Just about froze...

Discussion in 'Winter Camping' started by sweet trav, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. sweet trav

    sweet trav Supporter Supporter

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    my butt off...

    Well, basically it was just too uncomfortable...at 15 degrees whatever part of my body was against the ground got too cold...the rest of me was fine...but the cold parts made it just too uncomfortable...I was 4+hrs into it...so what I need to know is will a good sleeping pad fix/help with the issue of cold ground intruding on good sleep?

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    I was in a mountain hardware ultilamina 0* and my boys were both in mss setups...they seemed ok...in fact my oldest didnt want to come in...I had laid out 2 wool blankets on the floor of the tent under our bags.

    Thanks for any help!

    T
     
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  2. KFF

    KFF Supporter Supporter

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    The pad/insulation is key.
    Two blankets aint it. You need insulation and air. Proper air pad, closed cell foam, spruce branches. Enough of one or all as a layer.
     
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  3. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I would say that the 2 blankets underneath the boys was fine because they probably don't weigh enough to compress them too much. We older larger people need more under us. CCF pads are cheap So cheap that buying a double thickess should be on everybodies winter camping list
     
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  4. KFF

    KFF Supporter Supporter

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    I by ccf from a factory, they sell it in sheets 1,2 x2 yd or rolled up
    use 1 1/2" thick sheet everywhere, exept transportable pad. Just cut to size.
    But in the yard had a sheet of it under my tent and works great !
     
  5. leghog

    leghog Scout

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    Yes, apad will do the trick. Check the R value of the mat(s)/pad(s).
     
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  6. leghog

    leghog Scout

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  7. oathkeeper762

    oathkeeper762 Bushbum & PT Wanderer Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    When it’s really cold, what’s between you and the ground is the real game changer. Conductive heat loss through contact with the cold ground can rob you of an otherwise good night’s sleep. For car camping, where weight isn’t an issue, you can use multiple layers of inexpensive pads to accomplish this. These can be bought at discount stores, camping stores, etc... Depending on what you buy and if you’re a hot or cold natured sleeper, you will need to play around and find out what combo keeps you warm. In general, if you end up using a closed cell pad, just make sure your body weight doesn’t overly compress what you have underneath you. You need loft, space, or some dead air space to separate you from the cold ground.

    If you’re going to be backpacking where weight and bulk becomes an issue then inflatable pads with higher R-values may be required, and these are more expensive solutions. YMMV.
     
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  8. GoFeesh

    GoFeesh Scout

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    Check this out - very cool if you are a "do it yourself" person.

     
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  9. cory3087

    cory3087 Scout Bushclass I

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  10. John from Alberta

    John from Alberta Supporter Supporter

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    I had the same problem when I went out in October (it was well below freezing in the mountains). My sleeping pad deflated, and all that was between my sleeping bag and the snow was a basically a blue tarp and two layers of nylon (or whatever those inflatables are made of). It was COLD! I learned my lesson and will now be bringing my CCF pad and using either spruce boughs or possibly an inflatable pad ontop of the CCF. That cold ground just saps the heat right out of you!
     
  11. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Amphibian. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Anything that's gonna be 35 and under (or reported to be so) I'll bring an insulated pad AND a cheapo closed cell foam pad. So groundcloth, tent fabric, closed cell, inflatable, then me and whatever sleeping bag I've got. Therma-rest makes a Z-pad, Z-mat, something like that for maybe thirty or thirty five bucks that's great, with one silver (reflective) side and one darker colored side.
     
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  12. beacon

    beacon Simul justus et peccator Bushclass I

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    In my youth, I thought pads were for cushion. At some point, I finally realized they're for insulation from the ground, which will sap the heat from you quickly when it's cold outside. I've not camped without one since that realization.
     
  13. ANFwoodsman

    ANFwoodsman Supporter Supporter

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    In cold temps I use a cheap ccf pad + reflectix + an inflatable pad with internal insulation.

    I have also used a low camp cot (puts you about 5-6 inches off the floor with ccf + air pad on top of that. I put my jackets and other layers under the cot for increased insulation. Slept like a baby.

    Really limited to pulk camping or close to car camping though due to weight / bulk.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  14. NoBrakesRacing

    NoBrakesRacing Scout

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  15. sweet trav

    sweet trav Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks a ton fellas...Im going to look into a ccf pad AND air matress and give it another go...I’ll post up whatI get and results!
     
  16. sweet trav

    sweet trav Supporter Supporter

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    BTW - Im 6’ 250ish lbs. :)
     
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  17. KFF

    KFF Supporter Supporter

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    The ccf another important function is to protect the air pad from sharp things.
     
  18. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushclass I

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    Neat. Thanks for the link. Now I am subscribed to yet another youtuber. That guy is a hoot. His words have more syllables than Reba McEntires’!
     
  19. Portage_Monster

    Portage_Monster Experiencing Wanderlust Supporter

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    Gotta get insulated from the ground. Its probably more important than the air. I've got a Exped SynMat that's plenty of insulation. I toss a wool blanket over it to protect if from twigs and embers and I'm plenty insulated from the ground.
    IMG_7126.JPG
     
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  20. John from Alberta

    John from Alberta Supporter Supporter

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    This looks pretty great. If I can find some free/cheap foam packing roll I'm definitely going to try this out.
     
  21. GoFeesh

    GoFeesh Scout

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    Let me know how it goes.
     
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  22. GoFeesh

    GoFeesh Scout

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    He is also a member on this forum - goes by the same name. He has some really neat ideas, and as you said - he's just a very personable guy. Definitely has a southern draw.
     
  23. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue —- Roughian #7 -— --- Graybeard -— Supporter Bushclass I

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    I really enjoyed that video and his presentation. I spent quite a few years in the Missouri Ozarks and he sounds like ‘home’. Seems like ‘real people’ to me. Plus he has great ideas.
     
  24. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    There are lots of options available. Double layer bubble wrap is one of them as is the thin foam sold as underlay for engineered flooring. The standby comfort solution many decades ago was a section of open cell foam from a mattress store covered with 2 overlapping plastic rubbish bags help in place with duct tape.
    Gerry had a method of using it that really does work too if the foam is torso length.
    You use an extra large HD sleeping bag stuff sack and roll the foam pad into it, you then stuff your down sleeping bag inside the rolled foam mat.
    It works quite well but you still need to carry and use a CCF pad for insulation under the feet so I always used a full length CCF when on snow.
    More is better so when weight on the back isn't an issue a woollen blanket on top of the airmat/CCF combination is nice and cozy. I use an underquilt with my cots and a full skirt too for maximum warmth, the full length skirt makes all of the space under the cot dead air
     
  25. lopie

    lopie Scout

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    Will a yoga mat substitute well for the ccf part or too thin?
     
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  26. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Heavy usually which makes them hard to carry but I have heard of people using them for car camping
     
  27. Timberdogz

    Timberdogz Supporter Supporter

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    The basic formula most people here are using is a ccf pad, inflatable insulated mattress and possibly a reflectix. i've used these things with good success. If your in an area where it is allowed to harvest spruce boughs, you'll be in heaven on them, they cushion allow air flow and if you put a ccf and inflatable pad on top...your gonna be warm. If spruce boughs are not in your future, I've used piled up tall grass, and or built a raised bed.
     
  28. scottmm2012

    scottmm2012 1 Peter 1:20 Supporter Bushclass I

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    I was going to link this too. Great project for ground sleepers.
     
  29. Bushman5

    Bushman5 Tracker Banned

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    If your driving to the campsite.....just use the hard insulation from home Depot.....3" thick, put your pad on top of that....TOASTY!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  30. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Amphibian. Supporter Bushclass I

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    I've discusssed this back and forth with a bunch of people, most of whom can bend themselves into pretzels and are extremely active and healthy (ie very attentive to what's happening in and around their bodies), and the general consensus is no. Yoga mats are about the same thickness, but it's not the same material. I use one as a knee pad when I canoe, and it absorbs water and holds it for a long time, so it's my thinking that there's a mechanical reason it won't insulate nearly as well as a closed cell foam pad will.
     
  31. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

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    QFR?

    Questionably Friendly Reprobate?
     
  32. billythefish

    billythefish Tracker

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    Always use a pad/sleeping mat. Jungle/arctic always bring one. They not only insulate but can be used as splints for fractures. I've had friends finish a 30 mile run by wrapping their broken leg in a roll mat to finish the commando course in the UK

    Edit: your home looks beautiful! where are you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  33. okcmco

    okcmco Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    I once made a bag out of a double bed sheet. I stuffed it with dead grass and leaves. It was time consuming and took a long time to fill it. It was stuffed full. And it kept me off of the cold ground and kept me warm for a few nights but it compressed and ended up not working after a few days and needed refilled. So it worked but was a hassle.
    We are bushcrafters and we like to use the old ways. But nothing beats tchnology for sleeping warm. I like therms rest pads or Klymit. They are expensive and heavy compared to the simple closed cell foam pads. But not heavy compared to a couple of extra wool blankets. A simple fix I do sometimes is two cheap closed cell pads together. Esp if I'm car camping. It's cheap, warm and does have some cushion effect.
     
  34. Woods Walker

    Woods Walker Rattlesnake Charmer. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Exped Down Mat. The most comfortable and warmest I have used.

    [​IMG]
     
  35. Bryan E.

    Bryan E. Tracker

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    Can you post a link and give some examples of cost please. Sounds very promising.

    Thank you.
     
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  36. JoeJ

    JoeJ Supporter Supporter

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    Here's a couple videos of a couple youngsters just starting out winter camping last year - They filmed their experiences. This is pretty much how some of us learned winter camping - just made up our minds and done it. Pa dropped us off and said he'd be back at 2PM Sunday - enjoy yourselves.

    Main difference between us & them is we were around 14 yoa, no stove and no coffee. We were cold camping and brought chocolate ovaltine instead of coffee and that was because no one in our family hot tented or even knew there was such a thing and none of us boys had acquired a taste for coffee - we were still drinking hot coco.

    We had a heavy paper mill canvas wall tent, heavy winter sleeping bags, a hatchet, axe, small saw and whatever made sense to us at the time. Mistakes, ya lots and then some but by age 16/17 we were cruising sort ta speak.

    This couple did great in my opinion and their attitude was terrific. I enjoyed their home movies - hope you do too.



     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  37. KFF

    KFF Supporter Supporter

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    @Bryan E. Not so promising after you realize the factory is in Finland.
     
  38. oldpinecricker

    oldpinecricker Guide

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    Thermarest full length pad and a good inflatable like an Exped or maybe Klymet is in order. You have a decent bag, you just need those layers between you and the ground.

    We're only an hour away. Can't believe we haven't met up.
     
  39. Midwest.Bushlore

    Midwest.Bushlore Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    @oldpinecricker knows the Panhandle like the back of his hand. Really it's his backyard! There are so many amazing spots in northern Idaho- I really miss it a lot.
     
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  40. aklogcabindream

    aklogcabindream Tracker

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    I use a Coleman air mattress
     

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