Teenage girl in Missouri mistook an elk for a large white tail.

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Gathering' started by freebirdfb, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro
    Not too long ago Missouri reintroduced a herd of elk in southern Missouri. This elk was not tagged and possibly not from the Missouri herd. This took place 200 miles from the Missouri herds location.

    Just an FYI in Jackson County Missouri there an animal preserve that has elk and buffalo. The first resident of this preserve was an elk from Montana, which had been tagged, and ended up in Independence MO while following the Missouri river.

    http://krcgtv.com/news/local/14-year-old-missouri-girl-shoots-elk-200-miles-from-herd
     
    isme, Dukejb, actichy and 7 others like this.
  2. Carbonmated

    Carbonmated Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Location:
    Florida gulf coast
    I am of the opinion that the father should be fined for that kill. Ultimately he is responsible for a minor child hunting with him. He should have glassed that animal before she shot.
     
  3. Dadio

    Dadio Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,550
    Likes Received:
    1,980
    Location:
    Missouri
    Just for some local geography: the one the girl shot this year, and the one shot in Cooper county last year, are in counties that border the Missouri as well but over 100 miles further east from Jackson county.
     
  4. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    There was quite a fight here about whether they should be introduced at all. The MDC overruled a lot of the local concerns. The MDC should keep track their animals and be responsible for them, there is a lot of difference between hitting a deer and a elk with your vehicle. Elk aren't something you expect to see in Missouri. If it is from a elk farm then the owners need to be held responsible. Sorry, unless you are over 150 years old you haven't seen an native elk in Missouri. My land isn't MDC's pasture land for their new toys, I already have to deal with their brilliant ideas like multi flora rose, servicia lespedeza and all of their other screw ups.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    IA Woodsman, dub, WY_Not and 9 others like this.
  5. DarrylM

    DarrylM Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,107
    Likes Received:
    8,188
    Location:
    NE Washington State
    I hope that meat doesn't go to waste. I also hope for leniency from the state of Missouri. I wouldn't even judge the dad too harshly for not I.D.ing correctly if the closest he's ever been to an elk is Field and Stream.
     
    Nonc-Tobe, Broke, RickS and 2 others like this.
  6. Terasec

    Terasec Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    2,438
    Location:
    NYC
    I dont know mo youth regs
    In most statea youth must be supervised by an adult(mentor)
    That supervision usualy means arms length
    If dad was off doing his own hunt then he wasnt supervising as it stated she had to call for her dad after the kill
    As i said dont know mo law but this would be illegal in most states with mentored youth hunts
     
    Coryphene, Wolfcri and freebirdfb like this.
  7. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro
    This took place on opening day of regular gun season. The managed youth hunts have already taken place.
     
    Coryphene, Broke and RickS like this.
  8. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro
    If my memory serves correctly the idea of reintroducing the elk came up multiple times before they went through it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    Coryphene and Broke like this.
  9. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    That's the way I remember it too, they like to give the illusion of public input. I know some people in the introduction area that were really against it. It's hard enough making a living on this poor land down here, you end up feeding all the deer, coons, hogs and everything else. Then they want to add another big animal to the mix, the MDC collects the fees, the landowners feed the animals and repair the fences. I worked for a 14,000 acre ranch that has a border with government land. Just try to get them to help maintain fences or put in money to do it. They like to get more land and build big buildings, maintainence isn't in the budget.
     
  10. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    14,948
    Location:
    Blue Springs, mo
    I have heard talk of Missouri adding an elk hunting season, most likely be a lottery type deal for managed hunts, limited tags or certain animals. Be nice to have a large game animal to hunt locally, but, I am also not a land holder and having to deal with the destruction.
    Here is as close as I have been to an elk in Missouri, dont think I will be mistaking it for a deer anytime soon.

    2017-11-01 15.44.11.jpg
     
    Nonc-Tobe, freebirdfb and Carbonmated like this.
  11. tcshooter

    tcshooter Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    1,231
    Location:
    North St. Louis County, MO
    Hold on there buckaroo... y'all need to calm down here. We are talking about a little girl here, not a seasoned hunter. There are grown men who see a deer at Dawn and blast away only to find out 20 minutes later that they shot the farmer's favorite milk cow or mule. It happens. And if the state decides to go for a fine it is a miscarriage of justice because there is no season - so unless there is a specific rule stating you cannot shoot a non-game animal...well....she's in the clear as far as that goes. Most states that I have hunted in operate that way. If there is not a season listed for them you can kill them any time you wish for food, or depredation...or whatever the reason, kinda like wild hogs.

    I had my kids hunting with me at 9. Sitting right beside me. At 10, I had them on their own sitting within yelling distance of me. That was my choice and my kids. This is his daughter and his call. She can obviously handle her weapon and properly hit what she's aiming at. So safety isn't the key factor here. I would bet she's rarely seen elk on TV let alone in person. There are some pretty wild looking racks out there and she was obviously very excited on opening day. So let's leave her alone and stop the criticisms of her and her father, please. We are not here to judge but to observe and learn.
     
  12. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    14,948
    Location:
    Blue Springs, mo
    Indeed.
     
  13. Carbonmated

    Carbonmated Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Location:
    Florida gulf coast
    First off, I am a grown man, an adult so take your buckaroo BS to someone else please. I need that condescending horsesh%t like a hole in the head. So you are of the opinion that children can run around the forest with loaded weapons just shooting what ever is in the scope as the new normal and acceptable because they only saw it on TV??? Are you kidding me?? I stand by my original post just as you are entitled to your view. I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, the father in this story should have been watching his kid to make sure she did not kill another hunter, luckily it was only a worthless, out of season Elk, you know the kind they only show on television..... :rolleyes:
     
  14. Coryphene

    Coryphene Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    6,868
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I have seen the elk herd they introduced in Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The bull is pretty majestic. The cows are VERY different looking than any whitetail. No way would a normal hunter mistake the 2. The father should have been there no matter if it was a youth hunt day or not. Youth hunt applies to the age of the hunter, not just the special hunting days.

    It is the responsibility of every hunter to ID their target before pulling the trigger no matter what age. There is a 2 full page article detailing the differences between a red wolf and coyote in the state regulations digest.

    The big bull who likes to graze by the GSMNP visitor center by Cherokee, NC. Everyone was using their iPhones to try to get a log distance photo. I brought my real camera. He would never NOT show me his butt no matter where I walked to to get a different angle. He is very proud of his majestic hams.
    IMG_2134.JPG
     
  15. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro
    Broke nice pic. I'll add a pic for you. This is of the previous bull when I work for the Natural Resources. Those Elk gets fed grain three times a week. During the rut they challange the truck and can do some damage to it, like shove an antler through the radiator.
    0626130923-00.jpg
     
    Broke likes this.
  16. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro
    Now, I wonder what caliber she was using. It wouldn't surprise me if it was either a 30-30 or 243.
     
    Nonc-Tobe and Broke like this.
  17. dads2vette

    dads2vette Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Location:
    Ash Fork, AZ
    If you can't figure out your shooting what you should be shooting, you shouldn't be shooting. That's how people get shot, forget about the prize dairy cow. It was irresponsible of the father and the 14 year old. If she's old enough to shoot a gun she's sure as heck old enough to take responsibility for the outcome. Fining is probably not the answer, community service at the preserve or something like that.
     
    Park Swan, Coryphene and freebirdfb like this.
  18. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    In rural Missouri kids take off from school for the opening of deer season, Things are probably a little different here. A lot of people put deer in the freezer for their food for the winter. It is a pretty poor place and deer season is a holiday. Fining a man because his daughter shot an elk that shouldn't have been there probably wouldn't go over well here in the country, might happen in some big city. I dont really know, I try to stay out of those places.
     
    Mike Kreger, hamanky, gdwigg and 4 others like this.
  19. Coryphene

    Coryphene Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    6,868
    Location:
    Chapel Hill, NC
    I strongly disagree. The age of the child is what makes it the parents' responsibility. You are responsible for your children ESPECIALLY when firearms are involved. As for hunting out of season, that is a bad argument. If it is deer season, you can kill deer(and any other animal also in season), not deer and anything else you see as long as it doesn't have its own season. If dove season ends, you can't just go around shooting woodpeckers and chickadees. Here there are animals encouraged to hunt as they have no closed season such as yotes, crows, and feral hogs. Kill them as you wish. Hunter mistakenly shoots a farmer's favorite cow, the farmer can go after the hunter for damages just as if you shoot any other personal property. I would bet that those few elk are protected meaning no hunting elk period unless by special permit. As for those few who shoot at anything that moves, they have no business being in the woods with a firearm. It is unsafe for anyone/anything near them. I only want responsible hunters who follow the rules hunting in the same woods I do. The rules are to keep everyone safe.

    It is the responsibility of every hunter to properly ID their target. It is the responsibility of a parent teaching their children to hunt about this as well. This keeps hunting safe and enjoyable for everyone involved. Let us use this as a lesson in improper minor supervision.
     
  20. x39

    x39 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    You can't be serious. A "little girl" as you call her, or any child should be under the direct supervision of an adult, and in fact I googled the Missouri game laws and it says just that. Her father as the supervising adult is responsible for any hunting infraction on her part. Further, the "it happens" excuse is totally unacceptable. Target identification is non-negotiable. We just had our first hunting fatality in four years here in Maine (due to improper target identification), and as a long time hunter safety instructor I take that very seriously.
     
  21. tcshooter

    tcshooter Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    1,231
    Location:
    North St. Louis County, MO
    OK...now you can calm your hyper sensitivity down a notch there...geeze!! I was not being condescending but since you immediately went to hyper velocity rude commentary and cussing at me then I will assume that a civil discourse with you is impossible and we can stop right here. Now you can go back to dancing in your tu-tu and watching Barbie cartoons or whatever it is you over-triggered sensitive types do in your mama's basement by yourself.

    And for the rest of you...I never said that children should be allowed to run around all willy nilly shooting whatever they want - I simply made a comment that grown adults misidentify goats...cows...and such and do it every year with regularity. She is 14...she was excited - she saw huge antlers. That is all I was saying...nothing more. The human mind can make some incredible images seem real to you....until someone shows up and shows you what it really was and you feel stupid...but I'm sure that's never happened to anyone else...right?

    You guys sure can read a whole lot of negativity into a simple statement of fact. I raised 4 kids to hunt - never killed anything they were not supposed to. Kept them in hand, then in sight, then in yelling range then out on their own as they matured and progressed. They grew up knowing better than to do stupid stuff in the woods with a loaded weapon. When they were little I took them to the range and old timers would always comment how my kids were probably the safest ones at the range. I too take target ID seriously - but as I said - it happens - and that is not making light of it - just a statement of fact, that's all.

    And for the record...I spent a very long weekend one year while attending Purdue University at a buddy's dad's farm spray painting huge fluorescent orange COW on each side of his beef cattle so they would hopefully not get shot by the city boys coming out to hunt deer. Apparently up in NE Indiana (west/southwest of Ft. Wayne) they lost a few cattle every year to city folks with a gun who had never actually seen, let alone heard a deer in the woods....so, in my experience, yes, it happens. But never seen or heard of anyone shot or shot at, just heard of a goat, a couple cows and one mule I know of being shot in over 20 years of my hunting life.
     
  22. freebirdfb

    freebirdfb Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,969
    Likes Received:
    4,298
    Location:
    KC Metro

    Making lite of these two posts...... Tom Lehrer The hunting song.

     
    Dukejb, WY_Not, vdeal and 3 others like this.
  23. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    I will take an elk killed by a young girl by mistake in Missouri anytime over the nonsensical stuff they do in other places. We were in Lake Tahoe last year and I think they would rather you and your family were killed by a bear than for you to hurt one attacking you or breaking in to your house. In Oregon you can get in trouble for building a pond on your own property. There are tons of examples like that. I think we give too much power to the conservation and every other depts about what we can do on our property. Around here the fun thing for them now is the feral hogs. They fly over my friends place with helicopters and sniper rifles, spending tons of money's to kill the hogs. I can tell you, all you need to do is put a good bounty on the hogs and the boys around here would have them cleaned out in no time. I would bet that every critter that has been wiped out of an area was done that way, with hunters with dogs and trappers, it sure wasn't done with conservation officers and helicopters!
     
    Nonc-Tobe, gdwigg, freebirdfb and 2 others like this.
  24. Hoof

    Hoof Former Genius Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    Messages:
    3,512
    Likes Received:
    17,404
    Location:
    South Louisiana
    YOU are responsible for any damage you do to property that does not belong to you. It doesn't matter if you are driving a car or shooting a firearm. If you aren't capable of controlling the situation you will face the consequences.
     
    Terasec and freebirdfb like this.
  25. TheGeoSquirrel

    TheGeoSquirrel Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    1,893
    Location:
    S.E. N.M.
    Guys, it has not been determined she did anything wrong. If there is no season on elk there and is not yet classed as a game animal and the elk she shot was not even supposed to be there then that elk is no different then a ferral hog.
    Years ago when I was in college I was working a game and fish check station. A hunter came thru with his deer. He said look at the whitetail I shot. One look at the deer and you could tell it was not a whitetail and it was not a mule deer. He had shot a european fallow deer. It was one of a few that remained from an experiment game and fish had done years before. It was not classed as a game animal and there was no season on them as they were not supposed to even be there anymore. The long and short of it is the guy dident have to tag it, got a free deer and could have gone back out and shot a mule deer for which he had a lic. for to begin with.
    Yes dad as a responsible hunter and parent should have been watching his daughter closer but in the long run she dident break the law and should be able to claim the elk just like a hog hunter can take any hog he shoots.
     
    hamanky, geologist2, fire65 and 6 others like this.
  26. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    She didn't shoot a "hunter", or a horse, or anything dissimilar to a deer, she shot an elk which at a distance, especially if you haven't seen any/many, can look similar to a deer.
     
    Mike Kreger, Bridge, hamanky and 8 others like this.
  27. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    As to the reintroduction, I don't think they should be fenced, we don't fence ours. They've worked out great here.

    They wouldn't have needed to be reintroduced if they hadn't been hunted to extinction to begin with. I never feel like we have more rights to the land than the animals.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
    Mike Kreger, hamanky and freebirdfb like this.
  28. Broke

    Broke Back yard bushcrafter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    14,948
    Location:
    Blue Springs, mo
    That particular elks rack looked to me to be a rather large buck, considering some of the mutant 30+ pointers that have been shot I could easily see making that mistake, especially for a young hunter or really anyone that is unaware there is an elk in the area. Now an bull like the one I posted is an order of magnitude larger and you would have to be a bit out of it to confuse it.
     
  29. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Yeah there have been people that shoot a button buck with only a doe tag or take buck "doe only" as well. If I thought this was intentional or malicious I might think differently.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  30. GreyOne

    GreyOne Elder Lifetime Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    40,668
    Likes Received:
    7,043
    Location:
    Texas
    Just want to mention, much depends on age, but once a young hunter completes the mandatory Hunter Safety course, the "immediate supervision" rule is dropped.
     
  31. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Location:
    ATL
    who says they were hunting together. at 14 she should have been able to hunt by herself. at that age, I can easily see her mistaking an elk for a "big" deer. particularly if she's never seen one in the wild before...
     
  32. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Location:
    ATL
    oh for crying out loud what a bunch of horseshit...

    at 14 years old I was driving a farm truck, operating tractors and machinery, I hunted small game by myself and with friends, and I was posting adult watchers at stands on deer drives. I carried my own gun and my dad was hunting with us but not necessarily within direct sight. just what do you think is so vulnerable about this 14yr old that her dad had to be there holding her hand?..

    this makes me wonder if you have ever hunted. from the picture included with the article it could easily have been mistaken in the woods by anyone to be a big deer. this is not a native species. this thing was artificially planted hundreds of miles from its natural range and 200 miles from its release site - you think there was warnings or alerts or any local awareness that there were elk locally? I bet there weren't...

    my friend owns a hunting ranch in MO and has taken some monstrous whitetail. these are not his photos but he has some like these

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    the elk she shot. not a stretch of the imagination...

    [​IMG]


    her dad, when he identified what happened, reported it to the proper wildlife people. she didn't shoot a cow, she didn't shoot a person, she made an accurate, ethical killing shot on what she mistook to be a large game animal. the only thing she got wrong was the genus, not the species. I've seen adults do worse, much worse...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
    2jka, Ollieman, tcshooter and 16 others like this.
  33. x39

    x39 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    8,258
    Location:
    Beneath the wolf pine
    That varies from state to state.
     
    freebirdfb likes this.
  34. dads2vette

    dads2vette Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Location:
    Ash Fork, AZ

    Because you don't understand my statement doesn't make it horseshit. I'm sure everyone you know is very proud of your accomplishments as a minor, you seem to be. I was stating that this 14 year old erred. The parent should take some responsibility because that's what good, responsible parents do when a minor makes an error, they show that minor that when you make a mistake you take responsibility. I'm also very happy that you can, I think, tell the difference between a big white tail and an elk. If you're suggesting it may be difficult to tell the difference because of rack size you may need to learn how to ID them by other identifiers.
     
    Broke, freebirdfb and ra2bach like this.
  35. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    He did take responsibility, he reported it.
     
    2jka, Mike Kreger, Ollieman and 9 others like this.
  36. Terasec

    Terasec Scout

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Messages:
    835
    Likes Received:
    2,438
    Location:
    NYC
    Thats required by law
    Thats not taking responsibility
    Thats just following the law
     
    Carbonmated and freebirdfb like this.
  37. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Which is taking responsibility. I'd imagine he also had a talk with his daughter about it.

    When was the last time you called the cops and said, "hey, I was going over the speed limit by mistake and I demand you fine me five hundred bucks and a defensive driving course and take away my car and driving privileges so I'll learn my lesson?"

    You know what people that don't take responsibility do? They leave it lying there, or cover it up, or stick it in their freezer and laugh or brag about it later.
    He reported it to the authorities and they decided the best course of action, and apparently felt they were responsible enough to do the right thing by calling and had learned their lesson.
     
    2jka, hamanky, Broke and 4 others like this.
  38. dads2vette

    dads2vette Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Location:
    Ash Fork, AZ
    If you look at this story you can see that this young girl and, because of his responsibility, her father made a mistake. However, this story brings to the forefront a much more serious problem of hunters mis-identifying their targets or taking reckless shots. Luckily, this was just a mistake but we have all read or seen incidents of hunters, cars, houses, cows getting shot. That's the problem that should be discussed maybe not the minutia of this one story. Let's also remember that this was a story on the news and in print...sometimes they don't get all the facts.
     
    freebirdfb likes this.
  39. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,915
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Location:
    Southern MA.
    You can worry the what if's all day long, the evidence presented shows that it was clearly a mistake in identification by an inexperienced young hunter who was on her own to make the decision, in a place where Elk are not usually found.
    It wasn't a case of being negligent, or of intent to break any civil or game law, and it certainly wasn't poaching for profit, and the girls father took the appropriate measures after the fact to contact the authorities, so he didn't make any attempt to cover it up.
    I'm a retired State hunter safety instructor and retired LE officer, in my state children 12 yrs. old are allowed to hunt under strict adult supervision, before the mandated hunter safety course regulations a young person could hunt alone after one season of supervised hunting and reaching their 15th. birthday, today I believe that is still the case and having passed a state managed hunter safety course is required to obtain a license, unless I hear different I'll assume that both the young hunter and her father were hunting within the law.
    In law, part of the elements of judging someone's guilt or innocents usually includes intent, it's my opinion looking at the few facts presented here that she was not acting reckless, wasn't negligent, and didn't have any intent to break the law.
    Again, in my opinion, society, the law, and certainly the young girl would be better served if everyone concerned chalked the incident up to an accident resulting in a hard earned lesson.
    A lesson also that the state should take advantage of by including better game identification in their Hunter Safety courses, especially if they are going to be introducing new game species within their states borders.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
    2jka, blind & lost, hamanky and 10 others like this.
  40. 1773

    1773 Guide

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    876
    I agree the young hunter misidentified her target but lets look at this in perspective, it was a small bull elk, in a area where there were supposed to be no elk, I don't thing she failed to identify her target, I think she just didn't realize her target wasn't a whitetail deer, and in all honest once she identified it as a deer (remember elk are deer) she probably thought nothing else about it. I can really see how it happened and really don't think it is a big deal, it a a far cry for mistaking an elk for a deer in an area where there are not supposed to be elk from shooting a goat, a cow, a mule or a horse or certainly another hunter.

    A few years ago, a turkey hunter at the area where I work, shot 3 hunters sitting next to a truck because one of them was drinking a Pepsi and he say the red white and blue and assumed it was a gobbler. I know of a hunter mistaking an elk for a deer standing in an open field in an elk restoration area so he was full well aware of elk being in the area. I routinely see people shoot at "game" from a vehicle and then ask for a break when they find out it is a decoy. I worked an incident a couple years ago where a hunter shot a deer in a mans yard, shot through the side of the house and almost struck the man cooking his supper. I say all this to put my comment about the hunters error in perspective.
     
    hamanky, Broke, Gumbi and 3 others like this.
  41. RickS

    RickS Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Location:
    SW Missouri
    Very nicely put Moe M!
     
    Broke, Nonc-Tobe and Moe M. like this.
  42. vdeal

    vdeal Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    573
    Location:
    WV
    WV has a specific section in the hunting regs stating that certain species have no open season ever, including elk, which were just reintroduced.

    BTW, the Tom Lehrer video is the best part of this thread.
     
    Broke and freebirdfb like this.
  43. pfluggy

    pfluggy Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    104
    Guess I don’t care if animal is introduced or is there naturally. Person pulling trigger should know what they’re pulling trigger on or you don’t pull it. Just like the little kid who brought 10 pound walleye in to bait store to be weighed one month before season opened part of being a sportsman is being responsible. Responsible parent responsible fisherman hunter etc. yes dad should have been responsible for actions that happened. I still remember when deer season somebody shot and old lady Crossing Road to get her mail. No difference in my eyes if you don’t know what you’re pulling the trigger on you don’t pull it
     
    Carbonmated, freebirdfb and Terasec like this.
  44. weltondl

    weltondl Sergeant of Marines Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    5,201
    Location:
    North coast of ohio
    My nephew has an elk ranch here in Ohio. He has to hang cloth screens on the fences so people who are trespassing on his property don't shoot his elk thinking they are deer. Totally different situation, I could understand how an inexperienced hunter could mistake a calf or a cow as a whitetail, but a bull? There's no mistaking the sheer mass of a bull elk as a deer in my opinion. Younger hunters need supervision for a reason. Chalk it up as an unfortunate mistake. A learning experience. At least a person was not mistaken for a deer and killed.
     
    2jka, freebirdfb and Nonc-Tobe like this.
  45. trust_no_one

    trust_no_one Tracker

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Messages:
    184
    Likes Received:
    437
    Unfortunate but a valid reason for hunters education. Steps should be taken to educate her and retain her as a hunter. The dad though needs some to teach a public awareness class that borders on shaming. I'm thinking standing near a elk statue and informing everyone that it is in fact not a whitetail. The hours of this are dependent upon score of the animal
     
    weltondl, freebirdfb and pfluggy like this.
  46. Nonc-Tobe

    Nonc-Tobe I call it a black pot Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    664
    Likes Received:
    3,157
    Location:
    Cajun Country
    ^^^Exactly^^^
     
    weltondl, Broke and freebirdfb like this.
  47. ra2bach

    ra2bach Supporter Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,191
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Location:
    ATL
    shoot or no shoot - which one(s) of these are a whitetail deer?..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    weltondl, Broke, freebirdfb and 6 others like this.
  48. sons of scotland

    sons of scotland Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    898
    Location:
    Hocking Hills, Ohio


    not the horse of course.:4::D
     
  49. Moe M.

    Moe M. Supporter Supporter Bushcraft Friend

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,915
    Likes Received:
    2,087
    Location:
    Southern MA.
    This is a story that really has little to do with the spirit of this thread, but funny just the same.
    My Dad was never a shooter or a hunter, he did like the outdoors and he fished local ponds and did some shell fishing in the bay not far from our home, other than that he was a workaholic, when he was in his late forties he became very sick, luckily we lived in New England, known for it's excellent medical doctors and facilities, it took a while but he recovered.
    When he had fully recovered he had an epiphany of sorts, he traded in his long work hours in for time with his family, and he took up hunting mostly to spend more time with me.
    His "breaking in" period is a whole 'nother story, but a few years and a few deer later we found ourselves in a hunting camp with a half a dozen friends in a very rural part of northern Maine, we arrived and got settled in on Sat, went out looking for deer sign on Sunday and collected a bit more firewood.
    Monday morning Dad was the first one up just before the sky began to lighten up. he made the coffee, made a quick sandwich out of the remains of last nights supper, when I opened my eyes Dad was dressed in his woolen hunting clothes had his Ruger .44mag carbine slung over his shoulder and was reaching for the door knob, I asked "what's the hurry", he smiled and out he went.
    It only took me a few minutes to get my head clear from waking up, then it struck me, I remembered that the field right across the road from our camp was owned by a farmer who raised show mules, I jumped off the top bunk which was my bed for this trip and ran across the kitchen toward the door my dad had just gone out of a few minutes before.
    I just started to reach for the door knob when I heard the unmistakable bark of his carbine, when I opened the door I saw dad standing by the farmers fence, it was still not quite full light, but I could see dad point to the bottom of the fence and shouting, not bad hey, five minutes after shooting time and I have my deer already.
    My heart sank as I thought of the dollar value that the farmer was going pin on that dead yearling mule, I went back in the cabin without saying a word, got dressed and went out to observe the mess I just knew we were in now.
    When I got to dad he handed me his hunting knife and asked me to do the honors as he was still shaking from the excitement of having just bagged his deer, as I bent to take my first real look at the animal two things jumped out at me, one, the animal was on the outside of the wire fence, and two, it had antlers, six points to be more specific.
    I don't think I have ever been so happy to see a dead deer before in my life, it just goes to show just how easy it is to jump to conclusions when you don't have all the facts.
     
    2jka, blind & lost, weltondl and 9 others like this.
  50. Wasp

    Wasp Hobbyist Hobbyist Supporter

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2014
    Messages:
    3,883
    Likes Received:
    13,889
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Again, she didn't shoot another hunter, cow, or car, it wasn't reckless as an elk looks very similar to a deer at a distance. She made a kill shot. Not some random shoot at an unknown target.
    Then they didn't try to cover it up or pretend it didn't happen, they reported it to the proper authorities.
     
    2jka, weltondl, Broke and 6 others like this.

Share This Page