Kinda surprised at the base weight tbh, happily.

Discussion in 'Backpacking' started by Juany118, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    Okay was slowly acquiring gear over the last few months. Trying to get a sub 20 lbs base weight combining new with old. I am not planning any thru-hikes by any stretch, just a few 5 day trips, maybe a section hike.

    My struggle was "what do I do when my Kelty Redwing weighs 3lbs 11oz.?

    So I have the following for this time of year (night lows in the high 30's low 40s, days 50's).

    -Tent: Lanshan 2 3f UL
    -Sleep system: REI Lumen 20, Klymit Ultralight V insulated pad, inflateable pillow and a Mountain warehouse polycotton liner
    -clothes bag: long johns, 2 pairs of socks (one for sleeping), spare boxers, extra fleece top.
    -ditty bag: 10,000 mAH charger, cables for phone and watch, toothbrush and paste.
    -50 feet of paracord and carabiner for bear bag.
    -Sawyer squeeze filter system with the two bags
    -trowel and "**it tickets
    -fire kit with lighter, fero rod, fat wood and wax coated cotton pads and Swiss army knife.
    -pack cover.
    -Eddie Bauer "puffy" jacket
    -Columbia rain jacket.
    -Cook system: Esbit cook set with brass alcohol burner and 5oz of Heet (985ml pot, 470ml pan/pot)
    -Write in the rain notebook, 2 pencils, work sharp field sharpener, Opinel #9 and a DIY cook pouch made from windshield sun screen.

    Note I didn't include my primary knife since I will "wear" it. A K-Bar BK-11.

    Base weight? Only 17 lbs. I was a bit surprised tbh, with how heavy the pack was with how I went with the fire starting kit, heavy pack, certain luxury items etc.

    I will likely have to get a different pack at some point though, only because I don't think I have 5 days of food space in this pack with the above load out.
     
  2. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    PS, on the next pack leaning towards the Granite Gear Blaze AC 60 at the moment. If anyone has experience with it the knowledge from that would be appreciated.
     
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  3. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    I was interested to read this... I have a Mystery Ranch Coulee 40. It’s an awesome pack but comes in a bit heavier than your Redwing. And my typical uses match yours.

    I don’t see a canteen or water bottle, compass, or flashlight/headlamp. Phone can be a light and compass... do you use a Sawyer bag to tote water?
     
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  4. BradGad

    BradGad Supporter Supporter

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    Sorry, no help here! Just chiming in to say that if I get another pack it’s going to be a thru-hike capable UL 50... something like this:

    https://sectionhiker.com/elemental-horizons-kalais-xt-backpack-review/
     
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  5. Crusher0032

    Crusher0032 Appalachian Arthfael

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    Really interested in that Lanshan tent. My current tent is 4 lbs 6 oz and that would be a huge weight savings. Been selling stuff off to pay for one for a while, almost there.

    Your pack list looks very similar to my set up, only I'm carrying a Baltoro pack. It's heavy, but very comfortable. That Granite gear looks like a very durable pack compared to some of the other UL options I've seen.

    You might look into swapping out your paracord for technora sold by Bushcraft Outfitters. It's a small weight savings, but the difference in space is surprising. Also, like Brad said, are you only using the Sawyer bags for water? A Smart Water bottle is also light and a little more durable. Sawyer sells a coupling for just a couple dollars that threads one onto the Squeeze and it works really well.

    Looking forward to your trip reports!
     
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  6. Keithturkjr

    Keithturkjr Scout

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    I've got a ULA catalyst that is 75 liters and have owned a redwing 50. You probably dont have enough room for 5 days of food with the redwing. redwing is a cool 3 day pack that's comfortable. Granite gear blaze 60 is a cool pack and I almost bought it instead of the ULA, I cant really say which one I would have liked better since I only got one, but I like what I've got.

    I could probably cram my gear I throw in my 75 liter pack into a 50-60 liter top loader,....but after cramming packs that didn't have enough capacity my whole life I really like having a big ass pack. 75 liter capacity, only 3 pounds and comfy to carry, its good. I usually have about 30 liters of unused space on short easy trips, so I just flop over the collar like a lid kinda. The left over collar doesn't weigh much at all its like maybe an extra 2 ounces that I would consistently rather carry than not have when I'm in the woods with it.

    One thing I can say is that its good to have a pack under 4 lbs for sure. But there are features that are worth the extra weight that a 1.5 lb pack just cant give you. Like airmesh back panel,...that's a feature that is worth its 5 extra ounces in the summer etc.
     
  7. petey091

    petey091 Scout

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    Weigh all three of the knives you are taking and just take the lightest one. From the fire kit drop everything from it but the lighter and fero rod and several cotton rounds. Drop one of the pencils. Add a small first aid kit. On the tent remove all the line lock type things and attach the line with a bowline knot and use a truckers hitch to tension the tent. Saving weight here and there adds up to pounds down the road.
     
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  8. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    If I can remember to bring it, I have a 20oz pack I will show you this weekend. I'll leave it in my car and we can dink with it Sunday after we walk out. Or if you and I arrive around the same time (I'm planning on arriving at 10) you can try it out. It's a GoLite Gust, and is one of my favorite packs, especially for hard canoe trips. HUGE capacity (for puffy layers, food, not having to use compression sacks) and pretty "no-frills". I wish they still made them. Someone apparently dusted off the old GoLite plans for some of their stuff and is re-marketing them, but I forget who. ULA makes some similar designs, but none are that light/simple.
     
  9. petey091

    petey091 Scout

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    My Trail is owned by the people who used to own GoLite. https://mytrailco.com
     
  10. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    The main thing with the fire kit is me being lazy. I pop that between all my kits, backpacking, day hike, base camp/bushcraft etc. and the weight is minimal The main reason for the Swiss army knife in it is while a small one it has a saw (extra striker), cork screw, can opener and bottle opener that are useful for the other kits. The opinel I will likely lose from this kit though.

    The one thing I never compromise on is having a solid fixed blade knife. It's a few extra ounces around my neck which I don't begrudge. I don't think I will ever be UL lol
     
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  11. hlydon

    hlydon Guide

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    Exactly why I struggle going light. I think both of us need to put together kits (fire, etc.) that are solely dedicated for bushcraft or backpacking, not both.
     
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  12. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    I was also considering the ULA Circuit actually. I always worry about the old "if you have the space you will fill it" issue though. So my thought was with the Blaze I also have the optional like you can purchase seperately. This way I have 60 Liters max as a base but if I really needed to, for whatever reason, I can expand it to 67 Liters by adding that lid.

    My original short list included the Crown 2 60 as well but I decided after a bit of research the more rigid frames (even with the added ounces) of the Circuit and Blaze seemed a safer bet. I would have hated to drop $200 and then say "too flexy" as some have said of the Crown.
     
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  13. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    The bags are there as my "dirty bags". I actually bought the full kit that also has the options to hook up to my bladder and even run it as a gravity feed.

    @BradGad, the phone is a Galaxy S-7. I didn't include the water containers because that is so variable depending on my plans. Sometimes it's just rocking 2 Smart water bottles, sometimes my 2 Liter Camelback, sometimes both

    -Headlamp is an Energizer that also has the red light option (forget the model) and spare batteries
    -for backpacking I actually don't bring a traditional compass. I only backpack on flashed trails and between my phone and the apps and the compass function on my watch I feel it adequate to get me back on track when needed.

    I do of course have a compass and practice the aging Army Land Nav skills though.
     
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  14. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    if your base weight is 17-ish lbs, for five days you'll be adding 7.5-9 lbs for food, depending on how water rich the environment is- probably at least a liter (2.2 lbs)- that puts you at 30-ish lbs, that imo puts you out of range of the very lightest packs (most are comfy with 20 lbs and less), put still puts you in range of some of the lighter packs with light frames. with a five day trip- you'll be wanting a minimum of 50 liters and probably better off with 60-ish liters

    there are definitely some packs that would fit that criteria that are in the 2-ish pound range, which almost halves the weight- the ULA Ohm or slightly bigger Circuit would probably fit the bill

    the new(ish) Osprey Levity 60 might be worth looking into as well
     
  15. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    That's it... thanks.
     
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  16. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    I had actually already looked at the Oh. My original short list.

    ULA Ohm
    ULA Circuit
    Granite Gear Crown 2 60
    Granite Gear Blaze AC 60
    ( There is only a couple ounce difference in weight between the Blaze and the Circuit.)

    I ended up shying away from the Ohm and the Crown because I am used to more robust suspension systems (though I think the only difference between the Ohm and Circuit is a removeable aluminum stay.) if anyone has comments on the practical difference between the two though feel free to drop some knowledge :). I also shyed away from the Crown because I can buy an optional lid for the Blaze and gain an extra 7 liters. Also the line lock cord compression of the Blaze looks to give me plenty of ways to "lash" other items to the pack for carry, drying etc.

    I did check the Levity, Exos and Gregory Optic as well. The Levity is a tad out of my preferred budget, the Exos's belt is meh imo. It looks more like it is to stabalize a load vs help support a load's weight and I have read some issues with the Optic's durability in terms of straps and clips in some reviews.

    So, barring getting new information (such as "does the aluminum stay actually make a difference between the Circuit and the Ohm?) IIappear to be ping ponging between the ULA Circuit and the GG Blaze 60
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
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  17. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    the Circuit gives you more volume, which may be of use

    I owned an Ohm and it was very comfortable in the 30-ish range, not sure what the addition of the aluminum stay provides in the way of additional support
     
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  18. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    If I'm not mistaken the Redwing is a 50L pack is it not? I can't see not having space for food for 5 days unless the food you are going with is not very compact or you aren't repackaging items.

    I've got a 45L pack but the Larger size which is supposed to be 50L. It's got plenty of room for food once all of my other stuff is loaded up. Are you rolling your air mattress? I just fold mine and put it along the back of the pack. That way it takes up very little pack space. You could also downsize the pot quite a bit a 650-750 should be plenty and will save space. Also ditch extra clothes that aren't needed and or the bag liner. I don't think 3 lbs 12oz is too hurtful.

    I'd also consider swapping the Paracord for 2mm Dyneema line. You'll wonder why you didn't do so sooner.
     
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  19. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    The Lanshan 2 worked out real well this summer, not just for me but for others. I brought it along when friends accompanied my family on a couple car camping trips. I got mine off AliExpress. Cost almost half of what you see on Amazon, even with the shipping, so that's something to consider. Just don't forget it's a trekking pole tent (I don't know if they sell separate poles for it.)

    Thanks for the advice on the cordage btw. I was thinking about getting this https://atwoodrope.com/collections/micro-cord/products/1-18mm-tan but I will definitely give the technora a look too.
     
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  20. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    Thanks for the input!

    Yes it is 50 liters (I think technically 51 actually)

    The big thing with the pack taking up space is my sleeping bag. It is just over 2lbs in weight and it doesn't pack small, even with a compression bag since it's synthetic. Just didn't have the money to get a down bag of equal quality at the moment.

    The extra clothes are stuff that is needed atm. PA weather/temps have as much as a 20 degree range between day and night this time of year, especially once you get up in elevation. So you add in the puffy jacket, long johns and thicker socks, and a long sleeve fleece shirt, all of which I wouldn't take in warmer weather. I could of course lash the sleeping bag, or tent, under the pack but I want to avoid that.

    As for the food I don't repackage my knorr sides because I use the package to cook. Just pour in boiling water, insert in cook pouch, wait 10 and eat. Also hard to repackage my tuna and pouch chicken without risking food poisoning. I suppose I could change my diet but I like this one because of the low cost, and it tasty.

    As for the dyneema thought of that, then found this stuff https://atwoodrope.com/collections/micro-cord/products/1-18mm-tan

    Strong enough for bear bags and it's actually lighter. Just haven't gotten it yet. Oh and the reason for the pot. Everything nests inside, including the 5 oz bottle of HEET. Also, if I ditch the alcohol stove, my MSR pocket rocket 2 and a fuel canister can nest inside, so while its large, other items aren't taking up space.

    The one issue I see with the Kelty is that the main compartment isnt as big as one may think. It has the two large side pouches, the open top front stuff pouch, a smaller organizing pouch, a top pouch AND water bottle pouches. That's why my finalists for a new pack are both basically bucket packs all the organization in the pack is actually, imo, making for a less efficient pack for longer trips

    Note: if it was summer I suspect I would have adequate room because I could go far lighter and compact in terms of the spare clothing. Gotta love when you go from 50 something to 30 something when the sun goes down.

    I could get more packable colder weather clothing (the puffy packs small but others pack MUCH smaller) and a down bag that packs a lot smaller but I just don't have the cash. The two together would easily cost more than a new pack, according to my research
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
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  21. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    You've definitely done some thinking. I just have a cheap puffy from AliExpress. It works, and compresses fairly well. For the temps you describe I'll just bring that, a fleece beaine, and some long socks for sleep. Sounds like your bag might be underrated if it needs a liner and clothes to get down to 30°. Of course we are all different as well. I personally seem to produce a lot of heat. I'm the guy in shorts and a tee hiking in 40° weather trying to figure out how folks hike in jackets, hats and long pants.

    If you do want to consider looking at a down bag to cut on bulk, extra items and weight I'd consider the Hammock Gear Econ line or Underground Quilts Bandit. For what you are getting they are pretty darn cheap. I wish I'd just gone with a quilt in the first place. I had to save my pennies for quite a while to get my quilt, but it should last me the rest of my life so I see it as an investment in my hobby.

    The Dyneema or UHMWPE isn't just about weight. The line works extremely well at sliding over tree branches as it is very slick. It's also very durable meaning it will last. I don't know about you but I tore up the paracord I had been using previous dragging a particularly heavy load over a rather rough branch.

    I hear you on the pack. Mine is just one big compartment with a lid pouch and hip belt pockets. The only other storage is a mesh net on the lower half for water bottles and easy access. I keep my water filter in there generally. I definitely wouldn't want compartments.
     
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  22. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    I tend to obsess... Errr "think a lot" about stuff lol.

    As for the bag it's POSSIBLE I might not need the long johns to 30. I have never actually used this bag (just got it last week, but got good reviews from a friend of mine who is a project manager at REI. So I will admit those are more about "what if I am a colder sleeper than I think?" The liner btw is actually more about keeping the bag clean. Let the liner suck up my body oils vs the bag itself since it can be more easily washed and dried, so you are right, for more practical field purposes it can be set aside.

    As for the Paracord, I agree with it abraiding. My time in the army we used that crap for everything. Luckily we had an unlimited supply ;). That's why I ordered the cord I linked above only moments ago. My soon to be mother-in-law used it to fix a rudder cable on her kyak a few years ago and it's still holding up. It came to mind that since they clearly undergo friction as part of a mechanical system the cordage should work well for a bear bag as well. At $5 for a 125 ft that weighs only 2 ounces at 100 lbs test? If it works out, I think I have my new "go-to" cordage because 100 lbs is good for most of my applications. I will likely due a long term review on the forums here at some point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
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  23. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    I am planning on hitting the parking area around 11 (depends on arrival of babysitter since the fiancee will be at work). That said, don't sweat it. I did a lot of research on the new company's packs a few months ago and decided they aren't for me due to the suspension system and my experience with similar ones I own.

    See ya Saturday!
     
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  24. Keithturkjr

    Keithturkjr Scout

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    That 20 oz pack could be a brown paper grocery bag as far as Im concerned, the idea that people are ya'll are hitting the woods together though is super cool. Its fun to jump around on forums and stuff when we can't be in the woods and see new stuff, but actually getting out there and camping with people you've been talking to on the forums is probably one of the best ways we can hope to use the forum. My old campfire buddy doesn't come on these forums much, but I can imagine having his company in the forum would also be cool.
    Anyhow, ya'll have fun.
     
  25. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    I've made a lot of friends through this forum... and i don't mean those i just PM or have on-line conversations with... i mean the ones I've physically personally met and camped with, in come cases now for years... 7 or 8 in LA, another half dozen from east TX, and a few in AL and TN, and now MD, PA, and NJ... amazing place, BCUSA is.
     
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  26. Vapour

    Vapour Tracker

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    Massdrop sells a version on the crown 2 for $120--check that out. I love my blaze and have used it for backpacking and hunting for 4 years now. I upgraded to a lighter pack as my weight dropped, but still love the blaze for heavier days. FYI granite gear has an updated blaze coming out in the winter/spring so either wait for the new one (better frame, lid, and belt pockets) or grab an old one when they get closed out.
     
  27. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    I just tried to get the Massdrop one. They sold out of regulars :(. I was thinking about doing the Blaze closeout thing you mentioned.

    What I am likely to do is this. Order both to be delivered to my local REI. Have them load both with 30lbs (my Max load for 5 days in shoulder season) and see how they carry. If the Crown 2 feels good then I would go with that, lighter and cheaper. At $119.00 I figured the Massdrop price was worth "experimenting" with, $199.00 not so much.
     
  28. Vapour

    Vapour Tracker

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    Huh, sorry I didn't realize they ran out of regulars. They rotate it every day at noon, but if they don't have them it'll probably be a while before they get more in stock. The older crown 60 just never fit me as well as the blaze. They new blaze looks nice and will come with a top lid and hipbelt pockets. I added those in to mine, but I think I'll miss the flexibility of ththee webbing on the current version. I used to attach various tek loks or a gun bearer when hunting with it.
     
  29. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    Oh and I added the things I forgot to have as part of my base weight. Water bottles (empty), food bag, rock bag (for hanging) and my wool hat and neck gaiter (since it is time for the 30's. I really need a new pack to hit a 17 lbs base weight. (i also think I miss measured, I was using a bathroom scale and just taking the pack on and off, I don't have a proper hanging scale yet.) Considering that I also need another 5-10 liters of space there won't be a "cheap" fix.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  30. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    The only thing I don't like about the new Blaze is the increase in cost, the MSRP is almost $280.00. When I get to a price that high I can spend another 20 bucks and get a Zpacks Arc Haul. So with the increase in weight as well along with the price I wonder if the are putting the new pack in a no man's land of sorts in terms of the market.
     
  31. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    @Juany118 have you checked out this thread in the Ultralight Bushcrafters subfourm?

    Shouldn't be too hard to get your base down to 15 or so without spending a fortune. You might even find you don't need the extra 10 litters or so of space.

    For starters you should weigh each item on a kitchen scale vs a bathroom scale all at once. Sounds silly and I'm sure you've heard it before, but it's really the way to go if you are trying to keep your pack weight down. I'll tell you that I personally enjoy having a lighter pack. Didn't think my base weight would ever be under 10lbs but at the end of the day it really wasn't that much effort, or as expensive as expected.
     
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  32. Vapour

    Vapour Tracker

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    Fair, but street price with usual coupons will be 230ish and it will probably better made and warranted than zpacks. Not that a blaze is really the pack you need unless you're hauling big loads. The current gg packs (with adjustable frames) fit ME really well. Currently using a Hanchor Marl which is a very strange pack to pick up, but it works well for me.
     
  33. Chorazin

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    I bought a Crown2 last week from Backcounty Edge, they have a thing where if you sign up for their newsletter you get a code of 20% off one item, which got me it for $160. I'm looking forward to using it this weekend for an overnighter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  34. Juany118

    Juany118 Tracker

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    My choice became even more complicated now lol. On a trip along the AT this weekend with some other forum members I saw one of them was carrying the SMD Fusion pack. Now the 50 and 65 are definitely just "light" vs "ultralight" (each weighs around 3 lbs but still lighter than the Kelly) but upon review it's still an attractive choice. For a host of reasons.
     
  35. SideshowRaheem

    SideshowRaheem Tracker

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    I purchased a Blaze AC 60 last year and used it on a 7 day trip in Yellowstone. Its a great pack that I can heartily recommend. I was sort of in the same boat as you. I wanted something that could handle more of a mid-weight load while not being stupid heavy if I only had < 20 pounds packed.

    Its held up well in the year I've had. My favorite part has to be the huge front stuff stretchy packet and the line loc system that lets me attach random crap to it. Its also extremely comfortable. For the price its hard to beat if you get it on sale somewhere.
     
    Juany118 likes this.

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