storing meat in a pond

Discussion in 'Food' started by Terasec, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Terasec

    Terasec Scout

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    found this part of the article interesting,
    havent searched but wondering how much info is out there on this,
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    Excavators found several mammoth bones at the bottom of what was once a pond, as well as three out-of-place boulders. Fisher suggested that primitive humans might have stored the meat at the bottom of the pond, intentionally placing boulders in the pond to anchor the body parts down. Fisher explained that, when you anchor animal parts in certain ponds, other animals have a hard time scavenging the material, and the bacteria in the pond will actually protect the remains from other, harmful bacteria. Fisher said he has tried this technique himself with meat from a variety of animals and never got sick from it. “It actually works much better than you might think,” he said.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ancient-mammoth-bones-marked-human-191812095.html#mycomments
     
  2. alannguyen

    alannguyen Supporter Supporter

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    Interesting...thanks
     
  3. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    pretty cool, we knew it kept the beer cold
     
  4. Terasec

    Terasec Scout

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    more interesting info on it
    -----------
    http://www.ur.umich.edu/9495/May08_95/storage.htm

    The University Record, May 8, 1995
    Underwater storage techniques preserved meat for early hunters
    By Sally Pobojewski
    News and Information Services
    By re-creating a way of life that vanished from the Great Lakes thousands of years ago, a U-M paleontologist has demonstrated how PaleoIndians living in the region at the end of the last Ice Age preserved meat from large animal kills by storing it underwater.
     
  5. arleigh

    arleigh Guide

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    I had known that some folk put some of their goods in the well, and had cabinets in the kitchen using the cool temperatures under the house to keep some things cool .
    Certainly storing meat in the frigid temperatures of lakes and ponds might help . it's good to know that the bacteria that preserved it might still have a future in our quest to store meat.
     
  6. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    ....Cool maybe...not cold.....LOL
     
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  7. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    That depends on if you’re ice fishing or not ;p
     
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  8. Nakadnu

    Nakadnu OBSERVER Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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    So, who decides which lucky new guy has to try the meat that they stored underwater to test this theory?
    That's true dedication.

    Thanks for sharing this.
     
  9. Expo 6

    Expo 6 Scout

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    During warm summer months, bodies of freshwater stratify based on water density, a function of temperature. As a result, the upper layer, called the epilimnion, is warm, oxygen rich and full of microbes. The bottom layer, called the hypolimnion, is cold, oxygen poor and has very few microbes compared to the epilimnion. Additionally, nitrates, which are often used to preserve meats, are released from the benthic substrate (the bottom) and reminerlaized from decaying organic matter.

    As a result, I can see this being a surprisingly effective meat storage option particularly in oligitrophic (nutrient poor) systems.
     
  10. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    I saw a documentary on excavated mammoth bones. All had large rocks in there chest cavities. geology said those rocks shouldn't be there. The area was a ancient lake and human hunters had put the rocks there to keep the carcass from drifting away. Of course the supposed purpose was meat preservation and to keep scavengers from Stealing your dinner. I do remember they said it was likely a cold and alkali lake (don't ask me what that means.) I want to say it was pbs show but could have be natgeo.

    Sorry now I think of it it might have been mastadon. It might matter if you want to try and find the film.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  11. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    That kinda what I was thinking......
    "Give it to Mikey, he'll eat anything...."
    Y'all can have mine.
     
  12. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    True....used this water beer cooler for fall bow hunt trips....
    Worked pretty well.
    Canoed in, stayed a week camped n a wall tent...the .heavy duty cooler was for food....so milk crates tethered in the river became the cooler.

    Was hunting down stream...saw beer cans floating....didn't register right away...Like 'Hey, lookie the beer.....and It's my brand...holy carp....it's mine!!!"

    Emergency trip back to re-tie that crate ....

    Don't know about meat....waterlogged meat isn't very appetizing...
     
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  13. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

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    Air tight sealed meat... I forgot what the stuff is called but we used to have one of those sealing machines for packing meat in a thick plastic that pulled the air out... I've done the beer in a river before... I used one of those net bags with the draw string and a rock to make sure it stayed on the bottom... how else you gonna hide the liquor from the teacher on duty to watch us on campus?!
     
  14. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Our local museum has a mammoth skeleton...dug up from a swamp...with cut marks on the bones...
    They figure that age is 13000+ years old.

    Smells like reaching into a bog pulling up a waterlogged stick..out of black gooey mud.....and then taking a bite out of it.
     
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  15. mugsy

    mugsy Scout

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    Swampburger anyone?
     
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  16. snapper

    snapper Guide

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    A friend of mine who grew up in the Adirondacks used to tell stories about how they'd can & seal venison in mason jars and then hide them in the bottom of their spring houses since there was more meat than one deer could provide. The spring created the refrigeration and the sealed jars never leaked so all was good.

    That's all for now. Take care and until next time....be well.

    snapper
     
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  17. Jakuka

    Jakuka Scout

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    Didn't see the show you referenced but I'm assuming they were suggesting it was an alkaline lake. So neutral water has a pH of 7. Below that is acidic and above that is alkaline. Seawater is a shade over 8 if I remember correctly. High alkaline lakes are what they are because of various dissolved salt compounds in the water. I know that the really high ones have a pH that gets up around 10 or more. So what they were saying would definitely make sense as to why it would have made a good preservative....all that salt, combined with the chilling effect of cold water. Wonder if it did anything for the taste?
     
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  18. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    In the ancient world salt was on par with gold pound for pound as preservative in constant demand. Fueled early kingdoms all over the world. You probably are bang on and may have just explained the path to us figuring it out. Those early hunters must have wondered why it didn't work in all lakes.
     
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  19. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    @Jakuka finally found what I think is the correct documentary. Trouble is (by some obscure law) I can't watch pbs online broadcasts from a Canadian l.p, even though they get broadcast from American tv stations here. So i can only go off the short description which is intentially vague. Hope it's the right one and if not at least interesting.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/ice-age-death-trap.html
     
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  20. Akela

    Akela Scout

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    The old Weir flip top N0 5 stoneware jugs kept in a cool shady part of the creek worked well too.
     
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  21. haunted

    haunted Guide

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    ive stored meat in a pond ....fish
     
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  22. Jonah L. Archer

    Jonah L. Archer Guide Bushclass II

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    A few years ago, I shot an elk during an unseasonably warm week. We were a long way from the nearest town. Once we had the elk in quarters, the question came up as what to do with them.

    Next to our camp was a small creek fed by snow run-off. The decision was made to store the quarters in a deep pool.

    Works great. Meat stayed cool for 2 days and we didn't have to make an unnecessary trip to town.

    I wouldn't want to rely on this method long-term, but short term I think it's a valid method.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 11:21 AM
  23. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    Lol i do that to. I keep mine free range in the lake. They just don't seem to back when I call them!
     
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  24. mugsy

    mugsy Scout

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    indeed! wars were fought over salt.
     
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  25. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

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    I would imagine its safe factor deoends on how large the body of water and what kind of pollution exists either by in flow and run off or animals. I've seen small ponds full of geese that would have been more than I would trust. I could see putting it In mountain streams before still water.
     
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  26. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    They sure were. War was the method by which those early kingdom's were established. Control the salt and or the water. You own the farmers. If folk have to come to you for food then they're more apt to follow your orders. Once you've got an army of big n burlies. You declare all the land yours. Everyone else lives there because you say they can. (See William the conqueror argued the founder of modern English law although the magna Carta came much later and was largely toothless!) Now you've moved from kingdom to Empire! By that point you've got an elite class that ever want more. So the Empire expands. (See ancient Rome) and onward upward and a lot of sideways pear shape stuff along the way!
     
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  27. Jean

    Jean Guide

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    It always bothered me that salt wasn't a critical resource in the early stages of the civilization game.
     
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  28. Jakuka

    Jakuka Scout

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    @Zunga I think I found a link for it that anyone can see. They start talking about the meat cache at about the 40:00 minute mark...in case anyone was short on time and wanted to skip ahead.


     
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  29. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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  30. Zunga

    Zunga Scout

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    Never occurred to me till you mentioned it. But then I recall a video game box cover (action scene) it showed bullets in flight with the trail/shockwave behind it. Problem was. They were casing and slug depicted. Someone must have thrown them super hard! Lol
     
  31. hunter63

    hunter63 Bushmaster

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    Little up date...
    Today was our Christmas meeting of our Archaeological Society.

    In attendance was the Professor of Anthropology, the Museum Director, and the amateur archaeologist ...all involved with the discovery of the cutting marks on the mammoth bones.

    They had heard of caching meat in water...as the swamps where the bones were dug up...had been glacial pool (cold water) as the last ice age was warming up...tied down with rocks by using the guts tied to them.

    As mammoths are big...tribes or groups were small,.... a kill may have been wasted had the not found a way to keep some of the meat.

    They also were nomadic so was not practical to carry a lot....the lake was a good place to store meat ...under the ice......and cold water.
    They seem to agree that most caches were used fairly short term....season to season ...meat used during the "winter/spring starving times".

    The Doc related that a friend had a rear quater of a horse...just pushed down under the ice on a frozen lake....out side inch or so was kinda funky...but cut that away...the rest was fine...he ate it.

    Oops....same ink as post 4
    http://www.ur.umich.edu/9495/May08_95/storage.htm

    Seems that this was a viable technique...at least short term......
    Drying was also done extensibility....
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 9:01 PM

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