SHTF and Precious Metals

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by Gary V, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    There is a similar thread on this topic already but I don't want to hijack it on my own tangent so excuse me for being a little redundant instead.

    In a long term SHTF world, what actual value would precious metals have? They may have some practical uses but I'm hard pressed to think of any that you need for survival. That leaves using them as a replacement for currency but I don't think many people would trade a can of beans for a silver dollar when what they need is medicine. You could be sitting on Fort Knox and starve to death in my opinion. Also depending on who rises to power, they may take your gold from you. In the USA during the great depression it was illegal to own gold. You could go to jail for up to 10 years if you didn't turn it in. The gov compensated you but then it wasn't a full blown SHTF situation and they were the good guys.

    Of course there could be a short term situation where you are certain the gov will restore order and not steal your gold but do you base your preparations on that scenario or do you stock on ammo, meds, vitamins, food etc.? One oz of gold will buy a lot of inventory.

    I feel that putting away precious metals it's a half step. You invest in it now knowing it will have value later if you need to sell it and it won't spoil like other goods. It's like you're invested in being prepared but can cash out at any time.

    What's your opinion?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  2. Bryan King

    Bryan King Hobbyist Hobbyist

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    I agree I would rather invest in supplies I could use or trade
     
  3. blind & lost

    blind & lost Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    Silver is <$16.00 an ounce right now. Couldn't hurt to have some junk silver dimes/quarters and a few silver eagles stashed away. There will always be some value. Who knows?
     
  4. oldpinecricker

    oldpinecricker Supporter Supporter

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    They will always be worth something whereas currency comes and goes. Been that way before ancient Sumeria or Egypt and hasn't changed.

    In our industrial manufacturing society no doubt hard goods like meds, ammo, food, water, footwear, fuel, steel stock and junkyards, may have high value in a tough strech. But keep metals also in mind as an hedge. They can act as currency and traditionally have done so, but don't put eggs all in one basket. In other words diversify. Keep a few thousand in silver, several thousand in gold, and put the rest in useful goods and consumables you use.

    I don't know about gold, but silver is perhaps the Best Buy one may make for long term wealth. Silver is widely used and there's less and less physical production and fewer mines as demand remains strong. Same for zinc at the moment.

    $16 silver is incredibly cheap. I'm not certain when, but there will come a time when paper silver will be "called" and it might cause a lot of problems. The problem is that much of silver is consumed in manufacturing and use while the majority of gold is held in reserve and that will be a huge issue at some point.
     
  5. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

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    I agree. I keep silver coins when I come across them and always check my change, but I don't buy silver. I'd rather trade for food or medical supplies. Ammo is a potentially risky trade, so it'd have to be someone that I know and trust.
     
  6. Mick Badgero

    Mick Badgero Scout

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    Silver can be used as an antibacterial. A silver spoon in the rain barrel was said to keep the water fresh. A bent silver coin would work as well.

    Gold is mostly used in jewelry and electronics. Don't really see a need to stockpile it. It doesn't taste good. It has value as a standard for trade, but how would you know if someone was trying to trade gold for supplies in SHTF, or if it was fake gold?
     
  7. RavenLoon

    RavenLoon axology student Supporter

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    In a worldwide shtf situation as you describe maybe PMs won't be desired but why assume all financial collapses will go all the way to the Mad Max scenario. Gold has been valued as money for over 5000 years, unlike any fiat currency which eventually gets debased. Many financial analysts recommend 10% of a financial portfolio be in PMs. When stocks tank or the currency inflates then gold or silver may cover the losses. It doesn't matter if you don't personally like precious metals. You should be looking at world wide desirability and the amount of people worldwide that value it. A financial collapse is not the same as a civilization collapse. Gold and silver are for a financial collapse. Storing guns, ammo, and food are for a civilization collapse.
     
  8. oldpinecricker

    oldpinecricker Supporter Supporter

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    Good point about looking worldwide at people who value gold. If you look at folks in SE Asia (especially Thailand), India, and to some degree China, those folks have traditionally valued gold and continue to do so. The Thais and Indians wear it and their jewelry is 24k, not the cheap stuff here domestically.

    Its said India's economy will eclipse our own somewhere around 2025-2030? Something like that I've heard. Anyway, that's a huge bunch of people and they love gold.

    Off the top of my head I cannot remember the company name. But there's a place that sells REAL 24k jewelry that you can wear and enjoy as an investment and they do buybacks on the jewelry.

    The thing is they sell pure gold and there's a little markup but when gold hits they buy back. It's a decent deal for folks who like jewelry and wearing gold. It's real and over time you don't lose your shorts on cheap less than pure highly marked up jewelry that's common.

    Just thought I'd mention this because it's an option for the true jewelry lovers. Personally, I'm not a jewelry type person so it aint for me.
     
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  9. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    Looks like people have different ideas as to what SHTF means to them. I take it more as a breakdown of society that could result in currency being worthless. Others appear to view it as a financial meltdown as well where the value of currency drops a lot. That's OK but based on history in the USA, the government could force you to turn in your gold to the feds at a price they determine (like during the depression of the 1930s). I'm not sure how that would work out today but back then they payed about $20/oz for gold.
     
  10. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    silver can be used to purify water ! so in a SHTF situation .... if you got silver and i want it... I'm gonna get it , and eat my beans to ! LMAO



    Its like one dude finds a can of beans the other has a silver coin....none of them has eaten in the last 2-3 days or so...so they meet and decide to politely trade...they sit down ,open the can of beans....with the can opener? or a knife ! (I vote knife )
    while singing -kumbaya my lord Kumbaya ! -

    sounds like Y'all never ever been truly hungry for days .... it messes with your mind and soul

    here is an Experiment if you think i dont know what im talking about :

    Do not eat for 1 day 24Hours - no food in your mouth whatsoever only water or tea ... see how you -don't- fall asleep ... and see how you wake up in the morning -Simple experiment you can start right now !

    then after that you can talk SHTF as much as you like because you actually got a taste of it <---- see what i did there ...couse you Tasted hunger !

    then imagine thousands of people that didn't eat in the last 2 days or so ..with small kids and wives ...
    Hold on to that Gold and Silver ! LMAO
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
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  11. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Supporter Supporter

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    Folks will be trading/bartering necessities and food with each other since you can't eat or wear precious metals so invest in organic seeds, agricultural and other useful hand tools to take care of yourself/family with a little extra cash crop and/or useful skills to trade for other essential items that others are making or producing-actually no different than how a lot of folks survived the depression.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  12. Corso

    Corso Guide

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    I think it will feed the masses need for shiny stuff in a crisis not unlike cigarettes and booze

    neither of those will be needed to survive but I bet plenty will sell their shirt for a dose in a crisis
     
  13. grendal

    grendal Scout

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    copper, lead, and brass are my precious metal investments. otherwise, its trade goods with real on-the-spot value.
     
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  14. marbleman

    marbleman Supporter Supporter

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    It could depend a lot on how extensive/how long SHTF is. In the long run, community and skills will probably do better than owning "things". Someone can take your things.
     
  15. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    I have seen countless SHTF what'ifin prep scenarios on the forum in any flavor imaginable ...and You know what's funny about all this threads ? ?

    You know what ? : - Is that everybody thinks they are the ones that will make it if a disaster strikes ...LMAO
    well let me be the one to break it in for ya ... If yer Older, have a condition, you take any kind of medication , you got family that depends on you now for their well being in every minor or major way ...

    Chances are extremely high Ya Not Gonna make it for long even if you got food for 100 years and amo for 200

    is gonna be the smaller things that get ya and trying to provide for yer loved ones (like going out in the streets where is not gonna be safe at all ) heck ya not gonna be safe anywhere because of fire and gangs

    but what do i know? y'all keep daydreaming , is Good for Ya !
     
  16. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    A SHTF scenario for me can be long term power outage, tornado, ice storm, job loss, or a bad agricultural season. I have experienced them all.

    If I prepare for the likelihood of those occurrences am I daydreaming?

    Sounds like someone wants to be critical of other's thoughts.

    Hike your own hike....isn't that how it goes around here?
     
  17. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    Your posts here are like me going to the Bush Medicine sub, picking the most recent thread and telling everyone they are fools and they're going to die. But rather then that I would avoid the discussion. This is a great forum and I'm sure there's something of interest to you somewhere. Lets just call this constructive criticism. :)
     
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  18. atlastrekker

    atlastrekker Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    PM's are a hedge against inflation. In a world gone crazy they will have little value, because there has to be some kind of order for them to be useful.

    That being said, diversification is always a good idea. There are no guarantees that any of these "possible scenarios" will ever happen. It's all just ifs, ands, and buts.
     
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  19. seasonofthewoods

    seasonofthewoods Lost In the Woods Supporter

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    Personally , ammo i believe booz and ammo are gonna the hottest commodity. I got about 10 little shot size southern comforts in my shtf truck bin. Dont care to drink but it may buy me , food or medicine or xbox and a TV lol
     
  20. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

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    Those become addictions though and the stress of such a situation will compound the desire for them. I've read about people saying that they don't smoke or drink but will stockpile some for barter. Those at least grant a moment of peace for the user.
     
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  21. NJStricker

    NJStricker Supporter Supporter

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    If you want commodities to trade after SHTF, stock up on tobacco and alcohol. Grow tobacco and learn to run a 'stil and you'll be a wealthy man.
     
  22. Wapitilo

    Wapitilo Tracker

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    This.
    Not all SHTF situations are the same. You can't eat PMs for sure but remember, there are going to be plenty of people who will value what you have. I think the idea that you are going to trade/give away guns or ammo is pure folly. Why would you trade away something that can be used against you, even to someone you think you can trust? In my opinion diversification is the smart move. Never put all your eggs in one basket. You don't know what the future will bring so plan for anything.
    Honestly it doesn't have to be that difficult or expensive to have a few PMs handy. Silver is cheap and easily traded. Barter while things are stable and you'll have it if and when you need it. Gold is expensive , but do you have any broken chains or jewelry around? Know anybody who needs a brake job for their broken necklace? Do these things to get your hands on a few pieces of silver and gold, and spend your hard earned dollars on the things you know will actually matter in a SHTF situation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  23. Mick Badgero

    Mick Badgero Scout

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    I thought many people on this thread were familiar with the Selco articles on the Organic Prepper web site: https://www.theorganicprepper.com/?s=selco
    Its a good starting point for a common understanding of what SHTF means.
     
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  24. Scooter

    Scooter Scout

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    I don't know him personally but I believe @Keyser Söze has seen more of a SHTF situation than most. His insight may be worth bearing the sting of his wit.
     
  25. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue Graybeard Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    Money exists for lots of reasons. Paper money could become worthless because there is nothing to back it. Something like a silver dime or quarter is easy to carry and nearly anyone can recognize it. A simple test shows it is silver. Maybe the time will come when barter/trade become the norm again. Even then it will be difficult to haul around trade goods at times. Then comes the value of money.
    Diversity is a good word when it comes to wealth. A box of 22s will be a form of wealth it that time comes, as will a stack of dimes and silver. For $16/ounce, we have nothing to lose.
    I also printed the pages from coinflation.com that explain the characteristics (amount of silver, identification, etc) for the various small coins and put them in the safe.

    Oh, one important point. Not many of us can determine the value of an old gold chain or ring. Yes, it may be marked and that can make it more useful. But, all of us can see a US dime or quarter and know what it is made of.
     
  26. Tangotag

    Tangotag Field Gear Junkie Supporter Bushclass I

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    Hand tools are the most precious metal.;) Better for barter than bullets that can come back to bite you.
     
  27. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    Depends a lot on where you live. If you found yourself in a bombed out NYC it's a whole lot different then in the country. Everyone should have some supplies at least for the short term in either case. For the long term, skills needed to replenish them is going to be the rare commodity. Right now I can hatch a dozen chickens per day from the 20 or so birds I have. It takes less then 4 months for my chickens to reach harvest size. I also have rabbits, turkeys and sheep which reproduce easily. I have the land and skills to care for them, raise and breed them. The feed grows in the pasture. I could easily and quickly expand my production to many times what I have now. Trading labor and goods with your neighbors will be how you will survive out here. If a neighbor is starving I can hire them to guard my live stock.

    How you survive will depend on your location.
     
  28. quietmike

    quietmike Hardwoodsman

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    What is the purpose of currency, whether federal reserve note or gold bullion?
    It's a universally agreed upon metric of value.

    You trade that currency for usable products or skills.

    Seems to me the products/skills are the end goal, and currency is just the means to get there.
     
  29. Mick Badgero

    Mick Badgero Scout

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    Don't know him either, but his name is from Kevin Spacey's character in the movie "The Usual Suspects", his picture appears to be from "Small Soldiers" and he lives in Narnia. Not sure that we have common grounds for communication other than liking movies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  30. Mick Badgero

    Mick Badgero Scout

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    If you are caught in NYC when the SHTF, the marauders will get you. If you live in the country and you don't have a group that outnumbers the marauders significantly, they will get you there too. If its 'only' another Great Depression, and not a SHTF, then you might stand a chance. Lots of options for SHTF, but there is strength in numbers.
     
  31. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    Absolutely correct. That's why I would be hiring those hungry neighbors to guard the animals. You get a twofer there by increasing your numbers and having one less hungry person who might steal from you.
     
  32. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    Silver is for barter while the SHTF.

    Gold is a way to store wealth until afterwards. Or for bribes to save your life or get across a checkpoint.

    They are both portable ways of carrying wealth.

    Right now, both gold and silver prices are being controlled. This is done in different ways including the use of "paper gold." Just like the dollar, it is backed by nothing. Remember: if you can't hold it, you don't have it. Silver is suppresed even more than gold. Plus, it is an industrial metal.

    PMs have a 5,000 year track record. I remember hearing stories of people in Europe fleeing the Nazis carrying their silverware, candlesticks, etc. in suitcases. They went to farmhouses and came out with suitcases full of vegetables. The point here is that even in a war torn countryside, metals can still buy vital supplies. As far as confiscation, my grandmother told me that people turned in all their gold coins because they thought it was the patrotic thing to do. She also said that there were those that did not. Then the price of gold spiked. I don't think that people who know history will repeat that mistake. Of course, there is always jewelry.

    As far as prepping is conerned, water purification, food, bullets, etc. should certainly come first. Some people already have a goodly amount of that stuff set back. Right now, sliver is about $15/oz--a good buy.

    If nothing else, go through your pocket change. While not nearly as often as in the past, you can still occasionally find pre-1964 dimes and quarters. It is found money. This "junk silver" as it is called will likely be the best thing for barter since it is recognized and is in smaller weights.

    Gold and silver will always be worth something. Certainly more than the electrons on a non-functioning screen, plastic cards that don't work and paper (at least you could start a fire or wipe your @$$ with this).

    Silver is cheap enough to keep a small amount on hand.
     
  33. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

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    sadly that is correct, and i could recommend some places anyone interested to experience human suffering and a state of real life emergency ( not SHTF) just plain misery

    Puerto Rico, Haiti , Honduras , Venezuela, Guatemala, Nicaragua
    .... most of those are safe to visit except Nicaragua right now

    Puerto Rico got hit by the hurricane and 80 % of their system and power system is down for 1 year now ... and many many other problems ... get in a plane and go walk around for 1 week , is safe
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  34. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    Like your grandma said, some people were patriots and some just needed the money. Those that broke the law were subject to the penalties shown in this attachment. The order was repealed in 1974 by Pres. Gerald Ford. That's a "temporary" law for the federal government - just 41 years or a couple generations.


    Executive_Order_6102_0.jpg
     
  35. Wapitilo

    Wapitilo Tracker

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    One thing to remember when discussing the "price" of silver and gold. The spot price is very rarely going to be what you are going to be able to buy it for. Depending on what you buy and whom you buy it from there is usually a premium. The larger the purchase, usually the lower the price. There is a pawnshop near me that sends in all their junk silver to be melted down and they sell that silver (.999 rounds) for one percent over spot. Silver has been dropping for some time and seven years ago was worth forty-eight dollars an ounce. At the current price of fifteen fifty, it is well worth going to your pawnshop and seeing what they have. If the price climbs back up it would be a worthwhile investment if you never have a SHTF situation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  36. will62

    will62 Scout

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    In the event of a SHTF event I have some .22 lr, a couple dozen mini bottles of booze, Bic lighters, assorted sizes of nails and duct tape for barter in addition to some junk silver. I had thought about stocking some tobacco like Bugler or something else that is sealed in cans for a longer shelf life.

    Silver should be a part of one's preps but I think consumables like sugar and salt should be included.
     
  37. Black5

    Black5 Supporter Supporter

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    Diversify.
    Know the assets of you and your party.

    Know the limitations also, of your group and immediate environment.

    Accept that it ain't a Hollywood movie. People die.

    Plan accordingly.
     
  38. TAHAWK

    TAHAWK Guide

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    "nails" !
    glass bottles of vinegar
    salt
    pepper
    honey
     
  39. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    For you people who may not watch the Homesteading sub someone brought up a good idea that can be used for bartering which is growing your own tobacco. It's a very cheap and easy to do prep. You can get a package of seeds (100 to 1000 count) for under $10 on Amazon then print out growing instructions for free off the internet. As a cigar smoker and part time farmer this never occurred to me. Probably because I'm more the casual prepper type. Now I'm going to be called a prepper poser :( lol But hey, you could be tobacco king up north if you have a greenhouse.
     
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  40. Corso

    Corso Guide

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    That is fascinating. How did that sit with the US constitution.

    Its almost English feudal system in its approach.
     
  41. Gary V

    Gary V Tracker

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    It looks like a king's decree now that you mention it. Our government passed the Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_with_the_Enemy_Act_of_1917 which was amended in 1933 and gave the president the authority to pass Executive Order 6102 which you are referring to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 Our government officials like to find and exploit loopholes or re purpose old laws to suit their needs for expedience.
     
  42. 1911srule

    1911srule Scout

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    450
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    Location:
    rust belt PA
    I think it is the absolute duty of American citizens to NOT comply with unconstitutional orders. Its a non violent way for the citizenry to tell an authoritarian government to pound sand...Gold confiscation back then should have sparked more than it did imho...If I had an ounce of gold right now I'd put a new roof on my garage with it...
     
    atlastrekker and Gary V like this.

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