I believe the time has come that..

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by JerseyDevilJeeper, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. JerseyDevilJeeper

    JerseyDevilJeeper Professional Guide Supporter

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    This may have been addressed before but I’d like to troll the lake today.. times have changed. While reading and posting in a great thread covering Awareness in the Bush, I thought it appropriate to pigeon hole it a little more by asking who carries in the woods when not hunting? If so, what? And why?
    As I wrote a few minutes ago:
    “All my life I’ve slept in the woods far from telephone poles and fire hydrants. Many of those times responsible for others of various age and experience levels- Far enough in that if I had a serious gash or run in w a Grizz and my knowledge in dealing w either didn’t work as planned... I wouldn’t make it out.
    Now older and wiser, I’ve decided it’s time for a little Insurance-“
    What do you think?
     
  2. TheGeoSquirrel

    TheGeoSquirrel Supporter Supporter

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    It's always better to have and not need than to need and not have.
    Once your up the creek it's to late to try and carve a paddle.
     
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  3. blind & lost

    blind & lost LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I always do, why take a chance?
     
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  4. Bonekrakker

    Bonekrakker Not a chiropractor Supporter

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    I almost always carry in the woods. Because I like it and I can.
     
  5. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    I carry something all the time I am outside the yard. Sometimes two. I like having a bit more control over events I may not want to be involved in. Some comfort anyway.
     
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  6. Midwest.Bushlore

    Midwest.Bushlore Supporter Supporter

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    I've always carried in the woods and outside of them. Better to not need and have than the other way around.
     
  7. Robert Highhawk

    Robert Highhawk Scout

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    Always. It's a family tradition.
     
  8. PAcanis

    PAcanis Bushmaster Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm not seeing the question in the OP :33: You're asking us to quantify one of your posts in another thread???
    It has been discussed here on almost a monthly basis about the reasons for armed carry, even when not faced by a "grizz".
    The time has come for what?
     
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  9. rhino on INGO

    rhino on INGO Supporter Supporter

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    I'm not physically able to go very far into the woods, but if I did, I'd be carrying the same gear I do when I'm not in the woods. You may encounter few miscreants away from town, but 1) those you do will probably be very bad people, and 2) help is a long way away.
     
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  10. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    Always carry everywhere. There is no question. :dblthumb:
     
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  11. JohnP

    JohnP Only the rocks live forever. Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I always carry. Period. It makes no difference where I am, woods, city, or town. I think it foolish not to.

    JohnP
     
  12. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    Never have, probably never will. Don't own a firearm, don't think I ever will.
     
  13. barkoguru

    barkoguru Scout

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    I carry continuously, in or out of the woods, doesn’t matter what the “odds” are I will or will not need to protect myself or loved ones, I’m not willing to take the chance the “odds” aren’t in my favor on a given day, unless I’m woods bumming alone I’ll have my wife and sometimes one or more of my grand children with me when I’m out and about, I’ll do everything I can to protect them.
     
  14. Gruxxx

    Gruxxx NRA En. Life Member GOA Member Supporter Bushclass I

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    The overwhelming odds are that I'll never need a seatbelt, homeowner's insurance, or a firearm to save me from a catastophic event, yet I buckle up every time I get in a vehicle, pay thousands in premiums, and keep a handgun on myself whenever I step out of the house, because in the event that I ever need any of those things, I may need them desperately.
     
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  15. dial1911

    dial1911 Supporter Supporter

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    Yes... I carry when going into the woods. I'm less worried about four legged animals than I am two legged animals.

    I recently went down to the Flint River with my 13 year old son. We were trying to find a few good sparky rocks. Got under a highway bridge where it was clear people had been camping/living/whatever and decided it was time to back out slowly and leave. Not because I was scared of them, but more because it's not worth the chance of getting into a fight over a few rocks. Never saw any flint/chert anyway.

    This was near a public boat launch with a pretty well worn trail along the river. Still want to find some flint.

    Walking out onto a public trail isn't much different to me. I'll avoid confrontation if at all possible, but would like to be prepared if it's not.
     
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  16. americanstrat98

    americanstrat98 Wanderer Supporter

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    Yes, I do my part as a citizen and carry. When I feel the area poses no threat then I don't.

    Big enough for bear when near them, and small enough to sting when I'm not.
     
  17. Wildcat Creek

    Wildcat Creek Tracker

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    I even carry in the shower, so definitely in the woods.
    I'm not in Grizz country, though there is an occasional black bear encounter but nothing of any note as we both have tended just to back away.
    There are some two legged jackals in my woods, so I carry mainly for them.
     
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  18. ExAF1N1

    ExAF1N1 Member of a small but fierce tribe. LB-42 Supporter

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    Always in the woods, most of the time elsewhere too. As mentioned above, better to have and not need than need and not have. Always have 2 knives at least also, even if small.
     
  19. Woodsroamer

    Woodsroamer Scout

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    I double carry when in the woods I will conceal my 9mm and open carry my 32 s&w long. The 9 is for protection while the 32 is for any varmint/small game that I see in season.
     
  20. Bryan King

    Bryan King Supporter Supporter

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    Always in and out of the woods , I even have one hidden within reach ,as I am typing this. I live in a remote safe neighborhood. I've had to draw a gun many times , only had to use once. With times as they are now if you don't, think about your family.
     
  21. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    Statistically speaking, my kids are in more danger if I have guns in the home than not.
     
  22. Wildcat Creek

    Wildcat Creek Tracker

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    the-dude - in your case you probably are in more danger having a gun. Not everybody should have a firearm, so yeah, I understand. Desmond Doss didn't use one either, and survived on a hostile battlefield, even being awarded the CMH.
    For me though, I'm packing heat, and know how to use it...
     
  23. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    For me, its not a matter of knowing how to use it. Its practicality and reality.

    I cant carry at work, can't carry in schools. Basically id be carrying in my car on my commutes, or around the house. Neither of those places are particularly dangerous.

    At home, the chances of my children being injured or killed far outweigh the chances of bad guys breaking in and trying to do us/them harm.

    The idea of armed protection is warm and fuzzy though.

     
  24. Pinelogcreek

    Pinelogcreek Supporter Supporter

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    This thread left the tracks I’m out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  25. xrayit

    xrayit Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I am always armed 24/7, I do not go to gun free zones ... have not been to Chicago in 10 years and typically stay out of crook county Illinois for pretty much the same reasons. Most of my family... Girlfriend, Dad, sister and mom also carry pretty much 24/7 although I don't think mom sleeps with her firearm like the rest of family does.
     
  26. Pinelogcreek

    Pinelogcreek Supporter Supporter

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    Deleted, pointless to even try.
     
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  27. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    I'm going to come across like a judgemental jerk, so apologies in advance..

    But serious question for those of you that sleep with guns: is your current living situation that dangerous that you require a gun in your sleep?

    I cant imagine living somewhere where you feel that is necessary. I imagine it would feel like prison.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  28. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    Statistically speaking, I really hope you and your children are always able to remain perfectly safe and sound smack dab in the center of the distribution "Bell" curve.
    But for most people, that isn't statistically feasible.
     
  29. jackburton319

    jackburton319 Tracker

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    Never more than a knife 99% of the time, wouldn't mind more but see no reason except 2 leggers, otherwise I'll meet nature and god on 2 legs one knife or another in hand, be what it may
     
  30. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    Most people will statistically be put in a dangerous situation that will require them to be armed with a gun?

    I'm not sure about that.

     
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  31. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    When are your loved ones most vulnerable? Probably when you arent there to protect them.

    I'm only worried about the safety of my children when I'm not around them, and all the guns in the world cant do anything about that.
     
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  32. barkoguru

    barkoguru Scout

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    My grandfather on my moms side never owned a gun, didn’t hunt, wouldn’t eat wild game nor would my mother,never really thought about it much as kid/teen, he passed away in 83, my mom told me they eat so much wild game growing up poor that when they could afford real food they never looked back lol, my grandpa was a giant of a man, according to my mom in his twenties he was a drinker and a gambler, he took two loads of buckshot in the back one night, lost his right arm just past the shoulder, never had anything but a nub after that, he’d wiggle it at us and chase us kids around the yard at his house, that incident changed him for the rest of his life, if he was here today he still wouldn’t have a gun in the house and I’d certainly have no less respect for him, to each his own I say.
     
  33. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    Isn't that why good parents try their best to prepare their children for potential future events... called life?
    You won't always be there, and you won't always know just what situations they may have gotten themselves into, or what may be required to get out of those situations.
     
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  34. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    Precisely! I'm not there with them, armed or not. And they arent armed either, because they're children.

    Am I missing something?

     
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  35. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    They won't always be children, will they. Someday, they will venture off, to various places and situations that will be beyond your control and your reach.
    What happens if they venture to an area where they need to be able to protect themselves, remote from any rapid 911 response? Will you have prepared them for come what may?
     
  36. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    Id like to think that avoiding the false sense of security that comes with gun ownership will encourage better decision making and avoidance of avoidable dangers.

    That said, life is messy and no one gets out alive. Armed people are killed every day, too.

    Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you.

     
  37. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    True, but if I have a firearm, then I have a chance that the bear may be strongly dissuaded or prevented from being able to eat me, or mine, if it comes down to that. :)
     
  38. Luke Dupont

    Luke Dupont Scout

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    That completely depends on many factors, such as:
    1) How you store them
    2) How well you teach your kids about gun safety and to respect firearms
    3) Making sure your kids, even if they own their own firearms or are allowed to use yours, know that other kids may not be as responsible with firearms, and aren't to be given access. When I was given a .22, it was made very clear to me that friends coming over weren't to touch it (with a few exceptions), and that I should pay careful attention to how others handle firearms around me -- if they're doing so irresponsibly, I should distance/remove myself from the situation.
    etc. etc.

    Growing up, my household had a number of firearms, and I was introduced to them from a young age. But I was never in even the remotest danger of hurting myself or anyone else with them (or having someone else do that to me).

    I think that learning how to handle a firearm safely and treat it with respect has made me a safer person in other aspects of life, too. Basically, with a firearm, you handle it in such a way that an accident is impossible. If you are handling it in a way that an accident can occur, then at some point, it will. That mindfulness, and the change of habits accompanying it apply also to everything from safe driving to using cutting tools. If I'm handling an Axe, if I am using it in such a way that it is "safe as long as I am careful and not tired", then I am doing it wrong. I'd better handle it in such a way that, even if I lose focus for a moment or become tired and miss my target, it's not going to be traveling on a path that puts me or anyone else in danger. If I'm driving, I'm going to drive such that accidents can't occur: I'm not going to, for example, rely on another driver to be alert and press the brakes in reaction to, say, my pulling out in front of them. I'm not going to just trust that nothing is behind that blind-spot, even if I have the right of way.

    Children will live up or down to the standards you set for them. I'm glad my parents entrusted me with much responsibility, and a profound sense of what is safety (and by extension, "unsafety"). That mindset has saved me from major accidents on a number of occasions.
     
  39. rhino on INGO

    rhino on INGO Supporter Supporter

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    I don't care if you have a gun or not, but that statement is factually incorrect (unless you're a criminal and intend to cause harm). It's likely your belief is based on factoids that arose from a an article in the New England Journal of Medicine (1986) titled "Protection or Peril?: An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home." To say the study and its conclusions were flawed is an understatement and it has been thoroughly debunked by a number of people who actually understand statistics and analysis (such as Gary Kleck and John Lott). The study erroneously and falsely asserted that a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. Among the issues is that "children" included in the study were as old as 19 and 20 years old and "family members" included gang members and crime associates that frequented a dwelling. The sample size was one town and almost all of the killings we among people involved in illegal drug trafficking. There is nothing valid about the conclusion beyond the small sample chosen, yet it gave rise to an undying myth that too many people fail to question because it satisfies their confirmation bias.

    My only issue here is that your assertion is false, or at the very least, the hypothesis is unsupported by more comprehensive samples of data. Those same data do support the null hypothesis that what you assert is not true. You are free to hold your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts that don't map onto reality.

    If you don't want a gun, no one wants you to have a gun or will try to force you to have a gun. Your reasons for not wanting it don't matter in that regard, as your choice to not have a gun is sufficient. There is no need for justification.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  40. Midwest.Bushlore

    Midwest.Bushlore Supporter Supporter

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    I think that statistics can be used to rationalize about any decision. In an absolute sense it seems logical that the presence of a gun makes it more likely to be shot by one. Yet it's easy to see that raw numbers aren't very predictive. Where I'm from nearly every home has a firearm or twelve, yet I've never known anyone that was accidentally shot by one at home. Of course how the firearms are stored and the attitudes around them influence the odds vastly. If you leave loaded guns in your child's toy box I reckon the odds of a mishap are high. If you store guns in a safe behind locks and/or biometrics, and use cable locks for the triggers, then the odds are probably much higher than you'll die falling in the shower.



    Here's the thing- we both live in the same world, only our understanding and perceptions are different. I once read a humorous quip asking what if when we died we got to see our Top Ten Near Misses?:p In your mind your world is a safe, ordered place. You follow the rules, you pay your taxes, you try not to cut people off in traffic and you follow the rules. So why wouldn't everyone? To some degree you must know that's not how the world really is, but where on the risk spectrum do you really fall? If we're back to statistics again, firearms are used defensively in excess of one million times per year. That doesn't mean the firearm is discharged- that counts every time that the presence of the firearm dissuades or ends an attack.

    Of course, the odds don't tell the whole story; you also have to examine the stakes. If you skydive you might have a main and a reserve chute. Certainly the main fails quite rarely, so would you eschew wearing the other chute? If you need the backup parachute and don't have it at least you'll never need it again!:eek::rolleyes:

    Lastly, not everyone is in your same circumstances. Many folks live in places where the response time to a 911 call is measured in hours or even days! In some parts of AK you're simply on your own. Where I grew up a call for the police would result in a county sheriff being dispatched, and it could take a couple of hours.



    People die in car crashes every day despite wearing seat belts and having airbags- would you conclude then that those items are worthless? I expect that you'd infer statistically that cars today are vastly safer for having that kind of safety equipment. Armed people are killed at times, true. But when armed people fight unarmed people the latter die with monotonous regularity.

    As with seat belts, avoiding cigarettes, watching your diet, etc you can move the needle but certainty is in short supply. Yet there's a risk in allowing perfect to become the enemy of the good.

    If you buy a firearm, take it out of the box to admire it, then stash it in the sock drawer knowing you can now sleep the peace of the armed, then yeah you have a false sense of security. But on some level I expect that you have to understand that for a trained man or woman the firearm can exponentially increase your odds of surviving a gunfight. And remember, the bad guys usually bring their own guns! Gun fights are not always elective or optional- they can and do happen even if you don't elect to bring one! A criminal will not be looking for a fair fight, and neither should you!

    Ultimately you of course have may elect not to actively participate in the defense of yourself and your family. That's your right. We do have police and they do what they can to protect the public at large. Often though that involved carting away bodies and solving the crime of whodunnit. If you opt not to add that layer to your security that's your business, but intellectually you should be able to understand that not everyone will choose to take a passive role to personal security.

    To many of us owning a firearm is simple acknowledgement that the world has dangers and that ultimately everyone bears at least some responsibility for their own life and safety.

    Given your location and views about guns, I expect that you and I likely agree on a lot of things. But this is not one of them! Hopefully we can share our views respectfully though!:)
     
  41. Stags Crest

    Stags Crest Crafty McBushcraft Supporter

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    I wholly advocate for the exercise of your 2nd amendment rights at all times where legal. That said I do not advocate carrying without a level of training that is above and beyond what the average person is willing to go through the trouble to get. Get armed, get trained, be ready not paranoid. I hope you never have to use it and I hope that if you do, you come out on top.
     
  42. Stags Crest

    Stags Crest Crafty McBushcraft Supporter

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    Mad respect for recognizing your own qualifications and experience with firearms. Far too often I see people overestimate their skill with a gun and as a result put others in danger. While I would encourage you to explore the option I am glad you are self aware enough to recognize that it would do more harm than good for you personally. :dblthumb:
     
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  43. Raymond Eisele

    Raymond Eisele Scout

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    When I was growing up there were no guns in our house. Dad went through ww11. Never talked about it, never inquired. When I was on my own, purchased my first gun. Dad didn't approve. Didn't approve of my motor cycle either. In his mind, I think he was protecting me. But he had raised me to be responsible, and I am. Everday on the farm, do things that are dangerous. Fear my large chain saw, but because of the fear and respect, still have all my parts. I know my tractor could kill me, my saw could cut me in half, my gun can kill. Fear and respect. If I had children, that is the lesson would try to teach them.
     
  44. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    I'm not inexperienced nor unskilled with a firearm. I just dont own one.

    I couldnt agree more strongly about confidence vs skill. Its call the dunning-kruger effect, and I would venture a guess that most gun carrying citizens are overly confident and undertrained.

     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  45. 1911srule

    1911srule Guide

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    Its an insurance you hope you never need but if you do will be darn glad ya have it.
     
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  46. Stags Crest

    Stags Crest Crafty McBushcraft Supporter

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    Then I apologize for making that assumption incorrectly. And yes an unskilled over confident person with a gun can be almost as dangerous as a bad guy with a gun.
     
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  47. Ade

    Ade Supporter Supporter

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    In the immortal words of Mark Twain, “There are lies, damn lies, and statistics...”

    My opinion—

    You can either child-proof your guns or you can gun-proof your children. I chose the latter route. It’s working very well. Of three children, none have hurt themselves (or anyone else for that matter) so far. Two are now adults. One is rapidly approaching adulthood (two years to go). My wife was gun-proof long before I met her. I, myself, was gun-proof before my age was even close to double-digits. I am at the point where, if I wanted to, I could leave loaded guns laying about the house with zero worries.

    However, to each his own.
     
  48. Gascozark

    Gascozark Tracker

    Joined:
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    Location:
    MO, USA
    I live in a relatively safe area, but I still have a firearm near at hand because evil exists in the world. If evil were to insert itself into my life, I’d like to face it on my own terms.
     
  49. IzaWildman

    IzaWildman Grey Owl Supporter

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    I grew up in a house full of guns and knew every one of them was loaded. None of them were locked up. My father taught me and my brother and sister well and we are all alive and well today.
     
    Gascozark, drobs, Lee C. and 4 others like this.
  50. jpoe88

    jpoe88 Scout

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    We aren't armed to the teeth, but we have firearms. My 7 year old has a 80's Glenfield Model 60 in his closet.

    That being said, I have the shells. He does not. He is trusted enough to know to ask before he touches. My dad brought me up the same way.

    We have been over what's acceptable and what isnt. Killing people is not acceptable and is condemned.


    Having said all of that, I usually carry that Glenfield when I'm along in the woods. I can spit out 14 rounds really fast. The biggest threat in the woods down here is another man, possibly a black bear, and I am not too concerned with either.


    If the man came to my door and said I had to turn over my guns or eat lead, and that put my family in danger, we would hand them over.
     
    Midwest.Bushlore and M.Hatfield like this.

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