outdoors but can’t have a handgun?

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by jstert, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    there is a current and useful thread here on “sidearm for outdoors activities.” here is a recent news article that shows why any firearm is an essential outdoors tool:

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/15/nj-fa...cc=morning_report&mpweb=755-8179897-719080710

    i know that handguns are not on the legal and cultural radar screens of most canadians and new jerseyites, but mother nature plays by different rules sometimes, eh. and btw, what’s up with the canadian rescuer who regretted kicking the attacking wolf?

    so guys, what are useful short barrel firearms choices if your wanderings take you to handgun-unfriendly locales in u.s., as well as crossing into canada? handgun-deprived canadians are allowed some pretty neat short barreled long gun alternatives that are denied to us yanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  2. AdamD1776

    AdamD1776 Scout

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    I took that as he regretted acting without having a plan for what came next, i.e. he kicked the wolf, it turned towards him (This is based on another article that gave more of the Canadian man's story), and he thought to himself "Well, now what? I just kicked an angry wolf, and have no plan for defending myself from it." Which is a completely reasonable reaction to have when you realize you just endangered your own life with no plan on how to proceed.
     
  3. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    thanks adamd1776, useful explanation and more positive than what i inferred.

    job #1: have an “a” gameplan. job #2: have a “b” plan when “a” goes inevitably south. job #3: have the tools, training and willpower to execute “a” and “b.” #3 is the hardest.

    a handgun is the ideal defensive tool for this kind of dire, up close and personal, emergency. i’m hard pressed to come up with a defensive firearm alternative to a handgun that is handy, reliable, unexotic, 50 state and canada lawful, and won’t break the bank. an 18” single or double barrel coach shotgun? must autoeject spent rounds for quick reloads. 20ga for energy/recoil balance?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  4. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Supporter Supporter

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    Something many of the younger folks have lost...

    For every action there are reprocussions. So if your gonna be stupid ya better be tough.

    CW
     
  5. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Isn't this what carbines are for?
     
  6. salty dog

    salty dog Supporter Supporter

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    I got a Winchester Trapper in 45 Colt. Not for Canada, but in case I needed to be armed in a state that outlawed handguns or scary looking long guns. If, like NJ, they outlaw hollow points, I can still punch a 7/16 hole in something.
     
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  7. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    there is much great comfort in 45lc.
     
  8. Oldguy59

    Oldguy59 Roughian #5 Supporter

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    My uncle kept a razor sharp hatchet under his pillow while camping to deal with any uninvited visitors during the night.
     
  9. stillman

    stillman Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    A 16" lever action in whatever caliber you like would be a good option.

    JSP ammo.
     
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  10. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    I wrote somewhere else recently about how I like to have options for every eventuality I can reasonably imagine myself in. I think it's a good plan for anyone, and that it's part of why so many of us have varied collections of firearms. If one has a great handgun and rifke, but no carbine or shotgun in their collection they are not as prepared as they could be (many would justifyably argue "should be"). I know the "...man with one gun..." is a thing - but it assumes that he can have that gun. Better plan, IMO, is to have and be proficient with multiple platforms.
     
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  11. Danmanrn

    Danmanrn Tracker

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    Check your state and local regulations first. Then consider a single shot shot gun.
    They can be found usually around or under $100.00. Very few parts to break. Stupid easy to use. Ammo can be found
    almost anywhere. So give it some thought.
     
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  12. MaximIsayev

    MaximIsayev Scout

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    Mosin Nagant with an attached bayonet. :D Don’t even need any ammo as it makes a great spear.
     
  13. MaximIsayev

    MaximIsayev Scout

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    Seriously though, a short lever action in 45/70 can stop anything up to and including a polar bear. I’m in Ontario (not the far north part) and there’s no need for that kinda firepower here. I usually have a single-shot 12GA.
     
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  14. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I gave a friend one of my hand made knives for work and he used it often ,but forgot all about it when his big doberman attacked him.
    I think that unless one is put in a life threatening position there is no training that puts killing into action, except fear . If you lived through a previous event.
    I was randomly attacked by dogs in the past and as an adult this has fallen on me to put down several animals (pets)and wild life.
    I don't enjoy doing it and the longer I think about it the harder it is to perform.
    Taking proper action is a discipline that needs taught and practiced .
    In some environments when I see suspicious people, I do several things to assess the possibilities and plan to take action .
    In the woods animals have better sight and senses we tend to give them credit for and this is a mistake , so my protocol is to assume I am being watched all the time .
    If you snuck into my back yard I'd be watching you,, make no mistake .
    If you do not practice the skills to act , then practice the skills to die.
     
  15. scottman

    scottman Bushmaster

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    Kukri
     
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  16. DKR

    DKR Guide

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    [​IMG]
    very Roman-like, eh?
     
  17. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    An 18" 12 guage pump with 3" chamber.
    An .875", 600 grain slug, at 1500 fps, will drop anything in north America. You've also got 4 more rounds if the first doesnt do the trick.
    It's also just a damn versatile weapon.
    I'd much rather have that than any of my lever guns, as much as I love lever guns.
    Another upside is they are cheap. Even a nicer one. I constantly see older model 870 Wingmasters for under $400.
     
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  18. Pinnah

    Pinnah Scout

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    a) Not sure I'd want to deploy a firearm of any kind in a midnight melee in a small tent with my wife and 2 kids in the mix.
    b) I wonder how may jurisdictions forbid handguns but permit long gun carry (for non-hunting purposes like general protection)? It's an honest question. I simply don't know.
    c) Given how rare wolf (or large predator) attacks are, it's not something I consider when camping, unless I'm going to real dangerous game locations. I camp in bear country all the time and never give protection a second thought other than keeping a clean camp and storing food away. Being hit in the night by a widow maker is much more likely.
     
  19. Robedsubset

    Robedsubset Scout

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    Youth single shot 20 gauge
     
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  20. Paulyseggs

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    I have longguns to carry for when I goto NYS. Because I can't legally carry a handgun.

    It's a Marlin 70P Papoose 22lr or my Takedown 12ga. I always get a hunting license or plan on getting one.
    I scour the rule books for species that will be open. I love coyotes, seasons are long and generous. And a great tool for yotes is buckshot. But they're pretty wily because Ive never shot one.
    One day thou;)
     
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  21. Hawkcreek

    Hawkcreek Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I prefer a short handy carbine over anything else. I'm a big fan of the Ruger GSR but these three levers are shorter, lighter and appear less menacing to the masses.

    L to R:
    94 Trapper .30-30
    92 .45 Colt shortest of them all and still holds 8+1 rounds
    336Y .30-30
    [​IMG]
     
  22. Unistat76

    Unistat76 Nerd Supporter Bushclass I

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    My .357 mag lever gun. At social distances I can fire it from the hip accurately enough.
     
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  23. Paul Caruso

    Paul Caruso Being all that I am. Supporter

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    I would love to be able to carry a handgun into the woods but I can't. If it is hunting season I usually have a .22 over 20 gauge. I would hope a slug would be sufficient to take out a bear, but then I've only hunted, and am not trained or experienced in any sort of life and death situations with a long gun. That being said when I'm out and about, worried about something in the woods, I have an 870, 12 gauge with the shortest legal barrel I can have on it with the plug removed and loaded up with slugs. It makes a great sleep aid. That being said, out of the dozens of bears that I have seen when I have been in the woods they have been very eager to get as far away from me as quickly as they can.
     
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  24. Wasp

    Wasp DOWN IN DIXIE Supporter

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    What about a spear? Definitely make a spear before getting to far in the woods. Or lash a knife to a poll and make a spear. :D

    I'd go through whatever to get a handgun assuming there is a method. Otherwise I'd carry a shotgun/rifle, then knife, spear, sharp rock or something.

    I'm never unarmed.
     
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  25. OrienM

    OrienM Guide

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    I carried a sling as a kid, and had to use it to run off aggressive animals a couple times. A handgun is a much better tool for the job, IMO, but animals did seem to understand that a 100-mph flying rock would hurt a lot. A sling is totally useless at at contact distance, though, and an attacking human would probably laugh rather than flee...:46:

    For Canada, I'd get a shortened 12-gauge, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  26. plumberoy

    plumberoy Supporter Supporter

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    I believe that in Canada they can have shorter shotguns I remember seeing an 870 with a magpul stock and a 12.5 - 14 inch barrel with screw in chokes. ( barrel was same length as mag tube) that the person carried while fly fishing. I would love to have something like that here. Also I think Les Stroud did a survivorman show with another man with him once and the guy with him had a 12 inch barreled single shot 410.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
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  27. Elgatodeacero

    Elgatodeacero Scout

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    @DKR that is the manliest photo posted on BCUSA this month.
     
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  28. AB McLeod

    AB McLeod Supporter Supporter

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    I'm not sure about what is or isn't legal in some US States but both of these are legal in Canada.

    [​IMG]

    I would like to point out however, that firearms have to be unloaded and encased (and woe be unto those who use one) in Banff National Park where the wolf attack took place.

    Just one of the many reasons I try and stay away from Banff and Jasper unless simply passing through.
     
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  29. YacoltWose

    YacoltWose Supporter Supporter

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    This is the smartest thing anyone has said in this discussion.
     
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  30. Grouse870

    Grouse870 Scout

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    Single shot shotgun with a 18-19” barrel, Remington tac14/mossberg shockwave, short 10.5-11.5 AR15 in 5.56 or 8-10” .300 blackout. All work just fine. I still prefer a handgun though.
     
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  31. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    I don't think these campers thought that they were camping in a real dangerous game location...
    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/bear-drags-child-from-familys-tent/

    Bad bears, bad bears
    Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do
    When they come for you

    Nature doesn't play by human society's rules and regulations.
     
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  32. fuzz stick

    fuzz stick Tracker

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    Statistically bear attacks are not typical and wolves, even less so. If on a camping trip, the limited time results in a limited exposure framework. However, such things occur and you're better off having and not needing than the other way around.

    Back in the 70's I spent about three years in an isolated cabin in the bush and had a few issues with bears and a couple of incidents with wolves. If I had not been armed, I wouldn't be here now.

    I used to sleep with a 44 magnum in my sleeping bag but since the option of a handgun is not for you, I'd carry a pump or auto 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buck shot. Since it will be used at spitting distance, the size of buck won't matter but I'd be happy with 00 Buck. Make sure you thoroughly test your gun for reliability. If the concern is for bears, I'd definitely go with slugs. Above all......keep your nerve and use your head.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  33. Paulyseggs

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    No different than any other.
    House, car, apartment, bathroom etc. Predator is a predator. An attack is an attack.
    If you don't have a shot, you don't. Sucks but thats Fate & Nature.
     
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  34. 1911srule

    1911srule Guide

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    I no longer travel where I cant have a handgun legally. My last camping trip to the Adirondacks I took a pump slug gun and low and behold even that is illegal in NY outside of hunting season for a non resident. Insane. Done with NY.
     
  35. Pilot

    Pilot Scout

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    I don't do outdoor activities in state's where I can't legally carry a firearm, and I won't go to Canada anymore for that reason. There are several states with reciprocity for my PA LTCF so I go to those when not here.
     
  36. rhino on INGO

    rhino on INGO Supporter Supporter

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    :dblthumb:

    :dblthumb:

    :dblthumb:


    Take my input for what it's worth. I don't spend much time in the woods and I will probably never see a bear in the wild. I do know a little about personal defense, though.

    If I had limited options, and a short barreled shotgun were an option, I'd go with a short pump or self-loader with 00 buck with Federal flight control wad for 12ga or the biggest buckshot I could find and would pattern well in 20ga. If bears were a reasonable risk, I'd either load slugs or have some slugs in a side saddle and spend some time practicing select loading before my trip. Is a short shotgun isn't an option, but "firearms" like a Mossberg 590 Shockwave or the Remington equivalent are, those can be really handy with the right pistol brace (less so without a brace... they're not easy to shoot well otherwise).
     
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  37. jstert

    jstert Scout

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    my thinking too, this one sleeps under my bed.

    without wishing to go political here it sure would be nice if the powers-that-be recognized that, since no miscreant in the modern age uses single action revolvers for misdeeds, peaceable folks should be allowed to freely carry one while outdoorsing. a ruger blackhawk would have solved the canadian wolf attack pretty quick.
     

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  38. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    I don't think the OP meant to limit the discussion to that single incident. Every attack has its own dynamics.
     
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  39. Morrow7x

    Morrow7x Supporter Supporter

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    Yeah, if your pants are already halfway down your ass a Blackhawk would have them on the ground, and dang it, they just don't look as cool when you hold them sideways! :D

    A classic outdoorsman's firearm. ;)
     
  40. Birdman

    Birdman IG: @ChasingTheBackcountry Supporter

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    This is true, but if you spend a lot of time in the bush, especially if you're a hunter, you're at a considerably higher risk than the average Joe.
     
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  41. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Read between the lines.

    Something is always in season. And if you wanna hunt red squirrels or porcupines with a slug it's perfectly legal
     

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