Power Options After EMP?

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by CharClothed, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    So after doing my daily search of "North Korea" in the news, I keep seeing the recurring theme of EMP Against United States bunched together. I've already thrown a couple things in tin foil and will most likely purchase one of the trash can's for a larger Faraday cage to protect as much as I can. I will also store black tape to put on the windows in the event I do get electricity, my neighbors won't see it. But I was curious what power options you think should be considered to buy for the event of a EMP? As well as what options should be protected in a Faraday Cage.
     
  2. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Bushmaster

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    I'll just rig up a few small solar panels to my deep cycle boat batteries for 12V DC to run a few strings of LED lights and my CB/ QRP ham radio rigs. Also have a stream close by I can rig up a water wheel 12V generator charger from a few alternators I have stowed away. I live on a lake in the woods so no water, heat or cooking fuel problems. We got by just fine for 20 days during winter ice storm of 97 before power was restored, I started up the generator at the beginning to test run but never had to use used it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  3. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Personally I would worry more about what you can do without power. You would be amazed at the number of people who will be in a panic. It's probably not going to be like a storm when the power will be back on in a few hours. joe
     
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  4. Hook

    Hook Scout

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    I think communication is very important. I'm working on storing a few handheld 2 way radios, one for each family member. I'm considering nesting, having a large container, with a smaller container/s and the electronic device wrapped in bubble wrap and tinfoil.
    I have read of ppl buying and storing the electronic parts for vehicles, but I wouldn't know wich parts to store to put my rig back in working order. Same for generators.
    Will be following this thread.
     
  5. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    There will be plenty of car batteries and alternators in dead cars after an EMP. Get a few solar trickle chargers stashed away so you can use them when the grid is down to charge car batteries. You could even charge batteries as a service to barter with.

    Learn how to remove the alternator from a vehicle and use it to charge a car battery with electricity generated from wind or water sources.

    Get a few of these, so you can connect them to car batteries and recharge USB items. Today you can get anything from AA batteries, to flashlights, to lanterns, to radios that recharge via USB.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ginsco-Charg...8&qid=1507993484&sr=8-1&keywords=12v+usb+port

    I have a folding solar panel in my faraday cage that has USB outputs. I have a few battery chargers that recharge AA and AAA batteries and have a USB input on them, so I can use the sun to recharge AA and AAA batteries. I have had three FRS radios with rechargeable batteries that either charge in their cradle or via a mini USB cable. I tossed those in my Faraday cage because I can recharge them with the solar panel or from a car battery.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  6. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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  7. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Few hours? You need to spend some time in the north east ;p Days, weeks, nearly a month on 3 occasions in my life.

    I should add.... they have these new fancy things called solor generators. Should look them up. They are neat and can run a small fridge (like what you have in college) and some LED lights. I want to get one but living in the woods I dont think I get enough sunlight to make it usable.

    OH but a note.... look up how to build one... it's cheaper by far AND you can get higher power outputs and quicker recharge times.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  8. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    I've collected Treadmill Motor's for that use. Got three of them. Just don't got anything to actually transfer the energy to power. Don't know what to get.
     
  9. JasonJ

    JasonJ Guide

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    Unless everyone is keeping their solar charging and generating equipment in a Faraday cage, it'll be toasted by the EMP... and useless. Especially important for the power invertor, less so the panels themselves. Just heads up... just because it's disconnected or disassembled doesn't make it immune to EMP effects.
     
  10. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Oh of course you are correct but didn't OP mention keeping stuff in one? I could be combining more than one post in my mind.
     
  11. JasonJ

    JasonJ Guide

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    Yeah I guess it could be implied... still good for those that just popped in to read this and perhaps aren't aware.

    Realistically for most, the loss of power over a long period of time is going to be mostly a problem due to no refrigeration of food or medications. Heating can be sorted out, water supply can be sorted out, but a constantly fresh supply of food, especially once our shelf stable items are gone, that's going to be an issue for most. There is no going down to Kroger to get a pack of chicken breasts; no running down to teh meat shop to grab a 5lb pack of ground beef for a burger party... anything like that will spoil within days.

    Pretty much, learn to live as if it were the 1870s and you'll be ok. Don't, and you will suffer .. or die.
     
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  12. 556mp

    556mp Bushwhacker Vendor Bushclass I

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    That and/or be the ultimate MacGyver.

    This is one thing that I wont be concerned with until it happens. Then Ill see what is around and what I can do. Until then, it's just a fun thought.
     
  13. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Find an old tractor to rig up as a generator ;p emp may fry circuits but old diesel tractors can be easily modified to produce electricity. I saw a few down on Long Island after Sandy running some houses. You can find some up in northern NY floating around as remnants of the ice storms in the 90s. I know you do some farming so figured I'd mention it.
     
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  14. 556mp

    556mp Bushwhacker Vendor Bushclass I

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    The commercial dairy has a HUGE one so that they can still get water and all that to the cows when the power is out. It's crazy. They can run it on one of the big 4x4 articulated international. Ive always wanted a smaller one to run on our little Ford 2n or MF 135, but they are not inexpensive.
     
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  15. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    Knowledge Way's Nothing is a big motto here. Well knowledge weighs as much as this shitty laptop, 1TB External Hard Drive, and all these books. The way I see it is I can find plans to make the traps, but without a printer, I don't have much a way to store the plans. I plan on filling this external hard drive up and filling the laptop up so I can wrap it in tin foil and throw it in the trash can. Once the can is full, I can seal it. So next month I hope to get the Harbor Freight solar panel kit and possibly yank the car batteries which I assume will be left alone by most people. We will for sure have three of them which is enough for the other things I have. Most of what I am packing away is chargers for batteries as well as flashlights. I might pack a portable DVD player seeing how CD's and DVD's aren't effected by a EMP. I'm also going to be wrapping these three Treadmill Motors in foil and then putting it in it's own container to protect it. These things are big and heavy.

    Is there anything that I should store away that doesn't come with the Harbor Freight Solar Panel Kit? As well as what should I store away to help with the Treadmill Motors for power? Bridge Rectifiers? Also are cables effected by a EMP?
     
  16. ShawnH

    ShawnH Tracker

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    I think everyone forgets that should an attack on our power grid succeed, the lack of electricity will be the least of our problems. The amount of power it takes to keep the pumps cooling all these great nuclear power plants will mean we will likely just die from radiation poisoning anyway so...
     
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  17. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    We're not so stupid to not have a back up plan for that. In fact I'm pretty sure loads of people have posted it. I can tell you that if there are any trucks running for fuel transport, they will most likely be going straight to the power plants to run the generators to keep them cooled.
     
  18. JasonJ

    JasonJ Guide

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    Really, any machine that can spin a shaft can be used as the main component in a generator... now go get some metal hoops and wrap a crap load of wire around it... you know the rest.. we've all done this as a kid. It's crude, might not generate a lot of electricity, but it could help.

    US nuclear power plants don't work that way- not like the Japanese Fukushima plant. Our plants are self-cooled and for the most part thermal and runaway and nuclear meltdown are mostly improbably/impossible. Our reactors, while old, self-regulate the reaction and when nothing is done with the reaction control rods, they remain in place and shut down the reaction as opposed to stopping it from carrying on. It's a big deal and still a critical situation, but not as much as people all seem to think.

    There is a misconception that all nuclear power plants work the same, Fukushima, 3-mile island, Chernobyl, etc are the exceptions. Plus, for every electrical or computer controlled operation, there are manual overrides in place that can be activated to open stuck relief valves, open coolant flows, etc.

    If we are talking pandemic cataclysms, I'd be more concerned over a biological threat than nuclear or EMP.
     
  19. batmanacw

    batmanacw Guide

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    You may be over estimating the effects of an emp.
     
  20. batmanacw

    batmanacw Guide

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    He is talking about the cooling pools for spent rods.
     
  21. dmangler

    dmangler Scout

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    I didn't wanna chime in here because the doom and gloom isn't really my style. I take life 1 day at a time and just roll with it. However, I think your getting too hung up on your gadgets & electronics. Why don't you try doing a weekend trip in your home/apartment with no electricity period. No nothing, no phones, no stove, nothing. See how it goes and post a report about it. You talk about saving thins to hard drivers & whatnot, I find this flawed logic in reference to your concerns. Books don't need batteries. If you need information from the internet, go to your local library and start compiling your own library by printing off topics of interest. Bind the pages in binders and label them for your own reference ie food prepping, hunting, fishing, shelter building etc. There is no way you can retain all that information in your head unless you spend a lifetime doing it. (I suck at knots) so I have a lot of knot tying references.
    Just a thought.
     
  22. vdeal

    vdeal Scout

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    Not necessarily true. Many items - especially older ones will be unaffected by an EMP. The key is having a long run of wire that acts as an antenna to channel the EMP impulse. Without that the pulse will do less damage. Some electronics will be toast but not all. The Oak Ridge Laboratory had this to say about automobiles - "An NEMP would probably not affect most cars, despite modern cars' heavy use of electronics, because cars' electronic circuits and cabling are likely too short to be affected. In addition, cars' metallic frames provide some protection. However, even a small percentage of cars breaking down due to an electronic malfunction could cause traffic jams."

    You might want to check out this article and go to the end to read the Myths section.
     
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  23. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I have steel cabinets and filing cabinets for Faraday cages.
    My system is a battery bank, much of the house already runs on except the frig and swamp cooler .
    I don't power up the 10 KW inverter except for testing or till I need it.
    I have been buying solar panels , a wind mill and batteries for years a little at a time and it pays off for me.
    Still on the grid for shop equipment , but for the most part my electric bill is about $25. month .
    If the over cast is blocking the sun then I have a on grid battery charger that compensated for the loss .
    alternatively I have a 6500 watt diesel gen and several smaller gas driven generators , even a small engine alternator strictly for charging the bank, a few gas engine driven air compressors too . It is advised NOT to run an electric motor air compressor on a generator , the starting amps are usually too much for either unit to survive very long .
    My plan is once the CME or EMP attack is over , the refrigeration will need power till all the perishable foods are either consumed or canned or dried or made jerky .
    I have gas refrigerators and some 12 volt units I may employ depending on the nature of the event, for storing medicines my friends are dependent on.
    Currently I'm in the market for more batteries both to add to my stores and to replace some that are well past their due date . I don't discard the used batteries but plan to restore or rebuild them over time. Regardless the lead is still useful .
    This accumulation is over 50 years in the making , and though I'm not near as smart as the pros here, learn as I go and make do, and it works for me.
     
  24. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

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    I'm thinking after EMP I'm not gonna have time or worry about having power, there will be too much to worry about besides that. Flashlights would be my main concern at that point.

    If I were thinking of making power it would probably be in the wind/water, or bicycle powered types of things.

    Mechanical power for stuff like water pumps and stuff like that, you know, things most people have abandoned for tech, will be really popular again.
     
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  25. Lichen

    Lichen Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I run a Luna duel-battery system in my FJC and will be ordering one of those. Thanks.
     
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  26. haunted

    haunted Guide

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    old point style generator
     
  27. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    Don't know if bike powered is a good idea. If getting food is a problem, I wouldn't want to burn calories I don't have for power.
     
  28. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    This is the apocalypse North Korea wants to unleash
    DAY Zero: the lights go out, planes fall from the sky. Year One: 90 per cent of the US population is dead. This could be the nightmare of a North Korean attack.
    http://www.news.com.au/technology/t...h/news-story/e768f8955cdad6527445d319ccb53274

     
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  29. dmangler

    dmangler Scout

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    It would be nice if Crazy D put a Tomahawk through Fatties bedroom window and be done with this.
     
  30. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    What happens after the EMP will be much worse than losing power. Most of the preps you will need will have very little to do with electricity at all. If it were a massive event we would eat ourselves up from within to the point of weakness and then that's when the invasions would start.

    Not a good scenario.
     
  31. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    N. Korea doesn't have the supply lines to invade pretty much anything but S.Korea. A lot of the food the population eats is from the UN as is. If we wanted to cripple N Korea all we would have to do is stop sending the food. Most of the food is from the good ol USA and s. Korea... go figure.
     
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  32. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    True, but that wasn't my point. When the lights go out, the people lose their minds. After a while, if they don't come back on, then things get serious. All an invading army, any army for that matter, would have to do is wait for us to destroy ourselves. Easy pickings after that.
     
  33. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Except to be perfectly honest it won't happen. I've worked my fair share of catastrophic events and while in some areas there is looting etc it's never as bad as it is portrayed. Most people help each other if needed yada yada. What you'd need to incite desperation is for it to be disease related where people become afraid of helping others and fear human contact. Otherwise as Americans we tend to show extreme resiliency in the face of catastrophe.
     
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  34. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    All very true, @Vanitas , but this is where it's hard to know. We haven't ever seen anything like this before, so we won't know until it happens. I've read about EMP quite a bit, and I am under the impression that the odds of this ever happening are below 1%, since it would have to be just right to work and the retaliation from our government would mean who ever did it would be wiped off the face of the earth. Even a crazy half starved NORK could figure that those aren't good odds.
     
  35. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    NO fire department .
    What's your home made of ?
    What preparations have you made for such an event ?

    NO police department,
    How will you secure your perimeter ?
    Now more than ever, there are more liberal law ignoring people owning guns, and plan to use those guns to take your stuff.
    One only need to look at their track record to prove my point.

    No hospitals or medical facilities .
    Where will you get help, or antibiotics ?
    First aid skills only go so far , how about surgery ? broken arms feet disease ,and so on.

    No sewer ,
    nor water to wash and cook food .
    How far will you have to go to fetch water ?
    Are you prepared to be filtering it , and testing it against contaminants most filtration systems are not prepared to remove. Iron, salt, radiation, solvents,,,,,,

    Weather will continue to change and with out the means to heat or cool, life will be a whole different world.

    Invading forces are very likely when we are weakest . How will you organize , whom will you trust ?
     
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  36. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Trust me... if we can survive entire states being out of power for weeks I think we will do fine. Sandy wiped out most of Long Island, part of Jersey, part of the Hudson Valley, a huge chunk of CT, All of RI pretty much and a chunk of MA. I worked 126 hours a week for 6 weeks getting the areas assigned to me up and running. Out of that huge area there was only one small area of looting that was bad enough we had to wait for military to get control in order to do work. Most people's fears are unfounded but better to be prepared than not be.
     
  37. crewhead05

    crewhead05 caffeine, nicotine, knives and nature. Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Wow, very
    condescending response and a not so subtle dig at this country and its people.

    Name me a defence against a nuclear detonation? If a person with nothing to lose gets hands on a nuke then there isnt much that could stop them. On North Korea we might be able to shoot down a missle but its not 100% fail safe. With the advancements of nuclear technology smaller nuke packages are becoming more relevent of a threat. All that combined with a porous border leaves us quite suceptible to those who believe America is "The great satan"
     
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  38. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    People are so keen on a invasion when there are plenty of allies in the world who help. Texas alone has 28.449 million citizens. Texas is really known for it's firearms and if one person has a single firearm, they have more. So with that in mind, I don't really fear a invasion.
     
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  39. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    This is a bull crap point. I've never seen people come together more than during a disaster in this country. The ONLY time I see this happening is years into a disaster. And I say AGAIN! We do not need power to maintain order in this country. That's a proven point.
     
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  40. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Agreed. There are plenty of guns in the country. The thing is.... how unlikely this is.

    @Vanitas has it right. If the Eeeee Mmmmm Pee is what gets people prepared then I'm ok with that. I prep for what is real, but the trickle down leaves me fairly well prepared for many things. This is how things work out when you've been doing it for a long time.

    We are much more likely to be killed by cancer, heart attack or even a car accident than to ever have to survive an EMP attack.
     
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  41. CharClothed

    CharClothed Supporter Supporter

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    It sure is a more peaceful disaster compared to most. I mean after the planes fall and the power plants are stabilized.
     
  42. HeadyBrew

    HeadyBrew Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    I have to say, despite a little “index finger to the chest” sort of tone with the above reply, there are many solid points and some that I tried making in a similar and related thread. Some might decry and vilify globalism, but one thing it has done is intertwine the major economies to such a degree that it ensures stability and security. To disrupt it would cause untold pain to the primary actors and the secondary and tertiary.

    As said -Russia does not have the capability to invade. They are not in good financial straits with oil prices depressed and rampant corruption. China is far too dependent on us to support their own economy and keep their populace working and happy. They have enough problems with varying separatist groups and regions and don’t wish to create any opportunities for those areas to become even more unsettled. What we should be concerned with is moving more and more towards isolationism as that is only creating a vacuum and an opening for them and others to forge new alliances and trade partnerships.

    We should be truly concerned when so many other countries are in fact no longer so dependent on our economy and our leadership. It’s at that point when we are no longer needed that we will be most vulnerable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  43. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Still arnt vulnerable then. The afgans beat back the Russians with supplied arms... pretty sure our population has far more arms than that. Also, as terrorist groups have shown, homemade explosives are not that difficult to produce... just ask some of the rednecks around. I'm just saying that the cost to whatever invading force was ever dumb enough to decide to try it would be so high they couldn't stomach it... both in lives and money. shit there are towns in Northern NY that could hold off the Canadian military by themselves with all the arms they have lol.
     
  44. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter

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    This thread is depressing, all of this hand wringing and worry over a doomsday event that in all probability will never come to pass, and that if it does, forces outside ones ability to survive will surely pop up that even the best planning can't prepare against.
    Many people today spend so much of their time, energy, and money worrying and preparing for something that will likely never happen that they sacrifice much of the good in their lives that could be happening today if they'd just stop and enjoy what they have now.
    We as a family prepare for short term power failures, storms, and interruptions in normal supply lines, we know that we are preparing not for if something will happen along those lines but when, and past that we don't worry about those things that probably won't happen.

    It's a good way for me and mine, of course your mileage may differ. :42:
     
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  45. Crazysanman

    Crazysanman Supporter Supporter Bushclass II

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    The US is the mightiest nation on earth. No other nation can go toe to toe with us and win. Our power grid is our single point of failure, or Achilles heel.

    You don't need a massive army, navy or air force to launch an EMP attack. You don't need ballistic missiles. You don't need to be able to produce miniaturized nuclear weapons. All you need is a stolen nuclear device from a bankrupt ex-Soviet Union country and a weather balloon.

    @Vanitas has mentioned several massive natural disasters that we have rebounded from, and he's correct, those types of disasters show how Americans can come together and help each other out. However, those events are nothing like a successful EMP attack. In Sandy and Katrina and Harvey, only a small part of the US was impacted. Electrical generators still worked, gas pumps still functioned. Cell phones and computers still worked. The roads weren't littered with wrecked vehicles and vehicles that won't start. Rail service still ran. People and supplies could be brought in by truck in a few hours to help with recovery. Planes didn't fall out of the sky. Police and fire department communications still worked. Some homes and hospitals and other buildings never lost power, others got it back within hours. Food and medicine and bottled water was still produced in other areas of the country and sent in to help. We had advanced warning of all of those events and emergencies were declared before them that allowed local and federal governments to create plans to deal with them and more importantly to stockpile and stage relief supplies and responding personnel to begin immediate recovery efforts. That is nothing at all like an EMP attack.

    After an EMP no help will come. Our roads will be clogged with vehicles that will never run again. Our airports will be damaged by aircraft stalled on runways that will never move, and many will be damaged or destroyed by planes that were taking off or landing when the EMP struck. Our rail lines will be blocked by trains that will never run again on tracks that cannot be switched. There will be no harbor pilots or buoys or radios or radars to guide foreign ships safely into our ports and no cranes or forklifts or other machinery to unload cargo from those ships. Large parts of Canada and Mexico would be impacted by the EMP as well, making ground transportation of aid from those countries difficult to impossible. Imagine trying to drive a convoy full of food or medicine through an EMP-ravaged Mexico and get it all the way to New England without it getting attacked and plundered along the way.

    An EMP is by far the single most devastating event that could occur to the US. Our way of life is based on trucking and electricity and we cannot continue as a society without them.
     
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  46. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    It won't be as bad as claimed according to tests that have been done. If you read the popular mechanics article only 6 of 55 vehicles tested even had to be restarted and still ran even though some had what was described as nuisance damage.

    We'd probably lose substations but not all of them... replacement parts are fairly easy to get for the ones that arnt solid state (solid state is not affected by emp). A lot of substations are solid state still.

    One should always be prepared but any nation dumb enough to try it would become a nuclear wasteland since our nuclear capability is shielded from emp attack.

    I'd be more worried about the radioactive fallout personally
     
  47. HeadyBrew

    HeadyBrew Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Do you honestly believe that? Serious question, no snark. Do you think that NATO allies and basically the whole of Europe and rest of the world would just shrug? That Canada and Mexico would do the same (assuming a hypothetical EMP didn’t affect the entire continent)?

    I don’t buy that. It’d be devastating and it’d a huge undertaking on a massive scale to start sending relief, but I refuse to believe that the rest of the world, the UN (as ineffective as they can be at times) would simply sit by and allow over 300 million to just fend for themselves and die. Our govt has hardened assets and will be calling in every favor and activating every agreement/alliance they have. Again, assuming the entire continent isn’t affected, there would be mass migrations to Canada and Mexico and beyond. I live right on the border and if I knew that Canada was less impacted, I’d consider taking my family across the Peace bridge, I guess becoming a refugee.

    The country would never be the same and yes, many of the least independent and unhealthy individuals would be lost quickly. The world would look different when we came collectively out of the other side of such event, but we wouldn’t simply be left to rot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  48. crewhead05

    crewhead05 caffeine, nicotine, knives and nature. Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Ridiculing the USA and its people on a forum called BCUSA, that’s a bold move cotton, lets see how it works out for you.

    Got to love a response that starts off with “It is by no means meant as condescending” and ends with “Put aside your political colours or religion, put down your patriotism, chauvinism, ingnorance, prejudice or arrogance and wake up.”

    I would happily have a conversation with you point by point on the response you offered but this isnt the forum to do so. But as an overarching response to very specific events ill offer this. It is very easy to trace the geopolitics of today back to the end of WWII. From the US and its allies trying to stop the spread of communism (which is associated with way more deaths than Nazi Germany ever was) to trying to keep Israel from being driven into the sea from enemies on three sides. Even the attempt to stop total genocide in some countries. Yes its much easier to keep your head in the sand during times of conflict than to take a stand for something. Its much easier to wait to the end and then point fingers when all is said and done.

    Your willful blindness to the enemies of America is astonishing. Spend 10 minutes looking up the gatherings in Iran where the leader is leading death to America speeches. Ill help you get started here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92myDzAFgU4

    With North Korea, they have vowed to wipe America from the earth and whose missiles are now capable of hitting US territory and has continued its development of nuclear capable weapons. Well when you are threatened you can either take it as serious or not, right now we are posturing as Kim Jong Un means what he says.

    Do I feel like a nuclear event is imminent, no. Do I think it would be possible yes. Do I think an invasion by another county would happen in my lifetime, no. Do we have our own internal problems, yep sure do. Do I think Sweden has its own set of issues, yes.

    Finally, Do I think it is extremely arrogant to ridicule someone working out a thought process by taking a stand of moral and intellectual superiority as you have. Yes, I surely do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  49. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

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    Puerto Rico is a good example of massive poer loss.
    Still about 78 percent of the island without power.
    Crime rate is up but no riots or major looting.
     
  50. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I've been through enough disasters in my life time, to respect any and multiple scenario possibilities .
    An EMP or CME is not going to be the kind of disaster that only lasts for a few days , more like a few years , and not just one town or one state . the whole country will be crippled and no one to help .
    I have to consider the worst case scenario .
    Even if all that is lost is communications , this country and others are fully dependent on wireless every thing, That is our Achilles heal .Every cell tower and cell phone, radio and radio station lost , wouldn't take much to accomplish.
    The electrical grid including what's in your homes, is a giant antenna alone, not to mention all the steel framed structures covering the planet .
    An so no EMP or CME or caldera erupting occurs, floods and earth quakes still do with increasing regularity .
    If you haven't noticed the earth is at a new tilt , which is a good reason for the changes in the weather patterns and more geologic activity .
     

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