Perpetual Esee Junglas passaround #6 - with a SAK and a Silky

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by HannahT, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks, my body aches tell me I worked hard. Got to do it again tomorrow (or soon). Plus plant the vegetables out back.

    I guess the older members of our family said these bushes were planted about 50 years ago. Given the 3-4' deep roots, I believe that.

    But such huge shrubbery makes my small house look smaller. And they're so blah.

    Probably be able to write up a report or more in depth review of the pads around tools on Monday.

    Could have been harder doing the bushes though, I could have tried to do it using the saw on the Farmer instead of the silky!
     
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  2. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    You did a great job. How are you feeling this morning?
     
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  3. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Woke with a headache... Delayed onset muscle soreness all over. Lol. Time for round two, in the midst of a big rain storm on its way too.

    Mom is out getting groceries while I put baby Ollie to a nap, wyatt is playing legos making a mess in my kitchen and the cat won't get off my leg.

    One hell of a day so far!

    I do think if I was a full time homesteader, I'd be in peak physical condition though! Ugh! It hurts so good!
     
  4. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    The satisfaction of a job well done manifests itself in many ways.
    What are you going to replant?
     
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  5. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    A weeping cherry blossom tree, annual dahlias, ground and garden phlox, some bagonias and lavender. Probably lay down some red mulch over the soil too.

    Want to put paver blocks in as a border edge.

    One side mostly done. Will put more white garden phlox on the back. Make something nice to block visibility of the old drain pipe.

    2E35D677-6799-4120-A8A3-FB34C9F5AF87.jpeg

    First garden bed done too.

    Kohlrabi, cheery and big boy tomatos, bell peppers. Some marigolds for color and for the bees.
    DFC3D146-45AE-49D9-92E3-1FD8A0B023E5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  6. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Looking good!
     
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  7. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    You are really kicking it this weekend. :)
     
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  8. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks! Sometimes this is as "bushcrafty" as I can get. I feel it counts, spending time outside, working in the dirt, planting life. It's worthwhile.

    SAK farmer and silky saw were awesome this weekend. The PSK came in handy for a few bandages where I rubbed my hands and knuckles raw on buried roots. Yes, I know.... Gloves. Lol.

    Oddly enough, the Junglas was the only tool less needed and less useful.
     
  9. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    I have some ideas to improve the PSK as well. Ever seen those little water tight Systema food containers?

    It could also use some water proof matches.

    I do like the pouch that it's in, fieldline is available at Walmart. I may pick one up.

    My edc "PSK" of sorts is primarily in a modified altoid tin, but storage and carrying ability is enhanced by putting it into an old point and shoot camera case. Pics to follow. I'm able to then additionally fit an opinel knife, a beard comb, and a bandana with room to spare.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  10. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Update, some cultivar of YEW bush.

    Trying to get photos linked, imgur is being a pain. Don't want to just upload all via mobile, would like to resize some.

    So who gets all this stuff next? I'll be ready to ship it out towards end of the week, early next. @HannahT do you know?
     
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  11. HannahT

    HannahT Firebug Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    Absolutely it counts!

    The last spot in the passaround is still open, so I guess you can hang on to it for awhile longer. I thought surely all your pics would bring out somebody wanting to try it :)
     
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  12. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I'm kinda surprised there isn't a waiting line for this. Especially with warm weather finally here. :)
     
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  13. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    This pass around has been going on for a while. I wonder how many people have used this?
     
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  14. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    No Problem! I want to chop things and refine the Junglas edge up north this weekend too... put it through some fire prep paces and such.

    Man.. has to be quite a few. A couple dozen at least. This thing looks like it's been around the block a few times. Seems to be holding up great though. I just don't want to think about all the gunk worked into the micarta handle scales from all the different people though. Perhaps a good soaking in hand sanitizer.....lol
     
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  15. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Well some thoughts on the Junglas.. It's a big knife. Solid and well built. The black coating is quite thick, I don't much care for it, but meh.

    The edge seems sharp at first feel, but when trying to chop and slice into things, it sure doesn't perform. maybe it's because the edge is worn from being passed around, or I'm doing it wrong... so I sharpened the edge to how I would want it. No changing the grind angles or thickness behind the edge (which is too thick to really perform well, I think).

    Not really much better. It slices fine, it splits great and sure takes a beating. It just does not chop as well as I had expected for something that ought to act as a replacement for a hatchet. It seems just "OK" at shaving wood and doing smaller cuts, but is chunky, clunky, and unwieldy.

    I'm not a fan. Sorry.

    If it were my knife, I'd thin the blade behind the edge, that should allow it to bite in deeper, and I'd remove the black coating which is easily half a mm thick. The handle is comfortable enough, but could use some wilson racket wrap or something. It's VERY blade heavy and the balance is just so-so. To be expected with a 10+ inch blade.

    The Victorinox Farmer is awesome... nothing much to say about something so classic as this. I did crap loads of whittling, carving, sawing and awling and compared to my Huntsman. I do like the Huntsman better for all of those things (and more thanks to it's more full featured tool set). I think for EDC in Alox, the Pioneer X would be great. So this still allowed me the chance to carry a SAK with 3 layers in Alox to see what that would be like.

    The PSK in the box is a great little package, although I feel it was missing some things. I have added some of those. It's a surprise and bonus points if you can figure out what I put in the kit. The Farmer was in the PSK, so I presume the intended purpose was as an emergency "oh crap I need a knife to do lots of stuff in a pinch" sort of scenario. Yeah, that'll do it. :)

    The Silky saw was incredible... it cut down 8 of some sort of yew bush in front my house. I really loved this saw. It made me put down my cherished 10" Corona and I am now thinking that for my woods bummin' bag (a sort of haversack/satchel, if you will...) a 7" folding saw is perfect. I am also going to copy the sheath design that it came with. An excellent little slip sheath, although the saw fits a wee bit loose on this one.

    All in all, I much prefer my Skrama as a chopping tool, one tool option knife, and general purpose cut, slash, whack and slice stuff tool (aside from smaller, more typical woods knives). The balance in teh hand is superior with the Skrama- which allows smaller people like my 7yr old to handle such a big knife with relative ease. The chopping depth is superior with the Skrama. Push cutting and edge keenness, superior. Edge retention, superior to 1095 as well. Nothing super wrong with the Junglas, but for the cost of 2 Skramas for the most part, I find it would be hard to justify.

    I was able to lop off the free standing heads of dandelions with both Skrama and the Junglas (after I put my edge on it). That was cool, if not a useless endeavor.

    I learned a lot from this pass-around. It reaffirmed my belief and love for the Skrama, it taught me that I can use the ever living HECK out of a 7" folding saw and get just as much if not more work done, that I certainly do like and can manage a 3 layer Alox SAK, and that the Farmer is NOT it. Oh, and I do like the pouch that the PSK is in, so I'll be heading out to pick one of those up for myself.

    Now, PICTURES!!!!!

    Ready to head up north for some work....

    [​IMG]

    After refining the edge- really just sharpening what was there, 30 medium strength chops into the same dead, dry oak branch. Junglas on right, Skrama on left. Skrama wins.

    [​IMG]

    Even 1st graders love a good knife!
    [​IMG]

    Getting ready to sharpen!
    [​IMG]

    That'll do.
    [​IMG]

    Dandelion didn't stand a chance, DECAPITATED!
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. woodsranger

    woodsranger Solitude Seeker

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    HA! Silky for the win! :4:

    It replaced my Bahco.

    Silky...Skrama...JP110...the perfect threesome! I've slimmed down to just the Silky and the 110, but keep a Fiskars X7 in my car. For a "one tool" option I don't think the Skrama can be beat.
     
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  17. HannahT

    HannahT Firebug Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    @JasonJ your thoughts on the Junglas match mine almost exactly. It's a cool knife for sure, but it kind of bounces off rather than biting deep, and when you couple that with small hands (I couldn't hold on to it very well) it just wasn't for me. Reprofiling the edge would make a world of difference.
     
  18. Logan Woods

    Logan Woods Scout

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    There is something about seeing other people’s pictures and thoughts of a knife that has been passed around, with myself included, and seeing the little contribution that I put forth to the knife still attached that makes me a little proud for some reason haha. It may not be for everyone but the whole concept of the journey that thing has been on makes it priceless in my book!
     
  19. Bushcraft and Brews

    Bushcraft and Brews Supporter Supporter

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    We found that you have to take really shallow bites to get everything out of the Junglas. I mean less than 30 degrees which can be a little unsafe in my opinion.
     
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  20. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Not surprised... Honestly as soon as I started using it..I was instantly disappointed. As @HannahT said... It bounces of wood more than anything. With its mass it just bashes its way through instead of cutting.

    I would turn switch halfway through a job to the skrama and laugh out loud at the difference. Look at my side by side pic and the Junglas cut into the log at only about 60-70% of what the skrama did.

    That's a lot of extra work to cut through your medium. My little cold steel trail hawk does better than that with less effort.

    Actually... When I get a chance I'll compare the $20 cheapy tomahawk to the Junglas. I mean, if the goal is to have a chopping tool for camp and trsil use... Let's compare based on that instead of similarly sized other knives.
     
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  21. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Interesting review. I have heard of these Skrama blades but have not seen one.

    I do have to say that the Junglas must have been really dulled somewhere down the line since I used it. Both when I received it, and when I sent it, it would take hair off my arms. And it chopped like you wouldn't believe. I'm on my phone so I can't link to it, but if you can find my report, you can see what I did with it.

    My Junglas came with the coating stripped, and that definitely makes a difference. :)
     
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  22. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    I think stripping the coating would help, it's "sticky" and thick.. not sure what's up with the edge. Even sharpened, it just doesn't bite into wood like it should.

    And it does indeed shave... coarsely, but it does.

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Huh....:) Yeah, I don't know what to say. :) Nice legs. ;)

    I know the blade coating was a sticky point for me. Pun intended. :) Maybe just the different woods? I chopped both green and dry Aspen, green and dry pine, dry maple, etc.

    Two things impressed me enough to buy one. The way it chopped, and how sharp it stayed after doing some serious chopping. I do have to also say that this is the first big chopper knife I really used as a chopper too, so that may make a difference in my perception and experience. I've had some larger blades but never used them for chopping.

    I like mine and the only reason it's up for sale right now is to pay for something else that I want more:)
     
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  24. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    LOL.. thanks? Yeah this is a weird one. I chopped dry maple, dry black oak, live yew, dead dry paper birch... and dandelions of course. At this time, no way can I say I'd run out and spend $169 for this knife. I have this thing for a bit more time (still no new pass-arounder to send to) so I think - if everyone is OK with this- I'll hit the edge on some different stones and see if I can get a better biting edge to it.

    I still feel that this blade is just TOO THICK BEHIND THE EDGE to really dig in.. perhaps that is from wear over the years that this thing has been going around, and we've gotten up to the point where we are no where near the original grind thickness anymore.

    I want to like it, it seems expensive for what it is and how it performs, it just seems that it ought to be doing better. It isn't just me since others have had the same experience recently.. it could just be this sample and all of the extreme use it's seen. It has held up fantastically though. It's a very tough knife.

    That lanyard was great! I slipped my pinky though it and was able to move back on the handle a good 2" and get more swinging power out of it.. made for a more machete like swing action. Very nice.
     
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  25. HannahT

    HannahT Firebug Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    It's been through a lot of hands, so I'd guess we've worn it down some :D
     
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  26. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    Ok...I don't want to sound like an educated donkey here, but I have a question. I've been considering a junglas for a while now, and yes @gohammergo , I look at yours every day. Seriously.

    My question, along with qualifying statement, is this:

    It's called "junglas" and was designed for jungle use (and knowing the history, I assume a weapon) and therefore more slanted toward use on soft wood and vegetation. Why is it being compared to an axe? It isn't meant to be one. Are y'all trying to see if you can do multiple tasks with one tool? Or are you trying to push the limitations for fun? I'm ok with that, I just read what I perceive as negative comments about using the tool in a manner I don't see it designed for.
    Please understand I'm not necessarily criticizing anyone here. I'm just curious. I want to use one for fence row cleaning mainly and lopping off small limbs. I realize that, as much as I try, my "dirt time" and "bushcraft" is pretty much restricted to homesteading chores. So I may not quite relate to the reasons for some of the testing, or maybe I'm looking for different results.

    Maybe I shouldn't have commented either...fortune favors the bold, but doesn't mean the bold won't get "B-slapped."
     
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  27. Bushcraft and Brews

    Bushcraft and Brews Supporter Supporter

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    Your legs are ok... could use a tan! It might be the area in which I travel, but it just wasn't the knife for me. I feel like I can accomplish a lot more with a small axe and a Mora for the same weight (The Junglas is a whopping 33oz with sheath!). If I were working with vine or bamboo I think it would make sense. All of that being said I felt pretty bad a## swinging that thing!
     
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  28. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead LB#42 Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    No "B-slappin'" here. Why don't you jump in and try it for yourself?
     
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  29. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

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    Alright, gave the ESEE Expat Cleaver a try a month or so back. If my credentials are acceptable, I'd like to give these a try. More for the saw than the Junglas. :4: If the scales are anything like those on the Expat, I just didn't find them comfortable.

    Since I'm the last spot, does that mean I organize the next round? Not a problem if so, just checking.
     
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  30. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    Well, I may do that if it's ok.

    And @WY_Not , I may be mistaken, but I want to say the Junglas, cleaver, and 6/5 have similar scales.
     
  31. HannahT

    HannahT Firebug Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    Yep, it does - I'll put you in the last spot, and when @JasonJ gets done he can send it on to you :) The Silky is awesome :) @gohammergo is probably right that the Junglas may have started out with a much different bevel than it has now. If @JasonJ works it over, it may be a chopping monster again when it gets to you :D
     
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  32. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

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    Figured as much from the looks of the pics. Still, I would be curious to give it a try. Don't have a big knife other than a machete and a Woodsman Pal (old style with stacked leather handle and leather sheath).

     
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  33. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Right then, nothing wrong with t his comment at all. I don't compare it to an axe at all, small hatchet- yes. Other cutting, chopping, delimbing like a machete tools (Skrama) - yes.

    From ESEE's website:

    "The knife is designed to have the strength and rigidity of a fixed blade knife while maintaining the cutting efficiency of a machete."

    Fair enough, they liken it to cutting (and I assume being used like) a machete. BUT... have you seen the blade stock thickness of this thing?!?!?!?!?! It is almost 5mm thick.. .188". That's sharpened pry bar territory. Within .001" of Becker BK9.. which are known to be the Kings of sharpened pry bars. If this knife is meant to flick and slice, sweep through branches and vines and whatnot like a machete.. it has NO BUSINESS being 3/16" thick. None.

    I also used this (tried to) knife to slice through and take down a live Lilac bush that needed to be removed.. it cut in, but then the branches mostly just bent out of the way. We are talking about a 5mm thick blade weighing nearly a pound and a half.. that's a lot of mass. Lilac bush branches are soft, flexible, springy and vine like... if the Junglas was primarily designed to cut through brush like that, it should have excelled. It did not.

    This is what I'm talking about, not including the smaller shoots and such.. these cuts were done by the Skrama (the big main pieces were obviously cut with a saw).

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    If anyone feels it would be more fair, I'll go back out and do comparable cuts with my Gavilan Columbian machete and the Junglas. I want to give it a fair shake.. but the reason I compared it to other one-tool option(able) type of blades is because it is the length and thickness of such.. it is also the sort of use cases that ESEE is known to promote and make their products for. It's also the sort of uses I have read and seen people on other knife forums doing with this thing for years... chopping, splitting, camp tasks and such.

    So the whole kit will be going to @WY_Not next.. if you'd like @Black5 it can go to you after that. Try it out for yourself.. maybe it'll be a better fit for you than it was for me. No knife or tool is perfect, and no one tool is ideal for everyone. I don't mean to say that the Junglas sucks, it doesn't... but for what I do, the woods and tasks that I come across, it is not the one for me.
     
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  34. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    I will do my best! 1095 responds well to the stones and techniques I have at hand.
     
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  35. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    I'm beginning to wonder about the edge on the blade now myself after some of the comments. It seems to not be cutting as well after several users, but still serviceable.

    I surely didn't mean to cause offense, and I know sometimes I'm a little on the less than tactful side of the conversation.
    But we know a multipurpose tool has to make sacrifices somewhere along the line in order to be multipurpose.
     
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  36. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Don't sweat the comments friend... less than tactful is still more often than not, truthful, and to me that is what matters. Say it straight, tell it how it is.

    The edge does not look damaged is my hangup... it seems perfectly fine. It is sharp.. it just seems as though has it enters the medium, it instantly encounters a more wedge shaped, thick blade stock that slows down (stops) the blade from going any deeper or all the way through. That's the best I can figure. It's like trying to split rounds of firewood with a maul instead of an axe. Granted a splitting maul is what you should be using for that, but the point and behavior of both is clear.. the thinner, keener axe will bite down into the wood harder with less effort put forth.. the maul will wedge in and force those two halves apart, but it needs a lot more mass and momentum (F=ma afterall) to do so.

    I left these images a little larger than normal for ease of viewing.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I really don't see any reason why this edge should be performing as it does, other than the blade thickness behind it is too much. And that may be the result of lots of use, repeated sharpenings by different people. Which, if true should be a telltale as to what one could expect as the blade ages; a slight reprofiling or thinning out of the blade like what Ben at Baryonx does, may be necessary.
     
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  37. gohammergo

    gohammergo I like sharp things.... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I think the Junglas would be a good fit for you. I use it more of in a homestead manner myself. I carry it on my four wheeler and use it for brush cutting, trimming branches along the trails, clearing around fences and such. It's a good tool in that regards because not only can you chop, but you can slice too.

    I carry an axe on the wheeler as well, but find for most things, the Junglas does the job. When I'm out doing fence maintenance or working on trails, I strap it on. Otherwise, I just leave it on the wheeler.

    I do think that adding the kit to it kind of makes it a little clunky to carry. Maybe a smaller, more streamlined kit would be better, but that's the only pouch I had available.

    If you are interested in it, shoot me an offer. Maybe you would not want the kit with it?
     
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  38. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    I spent a good hour on it... Did the best I could. Went out and tested it on dry hard maple... It's better.. A lot better. Not as deep biting as my skrama... And I chopped the same with my cold steel trail hawk and that blew it away in terms of chopping depth and energy required.

    But it's definitely improved from where it was. She'll cut flesh... I can tell ya that. Ask me how I know.

    3CA39C11-6C63-489C-A7A0-0C5E529528A6.jpeg

    69F6BDFF-9469-439B-BE7C-96CA34730B48.jpeg 38A0075C-0132-40E4-B19D-6349905A93F7.jpeg 5E12787A-15BE-4880-9FD5-D286B174647B.jpeg
     
  39. Mr. Tettnanger

    Mr. Tettnanger Supporter Supporter

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    ^^NICE EDGE^^!!
     
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  40. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks! I should have done this before I tested it.

    Should be seeing this package go out today...I've been trying to get to the post office for about 3 days now...
     
  41. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Package is on it's way to WY_Not. I shipped it USPS yesterday... will send tracking number when I get home today via PM.
     
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  42. Simplejack

    Simplejack Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    Its still alive
     
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  43. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    I've had a few days to put a junglas to work now, and I do mean work.

    It is not a hatchet, nor a machete.
    It does however allow me to use one tool for cutting vines, briers, elm and walnut saplings from fence rows, as well as trimming low branches from my tractor seat. It outperforms my smachet, and while it may not perform as well as my fiskers hatchet, it performs well enough that I don't need to carry the hatchet.
    I've also used it to create a four pronged gig, and a wooden maul.

    I admit I did work the edge over a tad, until it would shave hairs off my knuckles. I've taken down several saplings over three inches with it fairly quickly. Now, since I don't know any of you personally, I might question if my success cutting with it may have something to do with mass and energy? I can put a lot of force in a swing.
     
  44. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Well, to the last point... Perhaps. On the other hand, if I'm putting the same force and energy into a swing with a competing tool, and getting different results.... All things being equal besides the tool, then the cause of the variation is in the tool, not the power behind my cutting motion.

    Example, I chop downward with the Junglas and skrama into the same piece of wood, same angle (as much as humanly possible), same force behind the chop... One bites deeper... Takes fewer hits to carve out a wedge of wood, or to cut right through it in fewer (sometimes one) swings, conclusion:

    The knife with the lesser chopping ability is inferior to the other for that cutting action or in that scenario.

    Doesn't mean it's a crap tool. But at 2-3 times the price it may not present a good value in my mind.
     
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  45. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    Not having a skrama, I can't compare. But it does better at more than what I was using. So, this may come down to a Ford vs Chevy thing.
     
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  46. JasonJ

    JasonJ Supporter Supporter

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    Exactly... And who knows, maybe the correct answer is "Toyota"! Lol.

    So long as whatever we use works for us... Good enough!
     
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  47. Mr. Tettnanger

    Mr. Tettnanger Supporter Supporter

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    Where are we at with this pass around boys and girls?
     
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  48. HannahT

    HannahT Firebug Hobbyist Supporter Bushclass I

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    @WY_Not was the fifth and last on the list for this round. Sound like he's started his round with @Black5 ?
     
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  49. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    No passy to me. @gohammergo set me up with a junglas back this summer.

    I would not do to a pass around blade what I did to that poor thing.
    :confused:
     
  50. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

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    I've got it. I've used it a bit but haven't gotten out in the woods with it. Just whacking some small limbs off the brush around the house. Also, weekend before last I was down at the parents installing a new mailbox post and mailbox (@$##$$$#^$#$ state snow plow drivers). Digging the hole was a real bear due to all the rocks in the dirt by the road. Finally got the hole deep enough. The 4x4 post had a two-foot piece of angle iron that went in the bottom about half way so that the post sits in the dirt another foot or so without having to dig another foot or so. Well, there was no one around to hold a wood block on top of the post while I drove it in with a sledge hammer... so, the top end of the post was little mushroomed when I got done driving it in. Used the Junglas to shave the top of the post back to shape/size so that the decorative post could slip down over the wood 4x4 post. Worked great.
     
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