Retired police cary laws

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by roadwarrior, Mar 15, 2019 at 8:51 PM.

  1. roadwarrior

    roadwarrior Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    5,963
    Location:
    CT
    My brother in law was a police man, he says his badge lets him cary anywhere in the USA. Does this include Ney York city, Washington DC, Chicago and the peoples republic of California? I thought all guns were banned in these places.
     
  2. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    22,602
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    I'd sure not like to discover that was actually a fact...
     
    central joe likes this.
  3. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Depends. Certain states, cities require off duty police to have similar restrictions as civilians. Carry capacity for instance.

    Now if pulled over whether his badge would allow him more leeway is another topic entirely.
     
  4. alukban

    alukban Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,339
    Likes Received:
    8,114
    Location:
    NYC <--> NW CT
    Nope.

    Need to be HR 218 (LEOSA) certified.
     
  5. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    Location:
    Idaho
  6. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    22,602
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Cities controlling who carries guns is up to the citizens of that city.

    Someone getting a badge in little burg someplace, and then being allowed to use that badge to carry a firearm wherever they please is an unsettling thought...
     
  7. chndlr04

    chndlr04 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Location:
    Ruther glen, VA
    No. The badge applies to on duty only.
    Still need to get a license to carry off duty in VA.
     
  8. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    Location:
    CALIF
    And, they must be able to " Qualify ", using his/her Specific ( Make,Model,Serial,& Caliber ) " CCW Handgun(s) " .

    There are some limitations, as to where they are able to " CCW " .. for all / any " Off Duty LEO's or HONORABLY - Retired Personnel ", within every individual States.


    I.E:

    LEOSA - Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act (H.R. 218, 2004)

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=695756

    https://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/question-for-the-leos-first-responders.235833/#post-4099086

    P.S.:
    Retirement does not guarantee anyone, a " CCW " issued permit. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 10:01 PM
  9. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Ive never heard of citizens having a say.
     
  10. Monkeynono

    Monkeynono Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,085
    Likes Received:
    2,683
    Location:
    Southern Nj
    Not here, there has been several reports of out of state police officers being stopped and getting in trouble.
     
    Birdman and JeffG like this.
  11. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    Location:
    Idaho
    "Wherever they please" is not quite what it amounts to. But I guess it's up to those little burgs to keep Barney off the force. If they don't, I guess my take is that the citizens of that little burg deserve to be just as safe as anywhere else, so why should any other place object? I'd turn the argument around and ask why any big city cop should be trusted in my little burg - except I believe in constitutional carry.
     
  12. Unistat76

    Unistat76 Nerd Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,622
    Likes Received:
    8,222
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    LEOSA amounts to a nationwide carry permit, but subject to the carry laws of the state. If, for example, I am a retired sheriff's dep from a tiny county in Michigan and I went ahead and qulified under LEOSA, I could carry in NYC, but not in their pistol free zones or with a standard capacity magazine and I couldn't carry hollow points in Jersey.
     
  13. hlydon

    hlydon Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    3,836
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    LEOSA is interesting to me from an academic perspective and from a concerned citizen perspective. If people do not have a constitutional right to carry or carry concealed, then how can the federal government give that non existing right to entities of one state in another state? I doubt we will see any challenge to the law until a police officer of one state uses a gun to kill someone in another state. Let me know if anyone is familiar with actual court cases challenging the law.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 10:42 PM
    Park Swan, jstert, Lee C. and 3 others like this.
  14. Unistat76

    Unistat76 Nerd Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,622
    Likes Received:
    8,222
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    On the other hand, I have a buddy who is a Fed LEO and he can go where ever he pleases, off duty or on, with whatever capacity or ammo he wants legally (although angency policy states he should only carry his issued sidearm.)

    FWIW, due to my job, can carry in PFZs in Michigan (off duty) but I do not qualify federally for LEOSA.
     
  15. GoodPhotos

    GoodPhotos Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    Location:
    Deep in wild wooded Western foothills of Maine
    The citizens of Maine say that any adult who is legally allowed to OWN a firearm, may legally carry it (concealed or openly) in almost all public spaces. Not in schools, on Federal Property, most State Government property nor in establishments which serve alcohol if the establishment posts a sign stating that firearms are restricted.

    You're good up here in the 199 year old (today!) Pine Tree State.
     
    Park Swan, Seacapt., jstert and 7 others like this.
  16. Zaveral

    Zaveral Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    824
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Location:
    NE Arkansas
    Every US citizen who isn't in prison should be "allowed" to carry anywhere in the US and it's territories or military bases.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 11:50 PM
  17. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,505
    Likes Received:
    10,420
    Location:
    Ohio
    Not in Ohio and other states where state law is supreme and local government barred from enacting gun-control law.

    Some folks are not happy with a big city deciding that a given person is qualified to carry. I think it depends on the city, not that I have any say in it. I'm in Ohio - with "shall issue" state law.
     
  18. JeffG

    JeffG Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    665
    Likes Received:
    3,329
    Location:
    NE Wisconsin
    It would behoove any retiring officer to research HR 218. Assuming something or being unaware of something could land you in a trick bag rather quickly. As a retiree, I don't rate carrying the badge any longer, so there is that.
     
    TrespassersWilliam likes this.
  19. PERRO

    PERRO Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    4,305
    Location:
    CALIF
    Just an additional " FYI ":

    U.S. Congressman Pushing Change To Block States From Banning Cops Carrying Guns


    " On June 14, 2018, I introduced H.R. 6105, the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) Reform Act with Representatives Scott Perry (PA-04) and John Rutherford (FL-04) as original cosponsors. Current and retired law enforcement officers go through in-depth training that prepares them to safely handle a firearm, and the LEOSA Reform Act would improve concealed carry laws for our current or retired law enforcement officers by easing training burdens and restrictions on carrying.........."

    Bacon and his coalition seek to make the following changes:


    1. Federal Gun Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) - The GFSZA currently does not permit carry for those pursuant to LEOSA even though possessing a state CCW permit does. Thus, having a state CCW means you can carry in school zones but carrying under LEOSA does not. We wish to revise the GFSZA to include an exemption for LEOSA.
    2. State, Local, and Property Open to the Public, including Common Carriers - LEOSA currently does not override the prohibition of CCW carry on common carriers (e.g. city buses, subways, AMTRAK, etc.), nor does it override the ability of private property owners of otherwise publicly accessible property (e.g. shopping malls, stores, movie theaters, etc.) from prohibiting carry. We wish to revise LEOSA to allow qualified law enforcement officers (QLEOs) and qualified retired law enforcement officers (QRLEOs) to carry on common carriers and on state, local, and privately-owned property that is otherwise open to the public. (Courthouses and Law Enforcement facilities would continue to be restricted, as would carry for commercial airlines.)
    3. National Parks - LEOSA currently does not permit carry in National Parks but having a state CCW permit does. We wish to revise LEOSA to specifically allow carry on all federally owned lands/properties that are otherwise open to the public.
    4. Magazine size limitation - LEOSA currently provides an exemption from state/local restrictions on ammunition, but it does not provide an exemption from such restrictions on magazine size. Thus, one can carry hollow-point ammo under LEOSA even if it is prohibited by state/local laws, but LEOSA does not allow an exemption on magazine size limitations. We wish to revise LEOSA to also provide the magazine size exemption.
    5. Qualification Issue - LEOSA certification currently requires annual qualification to the state standard for law enforcement or on the qualification standard of their former employing agency. This is a problem for those who reside in states for which there is no state standard for law enforcement, those states that have different standards for active versus retired law enforcement, and those states that prohibit their certified firearms instructors from qualifying retired officers. We seek to revise LEOSA to provide multiple options for meeting the annual qualification requirement and at the option of the state, extend the training requirement from every 12 months—to up to every 36 months.
    6. Certain Federal Facilities – LEOSA currently does not allow carry in Federal civilian public access facilities. We wish to revise LEOSA to allow carry in a Facility Security Level I or II civilian public access facility (e.g. US Post Offices and Social Security offices, etc.) (Federal Courthouses would continue to be restricted).”
    Bacon’s proposed amendments are broader than those that died with his last bill.

    The new amendments address some specific issues that have come up in states that have sought to violate the spirit of LEOSA by restricting retired and active-duty officers carrying at will.


    https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesma...4t4LzWsPE55xek8f4qu1otna4tf7GNkE9H76j_m23XMtY
     
    Redwalker, Zaveral, Huey and 2 others like this.
  20. haunted

    haunted Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    Likes Received:
    2,464
    not legally it doesnt but by the blue maybe...................
     
  21. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Location:
    Rochester, NH
    I have qualified under the LEOSA provisions since retiring. I also keep it very low key when out of state and have kept several in state and out of state CC licenses current.

    I know of at least two arrests of qualified LEOSA officers who were arrested by locals for what carrying "illegally" as they chose to ignore Federal Law.... One officer sued for unlawful arrest and collected $250K...not sure about the other....

    Two California Officers were in Sturgis, SD and ended up shooting a couple of Hell's Angels. The shootings were ruled justified.. From what I read the judge did also rule that they were carrying the firearms illegally until such time they could prove their LE status. I believe all those charges were dropped also.

    Retired officers who think that they can just show a retirement ID or badge when out of state while carrying are taking their financial future in their hands. Just about every state now has LEOSA Retired Officers guidelines, use of deadly force course and firearms qualification...not doing the course yearly is foolish...

    However, Constitution Carry should be the Law of the Land, not just in a few states.....

    Bob
     
  22. Blackhillz

    Blackhillz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    4,259
    Location:
    Rapid City, SD
    Came here to post this, hopefully the revisions get passed.
     
    JeffG and TrespassersWilliam like this.
  23. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    7,061
    Likes Received:
    14,588
    Location:
    Gouldsboro, PA
    More importantly, why do some folks have the inclination to create a separate social caste, which has freedoms not permitted to others?

    LEOs are civilians. They are just granted certain police powers, by the communities they serve, as a requirement of their employment. Their job necessitates that they have these powers and I'm thankful that they do. They have a very difficult job. Due to the nature of their job, I have no objection to those requirements extending to the LEOs even during their off hours, as some LEOs are never really off duty, based on their job requirements.

    But there is no need for these designated police powers to extend into retirement, especially when the powers that are granted extend into states beyond the reach of their original jurisdiction. Granting powers such as this creates a caste of civilians that have powers beyond those of all other civilians and there is no legitimate legal justification for this. We are all bound by the same laws.
     
  24. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    Location:
    Idaho
    IIRC, there was a logical reason offered, although arguably disputable, involving the possibility that someone might wish to carry out a grudge against a retired officer, related to a past arrest. But I agree with you. However, I view this as a possible step in the right direction.

    Used to be, until very recently, that legislators in Idaho could carry concealed without a permit - while everyone else had to have the permit. It was a holdover from the old days before "shall issue", dating back to the wild days that saw at least one political assassination here. When they passed "shall issue", the special provision remained and was kind of overlooked for several years. Then a controversy arose, when it became known that a legislator who had some kind of criminal record (IIRC, it was a domestic violence thing - but not sure) was allowed to carry concealed only because of that part of the law. A campaign arose to repeal that part of the statute.

    One of the other legislators was reported to have said publicly that he didn't believe he should have to "give up that privilege". Come to think of it - I seem to recall seeing and hearing it on video. That raised a firestorm of criticism (from me and others) after an attempt to pass the repeal of that provision failed. I still think it cost that politicritter his bid to be nominated for governor (although things worked out for him later). The following year, IIRC, constitutional carry was passed, and I believe it was due in part to the arguments that arose over the issue with the legislators' privilege.

    I think these controversies can be used to shed light on the fallacies of unconstitutional gun control and possibly the the catalyst of change. But there has to be time allowed, IMO, to demonstrate the lie of the anti-gun crowd, before making the next move. Just not the 100 years or so as in the above case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 10:49 AM
    Sandcut and TrespassersWilliam like this.
  25. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Location:
    Rochester, NH
    Mr. Sandcut...you appear to be under the impression that LEOSA confers some "police powers" to retired officers...it does not. It only allows those retired officers who are willing to continue to qualify with their firearms every year, and in some states twice a year, to continue to carry firearms in any state to be able to protect themselves and their family from persons who may want to harm them due to their prior profession.

    Even if a LEOSA qualified, a retired officer has NO power of arrest other that which is conferred to a civilian of the same state. And either does a current officer if he is out of his jurisdiction.
     
  26. GoodPhotos

    GoodPhotos Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    Location:
    Deep in wild wooded Western foothills of Maine
    Indeed.

    LEOs are no more and no less apt to be law abiding and no more necessarily skilled at arms than any other citizen. The LEOs (and Military Veterans for that matter) who are firearms enthusiasts are AS likely to put in regular practice with a handgun as any other firearm enthusiast, but simply having to qualify with your weapon once or twice a year doesn't make LEOs or Veterans as 'highly trained' as most of America seems to believe them to be. Once retired, no such requirement exists even for the qualification any more than any other citizen. I'm amused by the number of people who assume that because I'm an Army Veteran that I'm automatically an expert with a handgun. While I was supposed to be issued a pistol due to my MOS while enlisted in the (peace time) Army, I never saw range time with a handgun and always seemed to be issued an M16A1 with an M203 grenade launcher attached! I qualified Expert with a rifle, (30+ YEARS ago!) but an M16 is quite a different beast than a daily carry micro-9mm/.380cal. If I owned firearms today and carried a handgun daily, it would entail fairly regular range time. Unfortunately, all of the firearms I owned were lost in a tragic boating accident several years ago and I haven't got around to replacing any of them. :(

    The Just Solution(tm) ...as several folk here have suggested already... is Nationwide Constitutional Carry and Nationwide Reciprocity* until we can force that Right to be recognised by Law.

    *If you have a Concealed Carry Permit in any State, it should be recognised in every State, just as we recognise Driver's and Marriage Licenses Nationwide.
     
  27. FreeMe

    FreeMe Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    3,952
    Likes Received:
    3,535
    Location:
    Idaho
    I completely missed that, RJM. I was reading "powers" as "freedoms" - maybe a bad assumption.
     
  28. RJM52

    RJM52 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    981
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Location:
    Rochester, NH
    "*If you have a Concealed Carry Permit in any State, it should be recognised in every State, just as we recognise Driver's and Marriage Licenses Nationwide."

    I believe that if after Trump was elected there had not been the Las Vegas and Florida school shooting National Reciprocity would have been passed...
     
  29. ameriloc

    ameriloc Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    77
    Location:
    The World
    The blue line mafia will allow what they choose not what is right.
     
    JC1 likes this.
  30. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Location:
    Lost in the woods
    That is incorrect. LEOSA applies to current and retired law enforcement. Yes, he can carry in any city or state under his credentials. However, laws for things like magazine capacity still apply. I can also carry in Washington D.C. under LEOSA but I would still have to lock my pistol up in the car if I wanted to go to the Capitol building because government buildings are generally prohibited for everyone to carry, including LEOSA.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 11:29 AM
    chndlr04 likes this.
  31. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Location:
    Lost in the woods
    That's uncalled for. LEOSA is federal law. It's fine to disagree but there is no need to disparage an entire profession.
     
  32. chndlr04

    chndlr04 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Location:
    Ruther glen, VA
    Thanks for that info, LEOSA is a new one for me.
     
  33. hlydon

    hlydon Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    3,836
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    I’ve met many current and ex-military/law enforcement who aren’t skilled with handguns. There was a 7-year veteran of the Air Force in my concealed carry class. She couldn’t pass the shooting part. She couldn’t even hit a silhouette from 20 feet. Under Ohio law, she still could apply for a concealed carry license without taking/passing the class simply because of her military experience. She didn’t know that when she signed up. On an unrelated note, she ended being convicted of putting a hit out on her ex husband. True story.
     
  34. Sandcut

    Sandcut Sed ego sum homo indomitus Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    7,061
    Likes Received:
    14,588
    Location:
    Gouldsboro, PA

    Nope. Not under that impression at all. I know that retired officers have no police powers. Those powers are granted only as a condition of their employment. As such, any authority to be granted the ability to carry firearms, separate from that of any other civilian, becomes void upon retirement. Why? Because in this country where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, we do not confer special status to anyone because of their former occupation. That only occurs in feudal societies.

    As far as people being able to defend themselves and their families because of grudges that developed from their former professions, police aren't the only profession out there where grudges with past clients is a possibility. I can show you township supervisors, school board members, psychologists and attorneys who all fall into that same category. So why is the ability of interstate carry not conferred equally to retired township supervisors? We had an attempted murder on one of my township supervisors and a successful murder of a supervisor in the next county over all in the last four years.
     
    Birdman, GoodPhotos, jstert and 4 others like this.
  35. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    22,602
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    ^^^ This^^^
     
  36. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Still, they shouldn't have ANY firearm (or arms) allowances above any other citizen as allowed by the Constitution. That goes for firearm types and capacities and methods and places of carrying as any retired or even on duty officer as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 4:28 PM
    Birdman, GoodPhotos, hlydon and 2 others like this.
  37. JC1

    JC1 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    Location:
    Alaska
    Its much more unsettling to know that the govt has infringed on the RIGHTS of all law abiding citizens with every gun related law
     
    Zaveral, GoodPhotos, hlydon and 3 others like this.
  38. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 15, 2013
    Messages:
    3,209
    Likes Received:
    3,483
    Location:
    Lost in the woods
    Yep, this shouldn't be a discussion at all. Everyone should be able to carry a firearm, regardless of profession, so long as they haven't lost that right through due process of the law.
     
  39. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    22,602
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Aren’t law abiding citizens the same people who elect and re-elect representatives who in turn pass gun related laws?
     
    bosque bob likes this.
  40. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    The ones that don't understand or respect the Constitution except when its convenient?
     
  41. Tye

    Tye Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 31, 2017
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    1,722
    Location:
    Virginia
    Don’t know where your getting your info unless you work for a Northern Va. department that doesn’t let you carry off duty but Va. code allows Va sworn officers to Cary off duty with the LE credentials. The badge is just a symbol the LE ID card signed by your Chief is your permit
     
  42. Haggis

    Haggis Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    22,602
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    I reckon even Founding Fathers, Jefferson and Adams, debated whether the Constitution should be liberally or conservatively interpreted,,, don’t expect that to change any time soon.
     
    bosque bob likes this.
  43. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    If they did they would have said so, everything is pretty spelled out... including "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed". And I don't expect that to change anytime soon.
     
    Zaveral, JC1 and TrespassersWilliam like this.
  44. mtwarden

    mtwarden roaming the Big Sky Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    6,411
    Likes Received:
    27,137
    Location:
    Montana
    care to elaborate there partner?
     
  45. chndlr04

    chndlr04 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,519
    Likes Received:
    4,806
    Location:
    Ruther glen, VA
    @GunGoBoom already informed me of my error. I was told by a retired officer( medically retired not that long ago) so its a interesting piece of info that makes me curious why he went that route
     
  46. JC1

    JC1 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    1,289
    Location:
    Alaska
    They tell lies to get elected and then do whatever they want after election. And they are establishment, only in it for their own benefit.

    The 2A is the ONLY Amendment that states "Shall Not Be Infringed" and yet it has been torn to pieces by the scum in the govt for countless years.
     
  47. TrespassersWilliam

    TrespassersWilliam Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,257
    Likes Received:
    4,236
    Location:
    NH

    Is there a fraternal order of township supervisors?

    (Do they actively lobby Congress like the FOP?)

    Do they have their own special flag?

    ...lot of cops end up in Masonic societies too for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019 at 6:45 PM
    bosque bob likes this.
  48. hlydon

    hlydon Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    3,836
    Location:
    SW Ohio
    With the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms was being memorialized in the Constitution, not being given by the Constitution. The right already existed. There should be no doubt, particularly given historical context, that the right to bear arms was being memorialized to ensure the people always had the right to fire power needed to keep government officials in check.
     
  49. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    11,477
    Likes Received:
    49,356
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Absolutely. If you look at 99.9% of my posts I say, "recognized and protected by the Second Amendment".

    The Declaration says-
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
     
    Traditionalist, GoodPhotos and JC1 like this.
  50. GoodPhotos

    GoodPhotos Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    2,395
    Location:
    Deep in wild wooded Western foothills of Maine
    THAT's proof of the conspiracy right there. Those Freemasons. I hear that they are trying to take over the world....one baked bean suppah at a time!
    (Can't trust that.)
    LOL
     
    Sandcut likes this.

Share This Page