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IBS sufferers...HELP

Discussion in 'Bush Medicine' started by RangerJoe, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. castle22

    castle22 Tracker

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    I'll start by saying IBD is known to be a "first world disease", so it's almost certain that a difference in lifestyle, diet, or something else in more developed countries is to blame. What that is exactly no one knows. I personally have a suspicion it's overuse of antibiotics.

    That said, I hope I don't come across as combative, this is a very touchy subject for me and through the course of dealing with this I've come to live by two maxims

    1. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    2. Alternative medicine that works is just called medicine.

    Everybody poops, and it seems everyone has an opinion on it. With IBD being an incurable and very frustrating disease to treat, I've found there's a huge market for diets (for which you need to buy the book to get the full story), herbal supplements (which need to be purchased and used for months before any effects can be felt) or any other sort of miracle cure. Have I tried that specific type of supplement? No, but I've tried many like it. Most will all claim the same things, I'd likely be dead by I got around to trying them all. Everyone wants an easy, cheap, and healthy cure with no side effects, but it's just not there.

    Most people will have some form of minor digestive issue in their life, the placebo effect is strong, and I believe a lot of people can truly feel the difference. In my case though, it wasn't a matter of a self diagnosed IBS or colitis, with occasional diarrhea or gas or whatever. It was a serious and basically incapacitating condition. I went from being in the best shape of my life getting ready for Ranger school to less than a year later unable to run a mile, or stay awake through a full day. I was malnourished and anemic. (I won't even get into the difficulties of shitting myself self several times a week) Anyone can say anything on the internet, so I've read a lot of "testimonials" about miracle cures such as the one you linked, but the places where people who are actually diagnosed with IBD are, are nearly silent on any of these recommendations. For me (and the few other people I know personally with chron's or colitis) the only thing to have any positive effect were immunosuppressant drugs, the same thing you would get if you got an organ transplant. Some are able to get by on just milder drugs. There are extremely severe risks, and not only that but I had to give up my career in the Army. Believe me, if it were simply a matter of taking some herbal supplements and dropping caffeine (which I avoid for the most part as is) I would've done it in a heartbeat.

    I rarely bring it up, on the internet or otherwise, because it tends to have this effect of people coming out to give advice - I know you and everyone else means well - but it's a issue very few understand (even most doctors!) and I've yet to hear something new or of any value.

    With that said I'll restate my original advice which is if something is definitely wrong, you need to go see a doctor. I hope I didn't come across as too abrasive. The internet is great for a lot of things, medical advice is not one of them.
     
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  2. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    No offense taken. Like I said, you didn't ask for advice and I really don't like to meddle. I was just trying to help by offering some insight that most people aren't aware of.

    I know people who this stuff has helped. Its been around for a long time. But its your body and your call. I respect your decision.

    I still wish you the best on your continued recovery.
     
  3. proud dad

    proud dad Scout

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    Having been diagnosed with both IBS and Diverticulitis, after having cramps so bad I have passed out from the pain and having every test under the sun, I can tell you what I was told by both my Family Doc and my GI Doc.

    Lots of Water, Lots of Fiber, pro-biotics.

    Your diatary fiber intake should be at least 25 - 30 grams daily. I get a good start on mine with bran cereal and 100% Acacia Fiber that I mix with my coffee. Neither cause me to be gassy

    The pro-biotics can come from either naturally fermented foods like sauerkraut or from a supplement. If you choose to go with the supplement, make sure it contains live bacteria from at least 8-10 different strains and at least 30 billion live cultures, the more the better. (By the way if it is not refrigerated at the store it isn't live.) Mine contains 33 strains and 50 billion live cultures.

    Hope you get to feeling better soon
     
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  4. ScottC

    ScottC Tracker

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    Bennifiber helps as does a really bland diet of water, low-salt crackers, and either pedia-care or homemade electrolyte replacement. (Gatorade has too much corn-syrup in the pre-mixed.) Once calmed down, slowly add small amounts of rice and other bland foods. Meat is fine as long as not greasy or fried in any way. Be leery of chicken unless antibiotic-free.

    Mega doses of a probiotic called Florajen3 (2 morning and 2 evening) seems to help as much as anything.

    Good luck...
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  5. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    :31:

    You did eat a lot of meat in those days.
     
  6. Iz

    Iz MEMBER of a BANNED Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Rub some dirt on it, Joe!!!
     
  7. RangerJoe

    RangerJoe Bushwhacker Bushclass II

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    I went back to the Dr. and he prescribed Librax chlordiazepoxide/clidiniu
    anyone have experience with it?
    I read up and people swear by it...there are side effects, but I'm desperate.
     
  8. foxfire

    foxfire Supporter Supporter

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    Joe, all medications have the potential of side effects. You may never develop side effects from it or you may. The benefit is if it works and gets your problem under control. Eep a log of all the foods and drinks you consume daily and see what you have had when you have episodes. Another issue is stress which can cause things to flair up.
     
  9. rarmentr

    rarmentr Scout

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    roger that on the probiotic and benefiber
     
  10. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    Just about any digestive supplement that contains psillium will help. Psillium helps bind the waste into a firmer stool so that you don't feel like a tastee-freeze machine.

    I don't remember the different brands but they should be easy to find in a drug store.

    Steve
     
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  11. clanmaki

    clanmaki Supporter Supporter

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    LOL! I will never look at a taste-freeze the same way again.
     
  12. petey091

    petey091 Scout

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    You think eating mountain house meals was the issue. Could it have really been the water it was mixed with?
     
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  13. wisconsinwalter

    wisconsinwalter Supporter Supporter

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    I feel you, I lost a career doing what I loved as well. I had a build up of bacteria for years behind the scarring when I had my intestines cut out then redacted in surgery to remove the mangled mess. It is a personal thing as everyone reacts differently to meds

    Good post!
     
  14. wisconsinwalter

    wisconsinwalter Supporter Supporter

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    I tried it and didn't like it, it clashed with other meds I was already taking and I hated feeling like a "zombie". It wasn't that intense, but coupled with a few others, it was too much. YMMV
     
  15. John Fenna

    John Fenna Scout Bushclass III

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    I find that Aloe Vera juice and/ or peppermint oil in a capsule that does not get digested - letting the oil get to the gut not just the stomach - does the trick for me.
    The peppermint oil was prescribed by the doctor who diagnosed my IBS - the Aloe is an over the counter medicine that I find works well but can be expensive - it was recommended for my wife when she was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis. She no longer suffers from the condition.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
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  16. Bob Sundquist

    Bob Sundquist Guide

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    A lot of gas does not necessarily equate to IBS. Excess gas as an ongoing problem you could look at a condition know as fermentation dysbiosis. I would start with an elimination diet. Get rid of dairy, caffeine, white surgar and wheat. Supplement with a good pro biotic. This will help reestablish the flora. Now for the IBS you need something for the intestine to push against. This is where the Metamucil (or generic) comes into play. You could also try some DGL to help coat the stomach. Use the tablets, not the chewables, they taste nasty. If you were my patient and we had established a doctor patient relationship this is what I would recommend for you to try.
     
  17. Creaky Bones

    Creaky Bones Supporter Supporter

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    If the side effects bother you, you could ask about hyoscyamine. It's an anti-spasmotic without the added anti-anxiety meds. The only side effect I've noticed from that is dry mouth and it occasionally dries my eyes out enough to make my contacts annoying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
  18. gila_dog

    gila_dog BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    My wife has suffered with IBS for years. She knows certain foods aggravate it and tries to avoid them. But eating in restaurants or other peoples' houses is always risky. I've read some about fecal microbiota transplants (FMT) being a possible cure for IBS. There is some evidence that it works, but no serious studies have been done. It has been proven without a doubt to work for Clostridium difficile infection (CDI).

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-p...seases/quick-inexpensive-90-percent-cure-rate

    http://gi.org/media/press-releases-for-acg-annual-scientific-meeting/fmt-ibd-ibs/

    I know that if I had IBS I would look into this. But not my wife. She would rather suffer and try everything else. FMT is just too gross for her to consider.
     
  19. tabasco_joe

    tabasco_joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I've been battling IBS for over 40 years. It could well be you had the right combination to trigger it. For me stress, soy, peanuts, alcohol, and others often seem to be in the mix when I get an attack. Once it starts other foods such as dairy products or acidic foods just add to the misery. I've watched some of your videos and the diet you fellows are on during a trip would kill me today. Don't get me wrong, I did the same thing years ago. At some point many of us can't continue that diet and have to adjust. I have never found the complete answer but have found that moderation and "smarter" food selection reduces the odds I have problems. You will have to experiment to see what works best for you.

    Like others I have had tests, consults, etc with very little improvement. By trial and error I have reduced the occurrences.

    Good luck, hope you recover quickly.
     
  20. LMT66

    LMT66 Supporter Supporter

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    My cut to the chase advice if yer sheeting river water all day with no control .....

    Get Imodium tablets (not the liquid) and get a bottle of Probiotics. See if the combo used daily slows the flow or firms things up. This combo worked well for me and is in my "tool box".

    A cholesterol med called Colestid along with Pro-biotics is my current combo . It has a side effect of constipation and is often prescribed for IBS-D. If prescribed, usually given with anti-nausea pills that you'll need for the first few days.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
  21. TStilwell

    TStilwell Guide

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    I was diagnosed back as a teenager with it. IBS sucks, I remember the doc describing it to my mom, said the pain from the gas cramps was like the worst menstrual cramps. They gave me a little green pill that dissolved under my tongue back then. The things that can set me off are corn, and most of its by-products, as well as many of the chemicals in over processed foods. The other thing that gives me big trouble is stress, not eating regularly enough, and sometimes I seem to become dairy sensitive out of no where(thankfully that never lasts long)
    I cut out the processed stuff and corn at the doctors reccomendation about six years ago. Meant no more whiskey since it's all made from corn, even some gin and others.

    Anyway I hope your guts are back on your team again man. Think about asking the doc about corn they put it in freaking everything. Dealing with a bout myself right now.
     
  22. GoodOlBoy

    GoodOlBoy Scout

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    Mine turned out to be two things. I am allergic to soy, AND I had stomach parasites from public water. I stopped eating soy, and added cayenne pepper to my daily consumption and within a month I was in good shape. I can tell you that I can absolutely tell when something has soy in it to this day. If I eat it, and then it reacts like a steaming glass of mexican well water, then it's probably full of soy.

    GoodOlBoy
     
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  23. Donfini

    Donfini Some who wander are lost

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    It might be a good time to switch to making your own dehydrated trail food. You might find dehydrated ginger root, leathers, make chews or can be used for tea. Take along some dried peppermint also for tea.
     
  24. ScottC

    ScottC Tracker

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    Read the Probiotic labels (like everything else) - those only listing acidophilus are only good if your female with a yeast infection. The brand I use is called Florajen3 with 15 billion live cultures per tablet. I take 2 in the morning and two again in the evening along with a prebiotic each time. I've no doubt this has helped more than most anything else.

    Mine took a lot of years to morph into SIBO (small intestinal bacterial overgrowth). Been going the last few years eating ONLY meat, cooked kale/carrots/green & yellow beans, and quinoa. The very limited fruits must be cooked, like everything else. (Look up low fodmap diet to the extreme.)

    Good luck!
     
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  25. DrK

    DrK Scout

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    I have treated a fair amount if IBS. Typically, what caused it is not the same thing(s) as what triggers it to act up.

    Causes:
    Severe bowel infection
    Bowel sensitivity - normal contractions cause bowel nerves to fire
    Food sensitivity
    History of verbal, sexual, physical abuse

    Triggers:
    Stress and anxiety
    Certain foods - dairy, legumes, cruciferous veges

    The multiple causes and triggers are what make it hard to figure out. There's no one thing.

    Food elimination trials, cognitive behavior therapy and meds can help. The second one, CBT, is underutilized.

    LK
     
  26. NoBrakesRacing

    NoBrakesRacing Scout

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    I've been taking colestipol hcl 5g for a number of years and it has helped a lot but some foods will still trigger it. It is designed to lower your cholesterol but a side effect is that it slows down the food in your intestines giving it time to be absorbed.
    Lately have added a probiotic, like Align but Sam's club brand.

    Good luck

    Jv
     
  27. teb_atoz

    teb_atoz Banned Member Banned

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    Probiotis are another holestic scam. It has been show clinically some probiotic can actually cause issue rathen the fix them. Bu people want to try something and there are lots of snake oil sales man out there in the holestic medicine arrenia.
    FOr IBS I never saw a case of it in my 6+ years as a Hospital Corpsman. So I have no idea. Sorry Joe for your misery.
     
  28. bojon01

    bojon01 Tracker

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    Florajen3 is a probiotic that helped me. I went to a specialist who did lots of test and his prescription was a pill a daily for the rest of my life. I started Floajen3 taking a pill a day for about 4 weeks and was so much better I only taken them rarely now to keep my gut in check. I also have reduced my gluten intake because it isn't good for us anyway. I have had 5 friends that Florajen has changed their life! It's cheap so give it a try.
     
  29. TX-1948

    TX-1948 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    For almost 50 years, off and on, I have lived with some form of IBS. While in college I took Librax...I suppose it helped....but did not stop the problem....
    The most effective long term adjustment I made was to drink LOTS of water, cut back on fatty foods, eat high fiber foods, and avoid highly processed meats....for me....it reduced the number occurrences and moderated the symptoms overall....
    Hope you can get this cleared up....IBS definitely takes some of the zest out of daily living....
     
  30. okcmco

    okcmco Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    I have\had severe colitis and I went from 210 lbs to about 135 in 6 or 7 months. The medication screwed up my system badly and I got off of it. Not say you should
    The caveman diet really helped me. Lean protein and veggies. No starch. No corn. No gluten. Also organic when u can I stopped coffee but am now enjoying in moderation. No sugars. See sugars and starch cause inflammation. Iflamatory bowel conditions are exacerbated by this. Also I could not take NSAIDs. So no aspirin, Alieve, Advil etc.
    Probiotics are key. As strange as it sounds enemas with probiotics and aloe Vera juice helped me. I also drink aloe juice (George's brand).
    I rarely have a flair up but when I do, it is usually some thing I knew I should not have eaten. But also if I am stressed, overworked, depressed or short on sleep, this will cause a flair up
    I think stress (both emotional and physical) is the big factor for me.
    For the record there are supplements that reduce inflammation like organic ginger. Turmeric, bromelain all available in pill form.
     
  31. okcmco

    okcmco Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    You need to have the proper mix of probiotics, not just any. There are no screens they can do to find out what you actually have in your gut and the strains of bacteria that you do not have can be added to a supplement. There is no processing food without these bacteria. I am not a doctor but this is working for me. It is not a scam. You just have to do your research
     
  32. BrandonJ

    BrandonJ Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    They actually were giving me probiotics in the hospital in the last few weeks to try to help with the massive dose of antibiotics. First time I've seen this. I think its pretty awesome. Been using different strains of probiotics for years and always try to eat probiotic rich / fermented foods. It really has helped my guts. Also if I even get a whiff of dairy, its like old faithful. Gotta read all the ingredients in food carefully.
     
  33. Keif

    Keif Scout

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    My wife used to suffer from this and gluten and lactose intolerance. After some research we both(I didn't have the alergies just doing as support) used Colonix. Its fiber in the morning, some veggie pills, and a tea you drink at night. We both eat fairly healthy, but it was amazing what came out. Her food alergies basically dissapeared and I felt alot better and lighter, lol. Now we redo it every 5 yrs or so if her alergies start coming back. I highly reccomend a colon cleanse. Its gross but that was our experience.
     
  34. Joe in MI

    Joe in MI Tracker

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    I've had frequent bouts of *something* for the last two years or so. Sorta fits SIBO, sorta fits lactose intolerance, mostly fits IBS. I've been taking Align for about a year. It got to the point where even that wasn't doing much good. Then, suddenly, my symptoms started getting better. After I thought about it, I realized I started improving when I got a new gun belt at work - one that wasn't really tight, like my old one has been for a couple years. Since then I've made sure my pants and belts are not putting pressure on my gut, and I've been feeling a lot better. I don't know if I'm fixed for good yet or not, but I haven't taken the probiotics for over a week and I'm doing better than I have for a few years.
     
  35. chris67

    chris67 Supporter Supporter

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    My friends wife uses a liquid aloe supplement for her IBS and she says it really helps. I would avoid eating those pre packed meals they screw most people up including myself. My bowels and my wallet are way happier since ive started dehydrating my own food.
     
  36. Knighthorse

    Knighthorse Scout

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    Sent a novel sized PM.
     
  37. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    +1 on this.

    Your gut has over 400 types of bacteria--some are necessary for digestion, some are bad for you. Antibiotics kill both the good and the bad flora indiscriminately. Colloidal Silver does the same. I use diluted Oil of Oregano instead (more here: http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/145545-Spices-That-Can-Serve-Multiple-Purposes/page4). Oregano is a "smart herb" and leaves the good flora alone.

    When people take probiotics, it is usually just one type--Acidopholus. Some of the better ones may have ten (or so). This is still far short of the couple hundred or so in a healthy gut. However, just 10 (or so) probiotics will help a lot. They will also help to prevent candida overgrowth (yeast infection). Udo’s Choice probiotics are generally well regarded. Yogurt, as sold in supermarkets won't do it. It usually has just one strain and pasteurization destroys most of the useful stuff.

    Still, it would be better to eat fermented foods: raw sauerkraut, Kim Chi, raw apple cider vinegar, Rejuvelac, or miso. The fermented foods you get in the supermarket lose a lot of their virtue during processing. Rejuvelac is made from wheat (obviously not an option for some). The method how to make it is described at the bottom of this page: http://drchristophersherbshop.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html. It is supposed to work quite well. It's kind of smelly though. Apple cider vinegar is not a probiotic, but it contains ingredients which are helpful to promote probiotics (according to research done by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service).

    If you are prescribed antibiotics, make sure you speak to your doctor about probiotics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2015
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  38. ScrambledO

    ScrambledO Scout

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    Thanks for all the information. I just started a food journal today, hoping that taking notes and writing how i feel everyday for a few weeks will help me ID which foods irritate me the most. Not sure how true this is, but i did read that some people will have permanent damage to their digestive system that stems from food bourn illness. I got a bad meal at taco bell about 2 years ago, and i felt sick for a month. Ever since, my stomach has been screwed up bad.

    Things that have helped me recently are, metamucil (fiber supplement), eating a balanced diet, staying away from processed meats (boars head turkey tears me up!) and dairy, and lots and lots of water. I tried to go all raw vegan and eat tons of carbs, while getting everything from grains, veggies and fruits... but i lost some weight and it wasn't making me feel much better. I just am going to eat foods in moderation, because a big change in your diet can also irritate your digestion.

    It sucks bad being only 29 and always having to worry about what your going to eat. Just 5 years ago , i could chug beers, bourbon and eat double bacon cheeseburgers... And be fine. SUCKS BADDDD!
     
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  39. bojon01

    bojon01 Tracker

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    Probiotics work great but I would suggest live cultures like in Floragen 3. Make sure it has the 3 at the end because they make regular for ladies with yeast infections. If you locate a drug store near you from their site, you will have to get it from the pharmacy because they keep it in the refrigerator. Good luck and many other suggestions like the fermented foods help as do many of the other suggestions.

    http://www.florajen.com/products-florajen3.shtml
     
  40. twobrat

    twobrat Tracker

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    I'm seeing tons of suggestions for fiber which is great and I think the #1 solution for me, water 2nd. But please please please if you haven't tried it yet make sure you try acacia fiber, it's different. I use "Heathers Tummy Fiber". Also... my name is Joe, so it must work for you [emoji12]
     
  41. winterlover

    winterlover Supporter Supporter

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    Somebody might have already suggested this, but in case they haven't, have you been tested for Giardia and/or other intestinal bugs? The fact that it flared up so much after a backpacking trip is a bit of a red flag...
     
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  42. Monabnojer

    Monabnojer Tracker

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    Joe, I just remembered you posted this a long time ago. I found a cure for my IBS. I haven't had ANY problems for going on 18 Months now (after 20+ years since it started).

    Bone Broth. Basically beef or chicken broth made from boiling the bones. My wife makes it in the crock pot with the carcass after cooking a chicken. I drink about 1 mason jar a week (flavored with soy sauce and ginger) and no more problems.

    I learned about this from a cousin who is into natural remedies. Her husband had Crohn's disease for years and after a week of bone broth every day had no more problems EVER. It has something to do with coating the lining of your gut with gelatin or something. Anyway hope this works for you it has for everyone else that I've told that's tried it. It's changed my life (Even if it's only made it a little more convenient not having to poop every time I turn around.) :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  43. jontok

    jontok Guide

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    One tablespoon of Arsenic should get rid of the problem....Permanently! :22:



    :4:
     
  44. Foulwind

    Foulwind Guide

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    My wife has been suffering with IBS and is now cooking bone broth in her slow cooker. She's using beef bones from store. She lightly seasons, and it's not a bad tasting broth!
    Too soon to tell if the broth is helping with her ailment, but we're going to continue with it till she determine one way or the other if the broth is working or not.
    Thanks for the information!
     
  45. gila_dog

    gila_dog BCUSA Friend Bushcraft Friend

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    Please let us know how it goes, ok?
     
  46. GoodOlBoy

    GoodOlBoy Scout

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    I delt with it for years, and it turned out I am allergic to soy in all forms. Now check the labels and see how much pre=packaged food you can buy that doesn't contain soy. Good luck.

    GoodOlBoy
     
  47. WisconsinEric

    WisconsinEric Scout

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    I cut out all soy, corn, and wheat 3yrs ago and I had such great results my Primary Care Doctor decided to try it too. She claimed great results too, and when I asked if she noticed easier breathing and less allergies, she paused to think for a moment, and then confirmed with a smile that she had less breathing issues.

    Bone broths from local organic Grass-Fed(zero soy/corn) Beef Bones are great. I drink about 10 pints of my homemade bone broth per week as of late, and the broth makes my entire body including stomach/gut/joints/bones... everything just feels better.
     
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  48. dirtwheels

    dirtwheels Supporter Supporter

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    I have crohns, and the very best thing I did for that was to find the Specific Carbohydrate Diet, as detailed by Elaine Gotschall in her book "Breaking the Vicious Cycle". After being diagnosed solely due to a ruptured intestine and then taking various drugs to no avail, I became desperate when I shrunk down 129 pounds at 5'11". I found the book and began making the yoghurt and following the arduous diet and am now 185 and cycle on and off the diet as I need. I have helped a few folks with the very tough implementation of this diet and would be more than happy to offer any assistance you would like. Start off by reading the book, goggle SCD diet, there are forums for more information. The SCD diet was developed by a couple of doctors in the 20's who were working with kids with digestive disorders. It has a VERY high success rate for many digestive disorders, and it's also very restrictive and difficult, BUT for me it was worth it hands down. I still make the yoghurt (which grows cultures for 24 hours versus the 4 hours store bought products do) and pay attention to what I eat for the most part and can usually eat what I want. HOWEVER there ARE times when I return to the diet for weeks at a time to get my gut back in order, it just takes much less time than the 1st time. I started the diet around 2000, and stuck to it until my gut stared working better which was about 6-8 months. Did I mention the high success rate? All the best, as a secondary and less arduous alternative try Jordan Rubin's book "The Makers Diet". ANYONE who would like more information on this please feel free to PM me with any questions, anytime.


     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  49. JosephDurham

    JosephDurham Supporter Supporter

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    Nothing helps. It's something I suffer with as did my mother and grandfather. I can eat a pound of cheese and still see the same results. Nothing's works for me. IBS is IBS, it's truly miserable, but better then the alternative in not going at all.
     
  50. Hotdogs2

    Hotdogs2 Tracker

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    I have had issues with the IBS-C variety since i was about 18. With the exception of having my thyroid removed two months ago that triggered an attack I have mostly been ok.
    I found that my diet largely dictates how I feel. When I cut out all soft drinks, gatorade and went to strait water I started to feel a little better. Then I cut out all highly process food and preservatives out and I feel great now and have for the last 8 years that I have started eating that way.
    The best advice I can give you is very simple…IF YOU CANNOT PICK IT OR KILL IT… DONT EAT IT. YMMV
     

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