I believe the time has come that..

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by JerseyDevilJeeper, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. JerseyDevilJeeper

    JerseyDevilJeeper Professional Guide Supporter

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    Sacred bacon?
     
  2. jpoe88

    jpoe88 Supporter Supporter

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    Have you considered a Leinad 45/410 derringer? A friend has one that he woods carries in a leather sheath he made.

    I've never encountered a bear, and I'm sure I'd rather have more than 2 rds of 410 #6, but I'd say that 90% of what I'd see in the woods down here is gonna be shaggin ass after the first one lets off.

    Not sure how 45LC fairs towards a grizz
     
  3. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    OK.

    Imagine you had one with you on your last trip.

    Where or how would have carried it?

    Did you have a backpack with hip belt, because that conflicts with a standard belt holster that’s worn on your pants belt.

    Does that change how you’d carry it after you take off your pack?

    Do you go swimming? Because while you’re swimming your gun is not with you. How would you secure it?

    How much extra weight are you willing to carry? Gun + holster + ammo adds up quick.

    It can be a burden, and that’s hard to understand that if you haven’t considered how it will change what you’ve been doing up to now.
     
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  4. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    The victims of the recent shooting in El Paso, TX were probably thinking that they were as safe as can be. I'll wager that more than one of them thought, "If I'd only brought my gun".

    It's been my experience that in the 'outback', guys feel the urge to let their inhibitions loose and will do things they wouldn't otherwise do.

    I and a friend were out and about when we were confronted by a group of five men. They had all been drinking and were bordering on being rowdy. They were what my Grandfather would call, 'Yay-hoos'. It was late in the year and we were scouting for a late season deer hunt. We were wearing long jackets. During the confrontation, my partner's jacket billowed open exposing his .45 Colt Automatic. As soon as it was noticed, the guys quickly regained their manners and the situation resolved itself.

    The confrontation began when we came upon these guys who were parked blocking the dirt track we were on. They told us they'd move "when we're damn good and ready". Naturally things escalated from there. We were on a time schedule and their three trucks completely blocked the 'road'. Beer was openly being consumed by these Yay-hoos and it was apparent they had stopped to pee and crack fresh beers.

    This was not something to be expected in this area. Indeed, it was rare to see anyone on this road so we were surprised to be blocked in this manner. Had it not been for us being armed, the situation would have gotten out of control quickly.

    For guys who say that it's better to have and not need than to need and not have, this is a prime example proving that axiom.

    Steve
     
  5. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

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    I am more concerned about transitioning into and out of the woods than I am about what's in the woods themselves. Parking lots in relatively secluded areas next to easy egress (roads) look like targets to me, but that's informed by my time working in banks. Branches without much else around just off major highways get knocked over. Or at least that was our understanding from management. I'm not super worried about it, to be honest. Sometimes I carry, sometimes I don't.

    Glad someone pounced on the Kellermann study. It's trash.

    Ain't wrong.

    https://m.theepochtimes.com/youve-g...victim-says-mom-left-gun-at-home_3032032.html
     
  6. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

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    “If only I had brought my gun”, or “If only there were stricter gun possession laws”, or “Am I or is someone I love going to die.” Armed soldiers trained for battle and armed police officers get killed pretty regularly too, so having a gun isn’t always the answer... Carry if you like, don’t carry if you like,,, gun or no gun,,, death is a very real possibility when someone with a gun is trying to kill you ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  7. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    I don't know if that was useful. It left me kind of confused?!?
     
  8. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

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    Hey, I was confused by the guy claiming to be skilled in the use of a thing he says he doesn't own.

    Weird thread man, just go with it.
     
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  9. Toytech

    Toytech Scout

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    Literally millions of Canadians , Australians , Europeans , Eastern Europeans ,and a surprising large number of Russians (very restrictive gun laws ) go out in the woods unarmed all the time and we all survive (mostly ) . You are way more likely to die in a car crash on the way to the woods then murdered there , or attacked by an animal .
     
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  10. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    You sound easily confused.

     
  11. barkoguru

    barkoguru Scout

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    I basically don’t want me or mine to happen to be the ones that don’t fall into that “most survive” category, I’ll carry here in the U.S. not really concerned how other countries do it, or individuals that just don’t want to carry for that matter, it’s a personal choice either way, I totally respect that choice, as far as more likely to die in a crash, maybe so, but I can change my odds there too by wearing a seatbelt, by taking my large truck instead of my little Toyota, not traveling in bad weather etc, options changes the odds sometimes.
     
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  12. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    It’s personal decision and it’s a right. I’m sure if the people in other countries had the option they might.

    I just feel it’s important for someone new to it to understand the responsibility.

    It’s almost like your eyeglasses. You wear them all day and you only put them done within arms reach, in a safe place where they won’t get damaged.

    The gun is like that only you need to have control at all times because the consequences are much worse than a broken pair of eyeglasses. And when it’s not in your control it’s still your responsibility.

    Very few of my non gun friends can handle that responsibility. They leave knives out on the ground beside their dirty pot and the following my day clean them only when they need it.

    They’re too carefree to be burdened by something that requires much responsibility.

    I carry mine in a pouch on my hip belt. When my pack is off I carry it in a separate holster. Yes I bring a separate holster.

    I don’t unholster it unless I’m going to sleep in which case I put it beside my eyeglasses next to me. It’s a revolver so I don’t feel it needs the trigger covered, but if it was my Glock I’d use a trigger shield to prevent something from setting off the trigger as it slides around on the tent floor.

    I don’t go swimming if I have it with me. I won’t leave it unattended period.

    To some of my friends that would be too much burden.

    That’s why I ask if someone managed this far without one???
     
  13. JerseyDevilJeeper

    JerseyDevilJeeper Professional Guide Supporter

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    I think the Walker carries one of those?
    Aren’t those over 5 new?
     
  14. jpoe88

    jpoe88 Supporter Supporter

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    No clue. The scatterbox models bring more for sure. I think my buddy paid like $200 new for his. Definitely not a show piece. His is a 6" SxS. I thought I was gonna catch fire shooting it lol
     
  15. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

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    Millions of Americans also get along in the woods without a gun,,,
     
  16. barkoguru

    barkoguru Scout

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    But we get to choose to carry or not, some of those guys, not so much, and I’d say millions of Americans also carry in the woods, the majority you’ll pass and never know there carrying.
     
  17. JerseyDevilJeeper

    JerseyDevilJeeper Professional Guide Supporter

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    I did.. granted I’ve only done 2-5 miles over 6 outings but I’m dialing in.
    My sling pack has a large rear sleeve easily accessible within seconds - comfortably practiced at the range 1st of course. I’ve also found OWB cross draw comfortable (buttoned shirt) as well. I rarely go swimming while in the woods though. Overall I’m not hindered by weight or bulk. I have a comfortable shoulder holster that I may consider as the weather changes -
    Agreed
     
  18. Kennebago

    Kennebago Scout

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    I truly don't mean any offense by this man, but so do you.

    Unless you work for a reasonably-well-funded agency/department/whatever and train a LOT on the taxpayers' dime, not owning a firearm is going to cripple any attempt at meaningful skill-building or maintenance. And even then... guys that shoot at a reasonable level train on their own time, and probably with their own equipment. You are an intelligent person and certainly know that.

    So yes, it is entirely reasonable to not follow someone when they say they don't own a gun but consider themselves "not unskilled" anyway.

    Are you issued a weapon? That would make somewhat more sense.

    Genuine questions. Not trying to be combative, and not trying to be a jerk. Trying to understand where you are coming from.
     
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  19. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    The LE people I know are all over the place when it comes to marksmanship. Some are “into it” and some you wonder how they ever qualified.

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the civilians that are into shooting likely have better shooting skills than the average police officer.

    Having been around them and shot with them I had to wonder why some where so bad, it was sort of scary and disappointing.
     
  20. TrespassersWilliam

    TrespassersWilliam Supporter Supporter

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    Hey, whatever it takes to rationalize the choices that have already been made for you.

    Our F&G club runs affordable weekly "Refuse to be a Victim" classes on a dynamic range simulating real world defensive situations and scores performance under stress.

    Scoring helps a lot of people understand where they fall on the "skilled" and "unskilled" spectrum.

    ...but even young kids who are properly trained in the basics can save a life with a firearm.

    Emotionally disturbed kids from broken homes, homes with drug and alcohol addiction, or parents with progressive parenting techniques learned from trendy magazines might have different results.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  21. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    Seems to me that...
    If you're going to "own the skills", you have to put in your own "sweat equity" to do so, and you need to have your "tools" immediately at hand.
    Or, you're going to have to put up your "financial equity" to someone else who you may or may not know, and hope like hell they might be capable and proficient, and possess the tools, and that they will be immediately available when you really need them.
    Would you rather be independent... or a dependant?
    Which is the better choice?
     
  22. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    i was lauded in this thread earlier for recognizing that i lack the proper skills to responsibly own a gun, and it was a probably a good thing that i didn't own one.

    i have not fired a gun in more than 5 years. i wouldn't say that my skills as they stand today are stellar, nor would they compare to most of yours'. i simply stated that i was not unskilled with a firearm, nor do i lack experience.

    that's all. i'm done making a mess of this thread.
     
  23. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    We aren't to far apart. If ya ever wanna shoot let me know. I can't go to Mass but feel free to take a trip down to CT.
     
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  24. the_dude

    the_dude Supporter Supporter

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    i appreciate the offer. i might take you up on it sometime.

     
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  25. akbound

    akbound Guide

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    As an aside from the “protection” issue, I also have a gun(s) along for the “recreational” value it/they provide for me, as well as the “work” they can do for me. (Don’t misunderstand me, I realize the protection issue is a, if not the, primary issue!)

    I believe the “recreational” aspects of firearms use are understood by most firearms owners; and as to the work, if you’ve ever suffered loss of livestock, or veterinary expenses, because of feral or wildlife you understand some aspects of the “work” firearms can do for you. Occasionally, under the right circumstances they can provide meals for you, and companions. They can act as signaling devices in emergencies. They can also provide for peace of mind at times (which for some is actually maybe more important than the real security they can provide).

    My firearms also tend to be “repositories” of many fond memories for me as well; and in truth I often much prefer their company to that of a somewhat significant portion of today’s human race! To wit, when was the last time a firearm wasted a good fire by complaining all evening of its problems, and blaming everything and everybody but itself? Or for the most part, when did it last fail to “do its job”, if “you did yours”? Starting to see what I mean?;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  26. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    I agree with ^^^

    1. Can you accept and own the responsibility?

    2. Are you willing to take the time and spend the money on professional training?
     
  27. roadwarrior

    roadwarrior Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    It is part of my woods gear, I don't want to be caught off guard.
     
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