Stolen Winchester 1892

Discussion in 'Firearms' started by Dave_Markowitz, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I got a call from the gunsmith to whom I shipped my Winchester 1892 for relining. All he received was an empty box. I'm going to file a police report for a stolen firearm tomorrow but in the meantime I'm posting this here:

    Type: Lever action rifle
    Make: Winchester
    Model: 1892
    Serial number: 100156
    Barrel length: 24 inches
    Caliber: .38 WCF AKA 38-40 Win
    Finish: Metal has turned brown. Buttstock and forend are brown walnut wood.

    The rifle is an antique manufactured in 1898 per the factory letter that I got from the Buffalo Bill Center of the Wild West.

    Pictures of the stolen rifle are attached.

    Any help in recovery will be appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Winterhorse

    Winterhorse Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    11,650
    Likes Received:
    43,518
    Location:
    Kansas
    How was it sent?
     
    DavidJAFO, pab1, Haggis and 1 other person like this.
  3. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    9,315
    Likes Received:
    59,264
    Location:
    upstate south carolina
    I am truly sorry, perhaps you can also file a claim with the shipper. I hate thieves. joe
     
  4. whtshdwwz

    whtshdwwz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2016
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    1,969
    Geographically where was it shipped from and going to....no need to name names....if we know the route it took we can be on the lookout at pawnshops, LGS's etc...I feel for you, that is a classic.
     
  5. Winterhorse

    Winterhorse Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    11,650
    Likes Received:
    43,518
    Location:
    Kansas
    Do you have the tracking on it? Packages can bounce all over the country before it gets to its destination.
     
    DavidJAFO, Enzo, pab1 and 1 other person like this.
  6. 45jack

    45jack Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    5,872
    I got no words. I hope you retrieve it.
     
  7. A K Church

    A K Church Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    I am heartbroken for you.
     
  8. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,159
    Likes Received:
    42,878
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I'd want to talk to the postmaster or whomever is in charge. Surely it was sent with a signature required?
     
  9. oathkeeper762

    oathkeeper762 Bushbum & PT Wanderer Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Messages:
    3,592
    Likes Received:
    17,456
    Location:
    East Texas
    That truly sucks, I hope you can make recovery. I love the old Winchester lever guns.
     
  10. RavenLoon

    RavenLoon axology student Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    5,341
    Location:
    U.P. Michigan
    I remember your post when you got that gun, what a shame.
     
  11. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I sent the rifle from a UPS Store located in Plymouth Meeting, PA to John Taylor, in Puyallup, WA. I learned that it went MIA when Mr. Taylor called me this afternoon, after he received a sealed, empty box. FWIW, he has an exemplary reputation so I'm not concerned that he's pulling a fast one.

    I will be filing a police report tomorrow morning and then lighting up UPS. I will be providing the police with copies of the invoice from when I bought it, from UPS, and good quality photos of the rifle.
     
  12. Dillon Finan

    Dillon Finan Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    510
    Location:
    Del Valle Texas
  13. Oldguy59

    Oldguy59 Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    427
    So sorry , looks like a fine old rifle.
     
    Dave_Markowitz, pab1 and central joe like this.
  14. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,159
    Likes Received:
    42,878
    Location:
    Arkansas
    It would have to be the driver. I worked at UPS for a while and there is no way they can get it out of the facility, they are locked down and fenced and have to go through metal detectors to get in or out.
    The only other way out of the facility is in the trucks. 18 wheeler trailers are tagged to ensure they aren't opened in transport. The delivery drivers trucks are the only other way out.

    If it wasn't signature required and it was left on a doorstep then I can imagine someone could have taken it, but cant imagine them taking the time to reseal the box.
     
  15. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    It was sent signature required, and the package was signed for by John Taylor, the intended recipient. FWIW, he has a stellar reputation, which is one reason I chose him for the work.
     
  16. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,159
    Likes Received:
    42,878
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I wasn't arguing or doubting you. Keep in mind what I said about UPS when you talk/argue with them. There are a few hubs that are less secure, but the big hubs are pretty tight. They should be able to tell exactly what lines it went through and everything.
     
  17. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    @Wasp, I didn't mean to imply you were being argumentative.
     
  18. Morrow7x

    Morrow7x Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    That's awful.

    Best of luck.

    :mad:
     
  19. pab1

    pab1 Supporter Supporter Bushclass III Bushclass I Bushclass II

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2014
    Messages:
    5,551
    Likes Received:
    20,752
    Location:
    SW Montana
    I hope you get it back.
     
  20. southron

    southron Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    1,414
    Likes Received:
    4,249
    Location:
    N.E Alabama

    That is beyond ugly. Words fail me on this happening. Even if you have insurance, something like that is irreplaceable.

    The shipper should make you whole. I'd say 500 million dollars might be sufficient. No i'm not kidding, big shippers need to feel the pain of failing, and it takes millions of dollars in cost to them to make them and all similar to stand up and take notice.

    Condolences and hope you are made whole, or as whole as possible since theft always feels like that big ol hairy monster hand reached inside you and took something out of you that you can't ever really get back.

    Excuse me I got a bad taste in my mouth from thieves. /spit.
     
  21. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,159
    Likes Received:
    42,878
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Was it insured?
     
  22. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    For $1200.
     
  23. WillyC

    WillyC Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    153
    Location:
    Pa
    I had a $600 rifle scope stolen at a UPS hub tracking showed it arrived never left.Lucky for me it was being shipped from Leupold to me and Leupold took care of it.Dont be surprised if you get a call from UPS accusing you of not shipping it I got a call from one their idiots kept going on about was I sure that I didn’t get it or maybe a neighbor got it I’ve mellowed out a lot in my old age but when I was done talking to that moron I know he knew what I thought of him.Odds are a UPS employee stole it but they won’t admit it
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  24. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I have documentation out the wazoo and my first career was as a lawyer.
     
  25. Mikem

    Mikem Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    561
    Location:
    Virginia
    That sucks.
    You have pictures, file the claim.
    Be prepared for a painful process.
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  26. Wasp

    Wasp We are GO for Sting! Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,159
    Likes Received:
    42,878
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Well at least theres that, but I'm sure you would rather have the rifle.
     
  27. OutnBacker

    OutnBacker Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    Location:
    Washington State
    I'm sorry , Dave. Lovely 92.
     
  28. Cwlongshot

    Cwlongshot Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    4,804
    Location:
    40 S&W & 22 Mag fan residing in New England
    Always a consern of mine when shipping something of value esp a firearm. Sorry to read it has Occured to you.

    Best of luck,

    CW
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  29. Tangotag

    Tangotag Field Gear Junkie Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,653
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    Location:
    WI
    Wow that sucks. My guess, it left the inside of the box right at The UPS Store (the old Mailboxes Etc.). Those independently owned businesses have always seemed like a sham to me. Why not just ship out from a UPS Customer Center instead? The difference in my area is only a few miles of driving to avoid the middle man and go straight to the shipper. My guess again, UPS received an empty box which it shipped successfully.


    This always stuck out to me as really interesting. It seems like it may be tough making a claim with UPS.
    https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/firearms.page

    Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
    Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account (specifically, Daily Pickup, Daily On-Route Pickup, UPS Smart Pickup®, and Day-Specific Pickup), or through a UPS Customer Center (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Firearms (including handguns) are not accepted for shipment via UPS Drop Boxes or UPS On-Call Pickup®, and may not be tendered to or dropped off at locations of The UPS Store®, any third party retailer, or any UPS Access Point™ location.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  30. Metaldog

    Metaldog Just chasing my tail... Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,062
    Likes Received:
    7,561
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    What a shitty disclaimer! Sorry for the foul language, but that enrages me. Your NAME is on the store, regardless of whether it is independent or not. This is the kind of crap that's wrong with this country today. Very few willing to take responsibility when something goes wrong. OH!.... unless you're a terrorist. DAMMIT :mad:
     
  31. Tangotag

    Tangotag Field Gear Junkie Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,653
    Likes Received:
    12,504
    Location:
    WI
    Very much agreed, most people assume they are all just one company. For most shipping purposes is doesn't matter but, shipping firearms is a bit of a different animal.
     
    central joe, Birdman and Metaldog like this.
  32. JohnP

    JohnP No more half measures Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Messages:
    5,463
    Likes Received:
    21,815
    Location:
    Trinity, TX
    I am very sorry that happened to you. I hope they catch ‘em and hang ‘em ftom a high tree. After retrieving your rifle, of course.

    JohnP
     
    central joe and Winterhorse like this.
  33. werewolf won

    werewolf won TANSTAAFL Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    17
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    15,059
    Likes Received:
    27,377
    Franchises are funny things. Years ago I had a really hard time at a Dunkin Donuts. I wrote a letter to the organization -- not threatening any action mind you--but bringing to their attention the nonsense that was going on at that branch. I got a nasty gram back from their legal department telling me it was a franchised location—so it was not their corporate issue—and all but accused me of being the problem. They did not refer me to the franchise owner either. I wonder if after the board of health closed the facility if he ever knew that he missed an opportunity to correct the problem.

    They should be required by law to post if they are a company owned location or a franchise just following more or less corporate standards of quality service and insurance protections.

    An insurance check is small consolation for a lost treasure. Hopefully it will turn up.
     
  34. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Welp, one more BTT from me.

    I filed the report with my local PD this morning. The officer was very helpful, especially after he saw all the documentation that I prepared and gave to him (receipts, shipping records, photos of the rifle, etc.). The report will be uploaded to the NCIC.

    I went to the UPS Store from where I shipped the rifle and I'm waiting for a call back from the owner later today. If he doesn't, I am going to raise holy hell.

    Aside from that, I have sent emails and Facebook messages to about 25 local FFLs and to 14 FFLs out in WA, the area to which I shipped the rifle. I've gotten a few replies indicating that they'll keep an eye out.

    Keeping my fingers crossed but trying not to get my hopes up.
     
  35. Black Jaque Janaviac

    Black Jaque Janaviac Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    282
    Location:
    Ouisconsin
    I wish you the best of luck!

    If there's one ray of hope I think it is the fact that this is a collector type gun. Its value won't be in the street-gang black market. So it is going to have to be sold through channels that connect with collectors. Arms list, Gunbroker, Auction arms, gunshows, etc. Hopefully the serial number will pop up then.
     
  36. Primordial

    Primordial MOA #40 Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    4,551
    Likes Received:
    35,821
    Location:
    Upper Great Lakes
    THAT BLOWS! I hope you are able to get the claim money, and some time after that have your rifle recovered in the shape as you sent it off and returned to you. I wish you the best of luck in this.
     
  37. PVF1

    PVF1 Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2018
    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    Location:
    Oregon
    Sounds like you know what to do here. I'm a former deputy prosecutor from WA (started my legal career there, but have since moved out of state). Not sure which agency would ultimately have jurisdiction in this instance but a good guess is Puyallup city police and Pierce County sheriff's office, since the crime was discovered upon receipt in Puyallup. Washington State Patrol may also exercise statewide jurisdiction in stolen firearm cases -- not sure.

    I see you already filed a report with your local PD in Pennsylvania and that they are entering the theft report into NCIC. Do you know if your local agency is also reaching out to Puyallup PD/PCSO/WSP? Might be a good idea to contact non-emergency police services for the above agencies and have your local case number ready. Worst they can say is that they're waiting to hear from your local agency.

    Not legal advice, of course, just something to consider. And I'm sorry for your loss here. I hope they recover your property and hold the offender(s) accountable.
     
  38. clueless on the delaware

    clueless on the delaware Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2014
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    521
    Location:
    philly, pa
    @dave-markowitz
    I feal your pain brother, ive had on e stolen as well. I'm not too far at all from you, i'll keep an eye out at the local shops i drop by regularly
     
  39. dougx

    dougx Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    205
    Location:
    SW PA
    I hope all turns out well but I'll never ship a firearm with UPS. They broke a rifle stock that I sent out an had assurance on and would not pay out. I will never use them again.
     
  40. x39

    x39 Hyperborean Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    6,470
    Likes Received:
    23,266
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    If UPS gets too snarky, maybe call in the feds as the theft occurred during an interstate transaction?
     
  41. MadMarcus

    MadMarcus Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    738
    Damn that sucks Dave. Best of luck recovering the gun or at least the money.
     
  42. kronin323

    kronin323 Nobody Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    4,031
    Location:
    Austin, TX
  43. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    9,315
    Likes Received:
    59,264
    Location:
    upstate south carolina
    I think that would be the ATF, they at least used to periodically check gun shops for license compliance. When they came to the one I worked at, they went through every serial number and matched it up to the paperwork. It was a small shop though. joe
     
    DavidJAFO, Winterhorse and x39 like this.
  44. Moosemeat

    Moosemeat Tinder Gatherer

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    There are a few different web sites where you can list your stolen firearms SN. I had a Ruger Redhawk "Stolen" at the Ruger factory when it was sent back for repair. Ruger claimed it never arrived, UPS tracking showed its last scan at Sturm, Ruger & Co.. Wasn't like they got an empty box, Ruger just claimed they never received it.
     
    central joe and Winterhorse like this.
  45. MountainWanderer

    MountainWanderer Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2018
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    Location:
    Pacific NW USA
    That’s terrible. I hope all the best for the OP.

    Unfortunately, for most parts of the country, it’s hard to find gunsmiths who really know their stuff today. The old time local ‘smith well versed and skilled with many types of guns is a rarity. So, we’re forced to pay the higher costs & take the risks of shipping guns not easily replaced clear across the country.
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  46. Birdman

    Birdman Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    2,315
    Likes Received:
    7,022
    Location:
    NW Oregon
    Any update on this? How is UPS handling it?
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  47. Paul Foreman

    Paul Foreman Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    20,843
    Location:
    Sellers, Alabama, in South Montgomery County
    good grief ...
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  48. Dave_Markowitz

    Dave_Markowitz Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,066
    Likes Received:
    1,664
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    Still investigating.
     
  49. OutnBacker

    OutnBacker Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,788
    Likes Received:
    4,060
    Location:
    Washington State
    It's getting late in the day, but I will personally visit as many pawn shops and gunshops as I can in the area, and leave Notice to contact me. My sister-in-law works for the King Co Sherriff, evidence section. I'll get word to her. I know she'll keep an eye out for it, as well as contact anyone she knows in Pierce Co.

    I will add, though, this type of rifle is probably not going to end up at a pawn shop or seized as evidence. Someone knew what they were looking at, and it's likely now a "trophy".
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    BBizy, central joe and Winterhorse like this.
  50. randyt

    randyt Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    2,886
    Likes Received:
    2,303
    Location:
    tipp of the mitt
    wow, this is terrible. I hope for a good outcome for you.
     

Share This Page