One 12 gauge load out to rule them all?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Duncsquatch, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    I have been messing with my sxs shotgun and got a slip on shot shell holder on the buttstock. It holds five rounds + 2 in the barrels. Here is the gun in question- https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/picked-up-a-universal-double-wing-12g-sxs.254969/

    So here is the game, pick the most useful and versatile combo you can come up with. The setting is moderately wooded terrain with bear, deer, elk, and cougar present along with birds and fowl. Here is what l put together today with the rounds I have at my house. This not my ideal but just what I had laying around...

    Format-
    Barrel 1: 2 3/4" 00 buck
    Barrel 2: 2 3/4" #4 lead shot
    Holder/pouch-
    1: 2 3/4" #4 lead shot
    2: 3" mag #1 steel shot
    3: 2 3/4" 00 buck
    4: 2 3/4" #7 like lead shot
    5: (2) 1 3/4 mini shell rifled slugs (they fit nicely in one elastic loop.

    Try to balance predator defense (2 and 4 legged) and versatile game procurement. Not sure but there may be a prize...if enough interest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  2. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I was gonna mention mini shells and the ability in some holder to double load the holder.

    Also a neoprene shell belt is super helpful way to carry a box of shells forget the stretchy webbing. It fags out pretty quick and ya gotta buy again. Waterfoulers neoprene 25 rnd belts are great. I have ine for each of my defensive/survival shorties!!

    As for ammo... I think WW suggested it already if not him someone did, but #2 lead shot is GREAT! Otherwise its #4, OO Buck & Slugs. Just a couple small bird shot (off gun) is what I carry. Also FYI; Regular foster slugs and buck shot are NOT super penetrators many think that they are. You need to but specialized slugs if you want deep penetration

    For be the Shotgun is big medicine. Its not for bunnies and lil furries. Its for big teeth or two legged monsters. My shells reflect that.

    Dont pupu the mini shells they are small PAYLOADS, NOT small power.

    CW
     
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  3. NJStricker

    NJStricker Supporter Supporter

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    I’ve had foster slugs pass through deer, once going through both front legs. Sure, you might not get that at 200 yards, but out of a smooth barrel you’d be lucky to hit anything anyway. If you don’t think fosters will work for you, then try Brenneke’s
     
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  4. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I’d get one long (8” I believe) 12 GA to .22 LR adapter from Short Line and stuff it down which ever barrel it shoots best from. With that you have the option of shooting Long Rifle, Longs, Shorts, BB Caps, Stingers, rat shot etc.

    In bear, deer, elk and big cat land I’d have a few slugs. Coyotes I use number 2’s in lead on but BB’s and #4 buck are all good choices. Water fowl requires steel (if you gun will handle it). Number 5’s are my go too for most big birds, coons and squirrels. 7-1/2’s for smaller birding.

    For camp security one slug and one OO buck will stop any human ever born, not many bears or cats will stand up to that either.

    If you want a less than lethal man round bean bags are strong medicine.


    My most common walking around set (if I'm not specifically hunting something) is one barrel with #2 lead and one with #5 lead.
     
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  5. justinspicher

    justinspicher Scout

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    This is an interesting thread, I should look at doing something like this with my 870...…..
     
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  6. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    I like to use the cheap nylon bandoleers for ammo storage.

    They hold like 50shells. But I rarely fill them that much. Usually 10 or 15 . Also use a buttstock holder. They also make a 7rd buttstock holder.

    I don't like things on my waistline. Just end up pulling my pants down.

    I tend to think in worse case scenarios. If your biggest threat is the one that bursts outta the brush. You don't have time to switch shells. I would load both barrels with whatever you consider your "big medicine". Then keep your foraging rounds off to the side.

    Here in the northeast. Id lose no sleep with just a stout buckshot load and a few birdshot for game. But slugs work really really well. So I'd probably have a few as well.

    Not alot of large predators here. Black bears. But I havent come across one in the woods that didnt high tail it outta there. I'm more concerned about humans and their canines......

    Great thing about shotgun is it's flexibility. You can adjust with the seasons!

    Sorry, I'm thinkin as I'm typing. So looking at my 12ga now. I have it setup like this.
    Bears have been a issue in the local area lately so it's geared towards that.
    Mind you its a pump but substitute my mag tube for your barrels.

    Loaded tube. 1st rd out is a rubber slug. Followed by Brenneke hard cast slugs.
    Buttstock has buckshot. (Skipping over the shotcard) buckshot is for smaller things like rabid foxes or coons or bipedal hairless apes. But slugs will work.

    Now winter I'll have it mainly loaded with buck and the slugs on the stock.
     
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  7. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Ooh a 410er option is also strong medicine as many times a 12 is overkill... like a small critter close like squirrels in a stone wall or a snake at your feet...

    Never have seen shotgun, caliber adaptors shoot well enough to be considered. Caliber conversions on the other hand have been Adequate for close game hunting. 22m in a 223 or a 22H in a 223. Or a 32 acp in a 30/06/308. A gauge conversion is also very good as the shot string dosent know what diameter its bore should be and chokes are a change in dia not a specific diameter. Thats why “jug” chokes can work so well. My 410er patterns as well as any other 410 When fired in a 12ga.



    I was thinking of just 12 ga shells....

    CW
     
  8. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Questions for you.
    Why 2 types of birdshot?
    Why steel shot? If its for waterfowl, you can't have ANY LEAD SHOT in your possession. As well as buckshot. Waterfowl regulation have federally mandated minimums. And states may make them more restrictive, but there are nationwide rules. (I think native lands are exempt, but I know little bout that)
     
  9. Scarywoody

    Scarywoody Scout

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    I've become a fan of the mini shells. Standard rounds hurt when I shoot them with my Baikal coach gun. I made a leather round carrier that holds 6 shells. 5 just seemed odd to me. :/
     
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  10. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    I wish they made a mini with bigger shot.

    Not a fan of 7 1/2. I'd love 4s but 6s will do
     
  11. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    They do a combo shell with buck shot as well as slugs.
     
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  12. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Was just thinking about this.

    I know Winchester has the slug and 3 pellet. And Centurion has a roundball with 6pellets
     
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  13. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    One of the issues with shotguns is the weight of the ammo. A shooter can carry 100 rounds of .22 in a pocket, or a similar number of 9MM pre loaded in magazines easily, but a hundred rounds of 1-1/2 ounce shot shell loads adds up in pounds as well as volume pretty fast.
     
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  14. Paulyseggs

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    Tell me about it!!

    As much as I love my shotgun. It's getting to be too much for my stamina. I just run outta steam from my meds.
     
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  15. Paulyseggs

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    Did some quick weights.
    This is per shell.
    12ga. Roughly 5lbs per 50shells
    2 3/4. 00B 1 5/8soz
    2 3/4 high brass No4. 1 3/4oz
    2 3/4 1oz slug 1 1/2oz
    3in 2oz No.4 2 1/2oz
    3in 1iz slug 1 5/8oz
    3 1/2in 2 1/4oz No.4. 2 3/4oz

    20ga. Roughly. 4.68lbs per 50shells
    2 3/4 No. 6. 1 3/8oz
    2 3/4 Slug. 1 1/8oz
    2 3/4 3B. 1 1/2oz
    3in 1 1/4oz No.5. 1 5/8s



    Eta. Sorry for the thread drift. Drank alot of coffee!!
     
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  16. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I know, I shot a couple of trap matches last weekend and I just about needed a hand truck to bring in my ammo. Even 7/8th ounce trap loads add up pretty quickly.
     
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  17. Bryan King

    Bryan King Supporter Supporter

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    There's no doubt a shotgun is the go to gun for most situations. I've tried doubles , single shots, autos I keep going back to my 20" bbl 12 ga Mossberg 500 pump. Factory camo Turkey gun from mid 80s. I've tried side saddles, stock sleeves to hold ammo, took off , throws the balance off , at least to me. #4 highbrass birdshot, federal - Winchester slug & OO buckshot are my go to rounds.
     
  18. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    I like the velcro shot cards. I've found that I can load them from the card to the chamber much faster than trying to load the mag.
    So fast I've had wardens think I didn't have a plug in while waterfowl hunting.

    Thats a good combo @Bryan King not much else is needed. Legally yes. But if laws were no question. I'd be happy with that
     
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  19. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    When I know what I’m hunting for I like a single, auto or a pump, when I’m brushing around and just looking for a shot on something in general I do like two barrels with their different choke and load options.
     
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  20. 1773

    1773 Supporter Supporter

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    I have played with this idea for years and have finally came to this conclusion for me, if I am hunting the shotgun is loaded with what ever round is appropriate for what I am hunting, I then have other rounds in my hunting pouch to address what is needed. If I am just woods loafing but might want to take something for supper, it is usually loaded with a load of #4s as this will handle anything I am likely to shoot for supper. If I am just wandering around for the sake of being out it is loaded with either a 3" #2 or #4 Buck. The reason being other than defensive use the only thing I would likely shoot in that situation would be a Coyote and those loads would fill that need. I rarely carry slugs unless actually hunting big game. I carry a shell bag that has two inner compartments and 4 shell loops on the flap, this makes it real easy to keep the different loads separate and to be able to grab the load without looking.

    Except for the single shot that I keep on the UTV, I don't have stock cuffs or such on my shotguns, they don't seem to stay put and if you aren't careful you will dislodge your rounds if you are in thick stuff and as Bryan King mentioned it throws the balance of the gun off.
     
  21. yooper71

    yooper71 Scout

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    My shotguns are typically loaded with an ounce and an eighth of shot, either 7.5 or 8.

    Areas I frequent have bear, wolf, coyote, and deer, along with small game. Which, is usually what I’m after if I’m afield with the shotgun. I also am armed with a pistol or revolver. Caliber and configuration of which depends on what I’m doing and what I feel like carrying. Most often it’s a 9mm.

    Btw, I like the way your SXS looks after you took the paint off.
     
  22. Paulyseggs

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    Neat trick to keep the buttcuff from sliding.

    If you have sling swivels. Poke a hole in the cuff and run the swivel stud thru the hole up in to the stock. If you dont have studs, loosen the buttplate a little and slide the edge of the cuff under the buttplate and tighten it down.

    It'll keep it pretty snug.

    I buy them cheap from china. They stretch out I toss em and get another.
     
  23. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    It's there because it is the only 3 inch Magnum birdshot I currently have.
     
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  24. Paulyseggs

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    Sounds like me!! Why?? Cause that's what I got!! :dblthumb:
     
  25. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    The idea is to have this load always with the shotgun for general grab and go. For quail hunting or something specific, yes I would'nt just take this, I would have a box of 7's.
     
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  26. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    I do the same swivel trick on my home defense shotgun.
     
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  27. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    This is the reason I suggested the neoprene belt!! Makes carrying them MUCH EASIER!!!

    https://www.cabelas.com/product/NORTHERN-FLIGHT-STANDARD-NEOPRENE-SHELL-BELT/2250049.uts

    CW
     
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  28. Elgatodeacero

    Elgatodeacero Scout

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    I would simplify down to reduced recoil slugs (Federal Truball are very good and accurate), #2 steel hi velocity 3 inch, and #6 steel hi velocity 2 3/4 and you are ready for anything from squirrels to dove, to turkeys and waterfowl.

    I do not think buckshot is nearly as effective as a slug for large animals or self defense, and you do not need a 1600 FPS slug in a 12 gauge.
     
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  29. Mfraser161

    Mfraser161 Scout

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    If it were me I’d simplify it down to 2 different types of shells. Reason being that unless you’re practicing regularly with reloading the gun and instinctively grabbing the right shell every time you’ll be fumbling for the shell you want when the pressure is on.
    I’d have one slug and one shot shell in the gun with the same types as extra in the holder. Always load the slug in the same barrel and practice selecting that barrel to fire under pressure such as you would be in case of an animal attack. Depending what you’ll be targeting with the shot would determine what size you want.
    I’d probably go slug for the defensive round and #4 shot for anything else , that’d take care of most things.
    If you were wanting a deer or something of that size the slug can easily double as the medium game round as well.
     
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  30. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    Unlike everything else in my shooting life, I keep shotgun simple...

    99% of what I do with a shotgun can be handled with an ounce and a eight of 7.5s with 700X. Have been shooting this load since the mid 1960s... Any factory load that is close is fine with me.

    Load #2 is the Federal Low Recoil 00 Buck with the Flight Control wad...amazing patterns.

    Slugs are picked by the shotgun...but usually a Federal Low Recoil works as well as anything.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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  31. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    #4's or #5's and slugs. All you really need.
     
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  32. Foilist

    Foilist Guide

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    My yard critter/hd shotgun has a butt cuff with three 00 buck and three #4 shot. That will handle anything around here.
     
  33. 62flint

    62flint Guide

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  34. randyt

    randyt Guide

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    tipp of the mitt

    Would you make the same recs for 16 ga? I would reckon so but I'm not a shotgunner
     
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  35. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    Yup. That's all I carry in my 20 gauge as well. Sometimes I run 6's in the 20, just because they are easier to find in any old gas station or market.
    I prefer the larger shot, as they're more prone to pass through, and less likely to be left in my game. I hate biting into shot.
    I hunt everything from quail to pheasants with #4's. Small game too.
    I've even rolled a coyote tearing through my field at about 35 yards with #4, through a full choked 12 guage.
    It's a good, versatile load. Anything lighter than 6's are target loads IMO.
     
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  36. randyt

    randyt Guide

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    thanks Birdman
     
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  37. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    I always looked for and found 5’s carried more power than 6’s yet almost all the “power” of the 4’s yet with denser patterns.

    My turkey load is old school Federal premium 2 1/4 oz #5 3.5”. Hit like a hammer and pattern well past 50 yards.

    Most else was and is handled with 7.5 shot.

    So if I had to have just a few... I guess it would be #4 Buck 3”.
    2) A hard nickel or copper 1 7/8 oz.

    3) A 2.75” #5’s and a field 7.5 2.75 maybe 1 1/8oz loading.

    CW
     
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  38. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    Lots of good suggestions here guys! I agree about having fewer types of shot.

    My question is for #5, #4, and lower numbered shot, will it tear up a quail or dove overly much at close range?

    In the past I pretty much always just used #6 and have poofed a quail or two. But the larger shot with less projectiles, would it actually do better in this regard...
     
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  39. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Yea both are too large.

    Not so much because of destruction but for patterns. Doves and quail are small birds and a denser shot pattern is appreciated.

    7.5 would be a large as I would want.

    CW
     
  40. Duncsquatch

    Duncsquatch Heed the call. Supporter

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    My chamber is 3 inches so those three point fives are not on the table. But those are some good suggestions thanks.
     
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  41. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Hahaha. Wasn't a suggestion its what MY turkey gun shoots! :p:D

    A 3.5” sxs is quite a handful and not so common a acquisition.

    CW
     
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  42. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    I go against the grain, when it comes to quail, and other small birds.
    I prefer heavier, larger shot, and tighter chokes.
    With 4's and a full choke I can anchor a quail much farther away than with 6's. They're also less likely to be torn up by lots of shot. Another benefit is much more lethality with one pellet. I've had quite a few quail get hit with 6's and 7's, and hit the ground running into cover to die. I dont hunt with dogs, so I want my birds to hit the ground dead. Sure, the pattern is a little less dense, but that's never stopped me from getting limits. just choke accordingly.
    This setup is also great late season when the birds are spooked and wont hold.
     
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  43. Paulyseggs

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    Im with @Birdman but I dont shoot quail or dove. I'd pick 5s as my most fav. But 4s are easier to find. 6s I'm ok with but never go below that.

    Be glad. 3 1/2s kinda suck to shoot. I wince just thinking about them. And that was over 10years ago.
     
  44. Kingsford

    Kingsford Guide

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    I shot some turkey loads at a ol abandoned car one day. I think they were copper plated #4.

    They put fist sized holes in the doors and fenders. That what I would carry for 2 legged threats.
     
  45. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    40 S&W & 22 Mag fan residing in New England
    King of the slugs...



    CW
     
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  46. RJM52

    RJM52 Guide

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    I have two of the Mossberg 835s that will run the 3.5" shells.

    Bought the first one as a travel gun... It is camo and has 24" barrels...one VR with chokes and the other is a rifled slug barrel with a cantilever scope mount. The stock has a detachable cheek piece, one flat and one extended for shooting slugs with a scope so you aren't lifting your head off the stock to see.

    The second was a newer one with a 22" VR barrel, also in camo...only bought it because NGX had it marked $175.00.... have not even shot it yet...

    Saw some 3.5" 00 Buck rounds that had something like 18 pellets...picked up the box, thought about my shoulder injury and put them back down....
     
  47. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    My favorite!!
    These are the same weight. 1 3/8s & ribs twist left for rifled barrels. But work really good in smooth bores too. 846.jpg
    The 2 3/4in version. 1 1/4oz. Slug.
    Both of these are the same but different colors and labels. I use these in my Model 12. 60352.jpg 40b892e46d.jpg

    I have no qualms about the classic either.

    I shot a huge doe long ago with a Classic Brenneke. Well over 200lbs. I hit her head on. Right at the base of the neck squre between the collar bones. That slug went as straight as one could think and exited a bit to the side of her anus. Penetrated like 5-6ft of deer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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