Recommendation for securing gear inside a canoe???

Discussion in 'Paddling' started by La\\//inci, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    So I want a way to secure all my bushcraft gear inside my canoe. I’ve seen pics of guys who have drilled holes every 12” along the gunwale and run 3/8” rope thru the holes. Others bond D-rings to the canoe floor.

    I’d like to know if the canoe capsizes my gear stays with the canoe. Keep the gear low toward the center of gravity right. But How do you tie down your gear????

    Any pictures would be great????
    Thanks folks!
     
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  2. Robedsubset

    Robedsubset Scout

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    Dry bags lashed to the yoke or seats works for me. I guess it depends on how much gear you’re talking about
     
  3. Mikewood

    Mikewood Supporter Supporter

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    night ize makes some really cool gear ties. They are basically a rubber coated copper wire that you can use to securely lash stuff to stuff. You can also use solid copper wire like #12 (20A) building wire. No need for knots. Just twist it like a bread twisty and your good. I have a few in my truck on my Kayak and other places to keep things in place.
     
  4. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    Couple ways to view this...

    If you're in fast water, you are not advised to stay on/near said canoe (due to risk of getting crushed), but you want the gear to stay with it... this helps with buoyancy if your gear is packed in drybags and might prevent it getting pinned sideways underwater against a rock and bent.

    If you're on flat water, you have more than half a chance of getting back into the canoe and clearing it of water, so you want your gear to come out if you flip. Keeps it from blowing away too quickly, and makes it way easier to roll the water out if it's empty. So in this case, you can use 10'-12' dummy cords to keep the load around, but not "in".

    As far as my experience with tying gear in, I once had a canoe set up with a couple loops of 1/4" rope along the gunwales that I could run short bungies across the load to keep it in. It was a minor pita to do/undo. I spend most of my time on flat water, so my current canoes (both wood/canvas) don't have that, but if i had to rig it so, I'd do it the same way... they also make nets you can use.

    The d-rings are mounted with epoxy, i believe, to synthetic boats. No experience.
     
  5. KFF

    KFF Supporter Supporter

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    Bungee with carabiners has been my go to method in my yak.
    Bungee stays, stuff has carabiners added.
     
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  6. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    yes this is good insight regarding the fast water verse flat water. keeping it in verse keeping it attached...

    In my current thinking, ( could totally be wrong headed) I was considering running a ridgeline (of sorts) down the gunwales of the canoe.... one on each side. thinking, I could tie a prussic knot along the ridge lines (both sides) at specific intervals. use the loops on each side to attach to my gear... I'm also considering integrating a cargo net.... into this system,...
    so in fast water, just use both sides of the canoe to tie in gear
    in flat water, just use one side to tie in your gear ( this way it can flop out...)

    but how would you attach the rope (1/4" in your case) to the gunwales.... drill holes?? If I had small aluminum block to attach underneath... with a hole thru for the rope?

    just wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree... making more work for my self....
     
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  7. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    In my case, I have ribs between the inner and outer gunwales, which provide plenty of "hole" options. I can feed a loop of painter-line through any rib-hole, and then take up the slack at the next thwart.

    here's what the ribs/holes/thwarts look like. try to ignore the pleasant scenery.

    Low's-2013.JPG
     
  8. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    ok... here's my other canoe... the pic was to illustrate a canopy i'd put on (the sun is incredible in LA) when rigged for solo tripping. in that case, i leaned my butt against the lefthand thwart, facing to the right.

    In the background, you can see a bit of how I drilled a hole through the inner gunwale to run 1/4" line through, between the two left-hand thwarts. On the near side, all you can see it the knot on top. on the far side, you can see a white cord, and an overhand on a bight. there's another one a similar distance from the other end, just out of sight. these two bights were where i hooked in the bungie cords over the load in the middle, attached to the similar cord on the near-side gunwales.

    my daughter rode up front, i rode in back. the load was in the middle.

    IMAG1027.jpg
     
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  9. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    ok... this is a little better. you can see the bights on both sides. "in use', they would actually cross left to right. stored like this, they help take up the slack and keep the tiedowns out of my way.

    Toria and Pete-Bundick Lake 6 Jun 09 002.jpg
     
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  10. leghog

    leghog Scout

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    Put your gear in a garbage bag you tie off with a miller's knot.
    Put the bag in a lidded 5-gallon bucket.
    Tie the bucket's bail to a thwart.
    Don't over complicate it.
     
  11. M.Hatfield

    M.Hatfield Midnight Joker #42 Supporter

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    This is what I have been doing for years now. I have only ever tried this on day long trips though.

    How long are your excursions? @La\\//inci
     
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  12. Kurt992

    Kurt992 Guide Lifetime Supporter Bushclass II

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    For flat water, I just tie a line to one thwart, run it through the handles/straps of my packs/bags, and tie it to another thwart.
     
  13. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    Awesome canoe, many options
    Where is that???
    I have an old town Penobscot royalex
     
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  14. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    Very clever
    I see now
     
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  15. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    Multi day
    Mostly 2-3
    But a few 4-5
     
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  16. Doomsword

    Doomsword Tracker

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    In my mind, Cliff Jacobsen has a couple of neat ideas on this. I currently have a 16’ Mohawk Nova (R85) that I rigged using the pvc, holes, and line for towlines in the bow and stern and then several holes drilled below the gunwales thru which I can loop some line to lash bungees or rope to. Also, when I let the little grandkids use it (on flat water) I will use those gunwale holes to lash the bigger, long pool noodles to add floatation plus some stability in the event they begin trying to dunk each other. Additionally, if I am going to run any kind of heavier water, I take empty dry bags and use the holes to lash them in, thereby adding both flotation and lessening the area that water can fill. I should add that I no longer do much long stuff in very heay water.

    Was always an interesting question and one on which my floating pards and I sometimes differed. One school of thought was to lash everything in. The other was to lash anything that might sink to something that would float but not lash them into the canoe. Most of our floating was on the area Missouri and Arkansas Ozark’s rivers so minor upsets were fairly normal. We always figured if you did not capsize you were floating water that was way too easy or else not taking enough risks.

    Oh, how I long for those days when I was full of p*$$ and vinegar and had no fear.

    John

    “The United States has become a place where entertainers and professional athletes are mistaken for people of importance.” R.Heinlein
     
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  17. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    Thanks John... I'll have to dig into Cliff Jacobsen and see what he had in mind. I like the two schools of thought, which you call out...
    How did you use the PVC, having a hard time visualizing this?
     
  18. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    Yes indeed...
     
  19. Doomsword

    Doomsword Tracker

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    Drilled two holes slightly above waterline on both sides of the canoe. Then glued a short piece of tubing between the two holes. I used a two part epoxy from 3M but I cannot recall the specific type. The tubing was just slightly longer than the distance from outside to outside at the holes. I ran some silicone around the drilled holes. Then I took some line and looped it thru and pulled the knot into the tubing. I have never had a leak although I have replaced the line a couple of times. I filed the tubing to match the curve of the canoe. The canoe is in a storage unit at my in-law’s or I would take a photograph. Jacobsen’s book has a much better explanation and illustration. Also, it is just a really good source of ideas about extended wilderness paddling. Heck, he even talks about the old model Marlin 444 as being his bear gun whilst in polar bear country. Gotta love it. The closest I need to worry about polar bears during my floating excursions is if someone has one lashed to the bow of their canoe..... And while I have seen a T-rex or two, several stuffed bears, and even a toy alligator, I have yet to see a polar bear.

    John
     
  20. Doomsword

    Doomsword Tracker

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    The good old “pickle buckets”. One year, I believe it was around the 34th annual River Rats float trip, we were sipping on some adult beverages, noodling around on a guitar by the campfire and the Charter Member Rats wrote a song about our first few trips. Talked about stolen Jon Boats and pickle buckets loaded with sleeping bags and clothes and a Colt New Frontier in a .30 caliber ammo can. This June will be our 48th annual trip. I have made it to 37 so far. Made it to the first but we are now in our third generation of tradition so I am pretty sure that I will not make it to the last. Which is a very good thing.

    I still use the five gallon buckets but now they are blue and say Lowe’s on them. Still have not decided whether it is best to tie them to a thwart or just let them float free though.

    John
     
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  21. OutnBacker

    OutnBacker Guide

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    My old Tripper had D rings on the bottom. I never capsized it, but they were stuck down pretty good. The rings were run thru reinforced vinyl tape and secured to the same material in discs - like that stuff they make inflatables with. As said above, flat water? let 'em float free. fast water, tie 'em down. Anyway you can. Most ideas work well enough.

    IMG_2082.JPG
     
  22. Portage_Monster

    Portage_Monster Experiencing Wanderlust Supporter

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    I've only felt like I needed to tie my gear down once, but I'm not into white water. What I've done in the past for people however is take a short length of rope and tie a loop in both ends. Slide a pack strap through one loop and then use a carabiner to attach the line to the nearest thwart. In the event of a canoe flipping that pack is on a short leash.
     
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  23. Scotchmon

    Scotchmon Supporter Supporter

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    On a WW Canoe I had holes drilled under the gunwhales and passed paracord through the holes. The crisscrossed cordage held in the flotation bags.
    I used pad eyes screwed to the inside surface of the gunwhales of my Mohawk Solo 14, and place packs under the same type of lashing. packs are tied to either one of the pad eyes or to a thwart.
    Vinybond adhesive works well for securing commercially made D ring pads, foam saddles, knee pads, etc. in royalex hulls.
     
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  24. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    First, let me start by saying I d not like carabiners for securing gear in a canoe, unless they are the locking kind. Otherwise, they tend to grab thing they shouldn't.

    I have two rules of thumb for moving rivers. If it will help to keep the boat floating high on the water - secure it. If not either let it fall out, or preferably, leave it behind. Gear that won't float on its own can often be stored in a drybag that will hold enough air to make it a floating object.

    I have a few canoes that have been drilled below the gun'l' as described above - but that is for a bag cage to hold in float bags for whitewater use. There is indeed some controversy among paddlers on whether gear should be secured in whitewater. One camp says that spilled gear in drybags will be easily collected in the next eddy. The other says that critical gear may be lost if separated from the boat. I think it probably depends on the character of your given river, but I generally fall into the second camp. Other than paddles, most of my gear on river trips will usually be in drybags, pickle barrels, or buckets with screw-on lids. Those containers will be secured to the floor and/or a thwart. I have d-ring patches fastened to the floor with G-flex epoxy for anchor points in my royalex canoes. All of those containers will provide positive flotation with the gear I have in them. I do not bring the Dutch oven or other such anvils on rough rivers. ;)

    I haven't done any long trips on lakes, but many of those who do have advised to have gear tethered together on one line, but not anchored in the boat. The idea is to allow the gear to float out of the swamped canoe, so that the boat can be quickly emptied by flipping. Gear can then be gathered by the tether. This seems to me a very good plan - but would never be a good idea on a river, due to entanglement danger.
     
  25. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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  26. gila_dog

    gila_dog Supporter Supporter

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    I keep seeing people recommend bungies. I love them, they are so useful. But they can really be dangerous! I knew a guy who was tying something onto the roof rack of his vehicle using bungies. He had one stretched tight, getting ready to hook the end onto something, and the other end came loose. WHACKO! The hook on the bungie flew around and hit him in the face and destroyed one of his eyes. Now I rarely use them for tying things onto my truck. I prefer rope with a trucker's hitch. Any time I use a bungie my butt puckers up, like when handling a loaded pistol.
     
  27. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    That canoe is a 16' Old Town Yankee on Low's Lake in the Adirondacks of NY. Tomar Mtn off in the distance. My other wood/canvas one is a Chestnut Chum (green).

    The other one in the pictures is a Eureka 155 stitch and glue. I cut 6" off each piece from the center and made it 14'-6" instead of 15.5', but it worked well for years. @OMRebel owns it now.
     
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  28. TheWhiteWoodsman

    TheWhiteWoodsman Scout

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    What an awesome thread!

    What are your thoughts on the in between slow rivers? especially when there are not, as @FreeMe described, eddys in abundance to catch floating gear.
     
  29. La\\//inci

    La\\//inci Tracker

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    I like the idea of a gear tether for flat water. It is the first time hearing about it...
     
  30. Bad Little Falls

    Bad Little Falls Guide

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    I have never dumped my canoe loaded or empty on flat water. That doesn't mean it can't or won't, and I do take some risks from time to time such as standing or cutting across a wind driven section of water. This conversation has me wanting to load my boat and dump it to see what it like to have gear all tied in and still right the boat and make it to sure or have to sit in and bail enough to float again. I typically tie stuff in but and almost well enough for it to stay in. But just as often it on a tether of sorts and would not stay in the boat. Some testing is needed as soon as the water in decent enough for such test, its still a little hard right now.
     
  31. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

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    For me, the more lake-like the river is, the less likely gear will be secured. There are some small items that are always secured, just because it's convenient.
    Last Sunday, I did a day trip on a class 1 stretch in my solo canoe. The chance of my boat tipping over or swamping was really low. Important gear was in two drybags - the smaller of which was clipped to a thwart - and in the pockets of my strapped-on seat cushion. My drybox/cooler was not fastened. My cheap folding table and chair were not fastened. If I had managed to flip the canoe, the table and chair would have gone to the bottom, and I probably would have had to chase a couple things down in the slow current. But the given trip didn't seem to justify taking the time to tie everything in that I might have. Granted - there were other boaters present who would have helped to gather a yard sale, but I wouldn't have done it any different if I was alone. How comfortable one is in taking such chances depends on the paddler, the river, and the stability of the boat.
     
  32. Doomsword

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    I buy pickle buckets sometimes at Firehouse Subs. They sell them for a few bucks, with the lids and then around here anyway, the money goes to firefighter oriented charities. Not sure if that is nation wide.

    Generally, on the rivers around here we tried to pack everything into dry bags and pickle buckets. These were then lashed together but generally not lashed to the canoe. I drilled those holes along the gunwales and I have used them at times to secure gear but honestly that is not all that often. My wife’s employer uses these honkin, ginormous tyvek bags when packing some items. Kind of like those small air cushion pillows you find when you buy a package of fragile items except on a huge scale. They have a valve system much like those space saver bags so you can hook up a vaccum and inflate or deflate them. Normally, the employees just slice them with a box cutter to release the air although I have convinced my Bride to open the valves to empty the air. Regardless, a clean slice can be repaired. I then can inflate the bags and use the lashing system to fill the canoe with big air bladders. In the event of a capsize, the water has less room and it adds to the flotation. The bags are about 24” x 36” so rather sizeable and they do a good job and they are tough. I believe ou can buy purpose built bags but these work pretty well and for the limited times I need them, they do fine.

    Full disclosure, I still float but almost everything now is geared toward the fishing and not running heavy water. When the River Rats first started in 19771 we would carry all our gear, camp on the river several nights, putting in one place and taking out miles downriver. Nowadays, we camp in one beautiful spot for a week and every day we shuttle canoes upstream about eight miles and float down to camp. If we capsize, we simply get wet and dry out the remainder of the float. A cooler, a couple of rods and a little tackle is about all that is at risk. Not nearly as adventurous but still a helluva lot of fun. Course, we use propane stoves, a variety of shelters including campers, and four-wheelers and chain saws to harvest firewood...... It ain’t exacty bushcraft but it is most definitely out-of-doors.

    Lots of good ideas out there.

    John
     
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  33. hillst1

    hillst1 Supporter Supporter

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    I use dry bags and buckle them to the thwart. For items that I want quick access to, I use a thwart pack similar to the one in the photo that converts to a fanny pack.

    [​IMG]
     
  34. Seeker

    Seeker Woods Bum Supporter Bushclass I

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    no eddys? you mean like miles of really rough whitewater? float bags under netting, bow and stern, and tie your stuff in tight. better yet, portage. "A portage means better men than you have decided to walk around those rapids."

    no eddys, like slow streams connecting lakes (adirondack/canadian shield) with the occasional riffle? tie lines. chances are you'd only capsize because of inattention (not 'over-estimating your capability' in rapids), wouldn't get pinned to your canoe/crushed on a rock, and would be able to swim it to shore. tie lines would make that whole thing easier.
     
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