Knife abuse! Pushing blades past their limit

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by Shadow X, Jun 9, 2018.

?

Do people expect to much from knives

  1. Yes! Absolutely!

    49 vote(s)
    44.5%
  2. No! A knife should be able to do ANYTHING!

    4 vote(s)
    3.6%
  3. Potato

    57 vote(s)
    51.8%
  1. Shadow X

    Shadow X Tracker

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    So, this is a bit of a pet peeve, but I promise, I’ll try REAL hard not to rant.

    I love knives. Have every since I was a kid. I watch YouTube videos all the time, trying to keep up with the latest knives, see which ones are good, and which ones to avoid. I’ve been seeing more and more of these “destruction tests.” Now, some of them are done well: they push the knives just a bit past their designed limit, and it gives you a good idea of how reliable the knife will be, should you find youself in a pinch, and need to rely solely on your blade to save your butt.

    HOWEVER: I’m seeing a disturbing trend. People are taking (a Mora, let’s say) and using a baseball bat to pound it through a dense log that is almost as wide as the blade is long. They pound and pound and pound, until the blade eventually comes loose from the handle, or breaks, etc.

    Now, to me, this is just silly. There are so many other options, even in a survival situation, where you could push your knife a bit, but not to the point it will fail, and still stay alive/get the job done. But more and more people seem to be yelling “That knife is cheap! It failed! I tried to hammer it through a cinder block and it broke! Don’t buy it!”

    Is it just me, or are an increasing number of people starting to expect WAAAAYYYY too much out of their knives? I understand to a point. We all want a knife that is durable, and can take a bit of punishment. But, it seems to be getting out of hand. Any thoughts?
     
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  2. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Bushmaster

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    I believe this is the result of the survival knife mentality of being able to take a knife into the woods to conquer the woods or what if I loose everything but the knife on my belt instead of taking a tool set into the woods like Nessmuk and Kephart did.
     
  3. M.Hatfield

    M.Hatfield Midnight Joker Supporter

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    My thought is a bit self serving on the topic:

    The less often I abuse knives and instead, use them for their intended purposes..... The more variety of knives/tools I can justify owning and keeping! :D
     
  4. Shadow X

    Shadow X Tracker

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    LOL....I get it. But, honestly, if that situation ever happened, I think 99 out of 100 people would be up the creek, even skilled survival experts. Even then, you could fashion wedges out of wood to help you split, basic stone tools. Yeah, it takes a bit more knowledge, and I understand not everyone has that ability, but it seems like people these days are expecting way to much from a lot of products. Maybe I’m just getting old and turning into a curmudgeon. LOL DARN KIDS THESE DAYS!
     
  5. Winterhorse

    Winterhorse Supporter Supporter

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    Potato.
    Non of the above.
    Zombie apocalypse not withstanding there are tons of knives that will get it done. People who abuse knives to death and then say they are sub-standard are the people who will never use the knife for it’s intended purpose anyway.
    My take on that is that they are not bushcrafters with enough experience to use the tool as it should be efficiently used.
    I pay them little attention.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
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  6. tashunka witko

    tashunka witko Scout

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    I think im getting old and hating on the same stuff all the time.
     
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  7. Shadow X

    Shadow X Tracker

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    Well, if you’re just gonna be all responsible, level-headed and logical about it......lol
     
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  8. Shadow X

    Shadow X Tracker

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    Kids these days don’t understand anything! I used to have to walk 25 miles to school in the snow.....uphill....both ways!
     
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  9. Hoof

    Hoof Former Genius Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I don't believe any of them are testing the knife, they're just looking for the clicks/views. Everyone who depends on their knife knows how to use it, and can even push the limits at times.
     
  10. mjh

    mjh Supporter Supporter

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    Yep! Someone wants to break their knife, film the process, put on the world wide web, I've got better things to do....
     
  11. mcblade

    mcblade Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    I saw an example at the blade show last weekend, it had been bent 90* and back there were no cracks, but it looked like a piece of spegetti. It did not fail but why put your knife to that kind of stress if you don't have to. If you need an axe buy an axe.
     
  12. mjh

    mjh Supporter Supporter

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    I voted potato.....don't want to get to baked over lots of not too much....
     
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  13. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    In chasing after click /audience those attention mongers show just how little knowledge, skill or judgement they have. Their opinions are worthless, their "tests" worthless and misleading.
    They want an audience and acclaim. Do not give it to them. Ignore their worthless pandering and yapping, and you will soon find 98% of you tube not worth your time. JMO/YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  14. Muleman77

    Muleman77 Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    Yep.

    I ignore most of the popular bushcraft/knife/axe stuff on youtube or TV for just these reasons. Too many idiots or posers, or both.
     
  15. Shadow X

    Shadow X Tracker

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    Agreed: they just want views. Will avoid.
     
  16. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    in yer dreams!
     
  17. City Bushcrafter

    City Bushcrafter Hooah!

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  18. Leshy_apprentice

    Leshy_apprentice Supporter Supporter

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    I think it is more about them trying to be "extreme" so they can get more youtube views, more than about actually testing a knife in a realistic, useful way. As I understand it, the more clicks they get, the more advertising, and the more youtube pays them.

    That said, I don't follow them as closely as you do, but I do know that when I'm researching knives or other tools there is still lots of useful content I find on YouTube. There are a few of the "big name" YouTube people I've watched over the years and who seem to be grounded in their presentation. But I also find a great deal of value in amatuer reviews from Joe Blow who is just sharing a little about pros and cons of a new tool he likes/dislikes, or a trusty old tool that has served him well. I've seen grounded reviews like that that have warned me about potential weak points or failures of tools I was considering.

    That said, the useful videos I'm talking about are people showing unexpected tool failure from normal use, and that feedback is helpful to other consumers as well as manufacturers as it can identify defects or weak points to be improved. I agree with you 100% about the silly "extreme testing" (tool abuse) failures. If I see a video going that way, I turn it off. Most anything will break eventually if you are determined to break it. I don't think the people you are talking about have high expectations of the tool...I think they're just breaking it for the sake of breaking it to attract more youtube views.
     
  19. CSM1970

    CSM1970 Guide

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    The abuse videos are useless but still better than “unboxing” videos. I lost interest in show-and-tell rubbish in grade school. I will admit to watching Nick Shabaz though. He seems to have some insights worth listening to.
     
  20. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I know how to use a knife properly, but I will push it somewhat should the need arise. Just to see if it will do it, no way. joe
     
  21. RavenLoon

    RavenLoon axology student Supporter

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    I wonder at the abuse. I think in a real survival situation, I would tend to be super careful with my knife so not to lose or break it, or cut myself.
     
  22. Crooked Penguin

    Crooked Penguin Scout

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    I voted potato, but I actually wanted french fries.
     
  23. J. Pierce

    J. Pierce Perpetually Off Topic, Sorry. Supporter

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    I voted potato.

    Because never before in my entire life has potato been one if my electoral choices.
    I am now complete, I can die happy.
     
  24. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Potato.
    I will say the video of those Dutch guys abusing the Mora Robust was fun to watch.
     
  25. bluecow

    bluecow Scout

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    ^^^^the best answer to this or any other thread i'v seen^^^^^:dblthumb:
    this was not easy to answer. I'm hard on my knives. im thinking pocket knife for that is what you will find on me 95-99% of the time. at any given time my knife will have to cut lead or tin flashing, cooper wire, asphalt shingles, clean fish, old battery cables, spread mustard, honey............. on the other hand a knife is not a Axe, Pry bar, hammer,..............
     
  26. badglide9705

    badglide9705 Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    We don't expect too much out of our knives, we expect too much out of youtube!!!
     
  27. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    deep down i just feel that this is just a twist on the batoning issue, so just to be on the safe side of the potato I need to be sure that my baton is the biggest of'em'all

    . .
    IMG_2288.JPG

    y'all please let me know if you see something bigger out there I can't be underbatooned
     
  28. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    I've used some of those videos to prove that the concept of full exposed tangs being superior is a myth with zero truth to it. People can do whatever they want with their knives. I believe in personal property and freedom and so if they want to smash their knife with a sledgehammer into a cinder block then that's their choice. Personally I don't believe in abusing my knives to that level. I'll use them hard like I would any tool, but generally for cutting tasks which is what they were designed for. I've found that most knives are excessively overbuilt and generally inefficient for most tasks that one needs a knife for. A lot of this is probably due to the mentality of needing a knife that can hold up to this type of abuse that is above and beyond general reality. But if that's what people are buying then that's what manufacturers and blade smiths will produce.
     
  29. Hoof

    Hoof Former Genius Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I've been carrying a brick in my Alice ever since you taught me that was the best baton.
     
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  30. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I wish I could like this more than once...well said!
     
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  31. J. Pierce

    J. Pierce Perpetually Off Topic, Sorry. Supporter

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    I think some of this even precedes "survival" knives.

    Some blame can go on the founders of the American Bladesmith Society, and their whole testing procedure. Differential hardening, and the whole 90 degree bend thing, or whatever it is that they require.
     
  32. CSM1970

    CSM1970 Guide

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    Old Machinists Story: Guy goes to the tool crib and asks for a wrench. The attendant asks "what size?" He answers "Don't make no difference, I'm gonna use it for a hammer anyway". Use the right tool for the job.
     
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  33. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    Personally I'm disappointed, I honestly thought the question posed in the opening post was asking a serious question, not one leading into a rant of U-tube knife destruction tests, there's nothing on God's green earth that can't be broken or destroyed, so what's to prove, IMHO one has to be a lonely person to either make or watch those types of videos.
    I think most experienced woodsmen know what to expect from their knives and other cutting tools, I'm one of those that doesn't abuse his tools, but I do expect a lot out of them, so I spend what it takes to buy knives, axes, and saws, from reputable custom and semi custom makers in models that I'm sure will hold up to the tasks that I require them to do.
    I have a few production knives from Mora and Condor that I expect less from than I do from my better quality knives and I'm not usually disappointed.

    While it might piss off some here, If you use inexpensive Mora, Condor, or other brand of cheap knives, I wouldn't bet my life on them in a survival situation like you can with one made by AS, Gossman, Beck, Bark River or other quality maker, and you aren't going to get the same quality out of a Collin's axe that you get with a Gransfors Bruks, If you expect quality in your tools you have to invest in quality.
     
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  34. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    I think it depends upon what you are doing, for bushcraft thin knives work, thick knives work, knives work. Mostly about how you bushcraft. Indians use kukri, latins use machete, we use whatever the hell we want because we can! It all boils down to there are knives to suite every need. I need a knife that can pry and do heavy cutting and not have fear of breaking for my work. I dont do it too often but there is a reason the old timers carried chisels in their boots in my profession... the knives of the day wouldnt hold up to it.

    As far as hidden vs full tang or rat tang vs full tang... there are a lot of crap knives out there which is how they got a bad rep. Ive broken a few. Get quality brands and use the knife within it's functional parameters. I wouldnt use a mora 1-0 for my work knife... it's just not going to hold up over time. Metal fatigue is a pita in that manner.
     
  35. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    Matt Paul once posted a video of him testing one of his knives (MP Knives).

    He clamped the blade in a vise, put a steel pipe over the remaining 3/4 of the blade, then began putting his weight on the pipe.

    The blade bent past 90°. When he eased off the pressure, the blade returned to almost 0°. Looking at the video, I'm guessing that there was a residual bend of 3-4° on the blade.

    It's why I own two of Matt's knives. Besides being functional, I know that he tests his work well beyond anything I could do to them.

    Like others have said, I treat my knives within the boundaries of what a knife should be expected to do. No abuse, just use.

    Steve
     
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  36. S.Gossman

    S.Gossman Guide Vendor Supporter

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    There are plenty of idiots on you tube using knives the WRONG way just to get attention. Makers and knife companies do these extreme tests/testing for quality control. Like I've said many times, I do it so you don't have to. Buy the best made knife you can afford and use it for what it was made for and you'll never have to worry about it.
    Scott
     
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  37. PMSteve

    PMSteve Old Timey Outdoorsman Supporter

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    ^^^ This is why I like to buy quality knives from quality makers.

    I don't have to worry about whether or not the blade will withstand heavy use in the field.

    Buck knives used to have their logo showing their knife being pounded into a railroad spike with a hammer. It's what they were originally famous for. I don't know if this is still part of their logo. I hope so.

    Their (Buck) heat treating was done by Paul Bos. The guy was a genius when it came to heat treating methods. I understand that he's since passed. Many Buck knives were stamped with a few flames over the name Bos. If you have one, it's a keeper

    Steve.
     
  38. crewhead05

    crewhead05 caffeine, nicotine, knives and nature. Lifetime Supporter Supporter

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    I just want a knife that will baton, an axe that will shave, and a waterproof shell that will actuallly “breath” more than i sweat. Oh and a lightsaber.
     
  39. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    Here is my take an aspiring knife maker.

    I want to make knives that will NEVER fail the people who buy them from me.

    I don't care if that means sticking it into a crack in a cliff face to be able to climb up, hammering it into a tree to use as a step, beating it through a chain with a rock, chopping down trees to make a shelter and fire or hacking through a car to self rescue or rescue someone else. I want to make a knife will survive.

    No obviously if you set out with the INTENT to destroy, you'd be able to. But I want to make knives that work well and will survive anything asked of them.
     
  40. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Your disdain and subsequent disrespect to many members who utilize these tools is and has been noted.
    Good day to you sir.
     
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  41. anrkst6973

    anrkst6973 Scout

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    You tube is a resource, some of it good, some not so much. A person's style or type of video is of no concern. If It's not useful or applicable I'm free not to watch it. Yes?
    That being said, Excactly how many generations have Mora's been made? Or When was Condor founded? If these were not quality products, completely suitable for harsh conditions, then these company's would have vanished long long before I was on the earth. :)
     
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  42. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I personally under stand most metals, so I don't expect more out of a knife than it's design .
    If I do , i have already considered the cost of the need at hand and the worth of the tool .
     
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  43. IzaWildman

    IzaWildman Grey Dog Supporter

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    Dang it Bobby, you made me laugh out loud.
     
  44. JC1

    JC1 Guide

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    I was batoning with my Turley the other day and gave a good whack only to split it immediately which sent my blade into a stone and resulted in some small chips :eek:. :mad:

    Not abuse but it did hurt for a little while, now I'm over it, no it still hurts :17:
     
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  45. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    I have no idea where you get a note of distain or disrespect from my post as none was intended or suggested, I will be only too happy to go over my post with you in detail, you point out where I showed distain or voiced disrespect and I'll explain your misunderstanding.

    I did expect that someone would be butt hurt and said so over the insinuation that Mora and Condor knives were cheap (inexpensive), lower quality than most custom and semi custom knives, and not as reliable as higher quality more expensive knives, and it's the truth, I have a Mora classic that I modified the handle on and it's been a good camp/utility knife, I have a couple of Condors, a Kephart and a Woodlaw which I have given good reviews on in this forum, but they will never measure up to high quality customs, and I believe that most of the membership here understand that.
    The same goes for saws and axes, I've had quite a few hardware store axes with heads made in Mexico or China, not one of them came close to the quality and ability of my Vintage American made or Swedish and Canadian made forged axes, or my GB axes.
    My first folding bushcraft saw was a Coleman Camp saw, it cost me $12.00 bucks at Wally world, it was the worst POS bush tool I ever purchased, however my Bacho and Silky saws are twice to four times the price of the Coleman saw, but they actually cut wood and hold up a lot longer.
    But I never implied that cheap knives and other tools were useless or that anyone who used them were ignorant, if it's all you can afford (I've been there done that) you use what you have and be thankful to have it.
    This thread opened asking for a specific opinion about if we are abusing or asking too much from our knives, that's the question I addressed with my answer, in short the answer depends in great part on the quality of your knife and the skills with which you employ them, and nothing to do with idiotic destruction videos.
     
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  46. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    @MrFixIt ,
    hes signed out @Moe M. ...and he wont be back soon ...like maybe ....in the next hour or so , that's how you can tell hes upset ! LMAO
     
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  47. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks, but seriously, I didn't mean to upset anyone, sometimes you just can't be honest without being blunt, I certainly hope he get's over his mad. :44:
     
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  48. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    Okay I'll bite, care to elaborate?

    One of these days I'll get around to a Gransfors Bruks vs Harbor Freight special vs Fiskars just for the heck of it. Personally I think you're not going to get the same quality out of Gransfors Bruks that you will out of a Collins depending on when the Collins was made.
     
  49. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    I've been known to baton a Mora with a hammer or two. Generally if I'm in the woods it's a Mora and or a Victorinox. They work for me but I might be using them wrong, I've been know to do such a thing as well.
     
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  50. Ance

    Ance Supporter Supporter

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    I do not believe a knife should be able to do ANYthing. I do think MY knife should be able to do anything that I need it to do. Not silly nonsensical things but anything I NEED it to handle. If it can not do this or breaks its the wrong knife for me and I dont want it
     

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