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Pros and Cons of the Forward Mounted Scout Scope

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Sopwith Camel, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Tracker Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    I asked this in one of the scout rifle threads but didn’t get much response, so I thought I would make a separate thread.

    I wanted to ask about the advantages or disadvantages of the forward mounted “scout scope”. And before someone chimes in, I know that there is more to a scout rifle than a scope mounted in front of the action (Powerful caliber, length under 40”, weight under 6.6lb, Ching sling, etc.), but the forward mounted low power scope is the defining feature of the scout rifle.

    The main arguments for the forward mounted scope:

    -It is faster to acquire the reticle and you can shoot with both eyes open giving a wide field of view.

    -The rifle can be grasped around the action and carried at the balance point.

    -You can use stripper clips (If you have a stripper clip guide).

    -The forward mounting prevents breath fogging of the scope lens in winter.


    The main arguments against the forward mounted scope:

    -It is no faster to acquire the reticle than on a low power scope mounted conventionally over the action.

    -The forward mounted scope makes it hard or impossible to see the reticle in low light or with the sun over your shoulder.

    What kind of experiences have people had with forward mounted scopes magnifying scopes? Do they work well in the field or no? In looking over the scout rifle threads I see that some rifles have forward mounted scopes, others have conventionally mounted scopes, and a few have irons or red dots so it would be interesting to hear what kind of sighting system people like best.
     
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  2. GKiT

    GKiT Supporter Supporter

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    I'll add a con: looks stupid.

    But I guess to each their own...:D
     
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  3. chndlr04

    chndlr04 Scout

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    Add to the pro list . In event of fast sighting and shooting, there is no chance of scope bite. Buddy learned the hard way. No it wasnt me thankfully.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
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  4. Swampdog

    Swampdog Supporter Supporter

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    I get the idea and reasons for the "scout scope" being mounted forward but I am so use to hunting with the conventional mounted scopes... old habits are hard to break.
    I have a Ruger Mini-30 Ranch Rifle with a conventional mounted Leupold M-8 4X scope, that I consider being a "scout rifle."
     
  5. Grizzly Dave

    Grizzly Dave Tracker

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    If you go to the search engine and type in Scout rifle there are 25 pages of discussion on pros and cons:dblthumb:
     
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  6. ezra45

    ezra45 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I have 2. I would say the main con is the sun over your shoulder. Looking stupid, low light visibility of crosshairs (I don't shoot at game after dark), lack of speed of acquisition,etc. are all irrevelant to me. I shoot with both eyes open, my Leupold and Leatherwood have crosshairs that work fine for at least a half hour before or after the sun comes up or goes down, and as far as looking stupid, whatever.
    I like them and they work fine for me...

    Regards,

    ezra
     
  7. CaliforniaCanuck

    CaliforniaCanuck Guide

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    Hold one before you buy. This is 100% personal preference.

    For everything that a scout rifle is intended for, my sight choice is the A2 style peep sights.
     
  8. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Tracker Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Actually, the scout rifle threads mostly just show a lot of rifles all set up differently, not many discussions on why a particular scope and mounting configuration works for them. My question is this: does a forward mounted magnifying scope give advantages to the shooter or is it a hindrance as critics of the scout rifle claim?
     
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  9. Hawkcreek

    Hawkcreek Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I have three rebuttals:

    1. I've never used a rifle with a conventional scope that I couldn't shoot with both eyes open. I'll admit the highest power scope I own is a 4-12x so I suppose I can't say that I can do it with any higher than that. But I've never understand that argument for scout scopes.

    2. I've lived my entire life out in the desert and was sent by the military to serve in another desert a few times. Never once have I had issues with the sun behind me blurring a scope. Not with a scout set up or with a conventional. Either I've been very lucky or it's a lot of regurgitated silliness.

    3. Last but not least in my limited experience a COMPARABLE conventional scope doesnt give you any more usable shooting light than a scout scope. I say comparable because a 3-9x40 quality scope doesn't seem any brighter to me than the 33mm objective on a scout scope. If it's dark and I need to shoot something I'll use a light or night vision and a laser.

    I freely admit to being a Leupold fanboy but I believe their VX-R 1.5-5x to be the best of the scout scope options. It can be mounted further back than most scout scopes but it's still further forward than a conventional scope. The biggest problem with it is that it is rather large and heavy for a "scout" scope.
     
  10. Bronco68

    Bronco68 Tracker

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    I own and hunt with a Ruger GSR in .308, and find the quick sight acquisition of the LER scope to be slightly advantageous over the conventional scope position. It would be comparable to snap shooting with a bow, only more consistent over longer distances. Over all my shooting distances are within 75-100 yards, so a conventional scope with higher magnification isn't really all that necessary. I have however hit a a minute of deer torso sized rock with this setup at a laser ranged 437 yards; not that I would actually try it on a deer in real world conditions. :14:
     
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  11. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Guide

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    I also own two and like them allot.

    My first and oldest is actually a lever Marlin .375 Winchester. (Not a true scout in every sense of the word.) It wears a 1X Nikon mounted on a XS scout mount. I bought it when XS first offered it, so only about 15-18 years ago. I dont use it allot, but I do like it allot. it also has there excellent peep sites but they can not be co witnessed.

    [​IMG]

    My second is a Interarms bolt in 308, this one has a 2 3/4 power Burris scope, rigid iron peep sites and a composite stock. its my back up hunting rifle when I am using high power rifles. Truth be told, friends have used it more than I have and never once have I received a complaint. It shoots very well, is quick to the shoulder and asks little of the shooter to deliver the goods.

    CW
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  12. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    GERMAN.png

    Forward mounting of scopes is nothing new. The rifle above was the weapon of choice for Germany’s top sniper in WWII and the 1940’s scopes were just in their adolescence. The guy who ran this rifle was hell on Russians with an obscene number of confirmed kills and alternated between a Russian Nagant with their PU scope, an iron sighted Mauser and this forward scope mounted Mauser. So I guess he subscribed to the “horses for courses” approach to sniping, but I’m sure he would not have used something that did not work or would put himself at more risk than he was already in.

    I don’t shoot a rifle with a forward scope, but I do shoot a pistol with a red dot. Both eyes open and to tell the truth I don’t see around the scope body, my focus is strictly on the dot, and sun from any angle has never been an issue. Granted I do have an intensity control for the dot’s brightness and run a small sun shield on the tube.
     
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  13. designtom

    designtom Scout

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    If you have access to a steep slope for a backstop, try shooting flung clay pigeons with your rifle.

    For me, it felt quite uncomfortable with a conventional scope.

    I actually hit one flyer with my Scout set up.

    Since deer do move, and I've become quite comfortable with my Scout setup, that's what has become my go-to weapon.

    I don't advocate shooting at running deer, but a brisk trot becomes quite manageable if you give them a little lead. (shoot for the front of the animal, and you'll hit the front leg/heart).

    On the con side, my first Scout rifle (put together in the 70's?), has the scope a good bit to far forward. The lens of the scope seams awfully far away/small. I once spotted a small herd of deer 125 yards, and through quite a bit of brush and hemlock boughs. Put my binoculars down, and grabbed my scout rifle. I could see a few deer through the scope, but wasn't 100% on which one was the buck. Had to go back to the binoculars, identify three benchmarks that were around the buck, and threaded a bullet through a small tunnel. If I had a regular rifle, i bet I would have figured out which were does, and where was the buck immediately.

    My 2nd scout rifle has the scope in the correct position, right in front of the bolt. Never had this problem with rifle that is properly proportioned.
     
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  14. gk1

    gk1 Tracker

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    For me the main advantage is that you get the perception of an unlimited field of view. Its hard to explain but its not like looking through a conventional scope - your brain somehow allows your dominant eye take over and you get a magnified image. This effect is quite subtle and only works at low magnification.

    Overall you have the impression of an infinite field of view but magnified on one side and you are aware of both views.
    I'm not sure if my explanation makes it worse...

    A good example is a goat hunting trip l went on. I was using a steyr scout with the leupold ier scout scope while my friend had the same rifle but with a leupold 2.5-8 mark 4 scope. We stumbled upon a group of 9 goats that started running. We started shooting at them at about 150 meters and l got 6 down in the same time it took him to despatch 3 goats (the last goats were shot about 250 m away). We are both about the same as far as our marksmanship goes. The difference was purely down to how quick l was able to locate the next goat between shots and also how quick l was able to make the shot. Basically l was easily seeing where the goats were and just placing the cross hairs onto the chest.
    Think of a scout scope as a magnified and more precise red dot sight. No one disputes that red dots are quicker - a scout scope gives your more precision.
     
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  15. ezra45

    ezra45 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    To clarify a point above: with a forward mounted scope and the sun above and nearly directly behind me, the view in the scope does not blur, it flares out on the rearmost glass surface. To minimize this, I have a 2" tube made of black painted cardboard in my pack that I slip over the ocular that I can adjust forwards or backwards. If the sun is really directly behind me, my head will block the glare.

    Regards,

    ezra
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  16. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Tracker Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    The ZF-41 is a good example of a scout scope and of the problems that users of them encountered. ZF-41s were intended primarily to arm regular German infantrymen (Rather than snipers) and to give them a sighting advantage in combat conditions. Soldiers disliked the scope because it was difficult to sight through in low light and the low magnification wasn’t helpful in shooting at long distances. The Germans made quite a few ZF-41s but if you look at photos and film footage from the war, you hardly ever see them in use. I snapped a pic of a couple in the NRA museum in Fairfax a few years ago (That’s a great museum to visit BTW).

    NFM 27.jpg

    NFM 28.jpg
     
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  17. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Tracker Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    That's interesting, so the forward mounted scope gave you a genuine speed advantage in picking out and engaging the animals? Have you ever had trouble with sun or shadows making it difficult to sight through the IER scope?
     
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  18. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Awesome photos! Thanks for posting them.
    Scopes from just 10 years ago are very different compared to today’s. Scope technology changes pretty quickly. You can only imagine how bad a 70 year old technology scope was. I’d guess the number of soldiers in any given unit that used a scoped rifle before the war could be counted on one hand, and that without a thumb. Actually the number of men who even used any rifle at all would not be a big number in general. Given that scoped rifles were a pretty new thing and I’d imagine the training on them was lacking too it’s no wonder they were not overwhelmingly well received.
     
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  19. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    the biggest advantage of a scout setup is you can mount on a rifle that's generally not made for scopes see old military rifles without any permanent modifications to the rifle.
    scoping those old rifles all require drilling and tapping the receiver.
    As to your other points

    you can shoot any optic with both eyes open and aquire targets very quickly. the higher your magnification the smaller your field of view scouts scopes generally are low magnification scopes/pistol scopes with l0ng eye relief so they have a larger field of view than you would have say at x22

    as to the balance point all scopes generally balance in the middle somewhere that's more a function of how the rifle is made.

    most rifles that use stripper clips to load from the top were given a side mount scope like the pu scope and zf39 scopes on the mauser and moisan respectively the sf 39 also was directly mounted over the receiver fairly often

    fogging is only really the realm of cheap crappy scopes ive engaged targets in everything from -28F to in eastern Europe with both SVD PSO1 and nightforce NSX5.5-22x56 to 120F in Iraq using leupold and Schmidt and bender. as well as acogs and various other thermal and red dot sights.

    fogging has never been an issue on any of them.


    scope bite only happens when your not paying attention or don't know what your doing.

    I think honestly it is all personal preference. from a practical standpoint at short ranges I think its negligible difference your going to see a lot more performance gaps when you start shooting farther out

    for scopes of same quality and size you are correct the light transmission is negligible. its when you start into things like 30-35mm main tubes with 56mm objective lenses on your top line scopes that that will really come into play same with seing bullet trace not happening on cheap scopes.

    but it seems our experiences are similar

    I think quick shooting has more to do with the weight and ergonomics of the rifle itself than the optic example my NSX scope 5.5-22 magnification on a 7,75lb weatherby vanguard in 300wm is fast my 16.5 m40a5 or barret not so much



    it was an option it was never the go to choice. the ZF39 was the choice scope for wermacht snipers and was in no way a scout scope neither was the Russian PU scope
    as for the body counts that's generally a correlation to the number of targets of opportunity that are available any conflict where there are thousands of men fighting in a small area in a conventional war its not hard to do.
    hitting moving targets is all about math my dude, I can hit a deer running or a man at almost any distance 1st round. all you need to know (real simple version) is how fast the targets moving how long it will take your bullet to get there and you adjust accordingly
    its a great little museum if any yall are in the south east when I get back to the states I have a 400m range at the house and a 100m pistol/cqb range we can play at and bbq
     
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  20. Bax 40

    Bax 40 Supporter Supporter

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    PRO

    No scope cuts on the fore head.

    In my brother in laws wedding pics we both have fresh half moon cuts and bruises on our head over our right eye!

    We managed to sneak in a Groundhog hunt in the morning while the bride was gettin ready.

    Shooting prone down hill at hogs on the opposite hill is NOT cool at all!

    The old 3x9 Leopold got me first, BIL thought that was hilarious till another hog popped up and it was his turn, he found out what fun it was.

    300 H&H Winchester aint a groundhog gun anyway but thats what we had available.


    Larry
     
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  21. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    But it must have been a blast (pardon the pun) when you connected :D
     
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  22. Bax 40

    Bax 40 Supporter Supporter

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    Yes , 130 grain 30 cal at about 3500 fps makes quite a splash (pun intended!)i
     
  23. gk1

    gk1 Tracker

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    I can't ever recal issues with sunlight or shade whilst hunting. However there was an occassion when it was getting dark at the range and l had a bit of difficulty in holding the crosshairs on a smallish target. The low brightness with the low magnification was making it tough but this has never been an issue in the field because the targets are bigger than a 4 inch circle.

    However as l mentioned, l would of had a harder time with a red dot at x1 magnification than at x 2.5 magnification. I consider red dots as suited to ranges less that 150m while a scout scope is good for me to double that. I shot a red deer at 275 m (lasered) and it was fine but l don't think l wouls of been comfortable at more than 300 m. If l know l'm varmitting or shooting across valleys, l'll bring a long range rifle, however for 0-300m work, l'll take a scout rifle.
     
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  24. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    red dots are fine for shooting to 300m as long as you have a good view eo tech has a 1 moa dot aimpoints 2 moa with an eotech your looking at a 3 inch group at 300m and aimpoint 6. and for minute of man you can use an eotech nicely out to 500m even on a small 545/556 iron sights also work very well at 600 and under
     
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  25. reloader7.62

    reloader7.62 Tracker

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    Have the scout scope setup on my M44 Mosin,the S & K mount cost as much as the rifle and I just have a cheap 3 x 7 x 32 scope on it but the mount and scope have been rock solid for about 7 years know. Shoots decent 5 shot groups at 50 yds. as well.
    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Scout

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    My $0.02:

    I like an IER scope, vs. LER scopes, as exemplified by the Leupold VX-2 1.5-4x28 scope on my Ruger GSR.

    [​IMG]

    It's able to be mounted very low but forward of the rear backup sight, and doesn't interfere with rapid bolt manipulation like a conventionally mounted scope can. Yet, it's not as susceptible to glare as LER scopes.
     
  27. oldpinecricker

    oldpinecricker Supporter Supporter

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    OK. I'd love to see more about this Marlin in 375. Probably a beast on those whitetails and blackbear.
     
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  28. gk1

    gk1 Tracker

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    I'm sure its possible for some, but for my eyes l just don't get the precision with a red dot. I have a Docter 2 moa red dot and there is no way l can shoot that as accurately a scout scope. I even have a 2x Aimpoint (an older one) and l like this but the red dot is still not as precise as a cross hair.
     
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  29. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    I haven't spent enough time with a scout scope to list pros and cons, but I can comment on one of the claimed "advantages" - the idea that the scout scope has the advantage of shooting with both eyes open. I've been shooting with both eyes open for decades with conventional scoped rifles. It surprises me to hear that so many still don't. When still hunting, I carry the rifle with a variable scope on the lowest setting, and it is quick to acquire a sight picture. If the stock is properly fitted to the shooter (mine aren't always, but I strive for it), it is quicker still.

    I never thought I might need a scout rifle, until Cooper started talking about them. That was a long time ago, and I still don't own one (although I do have a lever gun with peeps). I can't think of a time when I missed a shot opportunity with a scoped rifle and thought, "I would have got it with a scout rifle".
     
  30. ezra45

    ezra45 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Went to the range with my "stupid looking","poodle shooter"," non-scout rifle", Ruger GSR 5.56 today. Shot it at 200 and 300 yards: it was minute of 3" AR500 steel disk for 5 shots at both distances with Black Hills blue box 55 gr. hp rounds.
    This is why I bought it. MDTac 10 shot AI style polymer mags.
    All shots off a rest,btw. Pack with an Eberlestock rest on the molle.
    Regards,

    ezra image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  31. Gruxxx

    Gruxxx Guide Bushclass I

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    If we could hunt with semi-auto's in my state, I'd love a Springfield SOCOM 16 with a forward optic. Short, fast aquisition, .308...
     
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  32. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    the biggest advantage of my 91/30 scout rifle is the ability to use 5 rnd stripper clips for fast reloads (and cool factor) and the fact that the rear sight was broken when i got it. i removed the sights completely and mounted an NCStar 2.5x scope directly to the dovetail, nice and low. i can hit clay pigeons at 100 yrds with tulammo all day long, from shooting sticks. could comfortably take a deer around 100yrds with this, probably farther but my skill isnt there yet shooting standing.
    stripped and stained the stock dark walnut.

    communist red background to match
    gosh i love this gun...
    12822.jpeg
     
  33. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    The beauty of the forward mounted, low power scope lies in it's ease and speed of (trained) "instinctive" use in the field.

    Properly set up, and mounted as low as possible (e.g. playing card clearance between objective and action) the forward mounted sight allows us to align our weapon to our target with the same efficiency as other "eyes forward" systems, like red dot optics and ghost-ring aperture sights. It's really optimized for snap shooting, rather than static, square range and long range shooting.

    Poorly set up, with the wrong mix of equipment/installation/training, they can be a disaster. Then again, setting a variable scope at highest magnification while hunting in the close woods is a recipe for disaster. But nobody (sane) would suggest that a Leupold 3.5-10x is "stupid".

    Just stupidly employed, perhaps.
     
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  34. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Once upon a time, it was difficult to find a conventional scope with good enough eye relief to allow quick sight acquisition. Then it became more common, but required a huge expense of cash. Not so much anymore. Optics have become so good that it really isn't any big deal to take a fast accurate shot with a conventional mounted variable at 2x or 1x, with both eyes open. As just mentioned, it's a fitting/training issue. If there is an advantage to the forward mount, it must be something more than just quick "eyes open" sight alignment.
     
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  35. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    Good observation. Good scout rifles are set up with the option of mounting a standard optic as desired.

    The 1-4x scopes make terrific working optics, especially with a built in red dot. Best of (most) worlds.
     
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  36. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    With a bit of practice. Assuming you have young eyes. You can hit a man sized target all day long at 500.
    With a good scope anf maybe shimming the barrel and reciever. 700 is easily doable.
     
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  37. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    That is so true. For many years I had a fixed 10 power scope on my one and only rifle back then and I used that for everything from ground hogs, crows and squirrel to deer and bear. As I got older and better jobs I could afford different scopes and rifles and my armory expanded; but I was always attracted to higher powered scopes, with 36 power being about as big as I could hold. I scoped my turkey shotgun a few years ago and put a 1 to 4 power on it and in spite of having much older eyes and a long history with big power these days I’m amazed at how frequently I use the scope at 1.5 power.

    But even today many of my scopes are 4 to 12 power and most frequently I run them at 10 power—old dogs and new tricks --or just plain stupid I guess :D
     
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  38. LFowler

    LFowler Tracker

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    As others have said I think technology has, if not supplanted, at least blunted, the advantages a forward mounted scope may have had. Low Power variables of better quality, more prevalent (and cheaper) box fed bolt actions, clearer optics in general and illuminated reticles.
    As also pointed out, IER scopes seem to eliminated many of the downsides of a LER scope and seem to be a very logical compromise, especially when using a magazine fed rifle.

    For me the chief downside of a LER is the awful FOV, as mentioned there is a bit of offset in the increased visibility you get with your non-sighting eye, but it is still a bit of looking down a straw.

    Two questions:
    1) If cooper had the cornucopia of options available today would he still recommend a LER scope?
    2) should we care? There are dozens of living breathing gurus we can turn to for advice and tutelage without worrying about what some guy from a different time thought.
     
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  39. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Guide

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    Its a long time favorite caliber... hell who and I kidding its its obscure, I LIKE IT!! 7.65 Arg., 357 MAXIMUM, 445 super magnum, 256 Winchester Magnum, 10MM, 357 SIG, now the 25/45...

    Anyhow, I bought a Contender barrel in 357 MAX anc received a Contender barrel in 375 Win instead.. I decided to keep it and re order the maximum. That was my first and I have had at least one so chambered ever since. Its a stomper for sure... a case full of RL7 and a 220g Speer gets me 2200+ fps and YES what ever that bullet hits, falls down quick like. :) I bought thei gun some twenty years back. Its a 375S s few years later, I found a M 375 and bought that too! Its not as nice as this one.

    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Buy one if you can find it, I think you would appreciate it as I do.

    CW
     
  40. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    the biggest concern with a scout scope mounted forward the receiver to the barrel is POI shift after the first shot as the barrel heats and warps and the scope being on the barrel would change its POA in addition to the POI shift from the barrel warping as it heats. but at close distances that the scout mounts generally are used for it would be negligable
     
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  41. brionic

    brionic Blissful simpleton Supporter

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    I suppose it depends on why/who/how/how often you're shooting. Vertical stringing is a legitimate concern with heated pencil-barreled weapons beloved by the 7 lb club, regardless of optics and mounts. How the recreational shooter deals with (or is even aware of) shifts in poa vs poi under various conditions depends on his skill as a rifleman.

    But, point taken, if it doesn't work, find something that does.
     
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  42. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    you speak craziness that boggles my mind.
    i must train for this!
     
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  43. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    Not crazy at all very doable. Maybe not as a scout setup.

    One thing that can greatly improve y our groups.

    Use coke/beer cans to shim bed yoir reciever. And sand out the barrel channel
    And use some ruber gasket material from autozone to make a 1-1.5 in anchor point by front barrel band w rest free floating

    You probbaby cannot get it but 7n1 ammo is amazing in a nagant
     
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  44. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    the shims sound super awesome. just one layer of can?

    also i have at least 1 spam can of 7n1, is great ammo, but so dirty.
     
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  45. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    ? we must use diff 7n1
    it honestly depends on how the fit is on your receiver soviet quality control is not super precise.


    while this is a company making $$ off of what I just told you they do have some of the old soviet manuals posted as well on it and essentially there selling beer cans that have been pre cut to shape but for a good how to they have it pretty succint
    http://acemosinnagant.blogspot.com/
     
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  46. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Actually - unless demonstrated otherwise, I would expect the POI to shift less with the forward mounted scope....if there is any difference at all. Think about it....the scope would be mounted on the thickest part of the barrel, and closer to the end of the barrel (the position/condition of which is what actually determines POI). I'd be surprised if the warpage of that part of the barrel between the scope rings would even be measurable. That claim is one I have a hard time believing.
     
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  47. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    Here's another claim that I find dubious - this time, on the "pro" side. That s the claim that the forward mounted scope allows for a more balanced carry. This would be a legitimate claim, if not for the fact that with today's large-objective scopes, the scope tube is high enough above the receiver to allow for plenty of room for all but the thickest of thumbs to wrap over the top of the receiver. The "pro" people may argue that a) having the scope mounted so high is detrimental to long-range accuracy, or b) having the scope mounted so high makes sight alignment slower. Neither of those claims are true though, because a) AO scopes can be adjusted for parallax for long shots (which we always have time for anyway) and b) sight acquisition speed is more a function of stock fit and angle.

    So - in my mind, the forward mounted scope has no inherent advantage of speed, accuracy, or balance. There must be something else.
     
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  48. 556mp

    556mp Bushmaster Vendor Bushclass I

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    I've had major issues with fogging on both my Vortex Scope, and my glasses. But, only when breaking a sweat in cooler but not cold weather and pulling up on a deer quickly. So much so that I took the scope off and went back to Iron sights.

    I recently figured out the basic math for lead on moving targets at various speeds with my 308. With a perpendicular moving target, even at 2500fps, the lead is a lot more than I had anticipated it would be, even at 50yards. If my math worked out correctly the lead is just under one foot at 50yd.
     
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  49. 556mp

    556mp Bushmaster Vendor Bushclass I

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  50. FarmerJohn

    FarmerJohn Scout

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    But your scopes also on a moving barrel. But its a theory

    Good and cheap way to practice. Get some party baloons amd a rc car inflate and tie to car and have kid drive it while you shoot moving balloons.

    To ad extra challenge. 2 balloons one blue one red and try only to pop red two ballons moviing of their own volition in one set direction or another adds alot of challenge.
     
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