Surviving PLOI

Discussion in 'Preparedness' started by LostViking, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    @Gary V recently posted a thread on surviving and how would we feed ourselves?

    In that thread, @Glock Holiday posted a question about Yellowstone and volcanic winter.

    Sure our economy can and will collapse. Yellowstone will definitely blow.
    The Russians and Cubans may descend from the sky in a second Red Dawn scenario.

    All that will happen. Eventually.

    But until then how will we survive PLOI??

    PLOI is one of the most pressing survival issues of our generation.

    It isn't as obvious as the Skull Asteroid they want you to worry about hitting us on Halloween.
    I'm not even sure why the Skull is even news. It will pass safely at around 24 million miles.
    It was way closer the last time. And guess what? We lived.

    Could Ebola wipe out the human race? Possibly, but not likely. But the news would have you believe it might.

    Yet they never mention PLOI!!

    I know what your saying.
    Alright Viking, what the Heck is PLOI.

    PLOI is so frightening, the talking heads dare not mention it. It is so devastating, people don't even prepare for it.

    There is no vaccination for PLOI.
    The CDC says a large portion of Americans are infected. And they are powerless to do anything about it.

    The truth is, they don't want to do anything about it.

    PLOI is destroying people's lives right now. Today!

    Yellowstone could be another million years. Sure some day it may pop like a big pimple, long overdue. Or just like that pimple, it could go away only to resurface at a later date.

    PLOI is here and now. I'm willing to bet many folks here have PLOI.

    Like many diseases PLOI starts out slow. But gradually it takes hold.

    It's not acute, it's chronic. If you could compare it to a similar disease. It would be very much like Leprosy. It eats away at you in a very similar manner.

    At first, you know something is wrong. But you don't know what. Then one day a finger falls off.
    No big deal you have 9 more. Then another one drops. It's invasive.

    PLOI is like that.
     
    jayclimber, Shagaroo, pb0201 and 8 others like this.
  2. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    PLOI = Parasitic Loss Of Income.

    Parasitic Loss Of Income (PLOI) is destroying America.

    It's everywhere. I always say, it's not what you make, it's what you keep.
    If you make three hundred thousand, and only keep twent grand. You may as well just make twenty grand.

    Everywhere ai look I see PLOI. It's sneaky, and ofteh disguised.

    Example;

    If you were going to open a store. Your store is nothing new really. It really won't even be that good.

    Limited quanities of lower quality products. Not much selection, and bad service.
    To make things worse. You will charge way more than any other store sells the same stuff for.

    OK hear me out.
    I'm going to open a store selling low quality goods, small selection, with bad service. But I'm going to charge more!

    Recipe for disaster right?

    Well maybe, maybe not.

    I guess I should give my store a name.
    I know, I'll call it the "Badly Run Expensive Store"

    Well that didn't work out too well. Crashed and burned in six months. No one came to my "Badly Run Expensive Store"

    I really don't want to fix any of the real issues. Because I really don'r care about any of you. You can see that by the condition of my bathrooms. If I even let you use them.

    Nope, don't care, don't want to change. But I need business. So what to do?

    I know, I'll change the name.
    I'll call it a "Convienence Store"

    That's right folks.

    I have placed this low quality small selection of garbage that is over priced, and you will be served poorly. But now it is for your "Convenience"

    Suddenly I am seeing customer traffic. I can't believe it people are paying way more than they should. Bcause I told them it's convenient.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  3. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Now the State where I live looks out for its people. They see me charging more, for bad sevice and low quality goods.
    So they send out someone to investigate.

    Was does that inspector see? Traffic!

    He reports back to his superiors. He says man that place is really bad. It smells, there is nothing healthy in there. The clerks have a bad attitude. It really is the bottom of the barrel.

    His superiors ponder the situation for months.
    They watch the traffic increase.
    They see the money flowing.

    My state is against gambling. It's illegal. They think it is unhealthy. So what do they do. Well they latch onto the gravy train. They give me a lotto machine. They actually gave it to me. They even came and installed it. Right there next to my cash register.

    Man this is really looking up. Let's review.
    Low quality goods, Check,
    Poor Selection, Check,
    Bad Service, Check,

    Now to that, I have added mathematically impossible odds gambling. I paid nothing for that and my state gives me a cut.

    Life is good!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  4. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    A convenience store is an excellent example of PLOI.

    It's so subtle, you really don't even feel the pain. And it's hidden well.

    Convenience is code. Convenience = Expensive

    You planned poorly and didn't get to make that awesome Turkey sandwich on home made rye bread with fresh veggies and good mustard. Which was both heathy and cheap.

    Now you're standing in my Convenience Store, code for Expensive Store. You want that sandwich on homemade rye, fresh roasted turkey, crisp veggies, and great mustard.

    But what you get is; a stale roll, that may or may have been dropped on the floor. Some yellowish looking stuff that sort of tastes like turkey. Some green stuff, probably lettuce, red goo, may have been a tomato at some point. And a concrete trowel full of mayonnaise slathered on both sides of the bread.

    You wanted mustard, but remember, our service sucks. But don't worry. To make up for the bad service. I'm going to charge you way more than it would have cost anywhere else in town. And roughly three times what it would cost you to make it yourself at home.

    Right there by the check out counter. I have "conveniently" placed a bag of air. The label says chips. But it's mostly air. Again, I'll charge you more for that too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  5. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    That folks is just the tip of the iceberg.

    After you leave my store. You jump in your vehicle.

    Deep down you're a little angry at yourself. Because on some subconscious level, you know you just got screwed in my store.

    On an even deeper level, you know you really screwed yourself. Because if you planned better, you'd be munching on a great home made sandwich with great mustard. You don't even like mayonnaise!

    So, to take your mind off that bad decision. You click on your radio. Your commute is only 20 minutes. But you can't stand "Regular" radio. You want the Willie Nelson Channel. So you had Sirius Satellite Radio installed in your vehicle.

    Sure there is monthly fee. But Willie is worth it. You are worh it! Rock on Willie!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  6. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    I agree on what you've said so far except for one thing. Your example of the person making $300k, but with his spending he might as well make $20k. I'll use your same numbers for my reasoning. The person that makes $300k doesn't have to live like he does. The fact that he still has $20k left over is a plus. He's still living well. He might not enjoy life as freely if he reduced his spending, but even at half his income he could still live comfortably. He has those options. The man making $20k doesn't have many options. Depending on where he lives he is either just barely getting by, in a bad section of town, getting assistance or likely a combination of those. He doesn't have the option of living drastically below his means. The truth is, people often spend what they make. At the upper end of the scale though you don't have to.
     
  7. Panzer

    Panzer Prepared Wanderer Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    3,343
    Location:
    Ohio
  8. DCPugh

    DCPugh Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    Location:
    Near dc
    Just roll with it, it makes since. You work your life away and then spend everything you’ve made. For the most of America anyway.
     
  9. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Agreed, we can adjust the numbers somewhat. It is the what you keep point, I was trying to drive home. I probably should have had those two numbers closer together.

    I would counter though with this. If a many making 20K loses his job. He stands to lose a lot less than the man making 300K.

    And you are also correct in that more money eguals a better house, in a better neighborhood, probably in a better school district. But the other side of that equation is higher mortage, higher taxes, higher insurance costs, higher car payments.

    I do concede, at some level it becomes a different scenario.

    To be honest, writing this today stemmed from two things. The other thread I mentioned above, and a grocery trip I took with the bride last weekend.

    We were in BJ's. We needed paper plates. I buy cheap plates. Just you basic plate. White. I don't need art on my paper plates. The cheapest paperplates they nad were $12.00. Granted they were in a large bag.

    I snapped like a dry twig. It just hit me.
    I may as well just throw $12.00 Bucks right in the garbage can. Because that is where the paper plates will end up.

    I don'rt really want to preach to anyone. I just want folks to stop and think. I also realize many of my threads won't appeal or apply to a lot of folks nere. It isn't my job to pass judgement. But I feel obligated at times to pass on what I see.

    Paper Plates = Convenience
    Convenience = Expensive
    Therefore
    Paper Plates = Expensive

    I have these little epiphanies from time to time.

    I am guilty of using way to may paper plates. Because I hate doing dishes. This thread is as much for me as it is for anyone else.

    About 5 years ago. I went through this exact thing with, believe it or not, Red Solo Cups. When I saw how much a bag of them cost. I said no more. I missed them for about a week. Haven't looked back. Better for my check book, better for the environment.

    Now I'm not saying, if you throw a party not to pick up a package of Red Solo Cups. Or Blue for that matter. I'm jsut saying I don't use them any more on a regular basis.

    This is most definitely a work inprogress.
    And I agree with you assertions. I could have chosen better numbers starting off. But the premise remains the same.

    The sole reason I posted this up is to try and help folks keep more of their hard earned money in their pockets. I really have nothing to gain. Other than to share my experiences in the hope it helps others.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
    funkja, jayclimber, Shagaroo and 6 others like this.
  10. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    6,947
    Location:
    Casstown, Ohio
    More and more pearls of wisdom are lost on far too many in the general population.

    A number of years back DW and I took one of the Dave Ramsey FP courses. During the discussion of the emergency fund, every single person in the room acknowledged and understood the reason and need for it. DW and I attempted to add to the discussion by suggesting the same principle could be applied to the pantry (food and household goods). If you have a reasonably stocked pantry then that emergency fund will go further because you are not spending as much of it on food and such during the emergency. You would have thought we had each grown a second head. The concept just didn't click.
     
  11. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    As you're driving down the road, rocking out to Willie.

    Your dasboard rings. It's your new IPhone 51. Your IPhone 50 worked fine. But the 51 has IOS 200, faster facial recognition and liquid plutonium display. Sure it was $1,200.00 but man is it cool.

    I have no idea what the cellular plans run these days.
    I walked away from my IPhone when it was just an Iphone. I skipped 2 through 50.

    I spoke with a woman before last Christmas. She was telling me her and her husband were having trouble making ends meet. She said they both had good paying jobs but money was tight. A few sentences later, she spits out she is buying all three of her kids new IPhones for Christmas.

    Not knowing prices, I asked how much a new IPhone cost? She says right around a thousdand dollars. So I say, well there goes three thousand dollars.

    She says, no there goes five thousand dollars! I say, why. She says well my husband and I are getting new ones too.

    In one breath, she is saying she can't make ends meet. In the next she is dumping five large on family phones.

    She also mentioned, they go out to eat roughly three nights a week. To the tune of around $100.00 per night. Not counting special occasions like birthdays, or other things.

    That's $15,600.00 a year in restaurant bills. Without the special occasions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
    Rare Steel, sea6ear, Guy and 11 others like this.
  12. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks

    ^^^Things Like This***

    My wife was downsized in October of last year. I was downsized the Friday before Christmas. Unrealted jobs in different industries. Both with solid work histories and no behavior issues.

    I am truly glad we live life like we do. With high debt loads, and parasitic losses, it would have been a crushing blow.

    She got another position fairly quickly. I have not. I also don't have the luxury of Unemployment. I did however collect two weeks back in 1981 or 1982 I can't remember.

    We ate out of our pantry. We are just starting to restock now.
     
  13. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,824
    Likes Received:
    47,689
    Location:
    upstate south carolina
    I admit it, I'm lost except for living beyond your means. joe
     
  14. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Not all of this is high tech either.

    I'm writing because as I said to my wife this weekend. It is almost like the system is designed to keep poor people poor.

    A roll of Scott toilet tissue (1000 sheets) in our local Price Chopper supermarket is around $1.89

    Last weekend I bought a 36 roll package of Scott Toilet Tissue (1,100 sheets) for .89 cents /per roll. Plus my wife clipped a $3.00 coupon out of their flier.

    So we stuffed $39.00 in our pockets. Just on Toilet paper.

    I'm not a true prepper. But I like my TP. We always have at least a year's supply on hand.

    During the cooler months, we bake most of our own bread.
    But we snagged two loaves of Arnold whole grain and Oat bread. They were a full two dollars per loaf cheaper than the exact same loaf in Price Chopper. Same bread, same dates, just four dollars cheaper.
     
  15. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Stay with me brother. This thread might not be for you.
    You may already be there.

    And it isn't necessarily about living beyond your means. It's about paying more for the same things.

    Or paying for stuff you really don't need at all.

    Again, this thread will not be for everyone. And that's fine. It's a free country and folks are free to do as they choose.

    It is for folks looking to keep more of what they earn. Be it 20K or 300K.
     
  16. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    16,355
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Location:
    Narnia
    don't forget to " Bundle Up "

    exp:
    House phone line - that's redundant this days and is a scammer magnet -

    TV cable - all the channels you don't really need or watch-ever- but it's in the bundle !!

    and

    Internet - wooo hooo !!!

    - don't get to excited , It's the lowest speed posible - course is bundled up for ya -by " Experts "that know that if you need a house line + cable channels + internet for $99.00/ month ... ya probably only got 5 clicks above retarded IQ
     
    The Woodsrunner, Guy, Ragman and 5 others like this.
  17. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    Without quoting your entire post, I'll counter that even moving those numbers close together my point is the same. Let's say $100k and $30k. Again, depending on location the $30k isn't much. The $100k in the same area one may live quite well on. Lets say that the median income for the area to live comfortably (which I know is relative) is $50k. My argument in these examples is that the one with the higher income doesn't have to act like he makes $100k a year. He can spend like he is making $75k, still live better than most and have a $25k cushion. You can always chose to live below your means if you have the income to meet the basics, but you can't on the other end of the scale.
     
  18. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Agreed!
     
    Winterhorse and central joe like this.
  19. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    parasitic


    ADJECTIVE
    • 1(of an organism) living as a parasite.

      ‘mistletoe is parasitic on trees’
      1. 1.1 Resulting from infestation by a parasite.
        ‘mortality from parasitic diseases’
    • 2derogatory Habitually relying on or exploiting others.

      ‘attacks on the parasitic existence of Party functionaries’

    • 3Phonetics
      (of a speech sound) inserted without etymological justification (e.g. the b in thimble); epenthetic.


      During my time with Caterpillar. We used the trm parasitic loss often. It was a draw. Like an engine makeing a 100 horsepower. A hydraulid gear pump that pumps oil all the time, and pumps against a relife valve can eat close to 15% of that power. Whether you are using the hydraulics or not.

      Along came the load sensing piston pump. It only pumps oil when you use the hydraulics, saving energy, fuel, and money.
      And when you don't all the power goes to the wheels or other systems.



      A quick trip to my mail box presented me with a wonderful example of PLOI.
      My car insurance bill.

      If I pay the entire premium up front. The six month bill is $590.00.

      If I pay it in installmants. It is $680.00.

      I will write a check for $590.00 and stuff the other $90.00 in my pocket. Or more accurately, leave it in my account instead of just giving it to the insurance company.

      Same coverage, same terms, same duration. $90.00 cheaper.
     
  20. central joe

    central joe Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    7,824
    Likes Received:
    47,689
    Location:
    upstate south carolina
    OK, I'm catching on, and agree with you young fellar. joe
     
    Winterhorse and LostViking like this.
  21. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    ^^^Exactly^^^

    Another PLOI is buying bottled water. Especially at my Convenience Store.

    Yes I know, some people have bad water.
    But by and large, most people by bottle water at the Convenience (Expensive) Store because it's easy.

    Last I checked bottled water was ahead of beer or milk, and second only to soda in beverage consumption in the U.S.

    I don't even know what a bottle costs. I'm going to guess at around $1.50??

    $1.50 - 5 days a week, $7.50/week.

    That equates to $390.00 a year.
    We are approaching one free Sargent Edged Tool a year if we just fill our water bottle from our sink.
    Pretty cool if you think of it that way.
    SET=Cool
    Water=Water

    I live in the woods and am fortunate to have fantastic water. But even if your watwr is bad. You can still save a boatlow]ad of money by buying it in bulk. Or even buying individual bottles at cheaper stores.
     
  22. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Sorry Joe.

    I don't always present things in the most understanable way.
    The cobwebs and corridors of my mind can be a bit murky at times, even for me to navigate.

    I'm just trying to get folks to view their spending habits in a different light.
    The Nibiru cataclysm may come crashing down on us some day in the distant future.

    PLOI affects us today and everyday. If we are going to discuss preparedness. I think this deserves a good look. Because it affects us in so many ways.

    I live simple by choice. No cell phone, television. Which equates to no cell phone bill or cable bill. My choice, not for everyone.

    But why spend a $1.89 for a roll of toilet paper when the exact same roll, only with 100 more sheets, can be had for a dollar less?
     
  23. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    On a side note, my wife was mad that I didn't order a fuel pump from the local parts store and have it delivered the next morning (Friday) by 11 instead of getting it online for $70 cheaper and getting it Monday. We were supposed to go out of town for the weekend around 12-1 Friday. So basically I'd have to get the part, rush to get it in and hope that was the only fix that the car needed. I was able to get the fuel pump, pressure regulator/filter, air filter, coil and plugs for not much more than the price of the pump alone.
     
    central joe likes this.
  24. Gary V

    Gary V Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    1,634
    Location:
    Virginia
    Doesn't this PLOI go all the way back to prehistoric times when someone traded a piece of food for a bauble? Nearly all deals are less then fair to one of the parties. I don't see how that's then end of civilization but instead that's how civilization started.
     
  25. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    6,947
    Location:
    Casstown, Ohio
    As long as both parties agree to the deal and are free of coercion then the deal is fair for both parties. It only becomes less than fair for one party or the other when coercion comes in to play. PLOI comes in to play when outside sources not actually involved in the deal try to claim some part of the deal for themselves. ie .gov and taxes, union dues, association fees, etc.
     
  26. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    The union is optional at my job, but it's wise to be apart of it. The legal representation if needed makes it worth it. I had someone make a false claim against me and even though I had a ton of evidence to back my claim that they were the one at fault it was nice to have a rep sitting next to me. If things get really serious then an actual lawyer can be brought in. I personally know someone that the union lawyer saved them from prison time.
     
  27. Gary V

    Gary V Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    1,634
    Location:
    Virginia
    I don't agree with that because most of the time one of the parties makes a profit. (Profit: a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something)

    edit:
    I'm stating this for the purpose of comparing to the OPs definition of the PLOI. There is almost always a loss on one side of a deal.
     
    central joe likes this.
  28. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    6,604
    Likes Received:
    7,571
    Location:
    New England
    No offense... I like your premise and your points. People are way too extravagant. People with economics degrees making 3x what my family makes used to complain to me about how they were always broke. I got so tired of hearing it I stopped talking to them.

    It isn’t about what you take home, it’s about what you don’t spend. It’s about what you can live without. That’s the unfortunate situation half the country’s residents are in. If I made as much as what the other people I referred to made my house would be paid off in a few years and I’d be able to live life debt free 100%.
     
  29. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    I think you are mistaken. I owned a business. You need to make a profit to survive.

    It is not true at all that one side wins and the other side loses. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Take for example, going to a farm and buying a gallon of milk. You want the farmer to make a profit. Or else he will go out of business. He needs to make a profit or where is the motivation to go to work in the first place?

    There are many win/win situations. Like the farmer. You can't invest the time or the money to raise your own cow or cows. So you pay the farmer for milk, or beef. Win/win. Hopefully what ever you do nets you some profit. Mowing lawns, welding, being a doctor, or a carpenter. Whatever it is you need to make a profit too.

    This has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with being wise with how you spend your money. Like my car insurance example. Progressive insures my car. They want the premium. If I pay them in full, I save money. They are still happy, and I save $90.00 so I am happy too. Win/Win.

    In any transaction, no one has to be screwed. There is an exchange. Two parties exchange labor, money, or goods to acquire something they want or need. I may go cut a tree down for some guy who raises chickens. He gets his tree removed. I get free eggs for six months. Win/win.

    If this thread goes political or religious, I'll close it down myself.
    It has nothing to do with who is in office or God.
    It has to do with common sense money management.

    I hope some folks find it useful. Because, I am already wondering if it was a wise idea to post about it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
  30. Winterhorse

    Winterhorse Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    11,037
    Likes Received:
    38,375
    Location:
    Kansas
    I’m reading this and paying attention. I understand this is a discussion about economics.
    Please do go on.
     
  31. Gary V

    Gary V Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    1,634
    Location:
    Virginia
    That profit you are talking about is added to the costs of the items at the expense of the buyer. It's the same thing as your convenience store example except that the convenience store owner has a smaller business and has to charge more to make the same profit (compared to the likes of WalMart). Why is it different in your eyes when the convenience stores make their profits? This is what I meant when I said one of the parties almost always gets the short end of the deal. Go buy a used car and see how it works.
     
    central joe and Winterhorse like this.
  32. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks

    I'll use your example of the cavemen.

    Suppose instead of a bauble as you describe. Since I really have no idea what a bauble is.

    One man makes a spear for the hunter. And in exchange the hunter gives the spear maker some meat. The spear maker makes a profit, because he made more spears. The hunter made a profit, because he got to keep some meat. Win/Win.

    Buying a used car is no different. You need a car. Someone has one to sell. Do your homework and make an honest offer. They don't have to take it, and you don't have to buy for the listed price.

    I always buy used cars. I see them as a better value than buying a new one. Why pay 20 or 30K only to drive it off the lot and have it immediatly lose 30% of its value? I let other folks take that initial depreciation hit.

    I assume, you are talking about used car dealers? What about buying from an individual?

    What do you do? Do you make a profit? Or do you work for nothing?

    This is not about profit. It is about helping folks save some money when and if they can.

    I buy locally and from small folks as often as I can. I will even pay a bit more to support local folks. Because the money stays in my community. I see that as a plus.
     
  33. Akela

    Akela Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    406
    Likes Received:
    210
    LostViking,

    Good thread!

    Question... would you consider planned obsolescence (or built-in obsolescence in industrial design and economics) to be free of coercion, or not?
    At the moment, I'm kind of thinking about how support for various software versions and apps is halted, and then your choice is to either pay to play, or try to work with an increasingly useless electronic gadget. ;)
     
  34. Seacapt.

    Seacapt. Bushmaster

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    7,037
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Location:
    Maine
    Basically live within your means and purchase only what you NEED not WANT along with paying yourself 10% of your "means" first every pay day and invest it then you can retire at 45 or 50 instead of 65 or 70. If you aren't doing this already then DOWN SIZE in all aspects of your life,, sound impossible? then just remember the Joneses your trying to keep up with next door don't really give a shit one way or the other about you or your life style.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  35. NJStricker

    NJStricker Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    4,261
    Location:
    Ohio
    Credit = convenience = expensive

    Credit card companies, payday loans, buy here pay here car lots, 3 years same as cash—they’re all designed to take your money.

    I agree with Lost Viking. The US has gone beyond the era of entrepreneurship and family business, for the most part. It’s now corporate suck. Big conglomerates that feed off the population.

    It’s not the folks that make $300K and have $20K at the end of the year that are the problem. It’s the ones making 50K but have a $150K lifestyle. They are convinced they are “winning” because they spend someone else’s money. There is no incentive to ever pay the balance down, because they’ve been programmed to understand that it’s not about what you owe, it’s about whether you can make the minimum monthly payments.

    And that’s what a parasite wants.

    A predator makes a kill. It grabs its prey, kills it, gorges itself, then goes through some lean times until the next kill.

    Not the parasite. It doesn’t want to kill. It wants to suck the resources out of its host for as long as possible. It wants its host to be relatively comfortable so that the parasite goes unnoticed. It wants its host to make that monthly minimum payment for the new truck, the quieter washer and dryer, the wider television, that vacation in Maui.

    Because once they feed on that and your monthly income goes to the parasites, you have no choice but to finance the kids’ braces, the pet’s surgery, the new roof, the nursing home for the aging parents.
     
    funkja, Gumbi, sea6ear and 6 others like this.
  36. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    ^^^^This^^^^

    And so eloquently stated.


    I was in town the other day.
    One guys said his washing machine was broken. He had a tech come. The tech told him it was the pump. $170.00 for the pump and a $106.00 for the service call. I stated that my last washing machine only cost $189.00.

    He said his wife would never go for that.
    I said my clothes can't tell if they are washed by a cheap machine or an expensive one.
    They're just clean.

    They are buying a new machine.
    He got a refund on the pump. But a circuit board was the problem. No longer made. Dead dog. $106.00 service call stood.

    The new machine is omewhere just south of one thousand dollars. He wasn't exactly sure.
    But he justified the cost saying his wife will be able to turn it on and set it to the desired cycle with her cell phone while she is at work.

    I asked if it could load the clothes itself?
    Puzzled, he said no!

    I said then why doesn't she just set it and turn it on when she loads the clothes.
    He said, You don't understand.
    I said, you're right, I don't.

    Buy it's your life. Lead it the way you choose.

    It is a Samsung washer. It needs an internet connection!

    I am the first to admit, I am a Neanderthal. And call me a Luddite if need be.
    But I just don't need my washing machine talking to people on the internet.
     
  37. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks

    @Akela

    Excellent question!

    Answer = I'm not sure.

    Technology comes at a price. The newest and fastest will always cost more. R&D isn't cheap.

    I have seen this my entire life. I can remember back in the late/mid sixties. I'm going to say '67. My uncle who owned a heating and air conditioning business. Showed us a calculator he had just bought. It cost a whopping $360.00. A sizeable chunk of change in 1967.

    Especially given the fact that all it did was add, subtract, multiply, and divide. It had a digital readout too. Ground breaking at the time. And equally expensive.

    I'm typing on an Ipad Pro. In the corner of my living room is my old Ipad. I ordered it when they first came out. It was cool and I actually used it for work. It still works fine. I just cant use it anymore. Because, as you say. It is outdated. Obsolescence was built it. Or at least the support stopped. The whole industry moved past what was a cutting edge tool.

    My current Pro was also purchased for work. So I could justify the cost. Because it helped me make money. Currently I am not working. I would not have bought this if I wasn't working.

    The key word I took from your post is "Choice" choosing to work with outdated technology or pay to play. Depending on what you do for work? You may indeed need to update.

    In reality, this is nothing new. There are very few horses on the highways these days. The were replaced by Model Ts. Not even many Model Ts, they were upgraded too. My last company truck talked to my cell phone and my Ipad.

    I could say, find Customer X. And my truck would do it's thing. Locating MR. X's cell phone and give me directions to his job site. Very cool.

    I'm not against technology. Although I am cautious of it.

    In your situation, I might suggest splitting the difference. Your old hardware may be outdated, and in need of an upgrade.

    But how deep you dive into the pool is up to you. 2 year old technology, which is still relevant, is available at greatly reduced prices as compared to tech that was just released in the last few months.

    Companies need to stay in business. Inovation makes that happen. Black powder and firearms really raised the devil with the spear and arrow business. It happens, always has.

    Here is where your coercion question and @NJStricker 's post crash headlong, right into each other. You could most likely get along fine with 2 or 3 year old technology. And heaven forbid I use the refurbished term. And save a metric ton of money doing so.

    But these companies conspire to make you feel less pain. The will spread your expensive purchase of the newest kit out over time. You may even get the first 90 days interest free.

    That 90 Day interest free period. Is just like the anesthetic a tick uses. The tick numbs the point of entry so the host doesn't feel it. While it bores its hole into your blood stream. It's not until long after it's in that you notice what happend.

    If you need the best, and it makes you money, buy it today.
    If you can get by with less do so, and pocket the extra money.

    Where I get all weirded out is.
    How many 5th graders really need the newest model IPhone or Galaxy ? Pick your poison.

    There may actually be a few. But for the most part not many. But it's easy to just add the cost to the Plan.

    The "Plan" as it's called, is to seperate you from your money.

    As rough as kids are on phones. I'd be stepping back at least two generations and buying refurbished phones which are offered with the same warranty as new ones.

    As far as your direct question. Companies can't support their early offerings forever. Or they will be out of business. Plus the increasing demand by consumers drives that bus. Everything today is video. The amount of data transferred goes way beyond a 486.

    Think of it as a house builder. You are a contractor. You build a house. A year later, the new owner calls and says hey, my roof is leaking. You go fix it for free, no brainer.

    But 8 years from now when he calls and says, hey, my carpet is worn out. You don't go fix that for free. That carpet doesn't get rewoven, it gets tossed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
    sea6ear, Akela, Keyser Söze and 3 others like this.
  38. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    I didn't even do that for my kids. They got track phones for abut $30. I'm glad we didn't get them fancy phones too. The youngest took hers to the beach to listen to music and take pictures by the jettie. She had it sitting in her bag which she brought close to the jettie and of course the tide came in. The oldest had his fall out of his pocket a couple days ago while dressing out for ROTC and realized it a few minutes later, but it was already gone. They know that they aren't just going to be replaced, especially the one that wasn't thinking by bringing it by the water. Life lessons start early.
     
  39. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Usual Suspecto Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    16,355
    Likes Received:
    18,821
    Location:
    Narnia
    @LostViking
    you mean you don't need a refrigerator that has a huge touch screen on it that shows what you got in the fridge without opening it ???
    like a see through window

    and when the screen goes out you can't regulate the temperature anymore and you need it serviced for $500-800
     
  40. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    ^^
    ^^*Exactly^^^

    Call me old fashion. But I don't want or need to hire an IT Consultant to run my Fridge.

    And I don't want it connected to the internet either. Call me a traditionalist. But when I want to see what's in there. I'll open the door and look.

    I also don't want one that scans bar codes, as many of the newer ones are starting to do.

    George Orwell never deamed of this.
    You go to the mail box.
    In there is a rate increase from your health insurance company.

    On page 741, of the bill, it says reason for premium increase.
    Bad Eating Habits
    Poor Lifestyle Choices

    It says see attached print out.

    Your fridge tattled on you.
    It appears you purchase 3 times more than the allowed national average of Bacon, Beer, and Eggs.
    You have beeen charged accordingly.

    Sam really did sing!
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  41. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    That's why you raise your own pork, brew your own beer and raise chickens. You'll get bonus points for being free range and hormone free.
     
  42. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    If you have the room and the resources. 100% agree. Or like we do split it with someone else. Better meat, cheaper, you know its name, and where it's been.



    This can be as complicated or as simple as folks like to make it.

    One of the most simplest examples I can think of.
    Is turning a light out when you're not in the room.

    That stops PLOI.

    No need to give the eletric company extra money because you had a light on in the basement all month.

    These little things are everywhere. And they add up.

    I used to go get my hair cut at a barber or some pretty girl in town (when I was younger). As I aged, I defauled to the old style barber, because I didn't need an appointment.

    I've been back to a crew cut for the last 10 hears or so, because it's easy.
    My barber, as close to Flyod from Mayberry as you will ever get. Charged $8.00.

    I always gave him $10.00. (My wife says I tip too much, but that's another thread)

    Roughly 3 years ago.
    Everytime I needed to get a hair cut. He was on vacation. I don't begrudge the man his time off. He has literally been cutting hair longer than I have been alive, and I'm in my late 50s.

    So in a pinch and needing to look trimed up for work. I shot to Mount Pilot and grabbed a $24.00 pair of clippers.

    Since I was spending $10.00 roughly every 5 weeks. ($2.00/week) I had my money back in less than 4 months. I haven't paid for a haircut since.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  43. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    My wife went to a good hair school and now works at a higher end salon in the closet big city. I'll gripe at her about needing a hair at times because after work she doesn't feel like doing any more hair for the day and our work schedules make it hard to have a lot of down time together. Her response is to schedule an appointment with her at work. I told her there's no way I'm going to $25 for a cut when I can get it at home for free. I may have to wait longer than I prefer, but I haven't paid for a haircut in years.
     
  44. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    Too Funny!!

    For me it was everytime I made an appointment, some crisis popped up somewhere else that I had to deal with. I hated canceling, because that isn't fair to the cutter.

    That's like me.
    My crew cut doesn't take a lot of talent. #2 guard and turn it on. When hair stops falling off you're done!
     
  45. LostViking

    LostViking Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,552
    Likes Received:
    13,936
    Location:
    Northern Adirondacks
    No Politics!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018 at 7:13 AM
    Gii shi kan dug and jayclimber like this.
  46. Guy

    Guy Founder Staff Member Administrator Vendor

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    16,962
    Likes Received:
    4,392
    Location:
    Georgia
    Political rants removed.
     
  47. riokid87

    riokid87 Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2018
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    912
    And when that man spends 280k it goes back into the economy. Even if he wasted it on yet another hugh tv or titanium bushcraft cook set, whoever made, sold, those products, got a payday as too did the folks who provided the raw materials to make them along with dozens or hundreds of folks who touched that stuff making its way to him.
     
    WY_Not likes this.
  48. WY_Not

    WY_Not Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    6,947
    Location:
    Casstown, Ohio
    Exactly. I like it when rich people buy more stuff.

    That guy buying his 7th vacation home? Oh the horrors! :rolleyes: Someone has to build it. Someone has to make and supply the furnishings. Someone has to provide maintenance and staff.

    That guy is buying another yacht? Oh the horrors! :rolleyes: Someone has to build it. Someone has to make and supply the furnishings. Someone has to provide maintenance and crew/staff.

    That guy is buying another limo? Oh the horrors! :rolleyes: Someone has to build it. Someone has to provide maintenance and drive it.
     
  49. Usingmyrights

    Usingmyrights Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6,829
    Likes Received:
    11,678
    I'm not arguing that part. My argument is that when he says he's struggling to make ends meet, can't afford his car payment on his 3rd brand new, fancy vehicle, etc that I don't feel as bad for him because he could have adjust his unnecessary spending downwards. On the flip side, the guy at the bottom end of the scale may have to work OT and save up to get that ESEE or other similarly priced knife after he makes sure that all of his bills are paid, even though he is struggling to get by.
     
  50. Vanitas

    Vanitas Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    6,604
    Likes Received:
    7,571
    Location:
    New England
    But it doesn’t, only a portion does. I remember reading a Forbes article a couple years back. It stated that the top 1% took 85% of the economic growth home with them after the recession. Leaving 15% for the other 99% to claw after. Basically 85% of all profits ended up in the hands of 1% of the population. I don’t know any economists who would say that is a good thing for the economy.
     

Share This Page