Hornady 30 30 levereveation shooting high

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by David Wittkowski, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. David Wittkowski

    David Wittkowski Tracker

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    Has anyone have experience at Hornady 30 30 levereveation ammo shooting about 5 inches high at 100 yards?
     
  2. Oldguy59

    Oldguy59 Roughian #5 Supporter

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    Compared to what? I would expect the lighter faster bullet to print higher it will have a lot less drop than the old 170gr. Flat point. Different ammo different POI. To be expected.
     
  3. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    I couldn't get it to group worth a damn. Never bought another box.
     
  4. PAcanis

    PAcanis Supporter Supporter

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    I've never heard of this ammo.
    I use Fusion. It groups the best for me.
     
  5. Mikem

    Mikem Scout

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    Yes. Normally 4” high and 3-4” off windage, in a Marlin 35 Rem at 100y compared to factory Rem 200gr core lok. Same with 45/70 compared to factory Rem Ammo.
     
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  6. tch1718a

    tch1718a Scout

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    IIRC, that bullet weight splits the difference between the 150 & 170 common weights in 30\30.

    In my marlin it grouped a little higher than my normal 150's, by a couple inches. It was acceptably accurate with groups around 1 1/4 inches, and it did put the deer on the ground.

    The caveat for me though... Shoot a doe at about 25 yards quartering away from me. Placement was as good as it gets, behind the front right leg taking a lung and heart. She starteld then dropped, and as she dropped i saw something coming at me. The bullet had come out of her right hip towards me, struck a tree just a few yards from me. I never figured out how that happened. When cleaning her the path it took in was obvious, and the interior damage to her hip was easy to see. The route through her body cavity from front to rear was best guess but it had done a number on her stomach and other bits.

    It was enough that i went back to my hand loaded 150's. She wasn't any more dead with the hornaday, and you don't have to see that twice to lose confidence in something.

    I'm not saying it's bad ammo by any means, but my marlin sure convinced me not to use it in that rifle.
     
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  7. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Generally I find faster bullets strike target lower as they have less dwell time so less effected by recoil.

    Im betting its barrel harmonics causing shift in POA.

    CW
     
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  8. PAcanis

    PAcanis Supporter Supporter

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    Can someone post a link to this ammo?
    My Googlefu isn't turning up anything.
     
  9. slowtaknow

    slowtaknow Scout

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    Compared to what? It has less drag than most right?
     
  10. csnider

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    Spelling is incorrect. It is Hornady LeverEvolution, and in 30-30 is available in 160 & 140 grain loads.
     
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  11. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    I think he's talking about Hornady Leverevolution ballistic tipped ammo, it was designed to be used in rifles with tubular magazines, made with a soft pointed nylon tip, it's more aerodynamic than the standard flat tip bullets usually used in lever guns, Hornady also uses a lighter bullet and increased the velocity as well making it a bit harder hitting and extending it's effective range to a couple of hundred yards, in theory.
    I've never tried it, it's too rich for my budget, plus I roll my own for better results, but I've heard that some folks love it while others have nothing but bad to say about it.
     
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  12. ozarkhunter

    ozarkhunter Guide Vendor

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    It is called LeverEvolution - https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/30-30-win-160-gr-ftx-leverevolution#!/

    I found it to shoot higher in my dad's .30-.30. That said, when I find a round I like, I don't carry other rounds, so once on target, it really isn't an issue. It's the only thing I shoot out of my .35 Remington. Hogs and deer don't get up from it when I do my job with shot placement. Interesting how we have a bad experience with a round and won't use it again. Mine was the beloved Remington Core Lokt. I shot a small doe with it in .30-.30. The bullet fragmented so bad that pieces of lead and copper were found in numerous cuts of the processed deer. You couldn't pay me enough to use another one. This doe tipped the scales dressed at 70 lbs. Shot her 13 years ago... very memorable, as I was between chemo and radiation treatments. Something about not knowing if you will be around for next season that makes the experience more important that "trophy" status of the animal.
     
  13. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    The bullets are FTX. and yes designed to be pointy and carry a higher BC yet still be safe in tubular magazines. There is a all copper jobber @ 140g and a 160g as csnider already told us.

    I have never used factory but I use allot of them in component form and like that 160 (made for the 30/30) allot! I say that cause there is another one made for the 308 Marlin. Its a different bullet and its cannelure is in a different spot.
    But I use 25’s 30’s, 35’s and 45’s. They are on the fragile side so Not suited for calibers reaching top velocities for caliber. But good bullets.
     
  14. PAcanis

    PAcanis Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks guys.
    My brain must be slowing down. Or I'm just not good at brain teasers, lol.
    Yeah, I've heard of Leverevolution. Didn't group well for me if I recall.
     
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  15. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    Leverevolution ammo seems to work well for some folks and not so much for others, I don't think it's the fault of the ammo as much as it's the ability of the individual firearm to shoot it accurately, problems with accuracy may have a lot to do with the type of rifling and the rate of twist in one's specific rifle.
    Not all rifling is created equal, some ammo that shoots well out of a Winchester mod. 94 may not shoot as well out of a mod. 336 Marlin because of it's different type of rifling, also a barrel rifled to shoot well within certain caliber and weight standards may not be as accurate if the bullet weight is changed dramatically and/or the velocity is increased or decreased dramatically.
    For example, the AR-15 with it's .223 chambering, originally it was designed to shoot a 50~ 55gn. BTSP shaped bullet, and had a 1~12 rifling twist, when the bullet weight was increased into the mid and upper 60's gn. weight the twist was changed to a faster 1~9 and 1~7 to keep consistent accuracy.
     
  16. PAcanis

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    So true.
    I was lucky that I hit upon a good hunting round without having to buy a whole bunch of 30-30. Or worse yet, adding yet another caliber to my reloading bench :11:
     
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  17. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    I think you should hunt with the Krag Dave not the 3030 :)
     
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  18. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    All three of my Model 94's were grouping over 3" at 50 yards. One was pushing 4".
    All three of those guns will shoot right at or under 1" at 50yds with pretty much all other ammo.
    I've seen other guys group well with it though.
     
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  19. bluecow

    bluecow Scout

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    I have been using pointed bullets in my Win. M94 for years without any problems. ONE in the chamber and One in the mag tube. Just how many shots are you planing to lever at that deer anyway?:rolleyes:
     
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  20. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    For years I've been toying with building a custom '94 with stubby mag tube that's fixed to the reciever, only holds one round, a stubby forend, and a free floated barrel.
    I'll call it the Model 94 ultralight :22:
     
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  21. greg_r

    greg_r Tracker

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    ^^^^^this^^^^^
     
  22. Robert Highhawk

    Robert Highhawk Scout

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    That ammo shoots high out of my 45-70 which is sighted in for 300 grain Remington soft point.
     
  23. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

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    I was testing loads in my Win 94 (32 special) today and was reminded that (for me), as charges get heavier, the 94 kicks up for me more.

    There's a pro/con with the 94's stock. It comes to shoulder so nicely but the angle makes it prone to muzzle lift during recoil more so than my other guns. When shooting my 94 off the bench (<- sort of an oxymoron, right?) to test loads, I have to resort to holding down the receiver with my left hand to try to control the muzzle lift. Perhaps others can suggest better techniques for the 94 off the bench. In any event, with my 2 hottest loads, I still got 2 flyers about, you guessed it, about 5" high.

    The boxed Hornady LeverEvolution are loaded really, really hot. I'm playing around with FTX bullets (and having troubles seating them without crushing shoulders even after belling out the neck) and I think the bullets themselves might have some advantages in the 100-150 yd range. But then, I think standard box loadings for lever guns kill deer just fine out to 150 yards anyway. Not sure the FTX bullets are worth it. Still experimenting.

    Regardless of the virtues of the FTX bullet, I've sworn off the LeverEvolution boxed ammo for woods hunting in NewEngland. It might make sense for somebody who might need to make a longer shot in across a meadow out to 200 yds. But that's not me.

    Sorry for the ramble... Bottom line is that I suspect you're seeing muzzle lift during recoil.

    More to the point, I suspect this has more to do with the design of a lever gun's stock and less to do with the ammo, per se. Putting it another way, the LeverEvolution ammo turns the amp up to 11 (1 more than 10, iddn'it?) and in doing so, simply exceeds the speed limit of the stock design.
     
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  24. Riverpirate

    Riverpirate Supporter Supporter

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    I shoot the 44 mags out of my pistol...
     
  25. pipehand

    pipehand Scout

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    What CW said in post #7. A lot of guys will try different brands of ammo and assume the one that prints highest on paper must be better, be ause intuition tells us it should be going faster, and drops less. In reality, the vibrations caused by the detonation of tbe powder etc may cause the bullet to leave the barrel when it is on an "upswing". Search "Dan Newberry" and OCW for an interesting read about tuning to barrel harmonics.
    That being said, I'm not a fan of the Leverevolution rounds. The brass is all short to accomodate the crimping on the longer ogived spitzer gummytips. I only shoot cast in my levers, and appreciate free standard brass left at the range by people who don't reload.
    Edited because of FreeMe's post below-
    The 45-70 brass is way short for sure. I may be wrong about the 30-30. The 45-70 won't even allow a crimp in a standard die.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  26. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    I don't know where you got that idea, but I had to look after reading this. I have both Remington green box factory loads and Leverevolution factory loads sitting here on my counter, and the case lengths are identical. Both are crimped to cannelure as well. The overall length of the Leverevolution is greater, and may not fit some box magazines. Some reloaders might trim cases to compensate for that with some bolt guns - as I did when making spirepoint loads for the little Savage 340 - but it's not a thing in the factory loads. Reloaders who trim cases specifically for short magazines aren't likely to leave their brass on the ground at the range. I know I sure didn't.
     
  27. jackpinesavage

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    Only used it in 45-70. Shot a doe walking straight at me over a small rise at 15 yds. Made a 6 inch hole in the middle of her back and the fragments shredded the tenderloins and half the back straps. Never hunted with it again.
     
  28. PeterCartwright

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    Yes. My Marlin 30AS prints about that much higher than traditional 170 gr. Rem. Corelokts (factory amm0). That particular rifle will also shoot the Hornady "gummy bears" into tiny groups. I've never hunted with the magic ammo, since I don't have any need for the flatter trajectory, but it's nice to have in the tool box.

    PC
     
  29. oldpinecricker

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    One of my old Marlins is erratic with it and it's a no go. My other Marlins like it just fine as do my old 1894 Winchesters from the 30's and 40's vintages.

    Last year I got a large black bear close with the Leverevoltion and it was an easy shot on a extreme steep slope. One shot.

    On deer with cross canyon shots I can easily reach out to 250 yds no problem with the Hornady ammo and I really like it.

    Most of what I hunt is thickly wood conifers on steep slopes and up on ridgeline lines it's more subalpine terrain.
     
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