The Nansen stove A DIY Clone?

Discussion in 'Cooking & Water Purification' started by Moondog55, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Moondog55

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    http://www.spiritofmawson.com/objects/nansen-stove-antarctica/
    The idea being to minimise heat loss/maximise efficiency.
    Just wondering if anybody here has ever tried to emulate/copy one or know of anybody who has ?
    I know there are a couple of people who make similar items but too small for our needs on our forthcoming trip.
    Melting snow for 3 to 4 people using the MSR XGK-EX and cooking for the same 4 people so maximising fuel efficiency is imperative to save weight on the sleds.
    Also any ideas along these lines.
    It needs to be very stable to avoid accidental spills. I already have an MSR Large Alpine cookset which is big enough to cook for 4 persons but the snow melting capacity is too low. Obviously for a deep winter trip above / past the tree line we will be using strategies to minimise fuel waste such as well insulated pot cosies and good quality Thermos flasks for slow cooking of breakfast oats/ evening beans etc
    Four people working hard in cold weather are going to need 12 litres of water a day to cook food and maintain hydration so every small saving in stove fuel soon adds up. My beloved wife suggested using her large ring-cake pan as the snow melter, which would be perfect if it was deeper and wider but I know of no such cake tin
     
  2. MrFixIt

    MrFixIt Old Jarhead Supporter Bushcraft Friend

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  3. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Our ANARE teams in Antarctica used a choofer box that was simply an insulated box that looked to be based on old fashioned kerosene tins, very clunky technology and not really efficient but better than having the stove in the open.
    A mate and his offsider attempted a winter traverse of the Brooks Range a few years ago and tried to counter the extreme low temperatures with brute force by using twin MSR stoves, they used a lot of fuel, too much in fact and were so weighed down by gear that they didn't finish, got frostbitten and had to be evacuated out; not something I want to emulate.
    140 years on the original Nansen stove is still a very high-tech bit of equipment, the Primus stove slightly less so but still in use all over the world
     
  4. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    I am waiting on a copy of Monty Alfords book at the moment but in it he has a picture of his winter pot .
    https://books.google.com.au/books/a...p_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

    His pot has a full depth skirt held off the pot with a surround so it works like a jacket boiler, MSR have a new large pot out now that is an added extra for the Windburner system stove but I'm wondering if it will also work with the MSR XGK-EX that we plan to take
     
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  5. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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  6. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    Wow .Thats pretty cool . I dont know much about exploring expedition gear .

    I wonder if one could make a one with a Bundt pan a Coleman Cup and a custom lid .
     
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  7. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  8. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    1. Remove the steam basket from top section.
    2.Place top section on ground. It will act as windscreen and pot support.
    3. Weld stainless steel tub onto center section to extend to within 2" of new top cooking pot (original bottom section that was to be used for steam producing water)
    4. Place stove into new bottom section. Add some holes to bottom section to allow proper burning of fuel.
    5. Place snow in center section.

    If I had some extra cash, I'd make one just for the fun-of-it :)
     
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  9. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Looks interesting but while it may be efficient at melting snow I don't see how it could do both jobs at once, melting snow and cooking all at the same time.
     
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  10. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    A Bundt pan or Angel cake pan was my first thought but they are too small in the centre pillar to work with my big pots and we will be cooking for 4 persons
     
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  11. Paulyseggs

    Paulyseggs Supporter Supporter

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    @Moondog55
    Cotton candy drum ? Might be known as candy floss?

    Looked at pics. Center is too shallow.

    Shouldn't be too hard to have a shop fab something up . Bending sheetmetal then braise the ends together. Im thinkin two circles then the bottom attached

    Or make a jig and press it to shape .
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  12. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    The bottom pan becomes the cooking pan when it is placed on top.

    Take your time, look at it again.

    Maybe someone else can explain it better.
     
  13. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    OK
    At the moment I use the MSR Alpine cook set, I reverse the lid over the larger or lower pot and melt snow using the waste heat in the top pot but that is inefficient as so much heat gets away around the sides and edges. What I know I need to do is channel that wasted heat back around the outside of the snow melting pot
    Zelph I see what you mean but I'm not sure that it will perform as well as a dedicated annular pot system
    I have been told about an old Olicamp storm cooker that used a full skirt to channel the heat around the side of the pot
    https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Vintage-Oli...223045?hash=item362e316505:g:9NsAAOSwFHZar8R6
    In the Nansen stove that skirt is replaced with the snow melting pot and a full depth windscreen with lid fits over everything.
    Yes Paulyseggs I may be able to make something once I decide on which pot to use as the group cooking pot. While MSR say that the new HX Stock pot is only for use with the new Windburner stove I see no reason why it could not be used with the XGK-EX that I intend to use on this trip although I am still waiting on a reply to my inquiry about this
     
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  14. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    I did a lot of research today and found exactly what you are looking for.

    You would have to purchase a pot support from the Kelly Kettle people that looks like this:

    Akettle pot support.JPG

    The stove can melt 4 litres of water while cooking a meal.

    Pot support is available here:
    https://www.kellykettleusa.com/pot-support-replacement

    I'll be back with more info.

    EDIT TO SAY: I had not considered the fact that you are located in Austrailia so I have to get a different source for you.......cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  15. Spork

    Spork Supporter Supporter

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  16. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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  17. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    And get a couple of these to soak your beans and oatmeal overnight. Double walled one gallon size.

     
  18. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Unfortunately Amazon do not take Australian orders but I am going to get a mate in Connecticut to buy me one of those. Far from being the first of its kind but it is the biggest I have seen
     
  19. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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  20. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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  21. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    I have one of these that boils 1 gallon water. It is what sent me on a search for your efficient means of cooking and melting snow.

     
  22. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    We used to have those here, called Volcano boilers for obvious reasons and that was the brand name also, often found in old country pub kitchens. In enamel usually and in ruinous condition. That big StoveTec pot is going to be way too heavy I think, even for a sled trip but there must be a market for some enterprising machine shop to pick up and run with a new iteration in a decent size and in Titanium
    GSI have a decent sized big pot that should work with a skirt if I can figure a way to make it happen
    http://www.gsioutdoors.com/explore/halulite/halulite-4-7-l-pot.html
    250mm/ 10 inches is the biggest pot MSR advise using on the XGK
     
  23. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Ok, use the GSI pot on top of this Turkish water boiler. The boiler is available on ebay, maybe on Aussiebay also.

    Try your best to engineer how to work it out. Place the pot on top of the boiler's exhaust chimney.

    That's all I have for you. Good luck on your search....cheers!

     
  24. Moondog55

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    Thanx zelph, I really like the Turkish samovar too
    If only there was firewood on Denali and in the Brooks in winter
     
  25. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Your XGK-EX stove goes where you see them placing the twigs.

    That's all I have for you my friend...cheers!

     
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  26. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    That pot weighs 4 pounds which isn't too bad weighed against the saving in fuel, I thought the seller said 4 kilos because I asked them how many kilos it weighed and they replied 3.4
    I won't be getting it posted to Australia tho, I just got quoted $97- USD for postage
     
  27. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    I purchased the Super Pot directly from Stovetec today. I'll use it in conjunction with my super Kettle :)

    Have you made a decision on what you'll use for your upcoming adventure?
     
  28. Moondog55

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    It's in 2020 so I have some time to finalise things. I have bought a few different pots to try out over this winter and still consulting with others on possible modifications etc:
    Buying one of those Superpots is still a possibility when I arrive over tho
     
  29. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    2020???? :dblthumb: You got plenty of time to build one at home. A good DIY project. Get some .008 Titanium from Ti Goat.
     
  30. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Yes A bucket list trip for my 70th birthday
     
  31. alannguyen

    alannguyen Scout

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  32. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Those milk boiling pots are unknown here but I agree that if I could find one that would work. Thanx for posting the link
     
  33. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Have you given up on the Nansen Stove design of cooking and melting snow with one unit?
     
  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Guide

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    Not at all, just another technique to cope
     
  35. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    I ordered it on the 5th and it arrived this morning. I'll proceed to modify my Mega Kettle a little for the pot to sit securely onto. Fun project!

    Pot with lid weighs 3 lb, 14 oz. I weighed it on my postal scale. Lid nest inside the pot upside down ;-)
     
  36. Moondog55

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    How rugged is it zelph? GSI are not replying to my emails but I can see a market for an Ultra Lite version somewhat smaller.
    I just received Monty Alfords book via Booktopia and in it he describes two home made versions of a skirted pot; in one the pot is wider than a cooking pot set on a stove and the skirt is deep enough to fully enclose both pots; in the other the skirt comes down most of the way.
    In the book he describes them as home made using paint buckets for the outer shell, fortuitously having inners on hand that were a tight press fit into the paint tin and only needing escape holes to allow combustion gases to escape and some rivets.
    He also describes a "Survival" type candle stove along similar lines made from mating food tins replicating one type of well known Hobo stove but much smaller; he calls it his "Yu-Can" stove.
    Personally having had to use a 300ml tin can for melting snow once I think anything smaller than a litre is too small but doing so did keep me occupied all nite which wasn't a bad thing in the circumstances
     
  37. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  38. Moondog55

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    The Yu-Can isn't much different to my own hobo windscreens for twig fires, which work well enough and a titanium cup as the inner would really reduce the weight
    Still working things through but sharing cooking; especially snow melting; is more efficient in terms of fuel used; but we could divide the work and cook as alternate pairs
    I just bought one of the GSI big aluminium pots to test out tho, it being as wide as MSR say you can use on the XGK as this winters group is over a dozen people and I'm doing the Dahl / Baht part of the curry dinner this year.
    http://www.gsioutdoors.com/shop/camp-cookware/pots-pans/halulite-4-7-l-pot.html
    Is the use of alcohol as musher cooker fuel because it is relatively safe to leave while you attend to the other work around dogs and camp?
    At a minimum we can simply use a large LW drum as a windscreen around the burner and pot as LW Stainless stockpots are everywhere and always cheap enough, locally $14- for the 7 litre size/ $22- for the 12 litre and this was my first thought. It is just that it then divides the cooking and snow melting into separate operations and uses more fuel; even when using a shelf above the cooking pot on which to sit the snow melter
     
  39. zelph

    zelph Supporter Supporter

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    Yes, it's safe to use as you described.

    Ok, get yourself an appropriate size stock pot of your choice and then get an appropriate length of stainless steel stove pipe from your local supplier of wood burning stoves. Cut a hole in the bottom of the stock pot and insert the stove pipe and fasten with sheet metal working skills. Use food grade silicone caulk to seal pipe to pot.

    This stove pipe is 10 inches in diameter and ask your local supplier for shorter lengths:

    https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...e-class-a-vent/10110367bb/p-1497334865240.htm
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018

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