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How to supplement clothing and sleeping bags in cold weather

Discussion in 'Winter Camping' started by Natch, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I guess this is more of a prep question, but I’m going to be using what I find here for cold weather camping this winter to test it, so I thought it would be alright to ask my question here.

    Unless you have a cart there is only so much you can take in a INCH/BOB. I have a solid Wiggy’s FTRSS bag and a multi layered system for clothes, but northern Utah it can get pretty cold at night in the winter. I feel the need to carry one more item to supplement them just in case.

    Last week I started a thread to find a small emergency blanket/bivy for a kit I’m carrying to work. I like the Escape and the V2, but I’m looking for something more durable for long term/repeated use.

    My clothing system is thermals, light wool Ibex shirt, fleece, and a shell. That will cover me if I’m moving, but anyone who’s sat in a tree stand knows it’s a different story when you stop moving.

    My goal is to find something to carry with me to use as an article of clothing around camp or to keep me warmer while I sleep if it gets extremely cold.

    -Great coat like a heavier puff jacket, Boreal shirt, or Fred G. Asbell?

    -Versatile blanket/poncho liner like Kifaru Woobie or HPG Mountain Serape?

    -Just a wool blanket and cut a hole in the middle my head could go through?

    - Rumpl Blanket?
     
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  2. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Nothing works as well as a proper oversized down insulated parka [ and matching pants ]
    Most folk here would go with something like the Kifaru. I'll never have that sort of spare cash.
    Ex-Army ponchos keep the wind and rain off but in themselves are not warm and My own opinion is that the standard poncho liner only has worth in summer
    These threads always bring out peoples personal biases and I admit to having many of my own.
    I like my old M-65 Fishtail parka, I really like my newish Linebacker parka; but even wearing both together they would not be as warm as a proper Antarctic down parka with the matching wind suit
    I mean how cold do you consider really cold? -40?
    I'm not going out in -40 if I can avoid it
     
  3. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I should have specified that really cold to me is probably around zero degrees. I guess my circulation isn't on par with others, but I get cold sleeping.

    I'm sure there isn't a one size fits all, which is why I'm going to try whatever I get out this winter.
     
  4. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    0F/-18C should be easy enough, in which case a poncho plus a poncho liner with hood and a good down vest, but what about your legs?
    I loose a lot of heat from my legs when I'm sleeping / inactive and the best value there would be a pair of surplus insulated trouser liners for the M-65 pants
    If it is just for sitting in a tree stand and you don't have to carry it far then an old woollen blanket or two as a poncho liner would work for me, also a spare/second hat or even 3 never goes unused when I'm cold.
    LW helmet liner balaclava, heavy Patagonia windstopper balaclava then any of my multitudinous woolly hats over both if I get really cold
    Don't forget spare dry socks too etc
     
  5. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    Let me clarify my OP a bit. Cold weather camping isn't a strong skill of mine, so I'm going to do it more to improve my skills. Some friends who are experienced will be with me and I'm going to try doing it with and without a fire to test the limits of the gear I own.

    Whatever I end up buying will be going with me when I do, but staying in my BOB/INCH bag at home. I tend to get cold when I stop moving and if there is a fire going it's not as much of a problem than if there isn't one. The same is true at night when I sleep, so if I have something extra in my bag to supplement my layers and or my sleeping bag (even if it means going under it for another layer of insulation) I'd to try it out and see if that helps. If it does then it's a permanent part of my preps and if it doesn't I'll try something else.
     
  6. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Gotcha
    Pushing the limits of /supplementing what you already have?
    M-65 pant liners still a good cheap booster, ditto poncho and liner, ditto down vest
    If this is for a get home bag then keeping the weight and bulk down is important so down is the way to go.
    I find cold weather camping more to do with ground insulation and keeping the wind off but I have a huge selection of cold weather gear because I used to climb and I still ski
    If I had to select only one garment from my extended clothing range it would be my big linebacker parka as it layers over everything and i can use it over the foot of my sleeping bag as a shell cover if I need to
    https://store.glennsarmysurplus.com...-extreme-cold-weather-parka--type-2-p389.aspx
    A large in one of these covers my Extra large M-65 Fishtail with room to spare, they are huge
     
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  7. mainewoods

    mainewoods Maine Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Clothing I normal wear in 0 to -20
    A good pair of thermals , fresh clean Wool socks, a beanie and some times a extra heavy top and light wool gloves . To me one of the keys is the pad and the bag both big keys. But clothing too is big comfy, warm, but not to sweat in.
     
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  8. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    Couple thoughts... one group that's always strapped for space in packs are climbers, and they developed a down parka/elephant foot bag system to fill that need. And a guy named Whelen was an advocate of a "good down parka" as an insulating layer due to its packability and warmth.

    As I've aged, I've discovered that individual metabolism makes a huge difference as well. Mine shuts down at night, almost entirely, to the point where the same 35* bag that kept me warm at 27* no longer does so at 45*... and it's not the filling getting compacted... it's a high quality down bag that's as thick today as it was when I bought it.

    @GunGoBoom did a thread on his compact sleep system, and I think @Cro did too... they'll have to chime in with the links though.
     
  9. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Here is mine...http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/compact-sleep-system.179590/

    If I was going to buy something now it would be the HPG Mountain Serape or the Jacks-r-Better Sierra Sniveler. Ideally I would find someone to custom build an insulated poncho for me but people don't seem real interested in trying that out. I asked around quite a bit. The video I linked on the 2nd page is pretty much ideal in my mind.
     
  10. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    The compact sleep system thread was a good one.
     
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  11. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    Sleep closer to the fire. If you're worried about burning up your gear get a wool blanket to throw over your bag to protect from sparks or just use the wool blanket and sleep really close. All fires have that "goldilocks" zone where it's not too hot and not too cold, find that and you're good no matter what gear you do or don't have.
     
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  12. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    One piece of equipment is a contractor's 55 gallon trash bag. Make a poncho out of it and place it over your outerwear. It will keep in the heat and reflect the wind and rain/snow.

    Wear a pair of down booties over wool socks in your sleeping bag. Cold feet will make everything else cold. A good trapper's hat, the ones with fur-lined ear flaps, will keep your head warm, if not hot.

    One thing virtually EVERYONE forgets is calories! Take as much high calorie foods as you can carry. Fatty meats, candy, creamed soups etc. Eat before turning in at night and all throughout the day. This stuff will stoke your body's furnace and keep you warm from the inside out. I particularly like a hot bowl of cream of potato soup with added chunks of ham or sausage before bed. It's easy to digest and warms you up.

    Before bed, DO NOT drink coffee or anything with caffeine. No alcohol, either. It does NOT warm your body. It does just the opposite, despite the common perceptions.

    Steve
     
  13. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    That's one thing I'm trying to find out. I'm not going to be masochistic every time I go this winter, but I think I'll learn more about how much I can trust my gear by pushing it a bit. I know even with a fire I sleep cold, so I'd like to play around with pads under my sleeping bag, trying different clothes, but also adding another piece of versatile gear that could be used in a few different ways.

    If I had a cart I'd take a wool blanket, heavy puff jacket, and a really thick mattress. Using a backpack I'm never going to feel like I'm at the Four Seasons, but I'd like to be some place between there and barely surviving. Slightly comfortable where I can sleep better than waking up every 10 minutes and having those weird repeating dreams about freezing.
     
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  14. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushclass I

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    You can be very comfortable out of a backpack. My neo air x-lite is 3" thick. It feels like any other mattress. The only problem is that lightweight, compressible gear is EXPENSIVE.
     
  15. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Oh and Steve is right on the money about food. It makes a huge difference if you eat a good meal before you lay down. Add a warm non-caffeinated drink and hot water bottle and you can stay toasty warm.
     
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  16. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    If I read your first post correctly the Wiggys bag you already have is the extra big over bag; if so there should be plenty of room inside it to wear as many clothes as you need, I misunderstood that to start, I thought you were referring to the full system of twin bags.
    Boosting a large 50F bag to cope with below freezing conditions is different.
    Also a lot depends on the available cash
    I'm an old climber so I find I still use a half bag plus duvet
    Using the half bag in the link
    http://www.backcountry.com/brooks-r...e1-11e6-b294-0050569406b5&avad=34025_ddd0dd57
    in combination with a down parka will get you to any reasonable cold temperature
    Warm and compact and you will be wearing the parka while static in camp anyway, I wish I could afford that particular half bag for myself
    otherwise any reasonable LW down sleeping bag inside the Wiggys
    You still must have enough mattress tho, double up on the CCF blues pads at a minimum
    Treat the Wiggys bag with Nikwax too, they don't have a good DWR treatment as standard
     
  17. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I've never been a fan of down bags because of their price and not insulating as well as synthetics when they are wet, but I'm open to one. It's never a bad thing to diversify a bit, so I'd have synthetics, wool, and down layers. I know you get what you pay for, but since this will be a supplement and not a primary layer does anyone make an affordable packable down jacket that isn't junk?

    Also, someone in another thread suggested a Rumpl Blanket. Would the Original Rumpl be much warmer or better than my Snugpak Jungle blanket?
     
  18. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Natch it depends how big you are, for XXL fellers like me it does get a bit harder but I recently scored an UL down parka from Uniqlo in 2XL and it is anything but junk and it has become my Go-To sleeping adjunct.
    Getting down wet is mainly down to operator error and hasn't happened to me in over 40 years and with modern treated down it is much less of a problem then in the past. Yes it gets wet but it dries quickly, almost as quickly as synthetics and lets face it a wet bag is a wet bag and should never happen
    Again it is budget related, good down is expensive; VERY expensive, but what we call good down these days was such an esoteric product 30 years ago I never saw any and we were happy with down that had a lofting factor of 500 and we used to call it Superdown.
    Be careful here, very high lofting downs are excellent for sleeping bags but not so good for clothing, my experience is that the best lofting power for clothing is around 650 and the good news is that this down is quite in the affordable range.
    At this fill power and above what takes up the room is the shell fabric but as an adjunct item you only need a LW shell and even stitched through construction [ the affordable option usually] can add a lot of warmth.
    You've had a warm winter over there and it's sale time; shop around, make sure that the fit is loose so there will be room under it to layer a fleece or two as well as your normal wool shirts and underwear
    I'm told that the Cost-Co down jumpers and down throw blankets are the best value around and the Cost-Co down throw is the right size to make a decent half bag from, again you need to state how much money you are willing/can afford to spend. $50- wont get you much $100- will get you something but $200- will buy quite a bit for $500- I could set myself up quite well in US dollars.
    Winter camping is expensive if you want reasonable safety and a reasonably light load
     
  19. teotwaki

    teotwaki Scout

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    ....what the USMC guys and gals call the Happy Suit is warm and is not hurt if it happens to get wet. Officially it is the PCU Level 7 Insulated Jacket and Pants
     
  20. NJHeart2Heart

    NJHeart2Heart Backyard Bushcrafter Supporter

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    Fleece blanket with sleeves? <snort> :D
    Sorry, couldn't help myself. :rolleyes:
     
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  21. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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  22. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    Is there a difference between the Thermarest Z and Ridgerest Classic other than weight and pack size? Is the Z worth double the cost of the Classic? I'm going to play around with one of these and see how they do.

    I've also thought about a Gossamer Gear Nightlight for a CCF pad.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  23. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I prefer the Ridgerest Solar myself but i believe the difference is in the form not the R-Value, packed volume of the Z is smaller and neater
     
  24. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I've thought about the solar, but at $39 on Amazon it's almost double the price of the Ridgecrest and it's paint. First first thought is will that just wear off? Second thought is I'm sure it will radiate heat back toward you, but is it worth double? I'd probably only be using one under another type of pad anyway, so I'm not sure which one to get.
     
  25. Bobsdock

    Bobsdock Scout

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    Outdoor research gortex bivi sack just put your sleeping bag and pad inside it's got a short pole to keep the bivi sack off your face and keeps out the weather. Try eating a candy bar an a cup of coco with aTablespoon or margarine in it just before bedtime
     
  26. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I like it for the extra width, I always use mine over a wide CCF pad which I consider disposable in the long run, I use one to protect the dearer pad
    The aluminium on mine is 12 years old, 12 winters for over 60 nights each winter and if it did wear off it's a warranty issue and Cascade Designs should replace it
    Partly you are paying for the extra R-value
    I like my comfort I use a S2S comfort plus over the RR + CCF combo
     
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  27. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    Thank you for the replies. I like that combination, but where do you buy the CCF? Home Depot?
     
  28. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Almost everybody has the cheap blue pads, Wallyworld is probably the cheapest, not everybody stocks wide pads
    Dicks had wide pads when I was in Binghamton NY last year
     
  29. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I should be good there now thanks for the help!

    The next thing is the clothing. I'm still leaning towards the HPG, but since I'll be working around fire I'd like to have something that won't melt if something lands on it.

    I think the Boreal is a superior product, but if I'm going to spend that much I feel it should be my primary layer and not a supplement. That's why I'm leaning towards an Asbell Pullover that I could throw under my shell if it's raining in the spring or fall. Something long like the Boreal or even the Asbell Anorak would stick out the bottom and aesthetics aside I'd rather not walk around wearing a half soaked garment. The Pullover would blend right into my system and could probably be used as an outer layer in a lot of situations. Is my thought process sound on this?
     
  30. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I've been skiing and cold-wet winter camping for a long time and 0F comes into the cold-wet region.
    Is your existing shell big enough to go over any more layers?
    Cold-Wet is where synthetic insulation shines but I still use a down parka because I am careful in when and how I use it.
    The climbers solution is the Belay parka; a very large loose garment that fits over the shell and the rest of the worn clothing, and the type 2 ECWCS insulated over-parka is derived from that system
    Another possibility is a LW down parka or jacket [ I prefer insulated hoods others do not- this is very much a personal matter but it is difficult to lose an attached hood and I've had many warm hats blown off my head in a strong wind] with a LW synthetic layered to go over the top, and of course everything needs to be sized to be worn together because one day you may need to do exactly that.
    APEX insulation is very easy to work with and if you can sew or have a wife/mate/friend who can then a mountain serape DIY could be a affordable option but turning a CostCo down blanket into a serape is also a relatively easy job, this is a problem for which there are multiple solutions, none of them wrong.
    A surplus poncho plus liner is much cheaper all-round, one solution would be to sew a length of polarfleece to a surplus poncho liner to increase the insulation, CostCo blanket would be warmer and lighter used in the same manner
     
  31. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Another solution used by a Winter-Trekker mate is the old style German army snow camouflage poncho, these are cotton so much less likely to melt around a fire or the woodstove. he has a thick but soft baby cot blanket as the insulation on this, probably cashmere or vicuna it is so thick and soft, a cot blanket is the perfect size for this, covers the core area but doesn't get in the way over the legs
    If I was to use this solution I would endeavour to get the best of both worlds by treating the cotton with diluted neutral silicon to make it waterproof rather than using Nikwax, actually they are cheap on eBay at the moment so I may just get one for myself
     
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  32. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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  33. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I am very tempted to use the Thinsulate that was reserved for my new parka in a hybrid between some UL polyester and some polartec Thermal-Pro, shaping the liner to minimise weight and bulk
     
  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Something like this perhaps? Much warmer than a wool blanket or two and at a third the weight
     
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  35. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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  36. badglide9705

    badglide9705 Supporter Supporter

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    I have a boreal and it is quite long. But its pretty simple to roll it under and up to desired length and it pretty much stays there. That way it doesn't hang out of shell or raingear.
     
  37. Rowtag

    Rowtag Supporter Supporter

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    My opinion has been shaped by my experience camping in the PNW, so definitely not as cold as Utah so your experiences might be different. Primarily I've had to worry about wet conditions just above or below freezing. Like Moondog, I love to climb above tree line and so have adopted mutli-use gear for climbing/skiing and for backpacking gear. Its my opinion is that: 1) down costs more intitally, but is much cheaper the longer you own the item. A good down bag should last you 15 to 20 years and provide nearly the same insulation value as the day you bought it. 2) Your sleeping bag should never get wet and if it does get wet, it was my fault. But even with that said, a wet synthetic bag still wont keep me warm. CLO values plummet to near zero even for wool when wet. 3) Synthetics still have a great use and are best used as "moving layers", specifically fleece. Below I'll try and explain my opinion.
    My experience has been that the cost of synthetics isn't that much of a difference to down: especially long term. On another forum, a Richard Nisley tested actual CLO (CLO is the measure of an item's insulation ability) values of insulation to see how well they performed in real life tests against the company's spec. Manufactures use CLO to standardize insulation values because differences from one person to another. Below is Mr. Nisley's RN lab test results on common clothing. Manufacture's specs shows Climashield APEX at .82 CLO and PrimaLoft Sport is .69 CLO.

    ICLO values.PNG

    In his many articles Mr. Nisley's results show that down is the clear winner, especially the older the item was. He found that synthetic insulation, even the "best" synthetics tested much lower (as low as 15-20% new) than their advertised CLO values especially if the garment was folded repeatedly. This was due to the fact that most synthetic strands break and then lose their ability to loft properly while down compresses and reforms back to the original shape very well so while a synthetic might advertise a higher CLO value, even "new" items that were stored in a warehouse would test much lower than their manufactured spec. His testing validates my own experience with synthetic jackets I've owned that tend to lose their warmth from season to season and how synthetic bags tend to lose their loft over the course of 3-5 years.
    Every time I've gotten my sleeping bag wet it was due to me not taking adequate precautions. I've had to spend a few nights out in the cold because I rigged my tarp incorrectly, failing to account for wind direction or condensation buildup in my tent. Each situation could have easily been avoided with a light weight bivy or more care taken for camp setup. I've spent more than a few nights with a wet synthetic bag without a fire and I cant tell you how miserable that was.
    I believe that synthetics shine in situations that can give you warm while wet performance. For me, this means movement and an increase in core temperature. Some lightweight synthetics like fleece are able to keep you warm while hiking yet still dry out quickly. Synthetic bags cant dry out that quickly but can dry out much faster than down, but again, I still believe that you should never be in a place that your bag is wet.
    I don't want to be misleading here however, I'm not saying that synthetics have no use. I just think that for sleeping bags especially, I would always go with a quality down bag. Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are two of the most respected sleeping bag makers out there that I know of and are very conservative with their temp ratings. They are not cheap upfront, but if you use your sleeping bag 5 times a year, a down bag that costs $300, used 5 times per year and replaced after 15 years would cost $4 per use while a synthetic bag that costs $200, used 5 times per year and was replaced after 5 years would come out to $8 per use.
     
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  38. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    I'll look at this from the other direction - is the uncoated one worth what they're asking for it? it's essentially a roll of closed cell foam. I can get a GI foam pad for $10.

    IMO, it's only the corrugated surface and IR reflective coating that make these pads worth anything at all...
     
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  39. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    "I'll look at this from the other direction - is the uncoated one worth what they're asking for it? it's essentially a roll of closed cell foam. I can get a GI foam pad for $10."

    My answer to that is a definite YES!
    Peoples good ideas are well worth paying for and the good idea that you can get extra R-Value for no extra weight penalty [ those corrugations] is one of the better ideas, the extra bulk because of these ripples/corrugations is a direct result of them working better than a standard mat.
    If you combine a Ridge-Rest with a standard mat [ or Reflexit if that happens to be cheaper] it works even better.
    Of course they are not about comfort, only insulation but I consider them very good value for money, especially when amortised over their long lifetime [ because I use mine protected by a groundsheet or CCF pad I expect at least another 10 years from mine.
    The common compromise has been to use a short Ridge-Rest under the torso where you need the most insulation and a long CCF pad to protect the foot area; but these are the minimums and in winter more is better and much more is better again.
    It's a bit of an OT discussion but what is the point of all that warm clothing and sleeping bag if most of your body heat is robbed to the cold ground.
     
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  40. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Just wondering how it is all going / how it all went, Natch.
     
  41. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I'm bringing this back to the top even tho Natch hasn't yet come back to it.
    My beloved wife has arrived back home with that cheap Brooks Range down halfbag for me.
    While I don't think it would have been worth the original asking price of $700-USD it was well worth the sale price.
    Long and narrow the way a liner bag/half bag should be to maximise warmth, it comes up to the main chest area on me and I'm over 6 foot tall.
    I think the WM Semilite would probably be a better made bag
    http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/extremelite-series/semilite/
    but combined with a decent down parka and the MSS bivvy and Patrol bag I think I would be comfortable if not cosy at 0F/-18C providing as always I had a decent ground pad system. I'll be selling my WM Tamarack now to fund a Semilite in the near future
     

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  42. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    I'm sorry! I never got a notification that there were more posts in here. I wasn't able to test the gear last year, so once it gets cold I'll have to update.

    PS The HPG Serape is $216 shipped. I forget how much it was last year, but I guess that's going to stay off my list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  43. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    $216- is just on half of my new Nunatak sleeping bag so I don't blame you Natch. OK mate keep us in the loop here as we all learn stuff from these posts. This winter I realised my age has finally caught up with me and almost all my gear will need upgrading by 10 to 15C for next winter or up in size because all the good stuff seems to have shrunk
     
  44. Nightflyer

    Nightflyer Scout

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    Military surplus wool greatcoat. I have a Danish overcoat which pretty closely resembles the overcoats worn by the Wehrmacht during WWII. Nice and warm by day and can be used as a wool blanket at night. I've found it to be a warm multi use garment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  45. Flint_2016

    Flint_2016 Guide

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    I'm working on investing in the ECWCS systems now,searching ebay for used items such as a primaloft suit,and a good moisture hating base layer to sleep in my M.S.S.I most likely will shoot for temps in the 30's at first before I go to the single digits.Lastly,I won't sleep in my three season dome tent,but an Army pup tent(entire tent)as there won't be as much condensation.I've seen online an army tent where the individual used a wood stove to keep warm.Hot tents is the way to go for me as I couldn't afford a four season tent.I would pass on the wood stove and invest in a tent heater.My aim is to camp after a good snowfall,using my snowshoes and head to my winter camp(so named because it's a closer hike from where I park my Jeep).I definitely wouldn't sleep under my winter camp lean-to as I refuse to shiver my butt off.One more thing,in snow I would want some type of water proof suit,especially the pants,plus proper footwear.Those Mickey Mouse boots so they're called( USGI Extreme Cold Weather Boots)would definitely fit the ticket.
     

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  46. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Happy suit is great Forget the one piece underwear It is a real PITA, It's a speed climbers thing and totally useless for normal use.
    Get the insulated pants the correct size but if you really want to layer up you can get the jacket a size up although they are reasonably generous
    The pants are too warm to do anything in, you will need fleece pile or woollen pants as well
    Yes you need a storm suit and good comfortable boots I can't comment on the VB boots as I've never worn them
    For me in winter a strong 4th or 5th season tent is non negotiable My safety is too important as is my comfort
    Do not scrimp on the camp mat, it should be warmer rated than your sleeping bag
     
  47. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    A Snuggie works.
     
  48. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    The price on these has come down - esp on the ones NOT in camo. 105-1110 for parka and pants. Modern version of the old idea of insulated over layers.

    Here is the best single article I have found on the topic of staying warm outdoors http://www.itstactical.com/gearcom/apparel/comprehensive-guide-protective-combat-uniform/
     
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  49. 2stoves

    2stoves Scout Bushclass I

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    Other folks on here have made some fine suggestions so I won't try but I would add one thing.

    Take that metal or nagaline water carry that most of us have, fill it almost full of hot *not boiling* water, stuff it in a gallon zip lock freezer bag, and then put that into a wool sock. I place it on my groin area and I stay nice and warm most of the night. It also means I have almost hot water in the AM to boil for coffee.
     
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  50. crewhead05

    crewhead05 Supporter Supporter

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    Older thread I know, here are my thoughts


    What Steve said x1000.

    As far as additional equipment... the combination snugpak poncho liner and patrol ponch adds a fantastic amount of extra warmth when static (not moving) for not much weight and is significantly less expensive than the HPG

    Finally I would suggest practice and learn a thermal shelter. Northern utah gets dang cold (as you know) and without a heavy duty sleep system you will need an additional shelter to protect yourself from the environment.


    Video from @IA Woodsman
     
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