Stove? Central or on the wall?

Discussion in 'Winter Camping' started by Moondog55, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Wall is probably the easiest, centrally warmer
    If I use the central position I need some guidance on how best to install the vertical flue
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    The only reason for using this tent is cost
    They want $145- which The Boss says I can spend
    Also while I haven't made the stove yet the design is fixed in my head and I have all the material to make it with here
    I am considering the central position because this tent will most probably collapse in the first snowfall unless I add in an extra vertical pole to support the roof [ as well as a couple n each side I guess] wall is easiest but is centrally the best?
    12 * 12 plus the vestibules
     
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  2. Natch

    Natch Scout

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    How do you plan to make the stove jack in the top of the tent? I've thought about buying a tent like that and doing something similar, but not knowing how to do that kept me from doing so.
     
  3. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Good question and I really don't know.
    Getting a good tight seal between flue and tent would probably need a silicon gasket but then how to put the wind cap on?
    There is mesh in the top of the inner and I'd over-sew that with fire blanket with an "X" in it to fit the flue
    I think I'd have to thread the flue though first then put up the tent, fussy but it is for a 3 month fixed camp not an overnite stay
    I'd probable put a sleeve type slot in the top of the fly and get one of those rubber boots already attached to some aluminium sheet or maybe just silicon and rivet it in place
     
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  4. DarrylM

    DarrylM Guide

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    How many people are sleeping at once? If it's just you, or two of you sharing the heat of the stove, you'd maximize your living space putting it near the wall. If there's 3 or more, everyone gets a better share of heat from a central stove.
     
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  5. beeperboy

    beeperboy Scout

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    If you go through the wall with the flue, you have less hot embers falling on the roof. That's what I did on my canvas wall tent. The stove was next to the door, so it was easier to load with firewood. This configuration makes the best use of floorspace, and people can find the spot that the temperature suits them best. I sleep next to the stove, so I can stoke it without having to get out of my sleeping bag.
     
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  6. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Mainly me or me and a mate both with king size cots.
    I think I will really need that strong centre pole as well as the frame
    If I go though the wall that is easiest
    Being double skin it won't take much to heat. Hmmmm? Rubber boot on the tent wall or the fly? On the fly I may need some serious reinforcement in case it shakes a lot in the wind
     
  7. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Well the extended vestibule is where I'd stash the ready use wood
    The door is fixed on one side so the best place to put the stove is on the RH side in the attached picture
     
  8. beeperboy

    beeperboy Scout

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    I've had the best sleeps of my life in my tent with wood stove crackling.
     
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  9. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Me too. Probably because I'm tired from all the wood sawing and chopping
     
  10. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    Is a tent with a stove really necessary in Australia? I admittedly don't know much about the land down under, but I hear it's hot, dry, and kangaroos.

    I would put the stove near the wall. Makes for better space in a tent I think.
     
  11. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    In winter above the snowline most definitely
    IMG_0020.JPG [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Yes we get snow, lots of it at times; heavy wet snow and very similar conditions and terrain as Scotland
    These pictures are taken with 2 different tents and a month apart, 160 klick winds and a metre of snow will do that. lost 3 cheap tents last ski season
    Need to dry out the ski clothes after all
     
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  12. Bitterroot Native

    Bitterroot Native Guide

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    Haha I sure ate my own words! I clearly see the need for a stove now Moondog55. The trees and snow in those pics almost looks like some of the high deserts of the American West in winter.

    Thanks for sharing that, Australia is a much more diverse place than I thought!
     
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  13. Todd1hd

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    I read the words "rubber boot" a couple of times in the above posts. If I am thinking correctly that you want to run the stove pipe through the rubber boot for a water tite seal, the rubber will not stand up to the heat of the stove pipe for long.
     
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  14. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    When I say rubber hear silicon rubber, good to 880C but even the ordinary black rubber should be good to over 300C and after the stack robber heat exchange there shouldn't be much heat left
    I don't think I have mentioned the stack-robber in this post, basically LW steel top-hat; the kind used for drywall; wired around the flue then painted with high temperature enamel.
     
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  15. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Not as cold as the Continental 48 but hotter in some places; Marble Bar and Death Valley are similar for instance.
    We get snow over 800 metres in the South Eastern part of the continent in winter, very seldom below that but the High Plains area is quite big but above the snowline average winter temperatures seldom drop below -12C although we have had record lows of -28C in a few places.
     
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  16. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    thick fiberglass cloth doubled up for the pipe exit, put stove and pipe in middle
     
  17. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Thanx for the advice on FG cloth, I'll be using that but going through the wall on the RH side.
    The tent fabric iself is a touch degraded so it will get the diluted silicon treatment but also it will get a second fly.
    I just got a waterproof polyester fly that is 4m * 5m [ 12 * 15feet] for $69- via ebay and 160GSM cloth is strong enough
    I've included a few pix of the tent I am working on, adding extra wands etc eBay tent4.jpg IMG_9643.JPG IMG_9644.JPG
     

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  18. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I'm also open to any ideas on making this summer tent stronger and warmer for a cold wet winter.
    I am at the moment replacing all the 10mm F wands with 12.4mm wrapped because I can't afford proper Easton aluminium alloy.
    The supporting poles for the flexible wands are 16mm thin steel and not all that strong even if the triangulated arrangement is stronger than them being vertical; I'm wondering if an extra short section in the centre of each pole will make any difference or if I should replace them with 20 * 1.6mm or 22 * 2mm Aluminium.
    I've purchased thru eBay a water resistant 4m * 5m polyester tarp that just covers the tent; I was going to make a separate external frame using some aluminium tubing I have here, a pair of old adjustable crutches and some extra FG+PVC conduit to give and air-gap but perhaps that is spending too much time and money for not much extra.
    If I make an air-gap then will I need to put some vents in the crown of the fly like Hilleberg does with most of their expedition tents
     
  19. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I'm not going to worry about another additional external frame
    I am simply going to make the existing frame a strong as possible, just asked Tom at TPT for a quote on new 12.4mm Easton wands for the crossovers and I'll be asking if it is possible to curve the 19mm sections to give me a really strong end arch which if need be I'll also use a vertical support [ or two] in the middle
     
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  20. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Well it seems like TPT can't bend anything bigger than the half inch
    How do people with broken poles for the REI Kingdom cope because they are 16mm [ 0.625"] and highly curved
     
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  21. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    My guess is that REI has a deal for extra poles with their specific supplier, and that supplier has developed the ability to bend the thicker poles. Good way to keep business in house for them, annoying for the DIY person who wants poles with that level of strength.

    Question (and sorry if you're discussed this before), have you ever looked into a geodesic dome framework for the type of strength you're hoping to get with your tent? (Are geodesics too big of a visual footprint for this project?)
     
  22. teb_atoz

    teb_atoz Banned Member Banned

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    Check out TENTSMITHS or similar companies as they seel stove jackes, typically for canvas tensts that you can probable get to work.

    cheers
     
  23. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I'd be using one of the big Geodesic tents from Cabelas if only their shipping costs were more reasonable, Cabelas want $510- AUD to ship the Instinct to Australia

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/cabe...edium=AFF&utm_source=41227&rid=12&WT.tsrc=AFF

    We pay tax on the total cost so $400 USD for shipping + $999-USD [ 1399 / 0.7 + 10% = 2198 AUD+ fixed cost customs charge $120-AUD] equals I can't afford it

    You can't avoid the physical cost of size, double the tent size it needs to be 4 times as strong, this tent is 3 times the size of my mountain tent so it needs to be 16 times as strong
    That can't be avoided as I need the height for comfort over the 6 to 8 weeks I'll be skiing
     
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  24. KFF

    KFF Tracker

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    Why a cheap summer tent, why not a army surplus waxed canvas? Is transport and weight an issue?
     
  25. rsnurkle

    rsnurkle Supporter Supporter Bushclass I Bushclass II

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    Ahh, my suggestion wasn't to buy one, it was to build one. I saw a rash of geodesic dome builds on the hammockforums for several scouting groups, and they made the framing process look possible for people without engineering degrees. With your DIY willingness, I wondered if DIY dome frame + skin would give you the kind of frame strength you've been working towards, and still be in a pulk-able format.
     
  26. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Building one I run up against a similar problem in that I need to import the joiners and lots of other stuff.
    Yes I have thought about it but so far the logistics have made modifying old tents cheaper.
    It isn't the frame so much as getting a really tight weatherproof skin made, to work where I camp the tent skin really needs to be as tight as a drum so there is minimal flapping
    An extra large tunnel tent is in the works for the future, something along the lines of the Hilleberg Stallon but a bit smaller
    If REI made a winterised version of the Kingdom series I'd simply buy one of those, the design is perfect for my needs but the materials are too lightweight for winter as are the number of poles
    When we were last in new York we did investigate buy 2 small kingdom tents with a view to joining them but funds were low after 5 weeks with family and we couldn't afford it. Since then I've been hoping that REI would listen to customer feedback and start offering a winter version but so far they don't seem to think there is a market
     
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  27. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Yes
    I need a big tent for comfort but I also need to be able to pulk it in to the camp site, and cheapness is dictated by my severe lack of funds;
    my beloved wife can't afford to support my winters and I'm no longer working and I have no pension income, I get a small allowance as I am my beloveds primary carer but all that pays is my fuel costs and a beer or two every month
    It takes me all year to save for my annual ski pass even at the reduced old farts rate of 50% off/ half cost
     
  28. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    So I had a go at bending some 16mm alloy pole section I had here but it is harder than I thought, I used 12mm FG wand sections as a mandrel but didn't bother to make a former, obviously I need to do this again but will need to make some sort of form to act as a bending template. Any advice on how to make one quickly and easily for a one-time use?
    My first thought was to bend some PVC conduit to the curve and bang in nails on the inside edge but I don't know if that will work on aluminium tubing
     

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  29. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Been sewing
    Even though I have decided not to use secondary poles on the outside I added the webbing loops anyway, circumstance may change as they have a habit of doing. Sewed the big side awning windows shut so I can use the 8 layers of fabric to put a big solid side guy into that seam.
    All of the cheap LW guy points have been triple sewn with 25mm polyester webbing and that webbing has where possible been sewn to a seam with bar-tacks
     
  30. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    @Todd1hd
    I just scored a large roof flashing with a boot included but it only has EDPM boot, so taking heed of your warning [ because EDPM can only handle 115C for long periods of time I'll make a double wall for the flue using a small friction lidded tin
    The flashing with boot was only $5- so worthwhile mucking about with and better safe than sorry Thanx for the warning
     

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