knee pads?

Discussion in 'Paddling' started by chansta, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. chansta

    chansta keeper of the flame Supporter

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    Question 1239283928

    I'd like to spend more time paddling in the kneeling position. The last time I went, it was pretty uncomfortable. What type of materials have you all used for temporary knee pads? This would need to be something I can put in and take out as I'm mostly renting/borrowing boats for right now.

    Some type of foam pads?
     
  2. chndlr04

    chndlr04 roughian #2 Supporter

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    Gardening knee pads
     
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  3. leghog

    leghog Guide

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    Once you get your own boat, glue pads/padding to the hull's interior vs wearing pads. You can buy specialty pads for that purpose or just make your own from closed cell foam.
     
  4. Redbearcat7

    Redbearcat7 Scout

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    I use a tree stand pad. A very cheap one about a half inch thick. When not in use for the knees, sit on it.
     
  5. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    Kick board for new swimmers .
     
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  6. cbrianroll

    cbrianroll Professional Tinkerer Supporter

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    Alot of kneeling is bad, especially if your rotating too. I was a concrete finisher....my knees are not awesome lol. I'm comfortable for a bit on a 2 or 3 stage pad system.(hard foam, softer foam, jelly top.)
     
  7. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    I have used a couple options.

    First off, knee pads themselves. Yeah, I have a pair of Propper pants with some thing neoprene foam pads in the knees. I like them a lot, just to wear in the woods anyway, in case i need to 'take a knee' to do something. Paddling is another good reason.

    Kneeling pads. I built a stitch and glue canoe in LA and once i got my kneeling thwart and pads in the right place after a couple trips, I glued in a strip of that 3/8" blue foam camping pad where i needed it. Pretty sure i did it two layers thick, or 3/4", but can't remember. I think this is the best solution when you own your own boat.

    Removable kneeling pads. Here, I'll answer with "anything I've ever used to kneel on":
    • life jacket,
    • seat cushion,
    • 1-4 stacked "sit pads" (3/8" green or blue camping pads, cut roughly 9-12" wide x 14-18" long, found in every one of my packs)
    • Fitness matting,
    • Gardening kneeling pad (probably the best single-use item)
    • jacket/clothing
    I have an additional obstacle in my wood canvas canoes because of the ribbed flooring, which makes it that much more difficult to kneel comfortably... I am experimenting with a few options, mostly custom cut 3/8" camping foam pads to the right length/width/thickness. I'm also trying to figure out a way to use them as padding for my portage yoke (though my tumpline experiments are making it harder and harder to think of going back to a solid crossbar as any part of a portage system.) So the jury's still out in my case.

    For now, couple foam pads or gardening pad oughta do you.
     
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  8. WRHC TopGun

    WRHC TopGun Supporter Supporter

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    @chansta good advice from others on the foam gardening pad. Check out Dollar Tree. I bough a couple of foam gardening pads there last year for $1 each.
     
  9. mjh

    mjh Supporter Supporter

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    After using various home made and alternatives I eventually sprung for 2 of these.
    https://www.haywardoutfitters.com/product/wenonah-kneeling-pad-32-12/



    WENON-KNEELING-PAD.jpg

    KNEELING-PAD-IN-USE-150x150.jpg
    I have some paracord and hook through the grommet to attach around thwart or seat so if we tip we don't loose them.

    They have a non slip texture on the bottom. That's part of why I eventually bought them. Some of my other choices slipped around more than I liked.

    Also have at least 3 different canoes to use them in and didn't want to glue down more permanent need pads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
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  10. Scotchmon

    Scotchmon Supporter Supporter

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    I use closed cell foam sleeping pads from Wally World. First cut a piece long enough to provide padding for your feet while in the kneeling position. Then crosscut another piece of the pad long enough to wrap up a couple inches each side, towards the gunnels. These two pieces form a T when doubled up. The remainder of the pad is cut to length to double the rest of the pad under your legs and feet.
    Once the pieces are cut I then glue them with 3M spray adhesive.
    Only the last few inches of the cross hull piece is not doubled.
    On the one pictured I added a fastec buckle. The other half of the buckle is glued to the hull with a vinyl pad.

    I’ve used the same pad out of the boat as a sleep pad on canoe camps. At 1/2” thick it’s comfy both on the knees, and on the back. 269E66E0-21F4-4778-9354-5BBF79DD5D05.jpeg
     
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  11. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    I like volleyball knee pads.
     
  12. jpoe88

    jpoe88 Supporter Supporter

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    Question.

    In scouting, we paddled from kneeling position. Hated it.

    Is there really an advantage other than lower COG? Re-newb to canoes.
     
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  13. Bad Little Falls

    Bad Little Falls Guide

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    COG is the big reason. but then I really stand up far more than I kneel in my canoe. If something goes wrong I quickly kneel, I suppose it could be called falling, though.
     
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  14. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    COG might be the reason for some, but it's not the main reason for most. But first, we need to define what we mean by "kneeling". We often use that term to describe what is actually not just kneeling, but sitting on the front edge of the seat with knees on the floor. This gives you three-point contact with the canoe for better control, and allows more reach and flexibility for paddling.
     
  15. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    My preferred kneeling pad is 1/2" neoprene, glued to the floor. But you can get by cheap for experimenting with a piece of yoga mat from wally world.
     
  16. jpoe88

    jpoe88 Supporter Supporter

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    This makes much more sense to me, and I'll be giving this a go myself.
     
  17. chansta

    chansta keeper of the flame Supporter

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    I thought kneeling was also used to lean towards the paddling side where power strokes and corrective strokes occur to get better contact with the water.

    For my own education, does it not also take the hull slightly out of the water, thereby helping with wind resistance and overall maneuverability?
     
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  18. Luchtaine

    Luchtaine MOA #22 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I Bushclass Instructor

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    Yes, but this varies from boat to boat. For example, my Old Town Explorer is pretty wide with a flat bottom so “leaning” it isn’t such an easy thing. Boats with more hull contour do it more efficiently.
     
  19. Nathan H

    Nathan H Tracker

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    I used a piece of Closed Cell Foam Mat like Scotchmon

    It is also mutipurpose as it can be used as a sitting mat on land, waftting air into your fire to help get it going, a tray for carrying things
     
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  20. Bad Little Falls

    Bad Little Falls Guide

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    You can kneel or then you could Kneel in a canoe.
     
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  21. Scotchmon

    Scotchmon Supporter Supporter

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    Karen Wright... one of the best freestylers ever!
     
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  22. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    It can be. As shown by Ms. Knight above, kneeling with knees together in one chine heels the canoe and gets the paddler closer to the water. This does a couple of things. It gets the paddler closer to the water and it also shortens and narrows the waterline of the boat - causing it to respond more like a smaller canoe. What it doesn't do though, is help with wind resistance. Heeling the canoe reduces resistance in the water, but presents more surface to the wind.

    Of course, with a significant load, kneeling in this position doesn't heel the boat as much, but still gets the paddler closer to the water, which makes many strokes easuer - IF the canoe has good secondary stability.

    BTW, it's not necessary or desirable for the paddler to lean to the side (most of the time). It's the boat that does the leaning, while the paddler stays vertical - except for certain moves which are normally not necessary. And it isn't always necessary to be kneeling to heel the canoe. That can also be done from the seat, or even standing.

    "Kneeling" with the butt against or on the front edge of the seat for better stabioity and control is usually done with knees spread apart. In a solo properly sized for best performance, the knees will be each against their respective chine. This is also the case for some tandem paddlers.
     
  23. HeadyBrew

    HeadyBrew Fully vaccinated Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I find my back seems to like the kneeling position, while my knees prefer the sitting position. So I alternate between the two when on the water for significant periods of time.

    Used a cut up yoga mat for a while that was cut longer so it would sort of wedge under the gunnels and wrap the sides/bottom of the canoe and stayed in place pretty well. Problem was that wasn’t usually enough to keep it in while carrying it upside down to portage. So I bought some 1/2 inch foam that had adhesive on one side. Now it stays put right side up or upside down. I think I found it on amazon for pretty cheap.
     
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  24. chansta

    chansta keeper of the flame Supporter

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    Great tip!
     
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  25. leghog

    leghog Guide

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    It also effectively increases the hull's rocker making it more maneuverable.
     
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  26. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Part of the same thing. Increased rocker makes a boat act like it's shorter and thus more maneuverable. Increasing it by edging the boat also makes it narrower and more responsive. All part of the same package. But all that unused portion of the hull has to go somewhere - so it goes into the air, where wind has its way. If you cut off all that excess hull permanently, what you would have left is a smaller canoe that is more responsive and maneuverable as a solo. But then, it would be a dedicated solo with little room for a partner. No free lunch. ;)
     
  27. chansta

    chansta keeper of the flame Supporter

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    Would a solo be much more difficult to track with a single bladed paddle than a longer tandem?
     
  28. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Maybe - maybe not. Depends on the boats you're comparing. Some are hard tracking hulls and some are not - applies to both solos and tandems.
     
  29. Bad Little Falls

    Bad Little Falls Guide

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    I have always pictured center of gravity,cog, like this, anytime you can put more body weight on the bottom of the boat the more stable it will be. So if your rear end is plopped on the seat and your feet are on the floor of the boat most of your weight is resting on the rails, the upper most part of the boat. Any way you get more weight on the bottom of the boat will make it more stable. So kneeling with your rear end resting on the set is half way there to fully off the seat and some form of contact with the bottom of the boat. So standing is very much full contact and weight on the bottom of the boat..... equals stable boat. The rest is just balance. Stand up on the rails, one foot on one rail and the other on the other.... more hard to balance. Hence my thoughts that COG is the first and most important aspect to a stable craft. Second would be paddle related benefits. A fully loaded canoe is easier to stand in than an empty boat.
     
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  30. chansta

    chansta keeper of the flame Supporter

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    So what should I look for in hull design for good tracking?
     
  31. leghog

    leghog Guide

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    Sharp bow, slim beam and low rocker. That's why I bought this boat 21 years ago.

    [​IMG]
     
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  32. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Little or no rocker, relatively narrow width (36" or less for tandem; 30" or less for solo), shallow arch or V bottom, and close to plumb stems help. You may not find all of those attributes in one canoe, but they all help tracking. The Old Town Penobscot and Mad River Malicite are examples of pretty good tracking tandems that still turn reasonably well. The Dagger Sojourn is a hard tracking solo. Study those shapes, and you will know what to look for. Remember though, while those canoes are easier to paddle straight than others of similar length, tracking is ultimately a function of the paddler.
     
  33. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Yeah, Leghog posted a good example while I was typing. BTW, if you find a Penobscot 15 in decent shape, you probably want to grab it. If you don't like it, probably someone close to you will.
     

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