think it boils down to what is more fun at the end of the day. I usually choose hammock.
     
  12. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Outdoor Vitals tried to do a similar comparison recently. I can't say I really get it. I don't think weight or cost are good reasons to consider hammock camping. It would seem comfort and site selection are the primary reasons to choose hammocks over going to the ground. I'm picky about sleep and so I'm still not convinced that hammock camping would be comfortable for me personally. That said I've seen them set up in some interesting places along the trail over the years such as over a 7' tall bolder. I've also noticed that you see far more tents the futher away from roads and parking lots you get so I've always assumed that they were less popular among more serious backpackers. This is probably because they inevitability end up camping in spots not suitable for hammocks. I saw this happen in a video of a 5 day trip recently where two of the backpackers had to go to ground due to the area they ended up camping in for the night.

     
  13. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I always thought serious hikers went with tents because they're lighter, less fussy to set up and more "home like." Another huge issue is that hammocking is sort of a newer fad and tents are established & well vetted. Even for me, with years of summer hammocking under my belt, I have no idea how my particular hammock set-up would fare in a heavy snow storm or 50 MPH winds. Tents have been there and done that. Obviously if you're in the desert or above the tree line, a tent is a no brainer. In the eastern woodlands I've never had too much trouble finding an appropriate hammocking site. I sometimes have to hunt a bit for a site when I go with several other hammockers, and were all trying to find a site to hammock together. It may be easier to find an open bit of field for tenting in those cases.
     
  14. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    That's a good point, I didn't think about that but it makes sense that they are proven. I was more thinking about trails like the CDT and PCT where a hammock just isn't possible in a lot of places. I personally know one person who attempted a SOBO of the AT with a hammock setup so I guess it's possible on that trail.

    For shorter trips or trails like the AT I don't see why it wouldn't be a good option assuming you know that there will be trees suitable to hang on. The weight can be very negligible as well unless you are spending a fair amount of money on UL Gear.
     
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  15. 41magfan

    41magfan Scout

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    In my experience, this sums it up in a nutshell.
     
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  16. Hartlage

    Hartlage Supporter Supporter

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    I switched from tent to hammock in an attempt to go lighter, and by the time I got a comfortable hammock setup for me, I was just about as heavy as a tent setup. I sleep better on the ground (side and stomach sleeper) and just like tent camping better, so I switched back.

    As far as the sleeping pad is concerned, I slept much better in my hammock with one than without, especially an insulated one.

    Having a versatile tarp in a hammock setup was nice though.
     
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  17. Luzster

    Luzster Of course your opinion matters, just not to me... Supporter

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    You also have to consider pack volume. How much room does a winter hammock setup take in your pack as compared to a tent set up?

    When you have to pack the hammock, tarp, straps, under quilt, sleeping bag/blanket, pad (if you use one) how much rolm in your pack does it consume? Comparatively, how much room does a tent setup take up? The tent(s) I use get strapped to the the outside of my pack, the rest goes in the pack. There may only be a small difference in weight but there could he a huge difference in space.
     
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  18. Monkeynono

    Monkeynono Supporter Supporter

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    Also remember that a hammock setup only serves one person. A tent setup can serve multiple people and therefore the weight can be divided.

    I hammock and will never sleep in a tent again. The views I can have will always be better, I don't need flat ground, and when it rains I never get wet unless I failed in setup.
     
  19. Unistat76

    Unistat76 Nerd Supporter Bushclass I

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    Comfort aside (why I'm a hammock guy) lets not fotget price point. I do not buy ultralight equipment or spendy stuff. At my price point (with as much DIY as possible) I believe hammock win out in weight.

    I also believe that if I wanted to spend a lot more, the tents would quickly become better performers. If I did something like a cuben fiber tent, there would be no question.
     
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  20. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    Pack volume is a good question. I'd agree that a tent takes up less pack volume than a hammock and fly.
    A sleeping bag takes up less space than a top & bottom quilt.
    IMHO, the equalizer is the sleeping pad, which is unnecessary for the hammocker with an under-quilt. This is especially true for tenters who use a closed cell pad.

    @Unistat76, they make hammock tarps in cuben fiber. You're right though, I have no idea how hammock tarps perform in really foul weather. My guess would be that if you pitch it low & tight enough, probably the same as any non-free standing tent. I doubt they match the performance of a true 4 season tent. I'm not aware of anyone who makes a free standing cuben fiber tent.

    I camp the same as I like to motorcycle. I'm not sharing unless you're my wife, and they make two person hammocks for that. I did tent when I had kids.
     
  21. Young Blacksmith

    Young Blacksmith Supporter Supporter

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    I did a similar comparison between tents and tarps, and here's my numbers for what I had on hand and used last spring:

    Tent - 46 oz

    Vs

    Tarp - 44 oz
    bugnet - 20 oz
    Ridge line - 12 oz
    ground cloth - 10 oz

    Now, I realize I could do a lighter ridge line, a much lighter tarp, and come in closer. But at 46 oz for a small tent, complete with supports, bug net, and rain fly, it's ultimately hard to beat the light tents. I prefer a tarp though for air circulation and room, it's about double what the tent has. I use the same stakes for both tarp and tent, so no difference there.
     
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  22. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    Brings up a couple of interesting questions. Since I don't know the hammock market, what kinda weights are we really talking for an UL hammock rig assuming minimum of rain fly and mosquito protection? Can you get down to 1.5lbs incl. stakes and straps for a nylon rig? And also, why wouldn't the hammock market have the same high dollar cuben fiber options as the tent market? You can certain get the fly in cuben, but is it just not strong enough for the weight bearing hammock portion? I wouldn't buy cuben either, but just wonder how light hammocks can get - for tents, ~1lb for CF, and I'm running ~1.5lbs for double-wall nylon mid (~$200).

    I like the idea of hammocks, in the densely forested and hilly northeast I think it's easier to find well spaced trees than flat ground. I have a Hennessey UL Asym, and have tried it a few times many years ago, but couldn't get comfortable due to noob mistakes, and just weirdness. I realize it takes a lot more to tune a hammock to your preferences, but ultimately, I couldn't get over the idea leaving the rest of my gear/backpack 'outside' where it's less protected from windblown rain, rodents, and even people when required to use designated campsites (eg AT thru NY,CT, MA). Also how would you boil/cook in windblown rain? The full sized 'doored' hammock tarps that can pitch to the ground would solve those problems, but dang they're huge and heavy.
     
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  23. ColterCarsonAshley

    ColterCarsonAshley Tracker

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    That is the main difference I have found.
    My backpacking tent is small and can fit two without gear. A inflatable pad and sleeping bag all pack smaller than the the hammock and straps, synthetic under quilt, synthetic sleeping bag as top quilt, 12x12 tarp of my current system. However the tarp allows for so much more room. We hang two hammocks side by side separated by walking sticks and the 100+ great pyrenees can stay dry under the tarp. There is no way he fits in that tent with us.
     
  24. Monkeynono

    Monkeynono Supporter Supporter

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    They definitely make CF tarps for hammocks, big ones with doors, or small asyms. They also make UL quilts (900 or 950 fill) and UL hammocks (lower weight limit) Lightweight cost money, for a hammocks =versatility and comfort. @RiceOnSuede what's your rig weight for summer?
     
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  25. DuctTape

    DuctTape Scout

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    Hammock vs Tent, take the right tool for the job. I have used a hammock for 95% of my trips in the last 15 years; all seasons. Only time I didn't was for a trip to the Wind Rivers in Wyoming and for a trip to the N. Shore of Lake Superior, as I was not sure of campsites. I could have used my hammock for both with no problem.
     
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  26. curtiseddie

    curtiseddie Scout

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    Three years ago I tried sleeping in a hammock as a novelty. It was the most uncomfortable sleep I had in a hammock. However, it was not worse than night in a tent. I decided to give it another chance. Since then my experience and gear has improved. I obviously adjust my kit depending on conditions and I could go lighter on certain pieces of gear, but my main mantra with backpacking is I go as light as possible without sacrificing comfort. Others my have better/lighter weight tent set-ups than I had, but my hammock set-up did lessen my pack weight slightly (approx 10-12oz.). If all I was worried about was weight, I would pack sleeping gear like John Zahorian. I've watched some of his thru-hiking videos where he literally wraps himself in a plastic sheet and sleeps on the ground (sometimes in a thunderstorm). Very often he looks miserable. No, thank you.

    As for pack volume, my tent always went inside my pack. I prefer to have as much gear inside my pack. I don't like things hanging off my pack to get abraised or poked by sticks.

    Set-up
    tarp: 13.7oz
    hammock: 10.2oz
    suspension(tarp&hammock): 9.5oz
    top quilt/under quilt: 44oz
    total = 4.8lb

    But as with anything, it is HYOH/YMMV. I love my hammock!
     
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  27. beacon

    beacon Simul justus et peccator Bushclass I

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    I've found my hammock setup to be comparable to my prior tent setups (assuming it's just me). Even if the hammock setup comes out heavier, the increased comfort and ease of setup/tear-down makes it the winner in my book. It also serves as a comfortable chair in camp when I'm not sleeping. If I end up in a situation where there are no suitable trees, I still have the option of setting up a tarp shelter with the hammock as an improvised ground cloth/bivy.

    Now, I'll have to go weigh my hammock setup...
     
  28. 41magfan

    41magfan Scout

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    I'll borrow the legal term "original intent" to make the following point;

    The farther you stray from the original need and application of the hammock (historically), the less they make sense and the more inefficient (weight wise) they become. The same can be said for the bivy sack since 99.9% of the folks using them are doing so in conditions for which they were never designed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
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  29. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    we had a gent this year at the Bob Open that used a hammock setup- I don't think his setup was too much heavier than mine; the thing that has kept from seriously looking at a hammock is I frequently camp above treeline- thinking that might make things a wee bit tough :4:
     
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  30. Primordial

    Primordial MOA #40 Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I never use an under quilt and my hanging "straps" are made from knotted rope. My hammock is pretty light weight and so is my tarp. I know my hammock setup is a lot less bulky than my smallest tent and it's far lighter too. By keeping my tarp in an external pouch attached to my pack saves me room in my pack for other gear because the hammock, straps are a pretty small package. The bug net is the bulkiest part of my set up but even that isn't too big and I only need it in the summer.

    Down sides are set up time but the advantage for me is I can set camp nearly anywhere I want to because I have literally millions and millions of trees in my area and don't have to worry about rocky, root filled or uneven ground.
     
  31. Paul Ashton

    Paul Ashton Tinder Gatherer

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    Sgt Rock comes up with 11 oz shelter + 11 oz hammock, + 32 oz summer sleep system, ALmost all home made . Difficult to match that at any price.
    http://hikinghq.net/packing_list.html
    IMO an exceptional site, you can learn a lot there.
     
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  32. reppans

    reppans Scout

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    Thanks for linking an UL hammock sample... finally have at least one UL hammock benchmark in this thread.

    Note that his sleep system should be -8oz to 24oz as he included his pack system, and the hammock system should be +2oz to 13oz as his bugnet is included elsewhere. Also like his 50F cut-off for 'summer' as that's about right for me in the NE Appalachians.

    Current version of my ground dwelling rig is about the same weight as Sgt Rock (and arguably lighter considering the multi-tasking) and I only consider myself a 'comfort' ULer. Mt. Warden is a true ULer that could knock a huge chunk of weight off my best, and a cuben single wall could cut an easy 8oz too.
    - SMD Gatewood Cape 10oz, Serenity NetTent 11oz, Polycryo footprint and 6 Ti stakes 3oz =24oz
    - JRB Sierra Stealth 17oz (same quilt as Sgt, except poncho capability) and Neoair Xlite 8oz = 25oz

    Putting aside the ground-vs-hang personal comfort differences, I really love this shelter's bug protection options - pryamids can be set-up/taken-down in ~minute and so is often worthy for lunch and rest breaks when all the flying B'stards catch up to you. IME, the fly alone is like having a 90+% bug deterrent/self-bailer (playing on flying bugs own survival instincts) and there is no need to remove boots, or zip though doors. Or in really horrendous bug conditions, just set-up the inner net tent (also ~1min) for 100% protection. Perhaps it's just me, but I don't like using chemicals, or wearing extra clothing & headnets in the heat, if I don't have to.
     
  33. xrayit

    xrayit Guide

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    Gatewood cape and serenity net is a great under appreciated combo for a single shelter option.
     
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  34. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    If we are talking summer gear a very comfortable but also super light set-up would be as follows.

    Enlightened Equipment Enigma 40° - 13.28oz

    Thermarest Neoair Uberlight pad R value 2 - 8.8oz

    ZPacks Plexamid Tent - 14.8oz

    Total weight 36.88oz

    As you can see it's possible to get quite a bit lighter while maintaining things like a full length 2.5" thick pad, bathtub floor, bug netting, vestibule, extra space in your shelter.
     
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  35. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    OK, lightest hammock set-up I can come up with-

    Hummingbird single+ 7.6 oz
    polyester tree straps, amsteel blue + dutchware 4 oz
    Hammock Gear dynema hex tarp 5.4 oz
    Stakes + rigging 3 oz
    Enlightened Equipment 40 degree 950 top quilt 11.55 oz
    Thermarest Neoair Uberlight pad R value 2 8.8oz

    Total weight- 40.35


    @MJGEGB, Zpacks says 10 stakes are needed to pitch their tent, but aren't included. Probably adds two ounces.
     
  36. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    1.9oz for 10, at least 4 of which are optional

    Add that to the system and you get 37.78oz upgrade to the 950 FP quilt as you did and you go down to 37.05 without sacrificing a bug net. Going with a tarp and ground sheet to make all things even and you'd likely lose at least a couple of ounces more.

    Like I said I don't think weight is a good reason to go with a tarp. Comfort seems to be the reason I see quoted most often.
     
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  37. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I agree with ya. Seems like hammock and tent camping are within a few ounces of each other weight wise, with the hammock set-up losing the weight war. Like you said, for what I lose in hiking comfort, I make up 10 fold in sleeping comfort, so well worth the few ounces of weight penalty.
     
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  38. HeadyBrew

    HeadyBrew Supporter Supporter

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    Exactly this. The following is just my opinion based on my own experiences and personal preferences.

    In summer I have my down bag, my hammock (a very light Grand Trunk UL) and my tarp (sil nylon 10x10 for years, only recently a cuben tarp) . That’s it. I literally just spent 5 days using nothing but those three items (not including the rigging which is mostly Dyneema cordage and tree straps). With the exception of the most expensive, minimalist designs, I think you’d be hard pressed to find even a 1-man backpacking tent that can beat that, especially since the sleeping bag really isn’t in the comparison since it would also be used in a tent.

    No bug nets for me either. I realize there are areas of the country that it would be a must but I’ve literally never wished I’d had one.

    Also you don’t need an UQ in summer. No one will convince me otherwise except in rare circumstances such as camp at high altitudes with colder than normal nights. I know a lot of guys like and use them but they aren’t necessary. I have one but it only sees use in late fall, winter and early spring. A good inflatable pad will do fine otherwise or a stiff foam pad. Or not even that. As I said, I just finished a trip where I never used my pad, just my sleeping bag in my hammock.

    Now if we’re talking about winter camping then that’s another story and backpacking tents are probably a good deal lighter than everything you need to stay warm in a hammock below freezing.

    Ive said this multiple times in the past for different reasons but I firmly believe some people make hammock camping far more complicated and thus heavy/bulky than it needs to be. Like anything, gear is fun and exciting and hammocking is no different. You can get all sorts of goodies and bling that serve one particular purpose. But the truth is that it’s great marketing and cool but very few of it is truly necessary. This is just my personal opinion and preference based on my experience.
     
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  39. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Couldn't agree more, a good night's sleep is well worth a small weight penalty. I could go lighter, but as a full time side sleeper I like my full length air mattress. It works for me, well worth the time and weight. I'll get around to trying a hammock one of these days.
     
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  40. Snipen

    Snipen Tracker

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    My hammock setup that I use for three seasons comes in right around 4.5 lb. And that takes me down to about 25 degrees. With where I am located I find The Hammocks much more comfortable and a lot easier to find places to set it up
     
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  41. Chorazin

    Chorazin Tinder Gatherer

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    Mine will take me down to about 20, and it's about the same weight if it's gonna be that cold. The warmer it gets the lighter it gets, which at some point the tent just says at a minimum weight (that being the tent and pad) whereas if they days and nights are warm and dry, I could really just go down to my 2lb hammock with net and suspension system and call it good.

    EDIT: I've put more money into my hammock system since I sleep like crap on the ground, just my tent and pad combo is close to 6lbs.
     
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  42. ROCK6

    ROCK6 Scout

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    For hammocks, this is always subjective. For me, once I go under 50-degrees, I need an under-quilt. I always use a second of Z-Rest sleeping pad, but for summer (50-degrees and up), a tent won't come close to my hammock setup.

    Dutchware Halfwit/whoopie+tree straps: 17oz
    Hammock Gear dyneema fly with suspension/guy-lines and four stakes: 8.5oz
    Z-rest (section): 6.0oz
    Dri-down quilt (50 degree comfort rating): 14oz or my JRB Sierra Stealth (with 2 extra ounces of down, for a 40-degree comfort rating): 17.5oz

    Total is about 45.5oz for summer temps down to 50-degrees, and I can hang on terrain that won't work with a tent; but can still set up my hammock/fly above the tree line, on the ground like a bivy bag (using my trekking poles for structure). Above freezing, I simply prefer a hammock...they're much more comfortable for me.

    For temps below 50 (down to freezing), I would add my JRB under-quilt: 16.5oz

    I could easily drop another half pound with a lighter hammock. My opinion where tent-weight starts to turn to an advantage is when temps get below freezing. Hanging in cold weather adds not only more weight, but more bulk. I currently use a 27oz Tarptent Notch, but plan to upgrade to the Notch Li which is 19.9oz.

    ROCK6
     
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  43. DuctTape

    DuctTape Scout

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    next we will have the fly fishing vs spin casting weight comparison?
     
  44. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    Tenkara for the win :4:
     
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  45. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I wouldn't mind a back-pack fishing kit weight shootout. I know some eyes glaze over when I start gram counting, but as a back-packer this stuff is very important to me.
     
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  46. DuctTape

    DuctTape Scout

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    My point is they are two different styles of fishing. The target species, and fishing environment are both more important than weight. Same is true for hammock v ground. Take the right tools for the job.
     
  47. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    I hear what you're saying. If I didn't have a bad back, I'd be a ground sleeper to save weight. I'm sure there's a lot of camping styles and reasons why, but for many, weight is king.
     
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  48. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    I'm waiting for a very cheap telescopic rod to try Tenkara style fishing for this exact reason. The guy from backcountry banter took a Tenkara setup on his PCT through hike, 3oz total. That's pretty light for a fishing setup. If I like it I'll upgrade to something nicer. Used to do a lot of fishing once upon a time.
     
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  49. WILL

    WILL Guide

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    Man I would love to put together a 3 ounce fishing rod. You got a link brother?
     
  50. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    No, 3oz for everything rod, line, and lures



    Seems perfect for sticking in a pack and fishing mountain streams in the areas we hike (I'm sure the AT is similar in your area). That's what they were made for acter all. Lots of folks on here who know way more about Tenkara than I do. I ordered a rod for $2.46 to try, only problem is it's taking forever to get here.
     
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