The Perfect pack : poll

Discussion in 'Blue Granite Bushcraft' started by hicountry, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. hicountry

    hicountry Blue Granite Bushcraft Vendor

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    For me 2018 will be the year of creativity, at least in theory.

    In between small leather jobs for the forum,
    I'll be finishing up several euro-rucksack upgrades that I'll be posting soon.
    These are speculation projects.

    I've modded and taken apart lots of packs from Alice's to euro-rucksacks,
    and I'm wanting to create a pack now.

    Questions :
    1 - nylon vs. canvas
    I have nylon packcloth, cordura, micro ripstop, oilcloth, linen canvas and cotton canvas.
    What is the general preference ?

    2 - external frame or not ? even a light set of stays in a small pack helps with support.

    3 - color : camo or plain green or earth tone.
    Not really wanting loud colors.

    4 - size : day use only, weekend overnight or multiple day outing ?

    5 - it will be top loading. I don't work with zippers or velcro.

    Thanks for your input.
     
  2. jeremyctry

    jeremyctry Outdoorsman Supporter Bushclass I

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    I would love to see a internal frame frost river/Duluth bushcrafters inspired pack possibly offered in both waxed canvas and cordura. With appropriate buckles and straps of course in the 35 liter range. Small enough to be a day pack, but large enough for 2 possibly 3 days depending on the individual. Solid earth tones... yeah take my money.
     
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  3. NotThatMatt

    NotThatMatt Quiet Observer Supporter

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    To understand "perfect" we have to understand the whys behind it. Everyone will have their own opinion. I choose packs for many reasons, and a perfect pack would have to satisfy all of them. Heaven knows I've been in search of ~that~ pack for the better part of my life.

    The first part of perfect is timelessness. Nylon (to me) is a non-starter for timelessness. Waxed canvas, especially linen with leather, just says "I could have been your grandfather's ruck, your ruck, your son or daughter's ruck; and perhaps I will be all of these." Nylon is where style goes to die, and screams single generation (or less).

    With so much style now baked into our perfect ruck, I'm now going to use this thing not only for bushcraft, I'm going to lug this thing everywhere I go. Work, pleasure, day trip, weekend, perhaps a month-long trek around Europe. It needs to expand. This is where my Frost River Isle Royale Jr. excels. I can smash it down to a document holder, or expand it up to a trashcan. Love that aspect of it. Hint: laced side panels/bottom; pleated, flat pockets.

    While supports are great for load distribution and stabilization, they get in the way of expansion and crushability. Think "all items must fit under the seat in front of you" kind of smashing. So in a perfect pack the stays or frame (internal or external) need to be removable.

    Other "perfect" aspects:
    Lashing points; got to have modularity.
    Quick-access points, whether that be pockets or "reach insides" to the main compartment, need to get at frequently used items quickly; especially water.
    Removable shoulder straps/hip belt; I love the Swiss packs for the ability to remove the shoulder straps, and I love your removable hip belt mods.

    I'm thinking of a hybrid Swiss-army-meets-Frost-River-detailed-by-Robert amalgamation.

    My PayPal account humbly awaits your response.
     
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  4. GKiT

    GKiT Supporter Supporter

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    It’s a very personal choice. I’ve tried a lot of different types and for me, it’s a good quality pack basket. I find them comfortable probably because I have carried one more than anything else and I am used to the way it carries. I can see inside it easily and get things in and out easily. There are no pockets, zippers, snaps or pouches to deal with, just a basket, a canvas cover and a harness. I like the simplicity of it. Having said that, I’m not a backpacker. A pack basket suits what I do for the most part. I have smaller day type rucksacks but they don’t really serve the same purpose.
     
  5. ezra45

    ezra45 Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Cordura
    Great suspension, belt and shoulder straps
    Top Load
    Water bottle pouches that also fit GI canteens
    3 day capacity with ability to cinch down smaller or add a sleeping bag on top or bottom
    Ability to add pouches

    Good luck!

    ezra
     
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  6. NevadaBlue

    NevadaBlue Graybeard Supporter Bushcraft Friend Bushclass I

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    The perfect pack is one in which someone else is carrying all your gear.
     
  7. LJHfrstr

    LJHfrstr Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    First let me start off by saying I'm 110% on board with you making "The Perfect Pack." I think you guys could do an awesome job with your knowledge and experience.

    I agree with most of what @NotThatMatt said in his post above. I'll provide my thoughts below, which correspond to the questions you asked above:

    1. I prefer the idea of canvas or cordura over nylon. They seem to age better than nylon does. When I see a nylon bag that has 20 or more years of age it tends to look beat up and "cheap." When I see a much older canvas bag (that's been treated as it should) it looks like it has simply aged gracefully. Like NotThatMatt said above, something like canvas is timeless.

    2. I'm not a big fan of an external frame pack unless I'm packing for 2 (which I often do with 4 little kids around) on a weekend trip or alone on a longer hiking trip. Assuming you won't be using a stiff mesh back panel like the LL Bean and Hidden Woodsman rucks, I like the idea of stays in order to increase the comfort of the pack. A pack without support gets floppy and quickly uncomfortable on a prolonged hike - I also find you have to load a floppy pack just right in order to make it comfortable enough for a longer hike.

    3. Personally I think the camo is more of a niche market. I know there are a lot of camo fans out there, but I get the sense that there are plenty out there like myself who prefer earthy tones over camo. The camo guys will go both ways, preferring camo but still being good with the folksy tones, but the guys who do not like camo will not go both ways as much. Only reason I have a camo bag is because it's the carrier that came with the Keith HC Canteen kit. I think you'll have wider interest in sticking with the green/earthy tones.

    4. Size. This is probably the most important factor for me. I'd like something that can be used for a full day hike, but also have the ability to be used as an overnight or 2 night pack. 25-30L range of the main pack with a couple of side pockets sounds ideal...slightly smaller than the Swiss Ruck. A couple leather lash tabs on the bottom and possibly one on the front or sides adds a lot to the versatility of a pack...I prefer the look and function of these over molle webbing. I actually plan on adding a couple of lash tabs to the sides of the Swiss Ruck I got from your shop.

    5. Top-loading. No zippers or velcro. Agreed and on board.


    I'll be watching this thread and looking forward to how this idea evolves!
     
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  8. Harper

    Harper Guide

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    ...

    FRIR JR + Frame!


    With respect to your specicic questions:

    1. I've been leaning more towards waxed canvas.

    2. I prefer the pack to be able to both accomodate an external frame and be removed. The Savotta/Swedish frames which can accomodate a hip belt if desired would be interesting. It also allows for a place to attach axes, saws, etc.

    3. I prefer earth tones.

    4. I think an expandable weekend pack is the desireable size.

    5. Good.

    Also, a slideable sternum strap.
     
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  9. MrKnobbie

    MrKnobbie Scout Bushclass I

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    Remember that a pack itself weighs something so the lighter the better. For me: cordura, internal frame , a large day pack with compression straps that could be used overnight with right outdoorsman, earth tone (maybe contrasting colors?) . Good luck, sounds interesting.
     
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  10. Luzster

    Luzster Of course your opinion matters, just not to me... Supporter

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    1. Nylon - Lighter, just as rugged, easier to maintain, lighter.

    2. External - Can be removed when going light, doesn't take away space in the main pack.

    3. Tan/coyote - because I really like it!! :4:

    4. Size -Tough one. Maybe all three? To me, best size is the weekend one with ALICE/MOLLE capability. Also, with an external frame, you have space to attach your stuff to turn it into a multiday pack.

    5. Top loading is fine. Needs external pockets for loading frequently accessed items, FAK, FSK without having to take everything out of your main compartment.

    Hmmm... my answers pretty much describe a med/lg ALICE ruck don't they??? Wonder why.... :33:
     
  11. Virgil Grey

    Virgil Grey Supporter Supporter

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    1. Canvas
    2. External
    3. Olive drab and variant greens, or brown
    4. Weekend

    Hazaa for Blue Granite Bushcraft in 2018!
     
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  12. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Becker Patrol Pack that is sized up to use Kifaru (or similar)stays!

    330d or 500d Cordura

    Stays. Carbon fiber, aluminum etc

    I like multi cam, woodland, OD and coyote brown

    I’ve successfully done weekends(2 night) in theBPP, so one sizes up to use a 21-22” stay would be weekend sized +

    I will loan you mine to study AND buy AT LEAST one of them when they’re done.
     
  13. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom I'm not lost, I've just misplaced myself. Supporter Bushclass I

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    My Mystery Ranch 3DAP is pretty much my idea of perfect. I like earth tones but I'm not anti-camo either.

    Large enough for a multiple day trip when packed appropriately but small enough to be used as a daypack. Compression straps are important and I added a beaver tail to mine as well. The same basic design would work well as a top loader only.
     
  14. hicountry

    hicountry Blue Granite Bushcraft Vendor

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    I do have both sizes Becker Patrols, I put a DEI "U" frame on the large size.It's heavy built but also pretty heavy, 10lbs. empty I think.
     
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  15. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    Yessir. I had a large at one point and got rid of it pretty quickly for that reason, the regular size is amazing. It would perfect for me if it were about 2-3” taller and was set up like a Kifaru pack with a waist belt and stays that can be added or removed based on your current use.

    Make it with single layer 330 or 500d Cordura and it will reduce a ton of the weight and still be plenty durable.
     
  16. Back Off

    Back Off Scout

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    For me a pack that can serve multiple purposes as I cant afford to keep buying packs. I ended up with a Eberlestock Blue Widow. First - capable of hauling heavy game meat long distances. Second - Can be tightened up for a day pack. Can hold plenty of gear and weapon for long trips. It also has room for 2 bladders and a fanny pack for an ultralight day pack. Adjustable spine length and built tough. There are better packs out there but not many at this price point. If I could afford Kifaru I would get it. Now in honesty bushcrafting is more of a something I do when not hunting or fishing. If I did not hunt and need to pack out heavy loads, I may choose other options but man, I do like internal frame packs.
     
  17. hicountry

    hicountry Blue Granite Bushcraft Vendor

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    Just a heads up :
    I still have the two Kifaru ZULU's available, they're both OD green.
    1 is Gen. 1 and the other is Gen. 2
    They should be somewhere on the vendor threads.
    Each comes with a complete matching set of add-on pouches.

    The Zulu is like a bigger version of the standard Becker Patrol,
    bigger in all the right directions, mostly vertically.
    The Large Becker is pretty boxy and more like a Large Alice.
     
  18. Gruntinhusaybah

    Gruntinhusaybah Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I appreciate the heads up, but I prefer the OG BPP with the integrated pockets.
     
  19. LJHfrstr

    LJHfrstr Supporter Supporter Bushclass I

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    I like these ideas. A modern feel with a classic flare would be awesome.
     
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  20. sidmand

    sidmand Bacon is food duct tape Supporter

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    1 - nylon vs. canvas
    CANVAS, All the way. Waxed even better

    2 - external frame or not ? even a light set of stays in a small pack helps with support.
    I like external frames myself, gives something to strap gear to and can also be used as a load bearing apparatus if need be. And, it gives something to attach a hip belt/pad to, which I find to be a very good thing (for me)

    3 - color : camo or plain green or earth tone.
    earth tones and/or drab green. If I'm using it for hunting, I tend to sort of stash my pack somewhere anyways and go stalking.

    4 - size : day use only, weekend overnight or multiple day outing ?
    weekend/overnight for me. 95% of the time, as stated, my pack is for hunting. I do like the option of carrying enough stuff for a spike camp somewhere, or stuff to get me through a night if I get in a tough spot.

    5 - it will be top loading. I don't work with zippers or velcro.
    perfect. ​

    Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. If you could make something like the haversack/quiver thing I made some time back that didn't look like someone made it with their feet, I'd be all over that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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