PSK Kits- Discussion

Discussion in 'General Bushcraft Discussion' started by Medic17, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    I thought one was to whittle a spoon. Steady the Buffs and out with the whittling knife! :)

    Here we have SOTP (misspelled "STOP" 'cause it is cooler)" Stop; observe; think; plan. :4:
     
  2. saxonaxe

    saxonaxe Scout

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  3. Bannertail

    Bannertail Scout

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    "In nature there are neither rewards or punishments -- there are consequences." R.G. Ingersoll

    Sure you can make mistakes, but understand the possible cost of doing so.

    The Iditarod musher I mentioned was making the point that if you loose your sled & team. There may be grave consequences.
    For both you and your team.
     
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  4. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    wow, that's got to be some flea collar to cost $50! :53:

    yeah, I agree with the personal part of it as long as we all understand Medic17 asked to discuss a survival kit that is, "Not your primary woods wandering gear... It has to be pocket sized and kept on you so you can't loose it...", so various locations/seasons/climates aside, the basics should all be pretty much the same. if you're a human, that is...

    I'm with you, I don't need to carry a little shard of metal pretending to be a cutting tool if I already 24/7 a good pocket knife. I already carry a pretty full complement of EDC gear so if the worst that could happen, happened, I would be waaaaay ahead of the game with just a pocket knife, lighter, flashlight, phone, cash, and chapstick.

    now, if I head into the outback, I automatically add a couple things like compass, matches, and a whistle on a neck lanyard. this doesn't cover what Medic17 suggested we need - shelter, signalling, hydration - so I'm probably cheating a bit as I would need another layer to satisfy the requirements.

    I do completely agree with his basic premise though - a kit small enough to be carried carried on your person that would allow you to survive for 24-48 hrs before help arrived or you were able to self-rescue.

    the items I listed above can all fit in a sandwich size freezer bag or another pouch that will fit in a pocket or on a belt and whether you agree with the individual brands or models of the items, they represent a minimum solution to needs that is universal to all survival situations.

    I think...

    :4:
     
  5. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    ok, so the takeaway from this is trust in your fallible human self to never make a mistake or have unforseen tragedy occur to you. and if it does and you do get separated from your sled, you deserve to die!!!

    sorry, but I'd just have to laugh in someone's face if they said that to me...
     
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  6. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Chaotic Neutral. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Very good post, and a good thread to read through.
    Barring the simple fun of putting little kits together, which I really like to do, I rarely if ever use them. They are usually full of smaller, worse versions of big stuff I've got in a backpack. (Admittedly, that's kinda the point.) I like to have a water bottle on me whatever outdoor stuff Im doing, so I generally end up with a backpack anyway.
    I'm in complete agreement about the PSK knives; I tried a few times to use one, because they were cool and everyone had one, but a SAK weighs about the same and is much more useful. There was a potentially great thread in January, challenging people to use their PSK knives to perform a few simple camp-oriented tasks; it would be fun to bump it now that the weather's warmer and see some of those PSK knives in action by folks who are comfortable with them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  7. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Hardwoodsman #8 Supporter Bushclass III

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    Hmm, often true, especially if you dont know how to read a map and compass, dont have a psk, dont have bushcraft knowledge and minimal stamina. Without a scenario its hard to discuss the best practice.
     
  8. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Hardwoodsman #8 Supporter Bushclass III

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    @Tebatoz If you get lost goin to the bathroom at night or hunting, fishing, foraging hiking away from basecamp..it would be good to have a pocket psk.
     
  9. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Chaotic Neutral. Supporter Bushclass I

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    I corrected your spelling, there. :4:
     
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  10. Bannertail

    Bannertail Scout

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    That is not what I said, not what I said at all.

    However, read into it what you will.

    I would never be so rude as to laugh in someone's face.
     
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  11. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    One is none, and two is one so two is none. :D
     
  12. WhisperInThePine

    WhisperInThePine Wubba lubba dub dub Supporter

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    Here is what I have carried all winter while setting up timber sales in southern Colorado. I've been working between 7500 to 8000 ft, in ponderosa pine/Gambel oak woods. Cell phone signal is fortunately very good. At the worst this past winter, the snow was a good 4-5 feet deep, requiring snowshoes. The road I could take in summer isn't maintained in winter, so I was snowshoeing in everyday. The hike took a good hour and a half before I could even start working.

    Part of my normal gear layout is:
    Estwing hatchet
    Colored flagging
    Stainless steel water bottle
    3 MREs in the truck
    Rite in the Rain paper, and pens/pencils
    Radio
    Compass, maps, GPS.

    Mora #2, with duct tape on plastic sheath
    A Grabber brand emergency blanket
    Crazy Creek camp chair
    Altoids tin with the following: two pieces of fatwood, bic lighter, signaling mirror, emergency whistle

    Ponderosa is a self pruning tree, so dry dead wood is often found off ground, and in a good size to process (wrist size or smaller). Between the hatchet and my knife, I can process most anything. The colored flagging is used for pre-layouts of boundaries, or marking some important location/item, but it can be used for other purposes as well, and can be written on with my sharpie pen. Stainless steel water bottle can boil and melt snow. MREs can be nice to have, but I don't bring them back with me. I do pack in my lunch though, and a thermos of hot tea - caffeine free.

    I have been wearing all wool, top and bottom, with a wool cap under my hardhat. The camp chair gives me an insulated place to sit, and when folded flat, runs from my shoulders to my pelvis, so I can lay on it and insulate my core. The emergency blanket is bright orange, and offers protection from the elements. I did use the chair as a bedding and the blanket as protection one day when a freak heavy snowstorm appeared out of nowhere, and lasted 30 minutes. The set up worked as well as I had hoped, but my legs did get cold. I hiked out to the truck after that, the forecast had nothing about precipitation that day.

    Fortunately, spring is here and while some patches of snow are still around, the ground is mostly bare now. Temperatures in the upper 60s and lower 70s, and I can get up most of the road that runs near my sales now. But it was a tough winter for working.
     
  13. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

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    no, you didn't and I apologize if you feel I was putting words in your mouth. I don't know anything about dogsledding but I assume you asked the question because some people have been separated from their sled?..

    I have been on the receiving end of that type of answer and, IMO, it's more about the person's ego, than trying to be helpful.

    -"Hey Mister Experienced Scuba Diver, should I carry a can of "Spare Air (TM)" in case I run out of air in my main tank?"
    -"You DO NOT run out of air in your main tank!!"

    OK, yet there are many deaths every year, of beginners and experts, running out of air...

    -"Hey Mr. Rockclimber, should I double up on my protection, biners, runners, slings, belay points in case one of them doesn't work?"
    -"You DO NOT let a single point of protection fail!!"

    sorry, happens all the time...

    -"Hey Mr. Parachute Dude, should I carry an emergency chute?"
    -"Uh.. YEAH!...

    anyway, it's not unusual for a veteran to respond with sarcasm/criticism when asked something by a beginner and it's not helpful. all it does is make that person not ask any more questions.

    for a time I roadraced motorcycles. my first time at Rockingham I had no experience on banking that severe. when I asked a guy in the pit next to me, "what should I watch out for so I don't lose it on the banking?", he responded, "DO NOT lose it on the banking!".

    ummm, yeah. he made feel stupid for even asking that question.

    well guess what? later that weekend we had a full course red flag, ambulance, delay of program, etc., when someone did in fact, lose it on the banking. so I found someone else to ask and he didn't act like it was a dumb question. he explained how a motorcycle experiences a banked turn differently than a flat turn. he wasn't impatient or sarcastic, he just explained the hows and whats and became a good friend and mentor...
     
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  14. Bannertail

    Bannertail Scout

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    No apology necessary, we're all concerned about safely while enjoying our time outdoors.

    I took the musher's statement as using exaggeration to make a point. I should have mentioned that...

    Take care.
     
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  15. wiwoodsman

    wiwoodsman Tracker

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    I saw the title and immediately thought it was a PSK-31 amateur radio setup for camping. Lol
     
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  16. Idabow

    Idabow Scout

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    Where I live in "mostly" suburbia Ohio my knives and fire starting gear would get me through. When I was an airman I had two ruck systems that would get me through 90 % of the world at a moments notice. One was a " temperate " ruck. The other was a sub zero ruck. Clothing was was difference.

    One day I got a call to to pull security on an f 16 crash sight in Michigan during a blizzard. Grabbed the arctic ruck and on the way. Another time got a call to go to panama in December. Got approved shots, grabbed ruck and on the way. Only difference was clothing, sleep system, and gun system.

    Planning for one person is cake. Planning for wife and kids is something else entirely.
     
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  17. andy.t

    andy.t Guide Vendor

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    Agreed. I get hung up on this part.
     
  18. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    a couple of years ago I was asked to put together a PSK for Montana game wardens that would fit into a pocket; lots of different scenarios where wardens could find themselves with an unexpected night out (happened to me twice!)

    here's what I came up with keeping in mind that exposure was the deadliest enemy


    SOL 2 person heatsheet
    ~12' of dyneema cord
    these two items could be used to construct a debris shelter, put a reflective lean-to w/ large fire, etc (these techniques were taught/practiced)
    sparklite and tinder tabs
    UCO storm matches/striker
    a 16 oz beverage bag from a MRE w/ micropur tabs to treat water
    Fox whistle
    all enclosed in a 5x4" alosak

    I think the little kit was in the neighborhood of 5 ounces

    all wardens had a minimum of one powerful light and one sturdy knife and usually are well dressed for the weather

    the sleeve of the jacket it needed to fit

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
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  19. Youcantreadinthedark

    Youcantreadinthedark Chaotic Neutral. Supporter Bushclass I

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    Can I ask - a tab generally treats a liter of water over an hour or so (varies by brand/chemical). If you had half-liter bags, did you just wait half as long, cut the tab in half, or just incidentally double-treat the water in your bag?
     
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  20. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    when I'm backpacking I often use two 16 oz bottles, one is ready to go- the other being treated- I just break the tab in half
     
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  21. Kenneth

    Kenneth Tracker

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    I just watched these videos by Peter Kummerfeldt yesterday, he has been saying the same thing
    1) shelter, orange garbage bag
    2) fire, storm matches and metal match with petroleum cotton balls
    3)signalling, mirror with whistle and orange flagging tape.

    http://outdoorsafe.com/2013/03/12/survival-kit/

    His website is outdoorsafe.com
     
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  22. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    Thank you for the link.

    "Aiming mechanism" for mirror = two fingers and a little knowledge.

    Flagging tape is also fire-starting material.

    Shelter, Royal Blue plastic trash bag. WHAT's A GOOD PLACE TO BUY THEM?
     
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  23. FIELDCRAFTLTC

    FIELDCRAFTLTC Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Great thread topic, and one that certainly is open for a great deal of discussion!

    So, as many of you have discussed, a PSK is situational dependent, and your geography has much to do what should be in it.

    For me, is needed for when I am not out and about in the woods. My PSK is carried in my car or with me (when I was employed) in a Swiss Army Backpack along with my daily things I needed for work. Employers frown on certain things like knives and guns...so one has to be creative. I say when I am not in the woods because when I am out in the woods, even for just a few hours hike, I always, and I mean always have everything I need to stay in the woods comfortably for at least 3 days, 72 hours if you will. Does this mean I always carry a large backpack, no! The first thing in my "kit" is my mind and the skills I have acquired over more than a few years. Like @PMSteve posted, it is about being prepared, and using what God has given you. Some follow the 10Cs. Others the four needs of survival. I was trained, educated on the 10 essentials to wilderness travel developed back in the 30's by a group called the Mountaineers. So my kit regardless of size addresses these 10 essentials to some degree. Like Karl Malden said..."Don't leave home without it(them)". When I go out to the woods, I plan for the unexpected overnight. Therefore, carrying a specific PSK is an unneeded redundancy IMHO.

    Now, regarding my PSK, as I said, this is for when I am NOT venturing into the wild. The majority of the time I am in the Northeastern U.S. This was taken into consideration for my kit. Since my main habitat and AO is the Northeast, my main sheltering in a true survival situation will be a natural shelter (debris hut of some sort), or snow trench lined with pine/spruce bows. With this in mind, I developed my PSK. Pics and description below. Oh, it weighs about 1 1/2 pounds and it will fit into a cargo pocket, albeit snuggly.

    The container is an ESEE mess kit that has been sealed with numerous pieces of Gorilla Tape of varying widths. The Gorilla Tape can be used for anything from repairs of my kit to repairs of me.
    IMG_2770.JPG

    Here are the contents of my PSK. My focus is on fire, shelter(thermoregulation), water, food in that order.
    Fire - I have a fairly complete fire kit: Strike anywhere matches, Ferro rod, tinder bundles, fatwood, and a tea candle. The tea candle can also be used in conjunction with the Kaba emergency blanket to help with thermoregulation.
    Shelter - as I stated, my main shelter would be a natural one, a debris shelter. I have made them and spent many a night in them. Properly constructed, one has no worries. To help, I have a robust emergency blanket. It is .6mils thick and is 59"x82". I also have 50' of Kevlar cordage (black).
    Water - I have three one-liter sealable plastic bags for collection, 4 aqua-pure treatment tablets, and can use the mess kit to boil water.
    Food - I carry two each, two-cup bullion cubes and have a fishing kit. The fishing kit contains 50yds of 10' test spyder wire, a bobber, hooks, and leader, three flies and a lure, and 25' of BCO SERE cordage. Also, the kit contains another tea type candle with an 8hr burn time. I also carry a spool of GI issue snare wire.
    Other Items: I have a very aggressive survival saw, a Mil Issue button compass, a Fresnel lens, a signal mirror, an Opinel knife, a Wolf Creek Hoof PSK, and a small first aid kit. The FAK mainly has items to stave off infection. Wound closures can be handled with the Gorilla Tape.

    IMG_2763.JPG

    Here are a few close ups. Thanks for looking.
    IMG_2769.JPG
    IMG_2766.JPG IMG_2767.JPG IMG_2764.JPG IMG_2768.JPG
     
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  24. aaronu

    aaronu Armchair Bushcrafter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Not the newest thread but a good one, so I'll add my $0.02. Even though this is probably repeating from some other thread.

    I do not have a SOL poncho but maybe should add one.

    One thing about mylar blankets -- they are awesome in some settings but they are no panacea for survival shelter needs. Wrapping up in one can lead to lots and lots of condensation build up. They work better as a vapor barrier and heat reflector, or similar shelter/heat preservation method that keeps them close but not too close.

    Part of any trip is understanding not only of locations (trail head and destination at a minimum), but also the "best chance to get found" direction if, for some reason, staying put is not the best option and I've lost track of where I am in relation to trip locations. And I always have a compass on me.

    I normally EDC a Benchmade folder, keys with a multitool and pill fob, phone and wallet. If I'm going to the woods, I replace that stuff with:

    Swiss army knife (Walker) on a lanyard
    Ferro rod
    Lighter
    sheath knife
    Wallet
    Phone optional


    My kit is build out of a MEST. I can split it up and carry the pieces in cargo pockets of my hiking shorts. The MEST is bulky but it works.

    SOL double blanket
    MEST
    Knife with cordage
    Ditty bag

    Survival - Kit.jpg

    The ditty bag has
    Stakes (micro groundhogs)
    Cordage
    water purification tablets
    Match save with storm matches (Exotac MatchCAP)
    Ferro Rod (nanoStriker)
    Signal mirror
    Beeswax micro candle
    Water bag

    Survival - Ditty Bag.jpg

    Since taking the photos I have added a regular breakaway bead to the knife lanyard and I think there's some tinder in the kit as well.

    I made up two of these MEST kits. I don't have pictures of the other one. It has a Spark-lite kit, which I really recommend. I can't remember the second fire method in that kit. It has a BCUSA line kit with Ti stakes and a 5Col knife with 750 cord handle wrap. Which I also recommend. The biggest problem with the 5col knife is me not wanting to leave it in a kit.

    I'm in the Pacific Northwest. There's this thing here called "rain", and it leads to this other thing called "hypothermia". So my priorities are getting dry and warm, staying dry and warm, staying hydrated and getting found before I need worry about anything else from Maslow's hierarchy. So my kits feature a durable tarp and a secondary barrier material in the form of a SOL HeatSheet, along with cordage and a knife. Premade stakes mean I can set up a dry shelter in no time. The Heatsheet can be a ground barrier and blanket, or as a reflector lean-to with a fire (for the record I've never done the second method; probably ought to set one up one o these days). For fire I would try to find some downed cedar. When a cedar breaks, sometimes you can collect broken wood splits from the break point. Usually some of it will be dry. Also there are lots of conifers that shed rain well enough to get dry twigs and stuff from underneath them. In most cases the small knife (Scrapyard Scrapivore, about the size of an Izula) will suffice... but if I had a Dermasafe saw I would add it to this kit. If all else fails or if for whatever reason I cannot collect firewood, the survival candle should be good for four hours as a Palmer furnace with the HeatSheet.

    In my experience if you keep the Whirl-pak bags rolled up like how they arrived, they hold up well. I have some that are pretty old. I have four or six Micropur tablets in each kit and after that I'll take my chances with stream water. I'd like a way to heat water with this setup, as that works far better for rehydration than cold water. But the kit wouldn't be portable with a metal cup, and aluminum foil never seems to hold up in a flexible kit.

    For signaling there's the signal mirror but also the HeatSheet. Assuming one needs it for shelter, it's possible to get some signal streamers from the edges, that may help you get found. If you don't need it for warmth or shelter, maybe put it out in the clear, held down by rocks somewhere close to your shelter. A signal fire is an other possible option.

    Lastly the MEST bag and ditty bag can hold berries, tinder or whatever. Or maybe a survival kit.

    I've carried these kits all over but rarely use them. They're only for emergencies. If I take both kits, I will use one of them but the other will be in my pack or cargo pockets. That way I can practice and still have a full kit.

    I have an Altoids tin kit as well, and it has a tiny knife. Mine came from Badgerclaw and has a JB knife and tool blade. Sometimes I have that kit in my pocket and a MEST kit in a pack. If I had to use that "3C's" kit (cut, combustion, cordage) I would need to find or make natural shelter, like a hollowed out cedar stump. Been there, done that. Not the best sleep I've ever had. Gimme my MEST shelter any day.
     
  25. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    "Part of any trip is understanding not only of locations (trail head and destination at a minimum), but also the "best chance to get found" direction if, for some reason, staying put is not the best option and I've lost track of where I am in relation to trip locations. And I always have a compass on me."
    :57:

    To that end, have a base line identified for each area you trek into - a linear feature that you could not miss - road, river, power line, naked ridge - that you can move towards if all else fails. So, "If I go generally ____, I will hit the road that goes downhill to civilization."
     
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  26. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    one thought on redundancy

    while it does seem redundant to carry a small psk when you have a fully stocked daypack or maybe even more so if you're backpacking, but there have been enough examples in the last couple of years of folks getting separated from their packs (fording streams, falls, losing rafts/kayaks, etc) that it just might be worth thinking about what items you have on your person if you inadvertently found yourself in that position ie without your pack

    I know from my own experience doing the Bob Marshall Open in May when there is still feet of snow up high, creeks and rivers are raging and other potential dangers- that I have given it considerable thought :)
     
  27. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    • Gallon Capacity 95-96
    • Dimensions 61"W x 68"H
    • Color - bright blue
    • Thickness - 1.5 mil
    • Standard, Twist Tie (upon request)[​IMG]
    • Weight - 20.74 lbs for 50 count case
    • Bag Load Capacity 65 lbs
     
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  28. rmorgan736

    rmorgan736 Scout

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    well that seems to be an easy one i like pockets lots and lots of pockets so at any given time i have all i need to last a few days i have a fire steel on my key ring.2 or 3 knives at all times water bottle flask of peach brandy.....for snake bite dont ya know....pipe....tobacco.....meds......all packed in a big comfy vest with an over shelland lots more depending on what i am doing i have always carried a lot of stuff around dont know why just always have.
     
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  29. bumma

    bumma LEAP...the net will appear Supporter

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    Thanks to the OP for starting this thread and thanks to all who have participated. I've learned a lot here. I'm going back and start over. With hunting season just around the corner I need a PSK that will go into my vest pocket and stay there regardless of what else I carry.
     
  30. jswi2374

    jswi2374 Scout Bushclass I

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    I put my PSK in a 32oz. steel water bottle. It stays protected and together, dry, and easy to grab. Fits in a large coat pocket.
    0913171206.jpg 0913171208.jpg Pic 1: bottle, Mylar blanket, pack of facial tissue.
    Pic 2: Mylar blanket, bandanna, survival straw water filter, water bottle, button compass, signal mirror, whistle, Coughlan's crank generator flashlight, sinew cordage, Bic lighter, fatwood, fixed blade knife, tissue, beeswax candle, duct tape, tea (3), sugar (3).
    I EDC a Zippo, plastic bags and cell phone (pocket), Swiss Army knife, cinnamon stick, pencil, wood screw, and fire extender (belt pouch), ferro rod and compass (necklace)

    Container, combustion, cover, cordage, cutting tools. Compass, candlepower, calories, communication, and comfort.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  31. MJGEGB

    MJGEGB Guide

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    This touches on exactly why I never posted in this thread. And I don't think it's unusual for folks hiking to not want things in their pockets. It can interfere or be uncomfortable when hiking in more challenging terrain for longer distances. I personally keep just about everything in my pack on a hike. Perhaps not the best idea, though at least I keep the sternum strap in place. I might play with the idea of putting together a extremely simple PSK. Here's my thoughts.

    My personal main priorities would be Water, Shelter, Navigation.

    I always have a water bottle, a backup in my dirty bag for my filter, and of course my filter itself. I can go through A LOT of water so I tend to filter as I go and drink casually. I should, and have been meaning to add chemical water treatment as a backup. This would port over to a PSK well also. I think that a Vessel for water is often overlooked in these situations and a simple collapsible water bottle would be a great addition to a PSK along with the water treatment tabs or drops.

    I always keep my rain poncho in my pack since while I don't generally plan to hike in the rain storms can and have rolled into the areas I hike with little notice. It has the secondary use as a wind block if I get cold during a break. Of course it also acts as an emergency shelter so I always stash some dyneema line with it so that it can be set up quickly if need be. I also keep a sit pad which can be used with the pack itself as insulation from the ground. For a PSK version of this I like the idea of the SOL poncho, but you could go lighter and more compact with polypropylene polycryo and possibly include a ground sheet as a moisture barrier.

    Fire is the one thing I tend to keep on my person. I'm confident enough in my ability to produce a fire with any sharp knife and a ferro rod in my area. Generally that means a Farmer and random ferro rod on a hike. I've added a ferro rod loop to my belt sheath for the farmer so at least that will be covered on future hikes.

    Navigation for me is generally a map of the area and a compass. A button compass and back up map could be stuffed into a very compact PSK easily enough to cover this. But generally this is again something I keep in my pack.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  32. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    If that's an uninsulated bottle can you say where you got it? I'm sure I could find one but it might help anyway. :)
     
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  33. Big Furry Guy

    Big Furry Guy Scout Bushclass I

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    Doc, you carrying two chest darts?

    BFG
     
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  34. jswi2374

    jswi2374 Scout Bushclass I

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    Goodwill. $0.79 Painted black with high-temp grill paint. Put it on a fire dry once or twice just to make sure it doesn't have a coating on the inside.
     
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  35. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    No
    The Red Cap one is a decompression needle.
    The other is a needle/syringe combo for Epi and Benadryl.

    While not ideal, you can reuse the chest decompression needle if a subsequent decompression is needed.
     
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  36. Big Furry Guy

    Big Furry Guy Scout Bushclass I

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    I'm trying to visualize here. After sticking the needle in, you pull out the metal portion leaving the plastic tube inside. When you resuse it, are you saying the metal part has to remain in, because otherwise how do you maintain the space?

    BFG
     
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  37. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    @MJGEGB

    yup- I was one of those exactly (everything is on my back, want to travel as lightly and as unencumbered as possible- off trail, difficult terrain, etc). what really brought me around were several stories of folks getting separated from their packs- particularly with swift fords (but other plausible scenarios as well). I can tell you that the Bob Open I participate in each spring has numerous sketchy fords every year. If I were to lose pack in this remote area it would definitely be a do or die situation. Soooo... I thought long and hard about what items I could have on my person to give me at least a fighting chance. And while that chilling scenario is unlikely, I feel it's only prudent to be at least somewhat prepared for it.
     
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  38. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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  39. TexasPrimitive

    TexasPrimitive Supporter Supporter

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    For context I've never been "lost" for more than a few hours in the jungle. Well, never really lost, just not where I thought I was but definitely not where I was supposed to be either. ;) In hindsight I wish I would have had a psk with me then, but I was just going to go over to that island for a minute or follow that trail for a while and see where it went. At least in the island case I knew I would eventually hit water...but the jungle was so damn dense I had to wade through the surf back around the island and it was starting to get dark. Both were dumbass moves and I know better, but it happened. I was on a trip and didn't think I be getting woods time away from the group. Anyway, stories for another thread. Oh and that one time I fell asleep, and got separated, but I knew where we were going and had a map. A little scary for a few minutes. And without a compass could have been a real problem.

    Ran out of water in monsoon season for a while (different jungle, maybe a day and a half in 100% humidity and almost 100 in heat too).

    Been borderline hypothermic (starting to not shiver any more) and the same for heatstroke, lost 35 pounds from not having enough food in the woods for a few months. But that was all a long time ago.

    I share all that not because it means I have any idea what I'm doing but just that I have some context for no food/water/heat/etc and an inkling of what it is like.


    Some thoughts and questions:
    1) water is very very real, can't regulate your body temp very well if you are dehydrated

    2) I see a lot of baby fixed blades in the psk and I don't get it. SAK farmer, or about anything with a decent saw on it? What am I missing?

    3) for me, managing my headspace was way high on the list and that brings me to a) sugar free gum lasts a really long time in your mouth. Yes you don't need food for a really long time, but a ray of light is worth a lot if you are going to do anything but shelter in place b) I think I'm going to put some instant coffee in. With coffee and a dip I feel like superman. Like I think I'd drop other things to have a packet of coffee.

    4) I love the aloksak or other small bag idea. If the kit is awkward or banging in your leg or whatever it is more likely to get left behind. I'm thinking of something like the super light nylon bags that the little amk booboo kits come in.

    5) never thought about neon reflective paracord, great idea. Why am I carrying Camo or OD stuff.

    6) thoughts on ibuprofen for anti-inflammatory? Sure no help with a broken leg, but I'm thinking about jacked up ankle/knee, and would it make the difference in mobile or not mobile. Similar question on Imodium- I'm in a bad place if water is shooting right out the other end.

    7) Benadryl + Tagamet should cover H1 and H2 receptors? Seems like little space for the potential of big value. I'm not allergic to much but I also don't know how my body would respond to (as an example) a bunch of Africanized bee stings. Seems crazy but I did actually have to make a getaway this year. They only got me twice (eyelid, ear) but that's because they were chasing someone else.

    8) where can I buy a button-ish compass that isn't a POS but also isn't 50.00? I have been on a hunt for a while and the Chinese stuff is horrible. And the brunton and suunto stuff (little ones) have crappy reviews too.

    Eh, apologies for the ramble. This was a really helpful thread with a lot of good ideas, and helped me notice that when I most need the thing is when I'm not expecting it, or am likely to be in an unfamiliar place. And in re-reading the post I might put too much value on mobility.

    I'm headed to the high desert in South America this year and I realize I need to start from scratch on that kit, and also wondering if I need to think 96 hours there.
     
  40. bumma

    bumma LEAP...the net will appear Supporter

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  41. TexasPrimitive

    TexasPrimitive Supporter Supporter

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    Thanks I'll get one. The packaging had me worried, so it is good to know they are solid and point the right direction
     
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  42. Medic17

    Medic17 Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    @TexasPrimitive
    I have had really good luck with the Suunto Clipper. $20
    You can take it out of the housing if you do not need the clip portion and it will be a true button compass.
     
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  43. The Woodsrunner

    The Woodsrunner Bush Nerd Hobbyist

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    I am a TruNord guy, myself. But they are pricey. I used some rewards points on a site, to buy it, so it was free. Bombproof little compasses.
     
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  44. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

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    I've also had good luck w/ the Clipper as a backup/emergency compass- mine is in the 10-ish years old range and still going strong

    as far as first aid, my kits are usually on the tiny side (big emergencies in the backcountry are going to take knowledge and improvising)- but always have ibuprofen, immodium and benedryl
     
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  45. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    Might try Sun's website for other choices: https://suncompany.net/
     
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  46. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    I'll see what I can find out about these.
    https://www.bestglide.com/tracker_button_compass.html

    SUUNTO CLIPPER seems to no longer be made just as the capsule, but is avaialble in several small housings, as mtwarden pointed out. The Suunto has an excellent rep.

    REVIEW:
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  47. joedirt199

    joedirt199 Supporter Supporter

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    Have one of those clippon compass's but doesn't have suunto on it. Letters glow and is a fourth of the price.
     
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  48. CSM-101

    CSM-101 Scout

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    It's hard for me to keep kits to the bare minimum, I tell people that, gear wise, I suffer from KSS (Kitchen Sink Syndrome.) :D I'm always wanting to add a backup or two, or upgrade to something a little more capable.

    But if I had to limit myself to the absolute minimum, I think this is what I would want for a woods PSK:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ontario Rat 3
    Space blanket
    55 gallon drum liner
    15 feet of 275 paracord
    4 feet of duct tape
    Bic lighter
    4 hour mini candle
    Spark lighter and 4 tinder quicks
    Whirl pack water bag and 4 purification tablets
    Frontier filter straw
    Condom
    Streamlight Microstream

    I could get by without the candle, filter straw and condom, but I'd prefer to have them. The filter straw seems redundant, but I'd much prefer to be able to drink straight from the source instead of waiting for tablets to work. I've never understood why I don't see more people carrying these, unless it's purely from the size standpoint.

    A condom takes up less room than a second whirl pack, and gives me a back up to water storage.

    If conditions were too rough to try building a shelter, or if I was too tired or injured I could use the candle with the blanket and drum liner to do a Palmer furnace.
     
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  49. TexasPrimitive

    TexasPrimitive Supporter Supporter

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  50. Pinelogcreek

    Pinelogcreek Tracker

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    I carry a sak farmer with a Firesteel tied to the key ring, a 4sevens flashlight, a Gus made pill fob with Benadryl and aspirin, and a two person sol blanket. The Benadryl and aspirin can truly help with allergic reactions and heart attack victims. Lastly I carry a bandana because burnt bald head hurts! Everything but the blanket is always with me anyway. This might not be the sexiest kit but I’m confident it will allow me to make it a couple days. Finding clean water in my ao is very easy and unfortunately containers abound everywhere so I don’t currently carry water purification tablets in this setup. I’ve used everything here and I’m confident it works. Even tried the blanket for warmth while hiking in Glacier National Park and man did it help. PS don’t wear shorts in a place named Glacier even if it seems hot when you start out.

    My slightly larger setup is a modified pocket survival pack from SOL with a disposable poncho and emergency blanket all vacuum sealed together. Once vacuum sealed, with my regular kitchen vacuum machine, the whole thing is wallet sized. This setup does have water containers and tablets. I carry this for summer time kayaking because you can easily freeze to death in Florida as has unfortunately been seen in military exercises in my area.
     
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